Date   

Wiring Ditchlights in Atlas Dash 8-40CW

citaro_o530
 
Edited

I'm restoring an old Atlas Dash 8-40CW and I need help connecting the lights. As you can see in the picture I have the 5-pin connector with wires in blue, brown, black, orange and red. I found that the red wire is the + 5V pin 1 and the headlight is pin 2 orange. Now the question is how to connect the remaining 3 wires in the ditchlights to the chassis contacts. Can someone help me?


Re: QSI in an Atlas Dash8-40CW

Nick
 

James,

The Atlas Gold series were (for me) GREAT locos. I still own 2 of the FM Trainmasters and other than dirty wheel problems, they still work and sound  great.

Tony's carried the original speakers and they will work fine as replacements. I have also replaced some of the original speakers, in other locos, with small sugar cube speakers with surprising results. "Bass" response with the small enclosures is remarkable compared to the "compact" speakers available when these locos were released almost 20 years ago. Don't be afraid to try them . Modifications in mounting them is needed but they do work well.

As Paul mentioned, the original decoders were the "crippled" versions thanks to Mike's Train House's frivolous lawsuit back then. After the suit was dismissed, the upgrade chips and programmer were released. The old chips had a LOT of problems like no BEMF, loss of programming after a short circuit, running away after a short circuit, and more than can be addressed in this forum.The $30.00 price for the upgrade is well worth the investment. It also provides a way to upgrade the sound file if you own the QSI programmer or know someone that does.

Good luck,
Nick Kulp


Re: QSI in an Atlas Dash8-40CW

Paul B/Indy
 

FWIW, these were a Rev 6 when new out of the box.  The Rev 7 was available as a replacement plug-in chip for these engines.

Paul B/Indy


On Apr 2, 2021, at 12:18 AM, Bob Waldele <rwaldele@...> wrote:

James
If I recall correctly (without benefit of opening up one of my Atlas Gold series units)
The decoder is either a Q1 (Rev.6) or Q1a (Rev.7) version.  In the road switchers they used an A-frame cast into the rear (long hood) weight block and it is fitted with two (2) 28mm 8Ohm 0.5W speakers wired in series; the “net” effect is a 16Ohm 1W speaker equivalent.  These speakers have a low-profile (shallow) cone so the back of the speaker does not vibrate against the carbody.  These “special” speakers are readily through most suppliers (Tony’s, Litchfield, MB Klein, etc.).
Given the age of these units, it is possible that one of the wire connections might be coming loose causing the intermittent or static; examine the solder connections at the speakers and also the wire connections at the decoder (one or more broken strands?).  It is also possible – as you suspect – the speaker may be showing its age (I have had both of these happen)
Good luck.
Bob.W


Re: QSI in an Atlas Dash8-40CW

Bob Waldele
 

James

If I recall correctly (without benefit of opening up one of my Atlas Gold series units)

The decoder is either a Q1 (Rev.6) or Q1a (Rev.7) version.  In the road switchers they used an A-frame cast into the rear (long hood) weight block and it is fitted with two (2) 28mm 8Ohm 0.5W speakers wired in series; the “net” effect is a 16Ohm 1W speaker equivalent.  These speakers have a low-profile (shallow) cone so the back of the speaker does not vibrate against the carbody.  These “special” speakers are readily through most suppliers (Tony’s, Litchfield, MB Klein, etc.).

Given the age of these units, it is possible that one of the wire connections might be coming loose causing the intermittent or static; examine the solder connections at the speakers and also the wire connections at the decoder (one or more broken strands?).  It is also possible – as you suspect – the speaker may be showing its age (I have had both of these happen)

Good luck.

Bob.W


Re: QSI in an Atlas Dash8-40CW

ffbrehm@...
 

Hi James,

They are 8 ohm. They are slightly larger than 1” I believe but not exactly sure of the size.

