Topics

QSX radio feature requests

Alan de G1FXB
 

Being mindful of Hans statement in the QSX preliminary info thread.
I read that as:- LEAVE ME TO IT.....

Now even before the first Kit ships.... Perhaps we should at least just see what the final specification is actually stated to be?


Perhaps limit ourselves initially to Brain storming & Feature request only for topics that CANNOT be otherwise solved by other means ?
LF/ MF, VHF and beyond use. Chances are transverter designs exist, suitable products are available cheaply off ebay's shelves that will satisfy most and a "standard" 10 Band HF QSX will make a potential exciter.
Exotic user interfaces and specific controls, via CAT interface

The QRP Labs mantra is:-
     Maximum performance, for the least cost..
It's tempting to make the QSX  a swiss army knife of radio's
We all have our own wish list, how does yours fit as being a QRP Labs product....

(When the Jr. techs are old enough we can get them interested in LF and +VHF operation
and they can kit some deluxe transverters that will work with their fathers QSX design.
It will not be many years.....)

The Summers family will go down in radio history.


Alan

Hans Summers
 

Hi Alan, all

I am enjoying the discussion on LF, VHF proposals. All nice ideas and perhaps in time, some can be made reality.

It is useful to remind ourselves that designing and producing a 10-band 160 to 10m all-mode radio kit is not exactly a trivial task. It is not easy even for a large company with large teams of proper electronic engineees at their disposal. 

The task does not become any easier when you are planning to deliver very high performance and a long list of functionality, and simultaneously at a very low price. 

Nothing even CLOSE to this level of perfomance-and-features to price ratio has EVER before been offered. Nothing like this is available now, nor ever has been. 

QSX will be a first. The task is very very difficult already. If this was easy at least someone would have done it already. So I'd like to keep it initially as described, 160-10m. 

However, I have already designed in expansion capabilities, both in hardware and in software; and there is physical space available. 

Therefore whilst an all-in-one-box walking talking 2200m to 2m all-mode transceiver with 7-inch graphic OLED screen and a rear panel full of different connectors and interfaces is not likely to be possible at this price... I CAN imagine future expansion modules, and/or future QSX variants, which do cover many of the requests and ideas.

73 Hans G0UPL 

On Wed, Aug 22, 2018, 16:03 Alan de G1FXB via Groups.Io <g1fxb=yahoo.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
Being mindful of Hans statement in the QSX preliminary info thread.
I read that as:- LEAVE ME TO IT.....

Now even before the first Kit ships.... Perhaps we should at least just see what the final specification is actually stated to be?


Perhaps limit ourselves initially to Brain storming & Feature request only for topics that CANNOT be otherwise solved by other means ?
LF/ MF, VHF and beyond use. Chances are transverter designs exist, suitable products are available cheaply off ebay's shelves that will satisfy most and a "standard" 10 Band HF QSX will make a potential exciter.
Exotic user interfaces and specific controls, via CAT interface

The QRP Labs mantra is:-
     Maximum performance, for the least cost..
It's tempting to make the QSX  a swiss army knife of radio's
We all have our own wish list, how does yours fit as being a QRP Labs product....

(When the Jr. techs are old enough we can get them interested in LF and +VHF operation
and they can kit some deluxe transverters that will work with their fathers QSX design.
It will not be many years.....)

The Summers family will go down in radio history.


Alan

Roy Appleton
 

Amen!

Roy
WA0YMH

On Wed, Aug 22, 2018, 9:56 AM Hans Summers <hans.summers@...> wrote:
Hi Alan, all

I am enjoying the discussion on LF, VHF proposals. All nice ideas and perhaps in time, some can be made reality.

It is useful to remind ourselves that designing and producing a 10-band 160 to 10m all-mode radio kit is not exactly a trivial task. It is not easy even for a large company with large teams of proper electronic engineees at their disposal. 

The task does not become any easier when you are planning to deliver very high performance and a long list of functionality, and simultaneously at a very low price. 

Nothing even CLOSE to this level of perfomance-and-features to price ratio has EVER before been offered. Nothing like this is available now, nor ever has been. 

QSX will be a first. The task is very very difficult already. If this was easy at least someone would have done it already. So I'd like to keep it initially as described, 160-10m. 

However, I have already designed in expansion capabilities, both in hardware and in software; and there is physical space available. 

Therefore whilst an all-in-one-box walking talking 2200m to 2m all-mode transceiver with 7-inch graphic OLED screen and a rear panel full of different connectors and interfaces is not likely to be possible at this price... I CAN imagine future expansion modules, and/or future QSX variants, which do cover many of the requests and ideas.

