F7 brake function settings


Joó Ferenc
 

Hello Al,

Using Titan decoders, where can I set the braking force applied by F7? I set decelaration (CV4) to a high value to give me a realistic coasting effect, but pressing F7 won't stop the loco very quickly, the action is almost unnoticable. I would like my loco to stop a little quicker. I browsed the option in Quantum CV manager and can't seem to find a setting for this. Thanks!

Üdvözlettel,
Best regards,
MfG,

Joó Ferenc
GSM:   +36204141621

NOHAB Apartman

Hollófészek Vendégház

Kikötő Vendégház

Badacsonytördemic
Debreczenyi u. 9.


EdSauers
 

Joó Fer

Other decoder increase that percentage of brake applied for each press of the F7 button.

Ed Sauers

On 2/15/2022 2:22 PM, Joó Fer enc wrote:
Hello Al,

Using Titan decoders, where can I set the braking force applied by F7? I
set decelaration (CV4) to a high value to give me a realistic coasting
effect, but pressing F7 won't stop the loco very quickly, the action is
almost unnoticable. I would like my loco to stop a little quicker. I
browsed the option in Quantum CV manager and can't seem to find a setting
for this. Thanks!

Üdvözlettel,
Best regards,
MfG,

*Joó Ferenc*
GSM: +36204141621

*NOHAB Apartman*
Web: http://nohabapartman.hu

*Hollófészek Vendégház*
Web: http://hollofeszek.hu

*Kikötő Vendégház*
Web: http://kikotovendeghaz.hu

*Badacsonytördemic*
Debreczenyi u. 9.





Joó Ferenc
 

Are you implying like TCS? I would like to know about the Titan boards. Thanks.

Üdvözlettel,
Best regards,
MfG,

Joó Ferenc
GSM:   +36204141621

NOHAB Apartman

Hollófészek Vendégház

Kikötő Vendégház

Badacsonytördemic
Debreczenyi u. 9.


EdSauers <Dockside98@...> ezt írta (időpont: 2022. febr. 15., K, 20:44):

Joó Fer

Other decoder increase that percentage of brake applied for each press
of the F7 button.

Ed Sauers



On 2/15/2022 2:22 PM, Joó Fer enc wrote:
> Hello Al,
>
> Using Titan decoders, where can I set the braking force applied by F7? I
> set decelaration (CV4) to a high value to give me a realistic coasting
> effect, but pressing F7 won't stop the loco very quickly, the action is
> almost unnoticable. I would like my loco to stop a little quicker. I
> browsed the option in Quantum CV manager and can't seem to find a setting
> for this. Thanks!
>
> Üdvözlettel,
> Best regards,
> MfG,
>
> *Joó Ferenc*
> GSM:   +36204141621
>
> *NOHAB Apartman*
> Web:   http://nohabapartman.hu
>
> *Hollófészek Vendégház*
> Web: http://hollofeszek.hu
>
> *Kikötő Vendégház*
> Web: http://kikotovendeghaz.hu
>
> *Badacsonytördemic*
> Debreczenyi u. 9.
>
>
>
>
>
>






Kevin Strong
 

Based on how my two Titan-equipped locomotives operate, braking force is proportional to how long you have F7 engaged. It is akin to a prototypical brake stand. Pressing/releasing the F7 button puts the brake lever into “apply.” Pressing/releasing the F7 button again then puts the brake lever into “lap” which holds whatever pressure is in the line. Pressing/releasing the F7 button again applies more pressure to the brake line, pressing/releasing after that puts it back into “lap.” Moving the throttle from 0 to any number releases the brakes. Note: the airbrake application will *only* take effect if the throttle is set to 0. If the throttle is set to any non-zero value, then pressing F7 only makes different sounds. It will not affect the deceleration rate.

For example, once I set the throttle to 0, If I press/release F7 to engage the brake, I hear the sound of the brake application and the locomotive starts to slow down. When I press/release F7 again, the brake application sound stops, and the rate of deceleration at the point where I stopped the application of the brakes is the new deceleration rate. If it’s just a few moments between presses, it’s only a light application of brake pressure. If I let it go for a few seconds between presses, it’s a heavier application. If I just press F7 and don’t press it again, that’s like putting maximum brake pressure on the line, and will be the fastest deceleration available.

