Titan-G v8 & v9


Dave Robinson
 

My buddies and I recently got two new Titan-G AristoCraft 10-Amp decoders preloaded with GE Dash-9 sound, one is version 8 and one is version 9, and we have a few questions.

1)  Firmware version
In the v9, the decoder firmware says it was built 2014/Jan/16, but the version/revision/build/engbuild says "7.0.154.4".  Version _7_ ?  Really??  CV7 reports "7" too.  Q2Upgrade/Retrieve-Loco-Info reports Version = "NA.0.154.4", and Model = 1143.

2)  Wrong horn blat
After switching to the alternate horn (via F11), the motive-state-change-warning-signals properly use the alternate horn for forward & reverse, but use the _primary_ horn for stopping.  This is in both v8 & v9.

3)  Odd notching, v8
In the version 8 (soundset 600, firmware 8.9.1, build date 2012/Nov/8, last modified 2013/Feb/21), why don't the engine revs and sound volume change when going up from notch 3 to notch 4, and from 4 to 5, and from 5 to 6, but there's a HUGE increase going from 6 to 7 (like the sound is suddenly catching up for the missed notch changes)?  From 7 to 8 is okay as are from 0 to 1, 1 to 2, and 2 to 3.  There is the sound of (I'm guessing) laboured exhaust that comes up and dies off properly once the change-in-notch finishes, but the engine revs and sound volume have not changed from the previous notch.
I noticed this after getting the sound file from QSI and listening to it with the previewer in Q2Upgrade, and thought it was something wrong in the simulation, but now that we have an actual decoder with it, it shows the same problem.
Same changes or lack of when notching down too.
However, specifically setting CV117.10.1 - Motor Index to 15 (ie GE-FDL-16) makes all the notch-change sounds correct, whereas the Motor Index = 1 = Native Motor gives the incorrect sounds.

4)  Odd notching, v9
In the version 9 Dash-9, why is there such a huge increase in engine revs and sound volume when going from notch 7 to 8?  The other notch changes are almost subtle, but going from 7 to 8 dwarfs them all.  It sounds like the engine is gonna fly apart!  Again, same changes going down in notches.
The v9 decoder does not contain libraries so can't try setting the Motor Index.

5)  Un-muting
Not peculiar to these Dash-9's nor v8/v9, why does the decoder 'un-mute' when Starting-Up from Disconnect?  I use a non-zero mute-volume setting to have an 'indoor voice' when working indoors on these G-scale machines versus the 'outdoor voice' when running outdoors.  Why wouldn't the decoder's volume stay at whatever F8 is (assuming F8 is Mute of course)?

Comments please?

Thanks,
Dave Robinson in Edmonton



Kevin Strong
 

2)  Wrong horn blat
After switching to the alternate horn (via F11), the motive-state-change-warning-signals properly use the alternate horn for forward & reverse, but use the _primary_ horn for stopping.  This is in both v8 & v9.

I've found this on the steam files as well (both v. 8 and v. 9). I "corrected" this by setting the stop horn volume to zero, and manually blow the stop signal when I'm truly stopped. This also gets past the loco blowing the "stop" signal between changes in direction, which is truer to the prototype anyway. It doesn't address the technical reasons to why it resorts to the primary horn for the stop signal, but it's a good workaround. 

I can't be of much help on the other issues. 

Later,

K


kelly dorf
 

Gentlemen:
Here is my input on this:

1: Gerry Question
2: Bug. Has been reported to Gerry, will be fixed in next release.
3/4: That's how the GE 7FDL16 engine works. There is electronic power management and traction motor phasing to make up for the increase power as the throttle is increased. In the v8 (Q2-FX) version of the file we didn't have as much information about that process as we did when we released the Q3 (v9) file, which runs correctly according to how the GE 7FDL-16 modern motor works. This is prototypically accurate and was researched working with real engineers on the Seminole Gulf Railway in Florida. Yes it's odd, but it's accurate.
5: Sounds again, like a bug. 

Gerry is out this week, but will return on monday.

Kelly
QSI


Robert V
 

Kelly, Where was the GE-9 File released to? I can't find it on the QSI Solution's sight I would like a copy for my large scale Titan

Thank you
Bob V.

From: Kelly Dorf kelly.dorf@... [QSIndustries]
Sent: ‎9/‎17/‎2014 3:22 PM
To: QSIndustries@...
Subject: Re: [QSIndustries] Titan-G v8 & v9

Gentlemen:
Here is my input on this:

1: Gerry Question
2: Bug. Has been reported to Gerry, will be fixed in next release.
3/4: That's how the GE 7FDL16 engine works. There is electronic power management and traction motor phasing to make up for the increase power as the throttle is increased. In the v8 (Q2-FX) version of the file we didn't have as much information about that process as we did when we released the Q3 (v9) file, which runs correctly according to how the GE 7FDL-16 modern motor works. This is prototypically accurate and was researched working with real engineers on the Seminole Gulf Railway in Florida. Yes it's odd, but it's accurate.
5: Sounds again, like a bug. 