73 Hans G0UPL 

On Wed, Aug 22, 2018, 16:03 Alan de G1FXB via Groups.Io <g1fxb=yahoo.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
Being mindful of Hans statement in the QSX preliminary info thread.
I read that as:- LEAVE ME TO IT.....

Now even before the first Kit ships.... Perhaps we should at least just see what the final specification is actually stated to be?


Perhaps limit ourselves initially to Brain storming & Feature request only for topics that CANNOT be otherwise solved by other means ?
LF/ MF, VHF and beyond use. Chances are transverter designs exist, suitable products are available cheaply off ebay's shelves that will satisfy most and a "standard" 10 Band HF QSX will make a potential exciter.
Exotic user interfaces and specific controls, via CAT interface

The QRP Labs mantra is:-
     Maximum performance, for the least cost..
It's tempting to make the QSX  a swiss army knife of radio's
We all have our own wish list, how does yours fit as being a QRP Labs product....

(When the Jr. techs are old enough we can get them interested in LF and +VHF operation
and they can kit some deluxe transverters that will work with their fathers QSX design.
It will not be many years.....)

The Summers family will go down in radio history.


Alan


Alan de G1FXB
 

Amen! +1

Ethernet please....   ;-)


Alan


On 22/08/2018 15:58, Roy Appleton wrote:
Amen!

Roy
WA0YMH

On Wed, Aug 22, 2018, 9:56 AM Hans Summers <hans.summers@...> wrote:
Hi Alan, all

I am enjoying the discussion on LF, VHF proposals. All nice ideas and perhaps in time, some can be made reality.

It is useful to remind ourselves that designing and producing a 10-band 160 to 10m all-mode radio kit is not exactly a trivial task. It is not easy even for a large company with large teams of proper electronic engineees at their disposal. 

The task does not become any easier when you are planning to deliver very high performance and a long list of functionality, and simultaneously at a very low price. 

Nothing even CLOSE to this level of perfomance-and-features to price ratio has EVER before been offered. Nothing like this is available now, nor ever has been. 

QSX will be a first. The task is very very difficult already. If this was easy at least someone would have done it already. So I'd like to keep it initially as described, 160-10m. 

However, I have already designed in expansion capabilities, both in hardware and in software; and there is physical space available. 

Therefore whilst an all-in-one-box walking talking 2200m to 2m all-mode transceiver with 7-inch graphic OLED screen and a rear panel full of different connectors and interfaces is not likely to be possible at this price... I CAN imagine future expansion modules, and/or future QSX variants, which do cover many of the requests and ideas.

73 Hans G0UPL 

On Wed, Aug 22, 2018, 16:03 Alan de G1FXB via Groups.Io <g1fxb=yahoo.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
Being mindful of Hans statement in the QSX preliminary info thread.
I read that as:- LEAVE ME TO IT.....

Now even before the first Kit ships.... Perhaps we should at least just see what the final specification is actually stated to be?


Perhaps limit ourselves initially to Brain storming & Feature request only for topics that CANNOT be otherwise solved by other means ?
LF/ MF, VHF and beyond use. Chances are transverter designs exist, suitable products are available cheaply off ebay's shelves that will satisfy most and a "standard" 10 Band HF QSX will make a potential exciter.
Exotic user interfaces and specific controls, via CAT interface

The QRP Labs mantra is:-
     Maximum performance, for the least cost..
It's tempting to make the QSX  a swiss army knife of radio's
We all have our own wish list, how does yours fit as being a QRP Labs product....

(When the Jr. techs are old enough we can get them interested in LF and +VHF operation
and they can kit some deluxe transverters that will work with their fathers QSX design.
It will not be many years.....)

The Summers family will go down in radio history.


Alan


Fred Piering
 

Hans:
FOCUS. Finish what you started, in the manner you intended.
All the other stuff can come later.
And, walk out of the corporate headquarters at 5 pm and spend time with your wife and children!
Sincerely
Fred
WD9HNU


On 8/22/2018 10:56 AM, Hans Summers wrote:
Hi Alan, all

I am enjoying the discussion on LF, VHF proposals. All nice ideas and perhaps in time, some can be made reality.

It is useful to remind ourselves that designing and producing a 10-band 160 to 10m all-mode radio kit is not exactly a trivial task. It is not easy even for a large company with large teams of proper electronic engineees at their disposal. 

