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Re: Questions on using CV 51.15 System Pitch Shift

Greg Elmassian
 

DCC is an old standard, when memory was expensive, so things are in binary instead of ASCII characters.

The indexing system to get more "variables" is again an old limitation.

Nowadays this could all be done in normal characters.

Of course the solution is to use a high level graphic interface program like CVManager. Many of the decoder manufacturers who have complex functions have a nice computer program to set things for the non computer science people.

I'm surprised no one suggested CVManager here.

Greg


Re: Questions on using CV 51.15 System Pitch Shift

peteski7
 

Unfortunately this example shows that the manual is written for people familiar with low-level computer "speak". Things like bits, bytes, and signed and unsigned binary numbers.  Then all the indexed CVs do not make things easier to understand things either.  While many of the QSI users are computer-literate, and we take understanding all that for granted, there are QSI users out there who do not have this "computer speak" mastered.

Looking at this thread, it makes it painfully clear to me how someone like that would see the QSI manual as bunch of gibberish.  But QSI is not the only company with this problem. Other companies' manuals also often require a computer science degree to understand. 

Peteski


Re: Questions on using CV 51.15 System Pitch Shift

Dave Robinson
 

Yeah, more or less.  Since one bit in the byte is taken by the sign, then the largest number the rest of the bits can hold is 127 (yeah that's close to 128), so the most pitch shifting you can get is + or - 127.

Dave in Edmonton, AB


Re: Questions on using CV 51.15 System Pitch Shift

kjlovesya
 

Whew!   Yes, I think you have it.   :-)


Best regards,
KJ

P.S. The K is for Ken not Steve.


Re: Questions on using CV 51.15 System Pitch Shift

Bruce
 

Thank you Dave and kjlovesya (is it Steve?)  I think this is starting to make sense.  Am I correct to say the extent to which the pitch is decreased or increased is a function of whether the value you set CV 51, when added to the sum of weights of the lesser bits, is >= 128, or is <128.  Am I saying that right, in layman's terms?


Re: QS-3000 Manual Anyone?

bkobernus@sbcglobal.net <bkobernus@...>
 

Thanks Doug. Just what I was looking for.


Re: QS-3000 Manual Anyone?

Douglas Kier
 



On Thursday, December 10, 2020, 11:43:29 AM EST, bkobernus@... <bkobernus@...> wrote:


Does anyone have a .pdf copy of the manual for QS-3000 board?  I have the Quick Start guide, but would also like the Manual.
Wanna do some programming to MTH O gauge ProtoSound locomotives.

Thanks,

Bill K


Re: Questions on using CV 51.15 System Pitch Shift

kjlovesya
 

Bruce,

  Dave's answer is correct.   I would like to add a little clarification to the bit 7 issue.

  Please bear with me.  I'll try to write this for everyone to understand - even those who have no idea how a computer operates (your decoder is a miniature computer).


Bits and Bytes:   A bit is a simple switch (On or Off).  On is equal to logic 1 and Off is equal to logic 0.

e.g.   Bit 0 = 0 means the bit is turned Off.   Bit 0 = 1 means the bit is turned On.


  If one arranges 8 Bits together that equals one Byte.    Engineers always start counting from number 0 so the first bit is labelled Bit 0.

  In a Byte we write Bit 0 at the extreme right and call it the least significant bit.


e.g.         Bit 7    Bit 6    Bit 5    Bit 4    Bit 3    Bit 2    Bit 1    Bit 0      = 8 Bits (0 - 7 remember we start counting at 0)



The value of each bit is either logic 1 or logic 0.   Binary means counting by twos.   Each bit's weight is twice the weight of the bit to it's right.
  The weight of Bit 0 is 1.  The weight of Bit 1 is double the weight of the preceding bit, therefore the weight of Bit 1 is 2.   The weight of Bit 2 is double that of the preceding Bit.  The weight of Bit 2 is 4. etc.

e.g.         Bit 7    Bit 6    Bit 5    Bit 4    Bit 3    Bit 2    Bit 1    Bit 0      = 8 Bits (remember we start counting at 0)
weight     128     64        32       16        8         4          2          1

Add up all the weights and you get 255.   The value of the Byte is the sum of the Bit weights.   That's why many of the C.V. values are between 0 - 255.      Many C.V.s are  basically the value of one Byte.