I do not know if you can program that maximum rate of deceleration. The manual says deceleration is set by CV4 and CV24, and applying the brakes temporarily increases that value. How much and if you can change it? I can’t find that anywhere in the documentation. It *may* be tied to the value of CV4, so the higher the value for that, the longer it takes even under the maximum airbrake adjustment. If you’re not stopping quickly enough even just laying on the brake by pressing and releasing F7 once, then try backing the value for CV4 down a bit and see if that makes a difference. I set my values for CV4 to maximum, and find that leaning on the brake does stop me more-or-less sufficiently quickly. 

Hope that helps a bit.

Later,

K



On Feb 15, 2022, at 12:22 PM, Joó Ferenc <ferencj@...> wrote:

Hello Al,

Using Titan decoders, where can I set the braking force applied by F7? I set decelaration (CV4) to a high value to give me a realistic coasting effect, but pressing F7 won't stop the loco very quickly, the action is almost unnoticable. I would like my loco to stop a little quicker. I browsed the option in Quantum CV manager and can't seem to find a setting for this. Thanks!

Üdvözlettel,
Best regards,
MfG,

Joó Ferenc
GSM:   +36204141621

NOHAB Apartman

Hollófészek Vendégház

Kikötő Vendégház

Badacsonytördemic
Debreczenyi u. 9.


Joó Ferenc
 

Thanks Kevin - I understand now.

I only don't understand CV24. How would this be used? Can a button be programmed to add CV24 to CV4? Like when using F11 and F12 with Tsunami to select loco brake/train brake? The manual says this is mostly used to simulate train length / load while working in consists. So would you need to programme CV24 to each loco before you build a consist? Don't get it.

Üdvözlettel,
Best regards,
MfG,

Joó Ferenc
GSM:   +36204141621

NOHAB Apartman

Hollófészek Vendégház

Kikötő Vendégház

Badacsonytördemic
Debreczenyi u. 9.


Kevin Strong <kcstrong@...> ezt írta (időpont: 2022. febr. 15., K, 21:23):

Based on how my two Titan-equipped locomotives operate, braking force is proportional to how long you have F7 engaged. It is akin to a prototypical brake stand. Pressing/releasing the F7 button puts the brake lever into “apply.” Pressing/releasing the F7 button again then puts the brake lever into “lap” which holds whatever pressure is in the line. Pressing/releasing the F7 button again applies more pressure to the brake line, pressing/releasing after that puts it back into “lap.” Moving the throttle from 0 to any number releases the brakes. Note: the airbrake application will *only* take effect if the throttle is set to 0. If the throttle is set to any non-zero value, then pressing F7 only makes different sounds. It will not affect the deceleration rate.

For example, once I set the throttle to 0, If I press/release F7 to engage the brake, I hear the sound of the brake application and the locomotive starts to slow down. When I press/release F7 again, the brake application sound stops, and the rate of deceleration at the point where I stopped the application of the brakes is the new deceleration rate. If it’s just a few moments between presses, it’s only a light application of brake pressure. If I let it go for a few seconds between presses, it’s a heavier application. If I just press F7 and don’t press it again, that’s like putting maximum brake pressure on the line, and will be the fastest deceleration available.

I do not know if you can program that maximum rate of deceleration. The manual says deceleration is set by CV4 and CV24, and applying the brakes temporarily increases that value. How much and if you can change it? I can’t find that anywhere in the documentation. It *may* be tied to the value of CV4, so the higher the value for that, the longer it takes even under the maximum airbrake adjustment. If you’re not stopping quickly enough even just laying on the brake by pressing and releasing F7 once, then try backing the value for CV4 down a bit and see if that makes a difference. I set my values for CV4 to maximum, and find that leaning on the brake does stop me more-or-less sufficiently quickly. 

Hope that helps a bit.

Later,

K



On Feb 15, 2022, at 12:22 PM, Joó Ferenc <ferencj@...> wrote:

Hello Al,

Using Titan decoders, where can I set the braking force applied by F7? I set decelaration (CV4) to a high value to give me a realistic coasting effect, but pressing F7 won't stop the loco very quickly, the action is almost unnoticable. I would like my loco to stop a little quicker. I browsed the option in Quantum CV manager and can't seem to find a setting for this. Thanks!