The task does not become any easier when you are planning to deliver very high performance and a long list of functionality, and simultaneously at a very low price. 

Nothing even CLOSE to this level of perfomance-and-features to price ratio has EVER before been offered. Nothing like this is available now, nor ever has been. 

QSX will be a first. The task is very very difficult already. If this was easy at least someone would have done it already. So I'd like to keep it initially as described, 160-10m. 

However, I have already designed in expansion capabilities, both in hardware and in software; and there is physical space available. 

Therefore whilst an all-in-one-box walking talking 2200m to 2m all-mode transceiver with 7-inch graphic OLED screen and a rear panel full of different connectors and interfaces is not likely to be possible at this price... I CAN imagine future expansion modules, and/or future QSX variants, which do cover many of the requests and ideas.

73 Hans G0UPL 

On Wed, Aug 22, 2018, 16:03 Alan de G1FXB via Groups.Io <g1fxb=yahoo.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
Being mindful of Hans statement in the QSX preliminary info thread.
I read that as:- LEAVE ME TO IT.....

Now even before the first Kit ships.... Perhaps we should at least just see what the final specification is actually stated to be?


Perhaps limit ourselves initially to Brain storming & Feature request only for topics that CANNOT be otherwise solved by other means ?
LF/ MF, VHF and beyond use. Chances are transverter designs exist, suitable products are available cheaply off ebay's shelves that will satisfy most and a "standard" 10 Band HF QSX will make a potential exciter.
Exotic user interfaces and specific controls, via CAT interface

The QRP Labs mantra is:-
     Maximum performance, for the least cost..
It's tempting to make the QSX  a swiss army knife of radio's
We all have our own wish list, how does yours fit as being a QRP Labs product....

(When the Jr. techs are old enough we can get them interested in LF and +VHF operation
and they can kit some deluxe transverters that will work with their fathers QSX design.
It will not be many years.....)

The Summers family will go down in radio history.


Alan


Paul Harrison
 

I'll second that.

Paul DJ0CU

Alan de G1FXB
 

Hi Ken,
As you took the time out to write directly
and spend time so nicely formatting it....
It's only correct I should take the time out to see if you ever posted anything on the forum.
I did really.... I couldn't find anything?
Maybe you used a different user ID??
CC'd it to the forum anyway.

Gee, I'm not the QRP Labs "Police" but as you point out:-
nothing more than a sanity check is sometimes in order.  :-)

 

 Alan

On 22/08/2018 17:27, Ken N9VV wrote:
Hi Alan,
*Thank you* for your note of "sanity" asking the group to back off with all their requests for QSX "features" !!

Inside my head I am an "experimenter and early-adopter builder" <LOL>
Here are some thoughts about my latest experimental feature set:

( )  There is no standard cable interface to my Espresso Maker

( )  The Earth continues to rotate bringing bright sunshine and then darkness into my work-area on a 12hr cycle.

( )  My feet stink.

( )  The new YaeComWoodTek radio has 34 knobs and switches

( )  Future communication calls for 1m, 99.7m, and .03m bands

( )  With the success of FT8, we must be ready for FT9, FT10...FT99

( )  GPS is 40 yrs old  - the new rig must prepare for Pulsar timing

( )  Oh, did I mention that the new Terahertz bands are showing great promise?

72/73 de Ken N9VV

ajparent1/KB1GMX
 

Let us not try and bestow a herd of elephants to eat before he
enjoys the first one.

From a perspective of someone from the industry. 
  The first question I'd ask is how many want that?
  
Hans needs to do a lot of work (and recover!) and right now I believe
the 40M unit is first on the list and I'll want one no question.  Likely
the 10 bander after that.   For the patient there is a lot in the pipe.

Allison

KE0GYC
 

Personally, I would be a fan of keeping it simple.  I'm no RF engineer, but it seems that more complexity will add more cost and more things to break.

I am REALLY excited about this radio.  I think it could be built into a really excellent portable radio for SOTA, and the ability to natively use PSK31 is really neat, especially at this price point.  A kit build like this could also have a TON of neat options for building into a case, too.

Kees T
 

Several years ago, one of the AQRP members developed a standalone transceiver for PSK-31 and later added SSB. It utilized the HobbyPCB Transceiver as the RF frontend and a STM32F746G for the microcontroller and color display. The interface between the two is I/Q signals and it's all DSP . It works pretty well according to Charley, W5BAA. I think that one is also a pretty darn good design point.

He made a Power Point presentation at Austin Summerfest one year.