Gerry is out this week, but will return on monday.

Kelly
QSI


Dave Robinson
 

Kevin:
Hmm, I didn't realize there was a stop-horn-volume.  Um where is that?  Is that CV52.0 - Primary Horn Volume (or Whistle I guess in steam)?
The 'customer' guys here always turn off the motive-state-change-warnings anyway, but I like your workaround.


Kelly:
Notching behavior:  Odd - yeah!
But then why does the Q2's library version of the Dash-9 motor record sound 'right' to me compared to the native record?  If the native is right, then is the library one actually wrong?

Bugs:
After several decades of coding, I understand bugs.  I'm impressed that you're here and can respond so quickly.  Thanks!

Dave Robinson


g_pruss
 

Dave,

>>> 1)  Firmware version <<<

"7.0.154.4" indicates that this is an engineering firmware release.
A version 9 production release would have something like "9.2.5"


>>> 2)  Wrong horn blat <<<

This bug was fixed on 24-July-2014.


>>>
5)  Un-muting 
why does the decoder 'un-mute' when Starting-Up from Disconnect?
>>>

The spec for "Startup from Disconnect/Standby/Shutdown" includes
restoring the system volume to the un-muted state. All QSI decoders
behave, and have always behaved, in accordance with that part of the spec.

As to why it makes sense to automatically un-mute upon Startup,
it is probably a historical artifact from the time when the firmware
did not support CV51.1 Mute Volume. Before CV51.1 was available,
when the decoder was muted the volume was always set to 0. It was
then necessary to automatically un-mute upon Startup so that the operator had audio feedback
that the Startup operation was actually executed.

Gerry Pruss
QSI


Dave Robinson
 

Hi Gerry,

>>> 1) Firmware version <<<

Sounded odd to me too so I listened carefully a few times.  When we got this decoder and it acted like a version 9, I was surprised by this version/revision/build/engbuild info and the CV7 value.

This decoder came preloaded from a dealer in Colorado; no idea where he got the sound file.


Maybe you could answer this question.
Kelly Dorf described the odd engine notching behaviour of the GE 7FDL16 after I asked about the notching sounds in the version 8 (Q2) Dash-9 sound file.  [To me, the v9 (Q3) is also odd but not in the same way.]  I do accept Kelly's answer.
But, in the v8 decoder, why do the 'native' and the library versions of the engine sound not sound the same?  I'd say the library version is correct, but from Kelly's description, maybe the library one is actually wrong.

Thanks for the reply,
Dave Robinson
Edmonton, Canada


Robert V
 

Hi don't want to be a pest but where did you get the dash nine sound file? NO ONE SEEMS TO SEE MY REQUEST AT QSI SOLUTIONS OR HERE THIS REALLY SUCKS !!!!!!
 
Respectfully,
Bob Van Deusen

From: "daver@... [QSIndustries]"
To: QSIndustries@...
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2014 3:00 AM
Subject: [QSIndustries] Re: Titan-G v8 & v9



Hi Gerry,

>>> 1) Firmware version <<<

Sounded odd to me too so I listened carefully a few times.  When we got this decoder and it acted like a version 9, I was surprised by this version/revision/build/engbuild info and the CV7 value.

This decoder came preloaded from a dealer in Colorado; no idea where he got the sound file.


Maybe you could answer this question.
Kelly Dorf described the odd engine notching behaviour of the GE 7FDL16 after I asked about the notching sounds in the version 8 (Q2) Dash-9 sound file.  [To me, the v9 (Q3) is also odd but not in the same way.]  I do accept Kelly's answer.
But, in the v8 decoder, why do the 'native' and the library versions of the engine sound not sound the same?  I'd say the library version is correct, but from Kelly's description, maybe the library one is actually wrong.

Thanks for the reply,
Dave Robinson
Edmonton, Canada




ewarhol@...
 

Bob-

HO scale or Large scale? Q2 sound file or Q3 (ET) sound file?

Looking on the QSI website under the sound files tab. I first went to the Titan Emulator Technology (ET) section. The Dash 9 sound file is available in HO scale. It is sound file number 1142-0 GE 7 FDL16 (Modern). 
The Dash 9 sound file is not yet available in Large Scale. I assume (don't know for sure) that the HO scale file could be used for Large Scale, you probably won't get the greatest sound output for those large engines.