Frank Brehm

 

From: QSIndustries@groups.io <QSIndustries@groups.io> On Behalf Of santafe49 via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, April 1, 2021 5:03 PM
To: QSIndustries@groups.io
Subject: [QSIndustries] QSI in an Atlas Dash8-40CW

 

I have an Atlas Master Dash8-40CW from the June 2004 release, with factory installed QSI decoder. The sound has gotten kind of crackly and i suppose the speaker/s have cracked?
Would anyone happen to know the Ohm load of the speakers? 4, 8, or 16 ohms?
Haven't opened it up but thought i would be get ahead of the game if someone had the answer.
Thanks in advance.
--
James St. Clair


Re: QSI in an Atlas Dash8-40CW

Barry Yankolonis
 

Hi James,
From my recollection, think all the QSI decoders came with 8 ohm speakers.
Yank


QSI in an Atlas Dash8-40CW

santafe49
 

I have an Atlas Master Dash8-40CW from the June 2004 release, with factory installed QSI decoder. The sound has gotten kind of crackly and i suppose the speaker/s have cracked?
Would anyone happen to know the Ohm load of the speakers? 4, 8, or 16 ohms?
Haven't opened it up but thought i would be get ahead of the game if someone had the answer.
Thanks in advance.
--
James St. Clair


Re: Decoderstopping

Greg Elmassian
 

that wiki is not perfect, sorry.... clearly written by someone who does not have an electrical engineering degree, or is keeping current with technology

You cannot make up your own definitions of commonly accepted electronics and physics standards to suit yourself.

1,2,8,  are wrong the answer to #8 even contradicts itself, yes of course there are not positive and negative voltages at the same time (doh!) but the polarity of the rails reverse each cycle.

12 - it depends on the manufacturer, but grammatically the answer is correct, because of the word "must"

14 is wrong, in that many systems have extra control signals, as stated, thus boosters for those systems are effectively brand specific, and the answer ignores the input levels to the booster.

18 is old data as many large scale decoders now have dual 4 watt, and even dual 10 watt amplifiers clearly 20 watts at (G scale track voltage) 20 volts is an amp, clearly more in smaller scales (lower DCC voltage)

24 shows the author has never worked in large scale, with motors with high stall currents... pittman motors can have huge stall currents as well as USA Trains locos....

34 is wrong, dang it, several manufacturers are sneaking in some of the other bits in cv29... they should be slapped silly, again old data

37 is wrong, if you are using a 1/4 wave antenna, a pie pan can add the needed ground plane... (nowadays more manufacturers are using 1/2 wave designs that don't need a ground plane)

Some of the other explanations of the DCC signal are muddled, confusing voltage/amplitude with the frequency/modulation....

Greg


Re: Decoderstopping

Gilbert Buras Jr
 

From: QSIndustries@groups.io <QSIndustries@groups.io> On Behalf Of Greg Elmassian
Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2021 6:05 PM
To: QSIndustries@groups.io
Subject: Re: [QSIndustries] Decoderstopping

 

You actually contradict yourself... please read the definition of alternating current, it really means alternating voltage, no waveform implied.

So you think "bipolar" is not the same as changing between negative and positive? That's only true in psychological disorders.

AC does not need to be sinusoidal.

Please either consult an electrical engineer with a degree, or post some authoritative links.

I present the definition of AC via wikipedia.

DC means a single directional flow of current, which DCC is most definitely not.

Again I present the definition of DC via wikipedia.

Looking for support of your statements, I have supported mine, and can produce more.

Greg Elmassian


On Sun, Mar 28, 2021 at 09:41 AM, Talmadge C 'TC' Carr wrote:

No it does not as it does not alternate to negative.
It is bipolar DC never been AC.

Talmadge C 'TC' Carr
Sn42 and Hn42 somewhere in the wilds of the Pacific Northwest
group_list@...

On 27March2021, at 13:23, Greg Elmassian <greg@...> wrote:

By the way AC is alternating current, any waveform that alternates between plus and minus, thus DCC qualifies.


Re: Decoderstopping

Greg Elmassian
 

PennsyNut:

If you are saying that an inaccurate, but repeatable reading on a non-RMS meter is ok for debugging, I agree... you can use it to look for voltage drops, but you should put a load at the "far end", measuring voltage drop without a load will not give you results unless your layout is REALLY screwed up.

This is because of Ohms law. If you have resistance in the path, but you are only drawing enough current for the meter, it will not represent the voltage loss when under load.

Now, you CANNOT ask why would the decoder not work on 14.8 volts? You do not have a way to make that statement, since you do not have a meter to accurately read DCC voltage.