73 Kees K5BCQ

Kees T
 

Here is Charley's most recent summary..............

73 Kees K5BCQ

Rick Barnich
 

All,
I am a casual follower of this forum and was excited to see the QSX announcement. The ink was hardly dry and the requests for additional features started pouring in.
If you recall, when the QCX was announced a year ago, it was after the product had been supplied to a youth forum and hasn't changed much since that time. 

You will also notice that the revelation of the QSX come after it's introduction to the same group a year later. Hans has developed the product along the same track as the QCX. In this case, the announced product is a single band tranceiver, with multiband capability to follow. I doubt that the QSX will vary much from what Hans has already divulged. 

I am with you in encouraging the simplicity of the QSX at the expense of numerous additional  features. I have over 40 years experience doing embedded systems design and programming. The problems and delays were always caused by changes and new features.

Hans is clearly a master at getting the most bang for the buck. 

To Hans I would say, thank you for keeping your eye on the ball.

73, Rick  KA8BMA

Dave VE3LHO
 

From: Rick Barnich
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2018 09:53:21 PDT

...

The problems and delays were always caused by changes and new features.

I would 2nd that: feature churn has delayed and killed more than one, otherwise good, product.

Dave VE3LHO

Fred Piering
 

from 50 years as an electrical engineer:
The latest "improvement" is always the source of the newest problem.
If you want an all band, all mode, transceiver with internal ATU and Battery, Elecraft will be more than happy to take your loose $1,500.00
72
Fred
WD9HNU


On 8/23/2018 3:18 PM, Dave VE3LHO wrote:

From: Rick Barnich
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2018 09:53:21 PDT

...

The problems and delays were always caused by changes and new features.

I would 2nd that: feature churn has delayed and killed more than one, otherwise good, product.

Dave VE3LHO

Braden Glett
 

I'd like it to be able to operate my toaster too, if possible.

KEN G4APB
 

All excited future kit builders,
hey, when did we ever get to put our dreams and desires for a rig into the early days of design  with any of the 'bigger' manufacturers where we were listened to and got to discuss with similar minded persons?? This is a unique time for us all. 

Hans knows what is easy and what is not to implement. Some good ideas have been aired that he may not have thought of. Doesn't even need to do marketing research!  I am sure this new rig will be another best seller, Love the idea it can come with a case too.

73 Ken G4APB



Hans Summers
 

Hi Ken

Yes! The suggestions are all very useful! A couple of the requests were a bit far out. But many were new ideas, and very much appreciated. I'm sure that many will make their way into the design, either in the beginning or later, given some time. 

73 Hans G0UPL 


On Aug 24, 2018 09:39, "KEN G4APB via Groups.Io" <lfoofui.nbz42=ntlworld.com@groups.io> wrote:
All excited future kit builders,
hey, when did we ever get to put our dreams and desires for a rig into the early days of design  with any of the 'bigger' manufacturers where we were listened to and got to discuss with similar minded persons?? This is a unique time for us all. 

Hans knows what is easy and what is not to implement. Some good ideas have been aired that he may not have thought of. Doesn't even need to do marketing research!  I am sure this new rig will be another best seller, Love the idea it can come with a case too.

73 Ken G4APB



Alan de G1FXB
 

Hi Hans,

All non-binding and waving a white flag...  :-)


Perhaps as a fork off the how big case question.

The idea of a full featured radio for trails is a big plus,

however DSP horsepower my consume more than just CPU cycles.

Have you indicative figures so far for current drawn RX and for example 1w, 5w,10w on any band of your choice?


Alan


On 24/08/2018 09:12, Hans Summers wrote:


Yes! The suggestions are all very useful! A couple of the requests were a bit far out. But many were new ideas, and very much appreciated. I'm sure that many will make their way into the design, either in the beginning or later, given some time. 

73 Hans G0UPL 






Roger Hill
 

My two cents.


There has been  discussion about battery packs, and ATU's.

If the case could be designed so it could mate with a similarly sized (in width, or depth if mating to the side would be easier) case that would hold the batteries and/or ATU, those two components could be a separate, later project, that would simply plug into the existing case. 


So for example, (showing my age), a DB 25 male could plug into a similar female on the side of the QSX, passing through all the power feeds, and maybe the RF (not sure if that would work), and whatever switching lines might be needed.


So you build your QSX, you build your battery/ATU, and simply plug the two boxes together.


I'm not precluding the need for possible internal wiring changes in the QSX, although it would be better if there were none..the act of plugging in the second component made all the right connections come alive..so then you could run 'standalone' or 'mated' without having to go inside either box...