If a value of the CV 3 = 0  then all the bits will be written as logic 0.

e.g.         Bit 7    Bit 6    Bit 5    Bit 4    Bit 3    Bit 2    Bit 1    Bit 0      = 8 Bits (remember we start counting at 0)
value          0        0         0         0         0         0          0         0

If the value of the C.V. 3 = 2   then Bit 1 will be written as a logic 1


weight     128     64        32       16        8         4          2          1

e.g.         Bit 7    Bit 6    Bit 5    Bit 4    Bit 3    Bit 2    Bit 1    Bit 0      = 8 Bits (remember we start counting at 0)
value          0        0         0         0         0         0          1         0




If the value of CV 3 = 17  then Bit 0 is logic 1 and Bit 4 is logic 1.

weight     128     64        32       16        8         4          2          1


e.g.         Bit 7    Bit 6    Bit 5    Bit 4    Bit 3    Bit 2    Bit 1    Bit 0      = 8 Bits (remember we start counting at 0)
value          0        0         0         1         0         0          0         1

Add the weights of the bits with a value of logic 1 to determine the value of the Byte.


Negative numbers:
  If required, some C.V.s need a positive or a negative value.  Picture a balance control on a stereo where the center is 0.   Left speaker is less than 0 (negative) and Right speaker is greater than 0.
  In order for engineers to get negative numbers they simply use the most significant (left most) Bit as a negative sign.   In our example if Bit 7 is 0, the sum of the bits the the right are positive.     If Bit 7 is 1, the sum of the bits to the right are negative.

  A value of zero is zero so the sign (negative or positive) doesn't matter.  Therefore 0 is the same as 128. 

  However, numbers between 128 up to and including 255 have logic 1 for Bit 7.   Therefore each number above 128 is a negative value.

  Since Bit 7 is logic 1,  In order to determine the negative value of this type of C.V. we simply add the weight of the less significant bits (bits 0 - 6). 

weight     128     64        32       16        8         4          2          1


e.g.         Bit 7    Bit 6    Bit 5    Bit 4    Bit 3    Bit 2    Bit 1    Bit 0      = 8 Bits (remember we start counting at 0)
value         1       0         0         0         0         0          0         0           = indicates negative number in this case


If we write the weight of 129 to our CV:

weight     128     64        32       16        8         4          2          1


e.g.         Bit 7    Bit 6    Bit 5    Bit 4    Bit 3    Bit 2    Bit 1    Bit 0      = 8 Bits (remember we start counting at 0)
value          1       0         0         0         0         0          0         1

Then our CV has a value of - 1.


If our CV has a weight of 138

weight     128     64        32       16        8         4          2          1


e.g.         Bit 7    Bit 6    Bit 5    Bit 4    Bit 3    Bit 2    Bit 1    Bit 0      = 8 Bits (remember we start counting at 0)
value          1       0         0         0         1         0          1        0

Our CV now has a value of - 10. (the sum of Bits 0 - 6)

I hope this helps.

Best regards,
KJ



 


QS-3000 Manual Anyone?

bkobernus@sbcglobal.net <bkobernus@...>
 

Does anyone have a .pdf copy of the manual for QS-3000 board?  I have the Quick Start guide, but would also like the Manual.
Wanna do some programming to MTH O gauge ProtoSound locomotives.

Thanks,

Bill K


Re: Questions on using CV 51.15 System Pitch Shift

Dave Robinson
 

Bruce,
The "D"s mean "data". That is, one bit of sign and seven bits of data, typical of byte-size computer numbers.


> [Is 0 the default for CV 51.15 or for Bit 7?]

Default for the whole byte is zero including the sign bit 7.  If only the sign bit defaulted to zero, well what would be the default for the other 7 bits?


> [Can you use a similar command to shift just the horn pitch?

No, there is no pitch shift for individual sounds, only for the overall sound system.


> 2.  Set CV 51 to 188 to specify the pitch shift.  [In this example, they don't explicitly say, put a "1" in bit 7 to indicate a negative or decrease in pitch, but I assume that's what you do?]

As explained in the book's example, a value of 188 equals data(60) + sign(128), 60+128=188.  So 188 implies the sign bit =1 meaning 'decrease'.  You don't have to "explicitly" set sign bit to 1, you've already done that with "188".
"188" is simply the number you see/set on your keypad while programming the CV.  You don't have access to individual bits when programming CVs so you have to figure out the necessary 8-bit value to accomplish what you want; that's the 188.


> I tried to change CV 15 bit  7 to a "1" in my NCE Pro-cab but it didn't seem to take.

You tried to change "CV 15"?  Wrong!
QSI's CV notation is 'CV # <dot> Primary Index value [and if needed, <dot> Secondary Index value]'.
So CV51.15 is nothing to do with CV15; it's CV49(the Primary Index) gets a value of 15, then CV51(the desired CV) gets the pitch shift value you want (in that order, NOT 51 then 49).