Üdvözlettel,
Best regards,
MfG,

Joó Ferenc
GSM:   +36204141621

NOHAB Apartman

Hollófészek Vendégház

Kikötő Vendégház

Badacsonytördemic
Debreczenyi u. 9.


Kevin Strong
 

That’s kind-of my guess on how CV23 and 24 work—that you would program them as an adjustment to the rate set in CVs 3 and 4 based on the length of your train. But that would mean programming these CVs every time you change your train length? Or is it engaged only if you’re in a consist? I never bothered with programming them, and I rarely consist my engines, so I’m not sure.

Later,

K

On Feb 15, 2022, at 1:50 PM, Joó Ferenc <ferencj@...> wrote:

Thanks Kevin - I understand now.

I only don't understand CV24. How would this be used? Can a button be programmed to add CV24 to CV4? Like when using F11 and F12 with Tsunami to select loco brake/train brake? The manual says this is mostly used to simulate train length / load while working in consists. So would you need to programme CV24 to each loco before you build a consist? Don't get it.

Üdvözlettel,
Best regards,
MfG,

Joó Ferenc
GSM:   +36204141621

NOHAB Apartman

Hollófészek Vendégház

Kikötő Vendégház

Badacsonytördemic
Debreczenyi u. 9.


Kevin Strong <kcstrong@...> ezt írta (időpont: 2022. febr. 15., K, 21:23):
Based on how my two Titan-equipped locomotives operate, braking force is proportional to how long you have F7 engaged. It is akin to a prototypical brake stand. Pressing/releasing the F7 button puts the brake lever into “apply.” Pressing/releasing the F7 button again then puts the brake lever into “lap” which holds whatever pressure is in the line. Pressing/releasing the F7 button again applies more pressure to the brake line, pressing/releasing after that puts it back into “lap.” Moving the throttle from 0 to any number releases the brakes. Note: the airbrake application will *only* take effect if the throttle is set to 0. If the throttle is set to any non-zero value, then pressing F7 only makes different sounds. It will not affect the deceleration rate.

For example, once I set the throttle to 0, If I press/release F7 to engage the brake, I hear the sound of the brake application and the locomotive starts to slow down. When I press/release F7 again, the brake application sound stops, and the rate of deceleration at the point where I stopped the application of the brakes is the new deceleration rate. If it’s just a few moments between presses, it’s only a light application of brake pressure. If I let it go for a few seconds between presses, it’s a heavier application. If I just press F7 and don’t press it again, that’s like putting maximum brake pressure on the line, and will be the fastest deceleration available.

I do not know if you can program that maximum rate of deceleration. The manual says deceleration is set by CV4 and CV24, and applying the brakes temporarily increases that value. How much and if you can change it? I can’t find that anywhere in the documentation. It *may* be tied to the value of CV4, so the higher the value for that, the longer it takes even under the maximum airbrake adjustment. If you’re not stopping quickly enough even just laying on the brake by pressing and releasing F7 once, then try backing the value for CV4 down a bit and see if that makes a difference. I set my values for CV4 to maximum, and find that leaning on the brake does stop me more-or-less sufficiently quickly. 

Hope that helps a bit.

Later,

K



On Feb 15, 2022, at 12:22 PM, Joó Ferenc <ferencj@...> wrote:

Hello Al,

Using Titan decoders, where can I set the braking force applied by F7? I set decelaration (CV4) to a high value to give me a realistic coasting effect, but pressing F7 won't stop the loco very quickly, the action is almost unnoticable. I would like my loco to stop a little quicker. I browsed the option in Quantum CV manager and can't seem to find a setting for this. Thanks!

Üdvözlettel,
Best regards,
MfG,

Joó Ferenc
GSM:   +36204141621

NOHAB Apartman

Hollófészek Vendégház

Kikötő Vendégház

Badacsonytördemic
Debreczenyi u. 9.