Even one on one side, one on the other... making TWO projects to be sold separately.

Just a thought.


73

G3YTN

Roger



---
***************************
Roger Hill
***************************


On 2018-08-24 10:34, Alan de G1FXB via Groups.Io wrote:

Hi Hans,

All non-binding and waving a white flag...  :-)


Perhaps as a fork off the how big case question.

The idea of a full featured radio for trails is a big plus,

however DSP horsepower my consume more than just CPU cycles.

Have you indicative figures so far for current drawn RX and for example 1w, 5w,10w on any band of your choice?


Alan


On 24/08/2018 09:12, Hans Summers wrote:

 
Yes! The suggestions are all very useful! A couple of the requests were a bit far out. But many were new ideas, and very much appreciated. I'm sure that many will make their way into the design, either in the beginning or later, given some time. 
 
73 Hans G0UPL 





Chris Wilson
 

Hello QRPLabbers,

Friday, August 24, 2018

I read a lot of posts where whoopsies in the builds occur and people
struggle to remove IC's for replacement, does the design lend itself
to have all or most IC's socketed for easy replacement or for those
times when removal may aid circuit testing?

I would value Allison's opinion on how important FET lead lengths and
trace routing and widths, and those of FET driver IC's remain at LF
and MF as I am fond of experimenting "down there", particularly with
Class D amps. I suspect it is still important as gate and drain
traces seem to respond to careful minimisation of lead lengths and
usage of wide traces.

Good luck, an amazing project, even for ones as talented as Hans and
Allison!




--

2E0ILY
Best regards,
Chris mailto:chris@...



--
Best regards, Chris Wilson (2E0ILY)

Alan G4ZFQ
 

So for example, (showing my age), a DB 25 male
Roger,

Better a 36 pin Centronics with quick-release spring clips:-)

73 alan G4ZFQ

Roger Hill
 

Jeez, now you're talking!

As it happens, I'm about to retire in a couple of weeks. Was planning to talk about IBM machines with 4K of real iron core memory, 8 inch floppies, hard-sectored 5-inch floppies, removable disk packs, and the 'power loss' emergency head retract mechanisms, 7-hole fan fold paper tape etc. And the time I assembled a Data General Nova..after two days of putting stuff in racks and cabling it, opened the last box (a big one) and it had a piece of paper in saying - do this first!

Remember 'bus and tag' cables to printers and the like - must have been almost 100 wires in those.

Cheers
Roger



---
***************************
Roger Hill
***************************

On 2018-08-24 11:58, Alan G4ZFQ wrote:
So for example, (showing my age), a DB 25 male
Roger,
Better a 36 pin Centronics with quick-release spring clips:-)
73 alan G4ZFQ

ajparent1/KB1GMX
 

On Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 02:54 AM, Chris Wilson wrote:
I would value Allison's opinion on how important FET lead lengths and
trace routing and widths, and those of FET driver IC's remain at LF
and MF as I am fond of experimenting "down there", particularly with
Class D amps. I suspect it is still important as gate and drain
traces seem to respond to careful minimisation of lead lengths and
usage of wide traces.
Its very simple, IF you want long leads stay near DC.  Look leads for high current
fast rise time pulses are essentially no different hat upper HF to VHF CW signals. 

Think of this way would you intentionally put a choke in series with the three legs?
Of course not but yet many don't consider a 40nh lead as important.

I've used those driver ICs to 13.56mhz.

More of same for wide traces and ground planes.

Or from a different view point Hans did it right and it works to VHF.

Allison

Hans Summers
 

Chris

Another way to look at it: even if you may argue that the LF does not care so much about a little longer wires, you are usually dealing with MOSFET devices like the IRF510 which have plenty of gain even up into the VHF region. Layout problems could create HF or VHF instabilities even in an LF amplifier.

As for sockets for chips, many are SMD that are pre-soldered by the factory. Two which are through-hole are the 8-pin dual op-amp used for microphone amps, and the 2W stereo audio output amplifier IC. I suppose you could socket them. One could argue that the heat dissipation capability of the output amp IC might be a little compromized by a socket.

