Date   

Re: Multiple LEDs on FX-DO

peteski7
 

Hello Joó,
While I can't help with the decoder specific question, I have commend on the LEDs.

Instead of hooking up the LEDs in series, requiring rather high voltage., why not hook them up in parallel (with each LED having its own current limiting resistor)?  Yes, the wiring is slightly more complex, but not impossible.  Resistor (a small SMD 0603 or 0805 size) could be installed directly at the LED's lead, so you woudl just need 2 wires for the string of LEDs.
While the typical operating current for larger size white LEDs is often specified 20mA, most smaller SMD LEDs (0402, 0603, 0805 size) have operating current of 5mA.  Either way, even 5mA is often too bright for applications other than headlights. Often 2mA (or even less current) produces realistic brightness.  With that in mind, you could easily run a string of parallel-connected LEDs using standard function output, and the decoder's common positive power (either 5 or 12V).

As far as creating an external source of positive voltage (the blue wire), you can build a very simple circuit that will do that.


Instead of using 2 discrete diodes, there are pairs of common-cathode diodes in a 3-pin packages available to simplify the construction.
Peteski


Re: Multiple LEDs on FX-DO

kjlovesya
 

Hi Joo,

  Sorry, the decoder is not for sale.  I have a locomotive in which I want to install the decoder.  

  I'm not sure that we have the same decoder.  I just checked, mine is the Titan FX-O.  # 670-0200.    My top board has two banks of 8 pin connectors, labeled P1 and P2,  totaling 16 wires =  12 functions, 2 X +5 V and 2 X GND wires.  

  Did you do a query on what version you have?  You can use CV 64 to query CV 7 .    POM --> CV 64 = 7    The decoder should speak the version number.

  Also, you can check build information.   See the big 483 page manual on page 393.

  Pages 410 and 411 show light port to feature mapping CVs.

  Try a reset, cycle the power, then do a query of each light feature.   Then assign the correct light to each port.   If you have a computer attached to an NCE system you can use the CV Manager to do the same.

  I'll have a look tomorrow and see if I can wire the decoder to some kind of test fixture.  It's not yet installed in a locomotive.  It may take a while.

Best regards,
KJ


Re: Multiple LEDs on FX-DO

Joó Ferenc
 

Hello KJ,

Thanks. Is your FX-DO for sale?

Now down to the point. I understand all what you said and will look for a solution to operate more than one LEDs on one port, under the condition that I can actually get the decoder ports working!

My problem is that the ports are all messed up by default, as it seems, and I can't get them to work the way I want.

There is, of course, no manual for the FX-DO and it's impossible to figure out what function is assigned to what port.

Now this probably wouldn't normally be a problem but my Quantum Programmer also developed a fault recently and I can't get it to work. Thus I tried manual programming of CVs.

I reset the decoder, I set all the values of all the CVs shown in the Feature to Port Mapping table of Quantum CV Manager to zero, so in theory no lights should be operating. And still I have some lights that are on. Then I try to assign features to a certain port but they are not in the sequence as the pins on the decoder. This is what I could identify so far:

pin2 = port 4
pin3 = port 3
pin5 = port 1
pin6 = port 8
-------------------
pin9 = port 5,

where the first two pins on each 6-pin connector are GND and 5V+, thus I call pins 3-8 of the first connector as pins 1-6 and pins 3-8 of the second connector as pins 7-12.

So I am trying to figure out for example what port is assigned to pin 4. I have no feature assigned to anywhere and try to set, say, step lights to pin 4. I try all the values from 1 to 12 on CV 115.113.0 and the single light attached to that pin will not be on for any of those values.

This just drives me crazy, I thought I could at least manually figure out what pin corresponds to what port but no such luck...

KJ, do you think you could perhaps see what function output pin on your FX-DO corresponds to what port?

Thank you.