You can indeed make a simple addition to your meter to make it accurate, will cost you about $3, put a full wave bridge, with a small filter cap on the input to your meter, and read DC volts.

Since DCC is a square wave, the full wave bridge rectifier will convert the DCC signal to DC with a modicum of filtering (caveat, if your layout is messed up, it can radically affect the DCC waveform)

Anyway, spend the $3 and then you can speak accurately and authoritatively about your track voltage. Get a load (like a 2 amp load, which at 20 volts would be a 10 ohm, 40 watt resistor) and connect it across the rails at the furthest point from your power feed, and then measure your track voltage with your "DCC to DC" converter.

Greg


Re: Decoderstopping

Greg Elmassian
 
Edited

Talmadge:

You actually contradict yourself... please read the definition of alternating current, it really means alternating voltage, no waveform implied.

So you think "bipolar" is not the same as changing between negative and positive? That's only true in psychological disorders.

AC does not need to be sinusoidal.

Please either consult an electrical engineer with a degree, or post some authoritative links.

I present the definition of AC via wikipedia.

DC means a single directional flow of current, which DCC is most definitely not.

Again I present the definition of DC via wikipedia.

Looking for support of your statements, I have supported mine, and can produce more.

Greg Elmassian


On Sun, Mar 28, 2021 at 09:41 AM, Talmadge C 'TC' Carr wrote:
No it does not as it does not alternate to negative.
It is bipolar DC never been AC.

Talmadge C 'TC' Carr
Sn42 and Hn42 somewhere in the wilds of the Pacific Northwest
group_list@...

On 27March2021, at 13:23, Greg Elmassian <greg@...> wrote:

By the way AC is alternating current, any waveform that alternates between plus and minus, thus DCC qualifies.


Re: Decoderstopping

 

I must clarify myself. When I measured volts on 24'. That was with one meter at one end and another meter at the other. Connection from the command station at the middle. Power on, but no locos. And also with locos on and running. Still had adequate voltage - per cheap meters.
Morgan F Bilbo, DCS50, UT4D, UR93, SPROGIIv4, JMRI 4.20, Pennsy modeler 1952


Re: Decoderstopping

 

Please clarify. For me. When a railroad modeler is frugal. Either can't afford a RRAMP, or simply don't want to spend that kind of money. And, have meters from Harbor Freight that are adequate for normal measuring. I was given to understand that 15v AC/or close to it (Depending on the quality of the meter's measure) across the rails on a DCC layout was sufficient to determine the minimum to be sure you had proper voltage. I had used that for continuity. Example: On my 24' shelf layout. Measuring AC volts at one end and at the other, meant I had good current? on my layout. That the rail joiners were not loose, etc. And that this was sufficient for most any decoder or loco or whatever. So, why would a QSI decoder not work on 14.8v? I have a QSI as well as Paragon 2/3 (aren't these these the successors to QSI?) and they all work fine for me.
Morgan F Bilbo, DCS50, UT4D, UR93, SPROGIIv4, JMRI 4.20, Pennsy modeler 1952


Re: Decoderstopping

Talmadge C 'TC' Carr
 

No it does not as it does not alternate to negative.
It is bipolar DC never been AC.

Talmadge C 'TC' Carr
Sn42 and Hn42 somewhere in the wilds of the Pacific Northwest
group_list@dapenguin.net

On 27March2021, at 13:23, Greg Elmassian <greg@elmassian.com> wrote:

By the way AC is alternating current, any waveform that alternates between plus and minus, thus DCC qualifies.


Re: Decoderstopping

Greg Elmassian
 

By the way AC is alternating current, any waveform that alternates between plus and minus, thus DCC qualifies.

When talking about AC, you also need to specify the waveform, as in Sinusoidal 60 HZ (your wall outlet), or frequency modulated square wave (DCC).

And to continue to be very specific, if you wish to measure the DCC AC signal, you need an RMS (root mean squared) reading meter, or look at the waveform on a scope.

"normal" is not really helping people understand what specific capability they need in a meter, digital meters will specify if their AC scale is "true RMS"

Just a couple of clarifications. I also love the QSI Titan, I have quite a few in Large Scale, and they have proven to be reliable and robust.

And I too was in the beta testing, in fact, I may have predated you, do you have one of the "USA Type" large scale units?