73 Hans G0UPL 

On Fri, Aug 24, 2018, 15:04 ajparent1/KB1GMX <kb1gmx@...> wrote:
On Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 02:54 AM, Chris Wilson wrote:
I would value Allison's opinion on how important FET lead lengths and
trace routing and widths, and those of FET driver IC's remain at LF
and MF as I am fond of experimenting "down there", particularly with
Class D amps. I suspect it is still important as gate and drain
traces seem to respond to careful minimisation of lead lengths and
usage of wide traces.
Its very simple, IF you want long leads stay near DC.  Look leads for high current
fast rise time pulses are essentially no different hat upper HF to VHF CW signals. 

Think of this way would you intentionally put a choke in series with the three legs?
Of course not but yet many don't consider a 40nh lead as important.

I've used those driver ICs to 13.56mhz.

More of same for wide traces and ground planes.

Or from a different view point Hans did it right and it works to VHF.

Allison

Braden Glett
 

I use the tiny and inexpensive automatic antenna tuner from elecraft with my QCX. Works great!

Alan de G1FXB
 

Hi Roger / All,


just brain storming on something that not a crowd developed project...
I too were thinking of the radio enclosure for home base
and a separate matching "support enclosure" bungee'd together for the trail approach.
I'm sure Hans would agree to selling us a blank enclosure, no work getting it cut and drilled, and economies of scale for QRP labs.
Then at a later date....?

Bringing out switching lines?
We know the QSX will be modular, without a doubt there will be an "Internal Bus" however it MAY not be as discrete as what we would like.
We may have to hack a decoder.

            (What is your idea using the switching for? AMU / ATU?
            Existing auto atu designs already exist, many use a ATmega 328 etc many utilise one of the Arduino formats.
            Will direct control from the QSX bring anything extra.
            (possibly direct recall from previous memory without needing to first sniff the RF, but beyond that it still has to remeasure the current VSWR,
            but at the cost of consuming firmware space from users who don't utilise this feature)

            Anything so long as it's not reinventing the wheel?
            However if QRP Labs offered for instance a pneumatic tyre to their ATU to replace the solid rubber.
            (I still have a wood rimmed wheel (switches and knobs on my ATU....))

Bumped by the other Alan, it's not Centronics.
Cannon did a modular range at one time that mixed the classic D connector F&M shells with other style "Pins" there were 14 gauge(ish) for high current and certainly 1/2/3 miniature coax options.
I think we sourced from Farnell in the 90's. They may have died a death by now??

Likewise If you need any 8" or 5 1/4"  floppies I have a few CPM
and 3" Floppy drives, not a typo. Just an example of when "Standards" are less than....
Looks like we all have being there.....:-)

Alan

On 24/08/2018 10:47, Roger Hill wrote:

My two cents.


There has been  discussion about battery packs, and ATU's.

If the case could be designed so it could mate with a similarly sized (in width, or depth if mating to the side would be easier) case that would hold the batteries and/or ATU, those two components could be a separate, later project, that would simply plug into the existing case. 


So for example, (showing my age), a DB 25 male could plug into a similar female on the side of the QSX, passing through all the power feeds, and maybe the RF (not sure if that would work), and whatever switching lines might be needed.


So you build your QSX, you build your battery/ATU, and simply plug the two boxes together.


I'm not precluding the need for possible internal wiring changes in the QSX, although it would be better if there were none..the act of plugging in the second component made all the right connections come alive..so then you could run 'standalone' or 'mated' without having to go inside either box...


Even one on one side, one on the other... making TWO projects to be sold separately.

Just a thought.


73

G3YTN

Roger



---
***************************
Roger Hill
***************************


On 2018-08-24 10:34, Alan de G1FXB via Groups.Io wrote:

Hi Hans,

All non-binding and waving a white flag...  :-)


Perhaps as a fork off the how big case question.

The idea of a full featured radio for trails is a big plus,

however DSP horsepower my consume more than just CPU cycles.

Have you indicative figures so far for current drawn RX and for example 1w, 5w,10w on any band of your choice?


Alan


On 24/08/2018 09:12, Hans Summers wrote:

 
Yes! The suggestions are all very useful! A couple of the requests were a bit far out. But many were new ideas, and very much appreciated. I'm sure that many will make their way into the design, either in the beginning or later, given some time. 
 
73 Hans G0UPL 





ajparent1/KB1GMX
 

On Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 06:34 AM, Braden Glett wrote:
I use the tiny and inexpensive automatic antenna tuner from elecraft with my QCX. Works great!
I have the T1 portable autotuner, from Elecraft as do several friends.  fun kit and good product.
Seems to run forever on a single 9V battery.

One yabut, its really a QRP product and ~10W is the upper limit.  I would like to see a similar unit
for about 25W maybe just a bit larger.  SGC has one, the 211 but its more costly.