Üdvözlettel,
Best regards,
MfG,

Ferenc Joó
Correspondent for Hungary
TREU - Today's Railways Europe
IRJ - International Railway Journal
GSM:   +36204141621

NOHAB Apartment
8263 Badacsonytördemic
Debreczenyi u. 9. / HUNGARY
"The holiday apartment on Lake Balaton
with its own garden railway!"


kjlovesya via groups.io <kjlovesya=yahoo.ca@groups.io> ezt írta (időpont: 2021. febr. 14., V, 19:48):

Hello Joo,

  Sorry about your name spelling.  I don't know how to type accents on my keyboard.

  I have a new in box Titan FX-DO and just had a quick look.   There is a error on the drawing for the bottom board.  Perhaps Kelly could have a look at this.   Connector P2 is mislabeled "TRUCKS";  when, in fact, only pins 1 and 2 are for the trucks (as are the schematically parallel P1 pins 1 and 2).   Connector P2, pins 3 and 4 are to be connected to the motor (as are the schematically parallel P1, pins 3 and 4).

  That being said, the wires from P1 are labeled correctly.

  If you look at the bottom of the bottom board, you will notice a large black box component with a hole in the middle.   That is a heavy duty, full wave bridge rectifier.   If you understand how a bridge rectifier works you will know that the voltage across the + and - side (output) is track voltage minus 1.4 volts.   In your case you will have 24 V - 1.4 V = 22.6 V total.

  Kelly recommends using an opto-isolator between the lighting and the top board.   This is the safest route as the expensive decoder board is protected.  The input side of an opto- isolator is internally similar to an LED.  You connect one side to plus +5 V and the other is connected to the decoder light port via a current limiting resistor.  The output side of the opto-isolator can then be used as a simple switch.  N.B. the isolated circuit, controlled by the output of the opto-isolator, must have the GND connected to the GND of the controlling circuit (the "-" side of the full wave bridge rectifier - same as the top board P1 - 8 and P2 - 8).

  A note about LEDs in series.   While red LEDs run around 2 volts,  white LED takes about 3 volts to turn on (some actually take 3.1 or 3.2 V to turn on).  Current controls the brightness.   That's why it's absolutely mandatory that a current limiting resistor be included in any LED circuit.   A +5 volt circuit can only drive one (3 Volt) LED.  However, a +22.6 Volt circuit can drive up to seven LEDs; 3 V X 7 = total 21 Volts (which is less than 22.6 Volts leaving room for the current limiting resistor). 

  We must choose our maximum current for the LEDs.    Most electronics engineers recommend a current maximum of 20 mA.  I use varied current depending on the LED function.   Headlights are brighter than ground lights.  For Headlights I might use 15 mA (very bright) while a ground light might only require 2 mA (considerably dimmer).

  Let's do some math.  Please excuse the simplicity, but this is a forum and our audience may not know how to calculate resistance:

e.g.    22.6 V  -  ( X  3 V)  =  1.6 V        We now use Ohm's law to figure out the resistor value for a 2mA circuit.       Volts = Amps X Ohms    or  Ohms = Volts / Amps

    1.6 V = 0.002 Amp X Ohms   or    Ohms = 1.6 V / 0.002      We get 800 Ohms.   If we don't have the exact value resistor we choose a value slightly larger.  We can use 1000 Ohms (1K Ohm, 1/8 Watt) with no problems.   


  If you decide to add more LEDs, you may add a second series circuit in parallel with the above series circuit.   Use the same formulas adjusting for quantity of LEDs in the series circuits.


  I hope this helps.   Let us know if you have any questions (or corrections).


Best regards,
KJ


Re: Multiple LEDs on FX-DO

kjlovesya
 

Hello Joo,

  Sorry about your name spelling.  I don't know how to type accents on my keyboard.

  I have a new in box Titan FX-DO and just had a quick look.   There is a error on the drawing for the bottom board.  Perhaps Kelly could have a look at this.   Connector P2 is mislabeled "TRUCKS";  when, in fact, only pins 1 and 2 are for the trucks (as are the schematically parallel P1 pins 1 and 2).   Connector P2, pins 3 and 4 are to be connected to the motor (as are the schematically parallel P1, pins 3 and 4).

