QSI Please include "Headlight Dimmers" in CVManager's Multiple lights


trenule
 

Sorry for briefly going on what may appear as a tangent.

This thread has offered an opportunity to emphasize that as the QSI Titan decoder is a perfect example of an abundance of functions/features "lights", "sounds", "motor control", "smoke", etc... it is important to emphasize, that a maximum "generality" and "abstraction" combined with maximum "flexibility" is the way to achieve the simplest and most effective way to configure, and to use/control a decoder and its functionality.

As Jan''s post is pointing out, DCC and DCC/sound decoders on one side, and DCC throttles on the other side, have reached a level of sophistication that leaves far behind the simple model of DCC infancy, in which decoder functions were physically and permanently linked to certain DCC decoder electrical control ports and certain DCC throttle keys, allowing the use of one term for all participating elements. For a better understanding and for a better control of the available features, there is a need for a more adequate use of terms and language.

With the ability of "logically" associating decoder internal functions or controls of lights in a very flexible way to the physical electrical ports of the decoder, the QSI Titan decoders have brought this to a superior level than seen before, which is so great!.

A similar ability of "logically" associating control functions to throttle keys is present in some DCC throttles. For instance on a NCE Power Cab throttle one can change the "default" association of  the "horn" button to any other key.
 
As the control of other model/scale locomotive functions is just around the corner for HO or N scale, while it may be already present at larger scales - for instance decoder control of coupling/uncoupling, doors/hatches opening, cooling fans motion, etc...,   the meaning and the distinction of "function" from the "control/electrical port" of the decoder is brought to a new level. 

As Jan has mentioned the QSI decoder owners/users are already benefiting from a careful choice of terms and language in  QSI decoder documentation,  With more and more functions/features, that trend, that quest for clarity need be continued, and we can do that too on this forum.

Note: "logical association", or in other words, a "soft association"  is opposite, or different from a "physical association", or in other words "hard (or hardwired) association".  A "logical association" provides the flexibility of allowing a change through some explicit commands, as opposed to the "physical association", which is permanent for the life of a decoder, or throttle

Note2: "generality" and "abstraction" is meant to indicate that even though from a certain perspective functions may be physically completely different/distinct, they can be treated in a similar way, from the perspective of the decoder's control and configuring mechanisms.



 


Carrs (Gmail) <carrs2020@...>
 

The use of "function" for both a button on a DCC controller and an action by a DCC decoder causes confusion in general. The confusion deepens when "function" can apply to a decoder action that could be either a sound output or an output on a particular physical wire. QSI documentation is among the clearest but other manufacturers' are virtually incomprehensible due in large part to the multiple meanings of the word "function".  At least one manufacturer even gives buttons and decoder wires identical names F1, F2 etc even though they are not tied together and in fact can be flexibly mapped.

All to say that Tren Ule's use of "port" for the physical output of a decoder is a welcome initiative that we should encourage for general use. If function button 1 is mapped to port 3, for example, "P3 is toggled by F1" is a lot clearer than "decoder output F3 is toggled by F1".

Jan Carr
Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Rogers network.
From: trenule@... [QSIndustries]
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2015 7:14 AM
To: QSIndustries@...
Reply To: QSIndustries@...
Subject: RE: [QSIndustries] Re: QSI Please include "Headlight Dimmers" in CVManager's Multiple lights

 

Certain non-sound decoders allow "light control" functions - i.e. light control (function) ports - to be associated with any throttle key, which is great.

The "sound control" functions, which sound decoders have - besides the light control functions - are somewhat different, in that they are not associated with a specific decoder control (function) (electric control) port.

QSI decoders allow certain "sound control" functions to be associated with certain "light control" functions
to a a certain throttle key - for instance the association of "horn or bell sound and ditch lights alternate blinking" with the Horn/Whistle Key, respectively Bell Key.

If I understand correctly, recently that has been extended to the "mars lights" and "over head strobe lights", which is great.

A "smoke" function is similar to a light function, in that it is associated with a physical electric control port.

It seems both useful, and flexible, if the association of functions - light, sound, smoke, etc... - would be generic, so that "any" function could be associated with "any" throttle key, of the operator's choice, allowing multiple functions control at the press of one button.

tren ule



kjlovesya
 

Hello Gerry and all,

  Thank you for your responses.  Perhaps I was not clear enough in my request; my apologies!