Greg Elmassian
 

On the braking function, page 26 of the manual:
1.13 Air Brakes (F7 in Forward or Reverse)
If you have selected any non-zero deceleration inertia value in CV 4 and/or CV 24, the F7 key can be used to apply Air Brakes to stop the locomotive more quickly than it would normally stop from the inertia settings18. To use Air Brakes:
 Turn the throttle down to speed step 0 on a moving locomotive; this enables the F7 key to act as a brake.
 Press the F7 key. Hear a brief brake squeal sound and air being released from the brake lines continually. The longer the air is released the greater the braking action.
 Press the F7 key again to stop the air release. The train will continue to slow at the last braking value.
Note: F7 will apply brakes when set to1 and stop the air release when set to 0. Depending on the initial setting for F7 when you turn your throttle down to speed step zero, you may need to press the F7 key twice to first apply brakes.
 If you want to apply more braking, press the F7 key again to release more air. When you reach the desired amount of braking, press F7 again to stop the air release.
 Turn up the throttle to any value above 0 to release the brakes; this action resets the locomotive’s deceleration to a value determined by the sum of CV 4 and CV 24.
 If the locomotive is in Neutral when the F7 key is pressed, the Cylinder Cocks will arm.19
Note: If the throttle is set to any speed step except 0, Air Brakes are not enabled; instead the F7 key will now manually activate Squealing Brake/Flange sounds but will not affect the locomotive’s deceleration.
Note: If the direction state is changed while moving, F7 is enabled to act as a brake without the need to reduce the throttle to speed step 0. After stopping and changing direction, the loco will accelerate back to its original speed. If CV 4 or CV 24 is non-zero, F7 can be used to apply Air Brakes to stop a moving locomotive more quickly than it would normally stop from the inertia settings20.


CV23 & 24 are just "add on's" to 3 and 4, see pages 59 & 60. The idea is you have your momentum set for the loco, and then maybe if you have a lot heavier train, just set 23 and 24 and don't mess with the existing settings of 3 and 4.

Kevin's response is pretty much almost word for word from the manual.

Greg

On CV


Joó Ferenc
 

Thanks as always. I managed to open the manual from an old drive in the meantime. Funny that QSI hasn't used a higher number button to activate heavy load for braking.

Üdvözlettel / Best regards / MfG,

Joó Ferenc / Ferenc Joó
Badacsonytördemic, Hungary
GSM: +36 20 4141 621

NOHAB Apartman
http://nohabapartman.hu

Hollófészek Vendégház
http://hollofeszek.hu

Kikötő Vendégház
http://kikotovendeghaz.hu

Sent from Samsung Galaxy phone

Greg Elmassian <greg@...> ezt írta (időpont: 2022. febr. 15., Ke 22:48):

On the braking function, page 26 of the manual:
1.13 Air Brakes (F7 in Forward or Reverse)
If you have selected any non-zero deceleration inertia value in CV 4 and/or CV 24, the F7 key can be used to apply Air Brakes to stop the locomotive more quickly than it would normally stop from the inertia settings18. To use Air Brakes:
 Turn the throttle down to speed step 0 on a moving locomotive; this enables the F7 key to act as a brake.
 Press the F7 key. Hear a brief brake squeal sound and air being released from the brake lines continually. The longer the air is released the greater the braking action.
 Press the F7 key again to stop the air release. The train will continue to slow at the last braking value.
Note: F7 will apply brakes when set to1 and stop the air release when set to 0. Depending on the initial setting for F7 when you turn your throttle down to speed step zero, you may need to press the F7 key twice to first apply brakes.
 If you want to apply more braking, press the F7 key again to release more air. When you reach the desired amount of braking, press F7 again to stop the air release.
 Turn up the throttle to any value above 0 to release the brakes; this action resets the locomotive’s deceleration to a value determined by the sum of CV 4 and CV 24.
 If the locomotive is in Neutral when the F7 key is pressed, the Cylinder Cocks will arm.19
Note: If the throttle is set to any speed step except 0, Air Brakes are not enabled; instead the F7 key will now manually activate Squealing Brake/Flange sounds but will not affect the locomotive’s deceleration.
Note: If the direction state is changed while moving, F7 is enabled to act as a brake without the need to reduce the throttle to speed step 0. After stopping and changing direction, the loco will accelerate back to its original speed. If CV 4 or CV 24 is non-zero, F7 can be used to apply Air Brakes to stop a moving locomotive more quickly than it would normally stop from the inertia settings20.