  That being said, the wires from P1 are labeled correctly.

  If you look at the bottom of the bottom board, you will notice a large black box component with a hole in the middle.   That is a heavy duty, full wave bridge rectifier.   If you understand how a bridge rectifier works you will know that the voltage across the + and - side (output) is track voltage minus 1.4 volts.   In your case you will have 24 V - 1.4 V = 22.6 V total.

  Kelly recommends using an opto-isolator between the lighting and the top board.   This is the safest route as the expensive decoder board is protected.  The input side of an opto- isolator is internally similar to an LED.  You connect one side to plus +5 V and the other is connected to the decoder light port via a current limiting resistor.  The output side of the opto-isolator can then be used as a simple switch.  N.B. the isolated circuit, controlled by the output of the opto-isolator, must have the GND connected to the GND of the controlling circuit (the "-" side of the full wave bridge rectifier - same as the top board P1 - 8 and P2 - 8).

  A note about LEDs in series.   While red LEDs run around 2 volts,  white LED takes about 3 volts to turn on (some actually take 3.1 or 3.2 V to turn on).  Current controls the brightness.   That's why it's absolutely mandatory that a current limiting resistor be included in any LED circuit.   A +5 volt circuit can only drive one (3 Volt) LED.  However, a +22.6 Volt circuit can drive up to seven LEDs; 3 V X 7 = total 21 Volts (which is less than 22.6 Volts leaving room for the current limiting resistor). 

  We must choose our maximum current for the LEDs.    Most electronics engineers recommend a current maximum of 20 mA.  I use varied current depending on the LED function.   Headlights are brighter than ground lights.  For Headlights I might use 15 mA (very bright) while a ground light might only require 2 mA (considerably dimmer).

  Let's do some math.  Please excuse the simplicity, but this is a forum and our audience may not know how to calculate resistance:

e.g.    22.6 V  -  ( X  3 V)  =  1.6 V        We now use Ohm's law to figure out the resistor value for a 2mA circuit.       Volts = Amps X Ohms    or  Ohms = Volts / Amps

    1.6 V = 0.002 Amp X Ohms   or    Ohms = 1.6 V / 0.002      We get 800 Ohms.   If we don't have the exact value resistor we choose a value slightly larger.  We can use 1000 Ohms (1K Ohm, 1/8 Watt) with no problems.   


  If you decide to add more LEDs, you may add a second series circuit in parallel with the above series circuit.   Use the same formulas adjusting for quantity of LEDs in the series circuits.


  I hope this helps.   Let us know if you have any questions (or corrections).


Best regards,
KJ


Multiple LEDs on FX-DO

Joó Ferenc
 

I have a couple of the Titan FX-DO decoders designed for O scale but am using them in two G scale SD45 locos as the 8 Amp peak (4 Amp continuous) is plenty enough to drive them. 

However, that's just it, as I am having trouble configuring the lights, so I am driving without the lights.

The FX-DO has two 8-pin connectors, each of which have 6 function ports, a ground and a 5 Volt + pin.

The Titan is great as has separate step lights and truck light outputs. However, usually you need to add 4 LEDs for both, or in the case of step lights, you have a few along the catwalk around the loco. In my case, I added two more step lights to where there are steps at the cab doors, so I would need 9 LEDs to be driven from the same port.

Sadly, 5 Volts are not even enough to drive two LEDs for say tail lights and Kelly suggested to use an opto isolator and a separate device for power, to drive any consumer that need a higher voltage or power.

I guess it is not wise to connect the LEDs to the track + port as then the function ports will receive track voltage which in my case is 24 Volts, and that will likely damage the decoder.

Now I know that there are some decoder manufacturers who have 5V+, 10V+ and track voltage + on their decoder (like Zimo and I think ESU, too) but I presume this is not the case with the Titan FX-DO. Would anyone have any knowledge on this, please?

Any suggestions on how to connect say 9 step lights to the FX-DO? Obviously I furst need to split them in two circuits as 24 Volts wouldn't be enough for 9 LEDs if they all need like 3 Volts each.