A simple auto tunner is not complex, SWR sensor, usually 7-8 relays for the inductance and 
7-8 relays for the capacitance,  and one to select what end the cap(s) does on.   The format is
a series L and parallel C, L network.  Arduino level MPU is enough.

Allison

Glenn
 

The K3NG ATU lends itself to home brew.   And changes to the power level required. My own build I estimate at around 20-30W and uses smd 2-3kV caps (overkill) and the usual relay switching of L&C. Two relays are used to switch the ends for L-C or C-L. I used standard relays, not latching, due to cost here in VK. Control board uses a NANO with a 0.96" OLED display.

vk3pe


Chuck, N1KGY
 

On Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 06:58 AM, Alan G4ZFQ wrote:
Better a 36 pin Centronics with quick-release spring clips:-)
AKA the original SCSI cabinet interconnect.  I'm sure I still have a box full of those...  somewhere  ;P

BTTTAH, modular gets my vote - battery pack and ATU in a separate enclosure (same L/W dimensions), with a built-in charge controller for LiPO/LiFEPO batteries, please.  For mating the two enclosures, I'm thinking something like the latches on my Wilderness Sierra would be ideal.  I found the manufacturer, SouthCo.  Here's a link to the product page for that line of low-profile latches - https://www.southco.com/en-us/07

Thanks,
Chuck

Arv Evans
 

Glen

The K3NG ATU is an interesting design but uses several relays.  That is fine for automation
purposes, but I wonder if the design could be reproduced with a handful of DPDT rocker or
toggle switches replacing the relays.  Maybe there needs to be 2 versions of this well thought
out design, one that is automated and another that is manual for low current draw and increased
battery life for portable use.

Arv
_._


On Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 6:27 PM Glenn <glennp@...> wrote:
The K3NG ATU lends itself to home brew.   And changes to the power level required. My own build I estimate at around 20-30W and uses smd 2-3kV caps (overkill) and the usual relay switching of L&C. Two relays are used to switch the ends for L-C or C-L. I used standard relays, not latching, due to cost here in VK. Control board uses a NANO with a 0.96" OLED display.

vk3pe


J68HZ
 

Woah, wait.  Toggle switches to replace the relays???!!!!  So how do you propose that would work… do a binary search towards a low SWR solution?  That reminds me of loading the operating system into an ATARI 8080 system using front panel switches…  could take forever and a few days.  If you are worried about current draw, go with latching relays.  Back in March, I bought several hundred latching relays for $0.89 each… yes they can be had cheap if you buy them right from the source.

 

 

Dr. William J. Schmidt - K9HZ J68HZ 8P6HK ZF2HZ PJ4/K9HZ VP5/K9HZ PJ2/K9HZ

 

Owner - Operator

Big Signal Ranch – K9ZC

Staunton, Illinois

 

Owner – Operator

Villa Grand Piton – J68HZ

Soufriere, St. Lucia W.I.

Rent it: www.VillaGrandPiton.com

Like us on Facebook! facebook icon

 

Moderator – North American QRO Group at Groups.IO.

 

email:  bill@...

 

 

From: QRPLabs@groups.io [mailto:QRPLabs@groups.io] On Behalf Of Arv Evans
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2018 8:18 PM
To: QRPLabs@groups.io
Subject: Re: [QRPLabs] QSX radio feature requests

 

Glen

The K3NG ATU is an interesting design but uses several relays.  That is fine for automation

purposes, but I wonder if the design could be reproduced with a handful of DPDT rocker or

toggle switches replacing the relays.  Maybe there needs to be 2 versions of this well thought

out design, one that is automated and another that is manual for low current draw and increased

battery life for portable use.

Arv
_._

 

On Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 6:27 PM Glenn <glennp@...> wrote:

The K3NG ATU lends itself to home brew.   And changes to the power level required. My own build I estimate at around 20-30W and uses smd 2-3kV caps (overkill) and the usual relay switching of L&C. Two relays are used to switch the ends for L-C or C-L. I used standard relays, not latching, due to cost here in VK. Control board uses a NANO with a 0.96" OLED display.

vk3pe


Virus-free. www.avg.com

Kelly Jack
 

Bill,

How are going with your tuner project?