Greg


Re: Decoderstopping

Nick
 

Hi Ray,

I BETA tested for QSI so I have some experience with the decoders.

First, why did you test the decoder with AC ?
DCC signal levels cannot be tested unless you use the RRAMP from Tony's. Is that what you used ? A "normal" meter cannot measure a DCC signal. I know that a false definition that DCC is an AC signal has floated around for a long time but it is not true. I'm only trying to insure folks understand that, No disrespect intended.

Second, what type of DCC system are you using and what SCALE ? Very important we know this. Large-scale decoders are not the same electronics as the normal HO scale after-market decoders.

What are you using to program the decoder ? JMRI, QSI software and Programmer, or a DCC throttle and knob-twisting (really old-school) ?

Just a note. if you are using a standard QSI decoder like a Revolution or Titan designed for HO scale, in a large-scale loco, it will shut down like you described because of thermal overload.

If you are using a Revolution or Titan with DC conversion enabled, it will have problems because the "conversion" is only there to be NMRA compatible. Most decoders of ANY manufacturer, do not work well with that enabled. Classically, when a short occurs on an older DCC system, the command station will send out a burst of scrambled data while it tries to recover. With DC conversion enabled, the decoders "sees" a DC signal and tries to run on DC. After the short is resolved on the layout, the scrambled data screws up the decoder programming. I strongly suggest  that you set the decoder to DCC ONLY, (CV29 sets the 2 / 4 digit address, forward / reverse direction, and 14 / 28/ 128 speed steps). if you are using DC, there is no real solution as using a DCC decoder on a non-DCC system rarely works properly and I say that with Tons of experience trying to solve that problem.

I hope this will help to point you toward success. The QSI decoder is a truly great decoder if used with a good system. 

Regards,
Nick Kulp


Re: Decoderstopping

John Burkhardt
 

The reason I asked was because the symptom is exactly when the address is stored twice in the CS as we experience often with DIGITRAX due to bad housekeeping.

 

Thanks and warm regards,

 

John Burkhardt

South Africa

where the sun always shines,

and steam still reigns!

 

 

 

 

From: QSIndustries@groups.io [mailto:QSIndustries@groups.io] On Behalf Of Ray Di Ciacca via groups.io
Sent: 24 March 2021 02:14 PM
To: QSIndustries@groups.io
Subject: Re: [QSIndustries] Decoderstopping

 

NCE. I have another QSI DECODER THAT WORKS OK



On Mar 24, 2021, at 2:17 AM, John Burkhardt <burkhj@...> wrote:



Ray, what DCC system are you using?

 

John Burkhardt 

South Africa 

wher the Sun always shines, 

and steam still reigns!

 

Sent from my Galaxy

 

 

-------- Original message --------

From: Ray Di Ciacca <raydiciacca@...>

Date: 2021/03/23 21:11 (GMT+02:00)

Subject: [QSIndustries] Decoderstopping

 

As QSI does not want to communicate with me, maybe someone can help.I received my decoder and installed it as your diagram. The unit worked fine for maybe one min. then stoped. It restarted and ran about three feet and stopped. this continued, so I removed it from the track. I placed it on a test track and got the same thing. When it stopped I measured the voltage on the track and at the input plug on the board and measured 14.8 volts AC, but no output or sound. After I finally got it going again it stopped again and I found out it hardest itself to factory settings. when I started it again it started all over again.
 I then removed the decoder and  cleaned all wheels and wire contact points, then replaced it with another brand decoder and it ran smoothly with no problems.
 I then removed that decoder and wired it for strait DC. Again it ran with no problems.
 This seems to tell me that there is some problem with the QSI decoder.
 I would like to resolve this mater as it has been going on for almost a year
Sincerely  RayI 
 
 I then removed that decoder and wired it for strait DC. Again it ran with no problems.
 This seems to tell me that there is some problem with the QSI decoder.
 I would like to resolve this mater as it has been going on for almost a year
Sincerely  Ray

--
John Burkhardt
South Africa
Where the sun always shines
and Steam still reigns!


--
John Burkhardt
South Africa
Where the sun always shines
and Steam still reigns!


Re: Decoderstopping

Ray Di Ciacca
 

NCE. I have another QSI DECODER THAT WORKS OK


On Mar 24, 2021, at 2:17 AM, John Burkhardt <burkhj@...> wrote:


Ray, what DCC system are you using?