Back to the sound files tab go under Q2 FX sound files for titan. For HO scale the Q2 FX it is the GE sound file #1100-600. For Large Scale it's sound file number 1101-600. 

Use the Quantum Programmer and the Q2 Upgrade software to customize the sound files.

Eric


Robert V
 

Eric , Sorry for the rant but the large scale guys seem to be the bastard child. Look at the HO sound file there are twice as many sound files. I was told by Josh at least three weeks ago that the Dash 9 Q3 ET large scale file was all set to go but where the hell is it promise after promise after promise broken or forgotten. I like Josh but the time has come to call picture like it is I also asked Kelly and was never even given a courtesy acknowledgment . QSI WAKE UP AND EITHER SUPPORT YOUR PRODUCT OR TELL US THE TRUTH AND LET US FIND OTHER COMPANIES THAT WANT OUR BUSINESS.  I KNOW THE OWNERS OF THIS GROUP MONITOR THIS GROUPHOW ABOUT SPEAKING UP. THIS IS ABSOLUTE B.S.
 
Respectfully,
Bob Van Deusen

From: "ewarhol@... [QSIndustries]"
To: QSIndustries@...
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2014 9:44 AM
Subject: Re: [QSIndustries] Re: Titan-G v8 & v9



Bob-

HO scale or Large scale? Q2 sound file or Q3 (ET) sound file?

Looking on the QSI website under the sound files tab. I first went to the Titan Emulator Technology (ET) section. The Dash 9 sound file is available in HO scale. It is sound file number 1142-0 GE 7 FDL16 (Modern). 
The Dash 9 sound file is not yet available in Large Scale. I assume (don't know for sure) that the HO scale file could be used for Large Scale, you probably won't get the greatest sound output for those large engines.

Back to the sound files tab go under Q2 FX sound files for titan. For HO scale the Q2 FX it is the GE sound file #1100-600. For Large Scale it's sound file number 1101-600. 

Use the Quantum Programmer and the Q2 Upgrade software to customize the sound files.

Eric





ewarhol@...
 

I hear ya Bob. It's obvious why there's more HO scale than Large Scale. Given that HO scale is way more popular, has more equipment, etc. 

After years/decades in HO scale I switched to Garden Railroading this year. I've been acquiring Large Scale equipment for years. I hope as well as you, that the Large Scale portion of the hobby will only continue to grow. As for the delay in the Dash 9 release it would be nice to hear why. I can only speculate that maybe a bug was found and that is being worked out. 

Eric


Robert V
 

Eric if it's a bug then tell us that enough said.
 
Respectfully,
Bob Van Deusen

From: "ewarhol@... [QSIndustries]"
To: QSIndustries@...
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2014 1:03 PM
Subject: Re: [QSIndustries] Re: Titan-G v8 & v9



I hear ya Bob. It's obvious why there's more HO scale than Large Scale. Given that HO scale is way more popular, has more equipment, etc. 

After years/decades in HO scale I switched to Garden Railroading this year. I've been acquiring Large Scale equipment for years. I hope as well as you, that the Large Scale portion of the hobby will only continue to grow. As for the delay in the Dash 9 release it would be nice to hear why. I can only speculate that maybe a bug was found and that is being worked out. 



Eric





g_pruss
 

Dave,

>>> But, in the v8 decoder, why do the 'native' and the library versions
of the engine sound not sound the same?  I'd say the library version is
correct, but from Kelly's description, maybe the library one is actually
wrong. <<<

Which version 8 firmware (native motor) are you using for comparison?
Model Number = ___________
Soundset Number = _________
Version Number = __.__.__
Build Date = ____________

Which CV117.10.1 Motor Index (library motor) are you using for comparison?

Gerry Pruss
QSI


Dave Robinson
 

I don't have the particular unit handy (the owner has it), but from my notes, it has this info:
soundset 600, firmware 8.9.1, build date 2012/Nov/8, last modified 2013/Feb/21

I set CV117.10.1 to 15 (GE-FDL-16).  To me, this library version sounds correct with appropriate increase in engine revs and sound volume for each 'notch up' of all eight notches.  However, setting CV117.10.1 to 1 (native) makes for that 'odd' notching behaviour.

Am I wrong in thinking that these two sounds (native and specifically-picked-from-library) should have the same behaviour?

Thanks Gerry,
Dave Robinson


Dave Robinson
 

> Respectfully,

"Respectfully"??  Hmmph!

Since you're quoting my post, let me answer.  Life intrudes!  (That and sucky Yahoo interface IMHO.)