Thanks.

Üdvözlettel,
Best regards,
MfG,

Ferenc Joó
Correspondent for Hungary
TREU - Today's Railways Europe
IRJ - International Railway Journal
GSM:   +36204141621

NOHAB Apartment
8263 Badacsonytördemic
Debreczenyi u. 9. / HUNGARY
"The holiday apartment on Lake Balaton
with its own garden railway!"


Re: wiring diagram

kjlovesya
 

Hi Paul,

  I highly recommend first downloading and reading the smaller Revolution - U User's manual.   Many of the Titan connections are the same as the Revolution's connections.   I find, for someone new to QSI, it a little less complicated.  The knowledge base can then be built upon with the added information from the other manuals.

  Also, Nick mentioned the blue wire.   Technically, the unregulated blue wire (most people call it +12 Volts) is whatever track voltage minus the voltage drop of a full wave bridge rectifier (1.4 Volts).   Our club has it's track voltage set at 12 Volts so the actual voltage on the unregulated blue wire is 12 - 1.4 = 10.6 Volts.   Since it's unregulated, if the track voltage wavers the blue wire voltage wavers as well. 

  The red with white striped wire is a regulated (steady) + 5 Volts.


Have fun!


KJ


Re: Where is the official download site for CVManager and Quantum Upgrade programs?

peteski7
 

Thanks for answering my questions Greg.

Peteski


Re: Where is the official download site for CVManager and Quantum Upgrade programs?

Greg Elmassian
 

I'm trying to work with Josh on some details about the production of the G scale Titan. That's all I will say on that subject at the moment.

Realize that he had sound files for more than the Revolution and Titan G, so your questions about sound files should be answered, remember that the other decoders are support and sold by QS Industries.

Also I asked about CV Manager and Quantum Update, both written, updated, and maintained by QS Industries.

I am in discussions with QS Industries about the future of the Titan series, and again that is all I will say now.

I will state I am pursuing the possibility of a business venture between myself and the "QSI entities".

I still have a number of Titan decoders.

Greg


Re: wiring diagram

Nick
 

 Paul,

The wiring diagram is on the shedaker web page. I suggest you download the PDF Installation guide.
https://209775f7-f46c-4729-9d78-7cc0c3414b15.filesusr.com/ugd/0f7119_a38d120ba23640d5878a0849026aee26.pdf

The Titan manual has a complete explanation of the wiring with colors. The "normal" P1 connector side with the 8-pin DCC plug is the DCC standard for every decoder that follows NMRA standards, The second harness has the 4 speaker wires for the Stereo outputs and lighting and function outputs. The wire colors like Violet / Red are a BASE color of Violet and a TRACE color of Red. 

The "Ports" are lighting / Function outputs so if you use P1 Purple and P1 Blue, the output would be a 14 VDC (or higher) output. If you use  P1 Purple and P2 Red / White, you have a 5 VDC output. This is what most folks use for LEDs with the appropriate resistor. If you use the Blue output, the LED becomes a flashbulb.

One word of caution. When wiring up your decoder, be VERY careful of the speaker wires. If you have power to the rails and one of them touches the rail while the decoder is connected to the loco, The end result will be a nasty smell, lots of smoke, occasionally some flames, and a worthless decoder with a hole in it. Don't ask how I know this. Any unused port wires should be clipped so NO bare wire is exposed at the end, especially if you are installing the decoder in a BRASS loco. Brass or metal frames are great conductors. Kapco tape is your friend. Wrap the ends during the installation and testing.