John Burkhardt 
South Africa 
wher the Sun always shines, 
and steam still reigns!

Sent from my Galaxy


-------- Original message --------
From: Ray Di Ciacca <raydiciacca@...>
Date: 2021/03/23 21:11 (GMT+02:00)
To: QSIndustries@groups.io
Subject: [QSIndustries] Decoderstopping

As QSI does not want to communicate with me, maybe someone can help.I received my decoder and installed it as your diagram. The unit worked fine for maybe one min. then stoped. It restarted and ran about three feet and stopped. this continued, so I removed it from the track. I placed it on a test track and got the same thing. When it stopped I measured the voltage on the track and at the input plug on the board and measured 14.8 volts AC, but no output or sound. After I finally got it going again it stopped again and I found out it hardest itself to factory settings. when I started it again it started all over again.
 I then removed the decoder and  cleaned all wheels and wire contact points, then replaced it with another brand decoder and it ran smoothly with no problems.
 I then removed that decoder and wired it for strait DC. Again it ran with no problems.
 This seems to tell me that there is some problem with the QSI decoder.
 I would like to resolve this mater as it has been going on for almost a year
Sincerely  RayI 
 
 I then removed that decoder and wired it for strait DC. Again it ran with no problems.
 This seems to tell me that there is some problem with the QSI decoder.
 I would like to resolve this mater as it has been going on for almost a year
Sincerely  Ray
--
John Burkhardt
South Africa
Where the sun always shines
and Steam still reigns!


Re: Decoderstopping

John Burkhardt
 

Ray, what DCC system are you using?

John Burkhardt 
South Africa 
wher the Sun always shines, 
and steam still reigns!

Sent from my Galaxy


-------- Original message --------
From: Ray Di Ciacca <raydiciacca@...>
Date: 2021/03/23 21:11 (GMT+02:00)
To: QSIndustries@groups.io
Subject: [QSIndustries] Decoderstopping

As QSI does not want to communicate with me, maybe someone can help.I received my decoder and installed it as your diagram. The unit worked fine for maybe one min. then stoped. It restarted and ran about three feet and stopped. this continued, so I removed it from the track. I placed it on a test track and got the same thing. When it stopped I measured the voltage on the track and at the input plug on the board and measured 14.8 volts AC, but no output or sound. After I finally got it going again it stopped again and I found out it hardest itself to factory settings. when I started it again it started all over again.
 I then removed the decoder and  cleaned all wheels and wire contact points, then replaced it with another brand decoder and it ran smoothly with no problems.
 I then removed that decoder and wired it for strait DC. Again it ran with no problems.
 This seems to tell me that there is some problem with the QSI decoder.
 I would like to resolve this mater as it has been going on for almost a year
Sincerely  RayI 
 
 I then removed that decoder and wired it for strait DC. Again it ran with no problems.
 This seems to tell me that there is some problem with the QSI decoder.
 I would like to resolve this mater as it has been going on for almost a year
Sincerely  Ray
--
John Burkhardt
South Africa
Where the sun always shines
and Steam still reigns!


Decoderstopping

Ray Di Ciacca
 

As QSI does not want to communicate with me, maybe someone can help.I received my decoder and installed it as your diagram. The unit worked fine for maybe one min. then stoped. It restarted and ran about three feet and stopped. this continued, so I removed it from the track. I placed it on a test track and got the same thing. When it stopped I measured the voltage on the track and at the input plug on the board and measured 14.8 volts AC, but no output or sound. After I finally got it going again it stopped again and I found out it hardest itself to factory settings. when I started it again it started all over again.
 I then removed the decoder and  cleaned all wheels and wire contact points, then replaced it with another brand decoder and it ran smoothly with no problems.
 I then removed that decoder and wired it for strait DC. Again it ran with no problems.
 This seems to tell me that there is some problem with the QSI decoder.
 I would like to resolve this mater as it has been going on for almost a year
Sincerely  RayI 
 
 I then removed that decoder and wired it for strait DC. Again it ran with no problems.
 This seems to tell me that there is some problem with the QSI decoder.
 I would like to resolve this mater as it has been going on for almost a year
Sincerely  Ray

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