CV23 & 24 are just "add on's" to 3 and 4, see pages 59 & 60. The idea is you have your momentum set for the loco, and then maybe if you have a lot heavier train, just set 23 and 24 and don't mess with the existing settings of 3 and 4.

Kevin's response is pretty much almost word for word from the manual.

Greg

On CV


Paul B/Indy
 

Please share what you found, Joó??

Paul B/Indy


On Feb 15, 2022, at 5:02 PM, Joó Ferenc <ferencj@...> wrote:

Thanks as always. I managed to open the manual from an old drive in the meantime. Funny that QSI hasn't used a higher number button to activate heavy load for braking.

Üdvözlettel / Best regards / MfG,

Joó Ferenc / Ferenc Joó
Badacsonytördemic, Hungary
GSM: +36 20 4141 621

NOHAB Apartman
http://nohabapartman.hu

Hollófészek Vendégház
http://hollofeszek.hu

Kikötő Vendégház
http://kikotovendeghaz.hu

Sent from Samsung Galaxy phone

Greg Elmassian <greg@...> ezt írta (időpont: 2022. febr. 15., Ke 22:48):
On the braking function, page 26 of the manual:
1.13 Air Brakes (F7 in Forward or Reverse)
If you have selected any non-zero deceleration inertia value in CV 4 and/or CV 24, the F7 key can be used to apply Air Brakes to stop the locomotive more quickly than it would normally stop from the inertia settings18. To use Air Brakes:
 Turn the throttle down to speed step 0 on a moving locomotive; this enables the F7 key to act as a brake.
 Press the F7 key. Hear a brief brake squeal sound and air being released from the brake lines continually. The longer the air is released the greater the braking action.
 Press the F7 key again to stop the air release. The train will continue to slow at the last braking value.
Note: F7 will apply brakes when set to1 and stop the air release when set to 0. Depending on the initial setting for F7 when you turn your throttle down to speed step zero, you may need to press the F7 key twice to first apply brakes.
 If you want to apply more braking, press the F7 key again to release more air. When you reach the desired amount of braking, press F7 again to stop the air release.
 Turn up the throttle to any value above 0 to release the brakes; this action resets the locomotive’s deceleration to a value determined by the sum of CV 4 and CV 24.
 If the locomotive is in Neutral when the F7 key is pressed, the Cylinder Cocks will arm.19
Note: If the throttle is set to any speed step except 0, Air Brakes are not enabled; instead the F7 key will now manually activate Squealing Brake/Flange sounds but will not affect the locomotive’s deceleration.
Note: If the direction state is changed while moving, F7 is enabled to act as a brake without the need to reduce the throttle to speed step 0. After stopping and changing direction, the loco will accelerate back to its original speed. If CV 4 or CV 24 is non-zero, F7 can be used to apply Air Brakes to stop a moving locomotive more quickly than it would normally stop from the inertia settings20.


CV23 & 24 are just "add on's" to 3 and 4, see pages 59 & 60. The idea is you have your momentum set for the loco, and then maybe if you have a lot heavier train, just set 23 and 24 and don't mess with the existing settings of 3 and 4.

Kevin's response is pretty much almost word for word from the manual.

Greg

On CV




Joó Ferenc
 

Nothing yet, can't test the loco while the family is asleep. Maybe tonight.

Üdvözlettel,
Best regards,
MfG,

Joó Ferenc
GSM:   +36204141621

NOHAB Apartman

Hollófészek Vendégház

Kikötő Vendégház

Badacsonytördemic
Debreczenyi u. 9.


Paul B/Indy <atsfpb@...> ezt írta (időpont: 2022. febr. 16., Sze, 1:00):

Please share what you found, Joó??

Paul B/Indy


On Feb 15, 2022, at 5:02 PM, Joó Ferenc <ferencj@...> wrote:

Thanks as always. I managed to open the manual from an old drive in the meantime. Funny that QSI hasn't used a higher number button to activate heavy load for braking.