P1 wiring 

RED = Right Rail
Black = Left Rail
Orange = Motor (+)
Gray = Motor (-)
Yellow = Rear light (-)
White = Front Light (-)
Blue = DCC (+) (14V or higher)
Green = Port 3
Purple = Port 4

P2 Wiring

Violet / Red = Speaker 1 (+)
Violet / Black = Speaker 1 (-)
Violet / Green = Speaker 2 (-)
Violet / Yellow = Speaker 2 (+)
White / Green = Port 5
White / Blue = Port 6
White / Violet = Port 7
White / Grey = Port 8
Orange / White = Port 9
Yellow / White = Port 10
Red / White = +5V for LED output
Tan = Chuff Cam
Pink = Hard reset for reed switch
Black / White = Ground

Regards,
Nick Kulp
QSI Beta Tester since the beginning.


Re: wiring diagram

Paul B/Indy
 

Sweet!  Thanks to all y’all for the help!  Great group!

Paul


On Jan 31, 2021, at 8:43 PM, kelly dorf <kelly.dorf@...> wrote:

Hi Guys,

Here it is.

Kelly
QSI <Quantum Titan FX-U WIRING DIAGRAM.pdf>


Re: wiring diagram

kelly dorf
 

Hi Guys,

Here it is.

Kelly
QSI


Re: wiring diagram

Ed.Sauers
 

On 1/31/2021 6:43 PM, Ed.Sauers via groups.io wrote:

Paul,

It's there, try this link. then select the install guide.

https://shedaker.wixsite.com/shedaker/revolution-era-documents

Once there select the product tab, then select HO sound and power decoder,

you want the install guide.

Ed Sauers



Ed Sauers

On 1/31/2021 4:39 PM, Paul B/Indy wrote:
Good day.  I have purchased a new (from QSI) Titan-U decoder with Winton 201a sound.  However, there was no information of any kind sent with it, and the mass of wires emanating from the end are intimidating to me.  I have looked on both the QSI site and this Group IO site, and I do find Titan-A, but not U, diagrams.  Can anyone help me with what the wires control?

It has a normal 8 pin plug on the input side.  No issue there.

TIA

Paul Brown
Indy

PS - I did find the 468 page manual, but it has no wiring diagram that I found





Re: wiring diagram

Lou
 

Check your email. Lou


On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 5:57 PM Paul B/Indy <atsfpb@...> wrote:
Good day.  I have purchased a new (from QSI) Titan-U decoder with Winton 201a sound.  However, there was no information of any kind sent with it, and the mass of wires emanating from the end are intimidating to me.  I have looked on both the QSI site and this Group IO site, and I do find Titan-A, but not U, diagrams.  Can anyone help me with what the wires control?

It has a normal 8 pin plug on the input side.  No issue there.

TIA

Paul Brown
Indy

PS - I did find the 468 page manual, but it has no wiring diagram that I found





Re: wiring diagram

Ed.Sauers
 

Paul,

It's there, try this link. then select the install guide.

https://shedaker.wixsite.com/shedaker/revolution-era-documents

Once there select the product tab, then select HO sound and power decoder,

you want the install guide.

Ed Sauers



Ed Sauers

On 1/31/2021 4:39 PM, Paul B/Indy wrote:
Good day.  I have purchased a new (from QSI) Titan-U decoder with Winton 201a sound.  However, there was no information of any kind sent with it, and the mass of wires emanating from the end are intimidating to me.  I have looked on both the QSI site and this Group IO site, and I do find Titan-A, but not U, diagrams.  Can anyone help me with what the wires control?

It has a normal 8 pin plug on the input side.  No issue there.

TIA

Paul Brown
Indy

PS - I did find the 468 page manual, but it has no wiring diagram that I found





Re: wiring diagram

michael DUNNINGTON
 

Paul and others:
Update — yesterday I found out that the previous owner apparently programmed my locomotive so it WOULD NOT work on DC. A friend who runs DCC fixed that for me, and loco ran fine for me when I got home. However, today I’m having issues again. I’ll keep trying. At least, I found out it doesn’t have a cracked gear.
Michael

On Jan 31, 2021, at 4:57 PM, Paul B/Indy <atsfpb@gmail.com> wrote:

Good day. I have purchased a new (from QSI) Titan-U decoder with Winton 201a sound. However, there was no information of any kind sent with it, and the mass of wires emanating from the end are intimidating to me. I have looked on both the QSI site and this Group IO site, and I do find Titan-A, but not U, diagrams. Can anyone help me with what the wires control?