Dave in Edmonton,AB


Questions on using CV 51.15 System Pitch Shift

Bruce
 

My questions are in Brackets [ ].  Page 113 of the August 5, 2015 NMRA Quantum Technical Reference Manual, available for pdf download on the web, provides the following: 
CV 51.15  System Pitch Shift. This CV shifts the system sound sample rate from the normal samples per second. (Version 9 firmware is 15,625 per second.)  Default Value = 0.  [Is 0 the default for CV 51.15 or for Bit 7?]

Bit 7: sign; Bit 6: D6; Bit 5: D5; Bit 4: D4; Bit 3: D3;  Bit 2: D2; Bit 1: D1; Bit 0: D0 [I assume bit 7 "sign" mean put a 0 for positive and "1" for negative?   What do the D's mean?  I assume we leave 0's in all but bit 7].

- CV 51.15 can have any value from -127 to +127 where positive values will increase the pitch and negative values will decrease the pitch.  A positive value is indicated by a 0 in bit 7 while a "1" indicates a negative value.
- To specify a negative pitch shift, add 128 to the unsigned pitch shift value.  For example, to specify a pitch shift down of 60 samples per second, add 128 to 60 to obtain 188.
- Each unit represents a shift of 4 samples per second.  For example, a value of 10 increases the pitch by 40 samples per second.
- Use CV 51.15 to change the pitch of similar locomotives in a consist so that each locomotive produces a distinct sound.

Example:  Pitch shift the system sample rate down 60 samples per second:
1.  Set CV 49 to 15 to select the system pitch shift register.  [Can you use a similar command to shift just the horn pitch?  Someone mentioned a "slider" in version 9 - not sure where that is and how you get to that.]
2.   Set CV 51 to 188 to specify the pitch shift.  [In this example, they don't explicitly say, put a "1" in bit 7 to indicate a negative or decrease in pitch, but I assume that's what you do?]

Anyone have any enlightenment on this process?  I tried to change CV 15 bit  7 to a "1" in my NCE Pro-cab but it didn't seem to take.









Re: Obtaining horn type from a Milwaukee Road Proto F7 69C, Quantum Software

Bruce
 

I'll try that.  Thanks, Dave.


Re: CV settings for realistic operation in Emulator diesels

Bruce
 

QSI way back use to have very accurate sound files for the Nathan M.  In recent years their M5's sound like P5's.  Same with Tsunami.  Here are Nathan M5 whistle sounds I'm trying to reproduce.
1. Ignore the kids and steamer and wait for the Southern M5 to blow in this vid:
Southern 6133 - YouTube 
Here's another good example.
M5 Horn Show: Wabash 1189 Leads NS Holiday Train Through Niantic - YouTube


Re: Adding a keep alive to BLI SW7

Roger Kujawa <kujawa61550@...>
 

Here is the attachment points for a keep alive.  I hope your board is the same.
Roger Kujawa
Morton, Illinois. 

Inline image

Inline image



Re: Adding a keep alive to BLI SW7

viaductmandlw
 

Thanks Chris! I will take a close look at the h bridge and figure it out. If no luck the TCS is a good option I will go after


From: QSIndustries@groups.io <QSIndustries@groups.io> on behalf of Chris Atkins <chris@...>
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 3:39:21 PM
To: QSIndustries@groups.io <QSIndustries@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [QSIndustries] Adding a keep alive to BLI SW7
 
Hi viaductmandlw,

Yes, I have done it on 3 BLI SW7s. 

One seems to be running better, one had a little effect and one was still so bad I finally gave up and replaced it with a TCS Wowsound. 

It's been a few years, but the method I remember using was to find the 12V DC across the rectifier diodes and solder each lead to the correct side of the diodes. These nodes also have the big electrolytic cap on them, but the doedes were a lot easier to access on the top of the board. I referenced a few places that discussed soldering keepalives to early sound decoders.

I think the reason it didn't work as well as I had hoped has to do with how QSI generated the supply rails for the motor driver. I was hoping to find a nice regulated 12V rail on the input of the H-bridge, but I don't think I was able to locate one. 

I like these locomotives because they are very heavy and pull well, but every little piece of dust causes the decoder to lose power and resets the sound. At least adding the keepalives as I described keeps the sound up as you push the engine through any dirty track. 

Anyway, your mileage may vary. 