From your message 15359:
> Hello, I read your post on the QSI Yahoo group.
> Where did you get your decoders from that were loaded with the Dash 9 sound file?
> I want to load one of my decoders with the new file .
> Would you make a file and send it to me?

The Q3 (ie version 9) Dash-9 decoder came preloaded from a dealer in Colorado, not sure of his name; my buddy shops there.
I found a v9 file in the files section here kindly provided by Mr. Forsyth, but I suspect it might be designed for HO, I don't know.
I don't have the capability to 'make a file'.

Dave Robinson
Edmonton, Canada



Robert V
 

I am sorry for the rudeness of my post . It was in no way directed at you . It just shows the frustration I and maybe some of us feel here. I have long supported QSI and it's products but the absence of information and a true customer support is to blame here. Again my apologies for my obvious rudeness this is suppose to be a hobby and the enjoyment is gone for me. When a manufacturer has in my case deserted a loyal and dedicated customer. There is no place here for this so I'm choosing to search for a decoder that is maybe less but the manufacture is a least forthright and will truly respond to a customers needs. so long QSI. And yes this was intended to be said respectfully .
 
Respectfully,
Bob Van Deusen

From: "daver@... [QSIndustries]"
To: QSIndustries@...
Sent: Friday, September 26, 2014 10:06 AM
Subject: [QSIndustries] Re: Titan-G v8 & v9



> Respectfully,

"Respectfully"??  Hmmph!

Since you're quoting my post, let me answer.  Life intrudes!  (That and sucky Yahoo interface IMHO.)


From your message 15359:
> Hello, I read your post on the QSI Yahoo group.
> Where did you get your decoders from that were loaded with the Dash 9 sound file?
> I want to load one of my decoders with the new file .
> Would you make a file and send it to me?

The Q3 (ie version 9) Dash-9 decoder came preloaded from a dealer in Colorado, not sure of his name; my buddy shops there.
I found a v9 file in the files section here kindly provided by Mr. Forsyth, but I suspect it might be designed for HO, I don't know.
I don't have the capability to 'make a file'.

Dave Robinson
Edmonton, Canada






Art
 

Bob,
Four ways to contact Josh at QSI Solutions:
 
    quantumrailsounds@...
    info@...
    Try sending a fax using the fax number on the back of the decoder manual.
    Call him on the phone on Friday afternoon about 4 P.M.. That is when they appear to be the least busy.
 
   I tried all of these and actually talked to him on the phone last Friday and also received a response to one of my eMails yesterday.
   He appears to be quite busy with all the new stuff, Q3 ET etc. and I do know that he just put on some additional help.
 
Good Luck,
Art DeFazio
Parma, Ohio
PCIRR 

To: QSIndustries@...
From: QSIndustries@...
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 08:03:36 -0700
Subject: Re: [QSIndustries] Re: Titan-G v8 & v9

 
I am sorry for the rudeness of my post . It was in no way directed at you . It just shows the frustration I and maybe some of us feel here. I have long supported QSI and it's products but the absence of information and a true customer support is to blame here. Again my apologies for my obvious rudeness this is suppose to be a hobby and the enjoyment is gone for me. When a manufacturer has in my case deserted a loyal and dedicated customer. There is no place here for this so I'm choosing to search for a decoder that is maybe less but the manufacture is a least forthright and will truly respond to a customers needs. so long QSI. And yes this was intended to be said respectfully .
 
Respectfully,
Bob Van Deusen

From: "daver@... [QSIndustries]"
To: QSIndustries@...
Sent: Friday, September 26, 2014 10:06 AM
Subject: [QSIndustries] Re: Titan-G v8 & v9



> Respectfully,

"Respectfully"??  Hmmph!

Since you're quoting my post, let me answer.  Life intrudes!  (That and sucky Yahoo interface IMHO.)


From your message 15359:
> Hello, I read your post on the QSI Yahoo group.
> Where did you get your decoders from that were loaded with the Dash 9 sound file?
> I want to load one of my decoders with the new file .
> Would you make a file and send it to me?

The Q3 (ie version 9) Dash-9 decoder came preloaded from a dealer in Colorado, not sure of his name; my buddy shops there.
I found a v9 file in the files section here kindly provided by Mr. Forsyth, but I suspect it might be designed for HO, I don't know.
I don't have the capability to 'make a file'.

Dave Robinson
Edmonton, Canada







g_pruss
 

Dave,

Due to a build error, the 1101-600v8-9-1 firmware, which was supposed
to have a GE motor, instead has an ALCo motor. This is now fixed.
The revised firmware should be available on the QSSolutions site within 24 hours.

Gerry Pruss
QSI


Dave Robinson
 

Heh, guess I can't tell a GE from an Alco!  <grin>

Thanks for the fix,
Dave Robinson