Üdvözlettel / Best regards / MfG,

Joó Ferenc / Ferenc Joó
Badacsonytördemic, Hungary
GSM: +36 20 4141 621

NOHAB Apartman
http://nohabapartman.hu

Hollófészek Vendégház
http://hollofeszek.hu

Kikötő Vendégház
http://kikotovendeghaz.hu

Sent from Samsung Galaxy phone

Greg Elmassian <greg@...> ezt írta (időpont: 2022. febr. 15., Ke 22:48):
On the braking function, page 26 of the manual:
1.13 Air Brakes (F7 in Forward or Reverse)
If you have selected any non-zero deceleration inertia value in CV 4 and/or CV 24, the F7 key can be used to apply Air Brakes to stop the locomotive more quickly than it would normally stop from the inertia settings18. To use Air Brakes:
 Turn the throttle down to speed step 0 on a moving locomotive; this enables the F7 key to act as a brake.
 Press the F7 key. Hear a brief brake squeal sound and air being released from the brake lines continually. The longer the air is released the greater the braking action.
 Press the F7 key again to stop the air release. The train will continue to slow at the last braking value.
Note: F7 will apply brakes when set to1 and stop the air release when set to 0. Depending on the initial setting for F7 when you turn your throttle down to speed step zero, you may need to press the F7 key twice to first apply brakes.
 If you want to apply more braking, press the F7 key again to release more air. When you reach the desired amount of braking, press F7 again to stop the air release.
 Turn up the throttle to any value above 0 to release the brakes; this action resets the locomotive’s deceleration to a value determined by the sum of CV 4 and CV 24.
 If the locomotive is in Neutral when the F7 key is pressed, the Cylinder Cocks will arm.19
Note: If the throttle is set to any speed step except 0, Air Brakes are not enabled; instead the F7 key will now manually activate Squealing Brake/Flange sounds but will not affect the locomotive’s deceleration.
Note: If the direction state is changed while moving, F7 is enabled to act as a brake without the need to reduce the throttle to speed step 0. After stopping and changing direction, the loco will accelerate back to its original speed. If CV 4 or CV 24 is non-zero, F7 can be used to apply Air Brakes to stop a moving locomotive more quickly than it would normally stop from the inertia settings20.


CV23 & 24 are just "add on's" to 3 and 4, see pages 59 & 60. The idea is you have your momentum set for the loco, and then maybe if you have a lot heavier train, just set 23 and 24 and don't mess with the existing settings of 3 and 4.

Kevin's response is pretty much almost word for word from the manual.

Greg

On CV




kjlovesya
 

Hi Joó,

  Personally, I try to imitate the inertia of the full scale.  With this in mind, I have found the following settings to be realistic.

CV 23 = 40*   - Set and forget - Acceleration adjuster, simulates a 'light' (no train behind) locomotive.  * According to actual crews, some locos 'load up' much quicker than others.  For quick loading locos you can use a value of 30.  e.g. an ALCo RS-3 or an EMD GP-9 loads up faster than a GP38-2.

CV 24 = 127 - Set and forget - Deceleration adjuster, maximum CV 24 value (which is added automatically to CV 4)

CV 3 = X  - where X is number of freight cars x 5.  actual formula CV 3 = X(5).  Acceleration momentum - I use multiplier x 5 to get reasonable performance with a load behind a single locomotive.  (for Consist: Acceleration momentum value will be divided by number of locos in a consist.)    NCE throttles have a "Momentum" button that assigns an internal (adjustable in Command station) multiplier value 0 - 9.

CV 4 = X + 200 - where X is number of freight cars x 5.  actual formula: CV 4 = X(5) + 200. Deceleration momentum - if the total value is greater than 255 use CV 4 = 255.

Remember, as mentioned, the Speed Step must be 0 for the brake to work.  Also, remember the F7 is toggled but the throttle actually releases the brake.  The F7 (toggle) simulates the engineers hand on the brake lever.   The first F7 press starts the counterclockwise movement of the lever (simulating minimum brake application --> maximum brake application.  The second press of F7 stops the counterclockwise movement of the brake handle (rendering the brake application anywhere between minimum and maximum brake pressure depending on the time between consecutive presses of F7).  

RELEASE: The F7 must FIRST be reset (toggle twice) to allow it to function on the next brake application.  However, a throttle setting greater than Speed Step 0 is what actually releases the brake application.

It's a bit complicated, but well worth the trouble to understand, as it does simulate the actual variable train brake very nicely.  Using a realistic brake in operating sessions adds a whole new dimension of fun.

Have fun!

Best regards,
KJ