Good luck,

Chris Atkins
Argyle, TX




On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 at 07:41, viaductmandlw <popectsw@...> wrote:
Has anyone attempted to add a keep alive to a nw2 or SW7? I have a TCS that can fit in the cab but can't figure where to solder to? Thanks Curt Pope


Re: Adding a keep alive to BLI SW7

Chris Atkins
 

Hi viaductmandlw,

Yes, I have done it on 3 BLI SW7s. 

One seems to be running better, one had a little effect and one was still so bad I finally gave up and replaced it with a TCS Wowsound. 

It's been a few years, but the method I remember using was to find the 12V DC across the rectifier diodes and solder each lead to the correct side of the diodes. These nodes also have the big electrolytic cap on them, but the doedes were a lot easier to access on the top of the board. I referenced a few places that discussed soldering keepalives to early sound decoders.

I think the reason it didn't work as well as I had hoped has to do with how QSI generated the supply rails for the motor driver. I was hoping to find a nice regulated 12V rail on the input of the H-bridge, but I don't think I was able to locate one. 

I like these locomotives because they are very heavy and pull well, but every little piece of dust causes the decoder to lose power and resets the sound. At least adding the keepalives as I described keeps the sound up as you push the engine through any dirty track. 

Anyway, your mileage may vary. 

Good luck,

Chris Atkins
Argyle, TX




On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 at 07:41, viaductmandlw <popectsw@...> wrote:
Has anyone attempted to add a keep alive to a nw2 or SW7? I have a TCS that can fit in the cab but can't figure where to solder to? Thanks Curt Pope


Adding a keep alive to BLI SW7

viaductmandlw
 

Has anyone attempted to add a keep alive to a nw2 or SW7? I have a TCS that can fit in the cab but can't figure where to solder to? Thanks Curt Pope


Re: Older QSI decoder

Marc Malnekoff
 

Have you tried doing a reset? And then reprogramming on your programming track?
I recently got 3 used Proto2000 units that needed new gears and one had similar after the reset and reprogramming it works fine now.
Marc



Sent from my Galaxy


-------- Original message --------
From: PennsyNut <fan4pennsy@...>
Date: 11/29/20 3:44 PM (GMT-06:00)
To: QSIndustries@groups.io
Subject: Re: [QSIndustries] Older QSI decoder

I must update and re-try for help! The loco was sitting on the track. And when I pushed it by hand, it rolled. I immediately figured the gears were broken. So I took it to a LHS where they replaced the gears and such. Brought it home, set it on the track and ? nothing. The engine makes noise. But no lights,bell,whistle and certainly not run. I then with the SPROG,JMRI & DecoderPro reset the decoder. I used the xml file that I had last used. Nothing changed. I've sent an email to the LHS and await the response. ? Did they even test it? But for now, can anyone enlighten me on what went wrong and what to do about it? Please!
Morgan F Bilbo, DCS50, SPROGIIv4, JMRI 4.20, Pennsy modeler 1952


Re: Older QSI decoder

Dave Hastings
 

What brand of loco is it, if I know what it is, maybe I can help.

Dave Hastings


On Sunday, November 29, 2020, 04:44:41 PM EST, PennsyNut <fan4pennsy@...> wrote:


I must update and re-try for help! The loco was sitting on the track. And when I pushed it by hand, it rolled. I immediately figured the gears were broken. So I took it to a LHS where they replaced the gears and such. Brought it home, set it on the track and ? nothing. The engine makes noise. But no lights,bell,whistle and certainly not run. I then with the SPROG,JMRI & DecoderPro reset the decoder. I used the xml file that I had last used. Nothing changed. I've sent an email to the LHS and await the response. ? Did they even test it? But for now, can anyone enlighten me on what went wrong and what to do about it? Please!
Morgan F Bilbo, DCS50, SPROGIIv4, JMRI 4.20, Pennsy modeler 1952


Re: Older QSI decoder

 

I must update and re-try for help! The loco was sitting on the track. And when I pushed it by hand, it rolled. I immediately figured the gears were broken. So I took it to a LHS where they replaced the gears and such. Brought it home, set it on the track and ? nothing. The engine makes noise. But no lights,bell,whistle and certainly not run. I then with the SPROG,JMRI & DecoderPro reset the decoder. I used the xml file that I had last used. Nothing changed. I've sent an email to the LHS and await the response. ? Did they even test it? But for now, can anyone enlighten me on what went wrong and what to do about it? Please!
Morgan F Bilbo, DCS50, SPROGIIv4, JMRI 4.20, Pennsy modeler 1952

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