  Currently, my locomotives are set up with non-automatic (non-directional) headlights.   The startup default for both headlights is set to "ON" and "Dim".   At startup the locomotive turns both headlights on low beam.   I can then press the (re-mapped) relative function buttons to independently control the ON-OFF and DIMMER of each (front and back) headlight.  (the reason for these choices are: in case of locomotive stall,  the offending locomotive will at least resume with it's headlights on - I can then re-toggle the high beam as necessary)

  QSI has included a seperate function, called Front Headlight Dimmer (and Reverse Headlight Dimmer) in the Function Mapping section of CV Manager.   I have re-mapped the function buttons to use single, independent function keys to toggle each respective dimmer.  In my case I currently use F4 to toggle FHL Dimmer and F5 to toggle RHL Dimmer.      F0 controls FHL ON-OFF and F10 controls RHL ON-OFF.


  QSI has also included a Multiple Lights section where virtually any combination of lights can be toggled from a single function key.   The dimming of lights, however, is not included in the options of this section.







  What I am requesting is that both head light dimmers (independent - front and back) also be included as options in the multiple lights section.





  The reason for this request is the fact that modern diesels have both the ditch lights and the Headlight "High Beam" (dimmer toggle) turned on in a single rotary switch action (the equivalent of a single function button press).

  I would like to be able to press F4 and the FHL will go bright and simultaneously turning the Front Ditch Lights ON.   Likewise, F5 will control the same functions at the other end of the loco.


  I hope this clarifies my request.

Best regards,
KJ


trenule
 

It is certainly useful to have the ability to associate the DIM-ON/DIM-OFF control of a light to any throttle key. 

It does not seem to me possible though that it could be done with the existing NMRA generic two dimensional matrix of decoder function ON/OFF control ports, and throttle keys which is the mechanism that is being used by many decoders to associate ON/OFF light controls to a certain throttle key.

The DIM is not only an additional dimension to the binary ON/OFF light control, but also implies a possible transition to ON (BRIGHT), or to OFF. which adds to the complexity.

I don't even see how all that would work with a toggle ON/OFF key.

It seems to me that it would require either two different toggle keys - one for transitioning to LIGHT OFF, the other for transition to LIGHT BRIGHT ON, in other words

- DIM ON/OFF from/to Light BRIGHT
- DIM ON/OFF from/to Light OFF.

or a multiple stage key, which really gets complicated, not only to configure, but also to use.

tren ule


Eugene <Eugsue@...>
 

Hi Gerry

Not sure what KJ wants, but yes the ability to dim several lights with the one function Key would be great. My need is to be able to dim the front headlight or the rear headlight with the same function. My experiments when wanting to do this normally mean I have to assign each headlight (front/rear) dim to a different function.

Maybe I'm doing it wrong.

Here in Australia we have many diesel locos with dual cabs, so this would be great. Many non sound decoders that I have used allow this to happen.



Cheers……….Eugene



From: QSIndustries@... [mailto:QSIndustries@...]
Sent: Tuesday, 22 September 2015 9:37 AM
To: QSIndustries@...
Subject: [QSIndustries] Re: QSI Please include "Headlight Dimmers" in CVManager's Multiple lights





KJ,



I don't understand what you want changed in regards to the Multiple Lights CV's.



CV55.136.0 allows you to turn on/off the automatic Headlight and Reverse Light features

(and 6 other automatic light features) with a single FKey. Whether these lights are

actually on or are bright or dim depends on how you configure the automatic light features,

for example, how you configure CV55.70.1 for automatic Headlight behavior.



Perhaps you want a CV that will allow you to dim several lights with a single FKey?



Gerry Pruss

QSI


g_pruss
 

KJ,

I don't understand what you want changed in regards to the Multiple Lights CV's.

CV55.136.0 allows you to turn on/off the automatic Headlight and Reverse Light features
(and 6 other automatic light features) with a single FKey. Whether these lights are
actually on or are bright or dim depends on how you configure the automatic light features,
for example, how you configure CV55.70.1 for automatic Headlight behavior.

Perhaps you want a CV that will allow you to dim several lights with a single FKey?

Gerry Pruss
QSI


kjlovesya
 

Hello QSI and all,


  All diesel locomotives have a rotary type Head light switch.  (most models have two - front and reverse).  Each switch has at least three positions:


1 - Off


2 - Head light ON = Dim


3 - Head light ON = Bright (plus optional ditch lights on Bright)




  I'm building a Control Stand Throttle, based on a NCE system, that includes rotary type switches to control the head lights and ditch lights.   I've remapped the FHL and RHL for individual, independent control.


  If it's not too much trouble may I ask QSI to include both FHL Dimmer and RHL Dimmer in the Multiple Lights columns options. 


Thank you,

KJ