It has a normal 8 pin plug on the input side. No issue there.

TIA

Paul Brown
Indy

PS - I did find the 468 page manual, but it has no wiring diagram that I found




Re: wiring diagram

Paul B/Indy
 

Good day. I have purchased a new (from QSI) Titan-U decoder with Winton 201a sound. However, there was no information of any kind sent with it, and the mass of wires emanating from the end are intimidating to me. I have looked on both the QSI site and this Group IO site, and I do find Titan-A, but not U, diagrams. Can anyone help me with what the wires control?

It has a normal 8 pin plug on the input side. No issue there.

TIA

Paul Brown
Indy

PS - I did find the 468 page manual, but it has no wiring diagram that I found


Re: BLI Locomotive that won't move

 

Michael: How about an update? Have you resolved the problem?
Morgan F Bilbo, DCS50, UT4D, UR93, SPROGIIv4, JMRI 4.20, Pennsy modeler 1952


Re: Where is the official download site for CVManager and Quantum Upgrade programs?

peteski7
 

Thanks for that info Gregg
The description of your "other" group states:
"Hi, this a forum I started so we have a QSI Solutions forum that is controlled by the QSI solutions people. I'm working with Josh to manage the last of the stock of decoders, and am looking into what it would take to make more of the G scale Titan. Note this is QSI Solutions, not QS Industries"

That is interesting.  I thought that Josh Shedaker was totally out of the picture. No?  Your group's description seems to indicate that he is still involved with OSI decoders?  If so, then you and him probably have the latest in the sound files for all the decoders and Quantum Programmer.  Not sure then why you are asking where to find the latest versions (other than is on Josh's website).

To be honest, having two separate companies managing a line of sound decoders is a bit awkward, but it is what it is.  It is not your doing either.  MAybe that is the reason QSI and QSI-S ended up where it is now - at what it seems to be a dead end.  Those Revolution and Titan decoders were way ahead of its time when they were developed.  I can't even imagine what the next generation woudl look like if the company thrived instead of fading away.  I suspect thay woudl give ESU and ZIMO run for their money.

I'm still amazed at the functionality and programmability of the Revolution decoder in my Walthers//Life-Like N scale 2-8-8-2 loco.  The 400+ pages manual clearly speaks to that decoder's capabilities. And that was back about 14 years ago!  That decoder still has the most accurate BEMF-synched chuffs from any other sound decoder I have worked with.

Peteski


On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 05:18 PM, Greg Elmassian wrote:
Well, if you use the "find or create group" at the top of the page, and put QSI in the search, you would find: https://groups.io/g/QSI-Solutions

Greg


Re: Where is the official download site for CVManager and Quantum Upgrade programs?

Greg Elmassian
 

Well, if you use the "find or create group" at the top of the page, and put QSI in the search, you would find: https://groups.io/g/QSI-Solutions

Greg


Re: Where is the official download site for CVManager and Quantum Upgrade programs?

Jay Beckham
 

Greg

 

Where is the QSI Solution Group you manage?

 

Thanks

 

Jay Beckham

 

My Blog https://jaysoscalelayout.blogspot.com/

 

Join us at JayOScaleLayout+subscribe@groups.io

 

From: QSIndustries@groups.io <QSIndustries@groups.io> On Behalf Of Greg Elmassian
Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2021 9:40 PM
To: QSIndustries@groups.io
Subject: Re: [QSIndustries] Where is the official download site for CVManager and Quantum Upgrade programs?

 

[Edited Message Follows]

This software is used for all QSI updates, the Titans are current manufacture, right? (O scale one is for sale on their site.)

So, based on the many updates for these 2 programs, I find it hard to believe there have been no updates in the years since Josh went away.

Sure would like a comment from a QS Industries employee.

Greg

P.S. I uploaded the latest versions of the 2 programs to the QSI Solutions group, which I manager. All are welcome to join.

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