Regards


Simon
VK3ELH

J68HZ
 

Hardware is done and…and  I must say it works extremely well.  One of the best projects I’ve ever designed.  I’m Just waiting/ helping Jack with his JackAl project so that I can coerce him into helping me with the coding for this project.  As designed, it can work as an integrated-to-a-radio 100W tuner, or just stand-alone.  Speaks several languages to do that.  What I particularly like about it is that is tunes in less than a second worst case (even with my kludgy excuse for code).  Stay tuned.  It’s still on target for $35 or less.  Probably will be selling kits at Dayton next year.

 

I can’t post on the uBITx group any more so I guess you’ll hear it here first!

 

 

Dr. William J. Schmidt - K9HZ J68HZ 8P6HK ZF2HZ PJ4/K9HZ VP5/K9HZ PJ2/K9HZ

 

Owner - Operator

Big Signal Ranch – K9ZC

Staunton, Illinois

 

Owner – Operator

Villa Grand Piton – J68HZ

Soufriere, St. Lucia W.I.

Rent it: www.VillaGrandPiton.com

Like us on Facebook! facebook icon

 

Moderator – North American QRO Group at Groups.IO.

 

email:  bill@...

 

 

From: QRPLabs@groups.io [mailto:QRPLabs@groups.io] On Behalf Of Kelly Jack
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2018 9:34 PM
To: QRPLabs@groups.io
Subject: Re: [QRPLabs] QSX radio feature requests

 

Bill,

How are going with your tuner project?

Regards


Simon
VK3ELH


Virus-free. www.avg.com

ajparent1/KB1GMX
 

This seems to be splattered across three groups!.

QRPkits made the SLT.  I have one.  Its very slow to setup and a bit annoying.
If you've been tough it a few times its easy to get the last known setting... 
Its hard to know when your getting close as a little to either side and
the SWR is high.

The basic design was about the same coils and caps in powers of 2.
It also means for 7 coils and 7 caps 15 switches with 15th to select
which end the cap is at.  255 possible combinations. 

Automation is good.  Use latching relays and put the cpu to sleep when
done (Arduino can  do that).

Allison

Alan de G1FXB
 

Hi Glenn / All,
That's a tidy looking build.

Another arduino flavour atu was started by Chris ZL1CVD, did anybody see anything on any suppositories?
The development looks to have stalled and nothing current on his site.
I was certain it was from him & you can guess what PCB I brought....

I've not compared them side by side, with the radio artisan project.
If all else fails I guess it's a case of comparing the relay strategy for L&C and set about changing any necessary pin allocations....?
               
            (Other than Hans, I'm not certain who else has moderator rights.
            Is it worth creating a sub group for dreamers, so we don't clutter the main message list.
            We have to play nicely with others who's only interest will be Pre U3S, U3S, QLG, Clock, VFO, ProgRock, QCX etc, etc...
            It will give them the opportunity to view rather than having it inflicted?)


Alan

On 25/08/2018 01:27, Glenn wrote:
The K3NG ATU lends itself to home brew.   And changes to the power level required. My own build I estimate at around 20-30W and uses smd 2-3kV caps (overkill) and the usual relay switching of L&C. Two relays are used to switch the ends for L-C or C-L. I used standard relays, not latching, due to cost here in VK. Control board uses a NANO with a 0.96" OLED display.

vk3pe


jmh6@...
 

Hi All,

Count me in.

John

On Fri, 24 Aug 2018, J68HZ wrote:
Hardware is done and?and  I must say it works extremely well.  One of the best
projects I?ve ever designed.  I?m Just waiting/ helping Jack with his JackAl
project so that I can coerce him into helping me with the coding for this
project.  As designed, it can work as an integrated-to-a-radio 100W tuner,
or just stand-alone.  Speaks several languages to do that.  What I
particularly like about it is that is tunes in less than a second worst case
(even with my kludgy excuse for code).  Stay tuned.  It?s still on target for
$35 or less.  Probably will be selling kits at Dayton next year.
 
I can?t post on the uBITx group any more so I guess you?ll hear it here first!
 
 
Dr. William J. Schmidt - K9HZ J68HZ 8P6HK ZF2HZ PJ4/K9HZ VP5/K9HZ PJ2/K9HZ
 
Owner - Operator
Big Signal Ranch ? K9ZC
Staunton, Illinois
 
Owner ? Operator
Villa Grand Piton ? J68HZ
Soufriere, St. Lucia W.I.
Rent it: www.VillaGrandPiton.com
Like us on Facebook! facebook icon
 
Moderator ? North American QRO Group at Groups.IO.
 
email:  @Doc_Bill
 
 
From: QRPLabs@groups.io [mailto:QRPLabs@groups.io] On Behalf Of Kelly Jack
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2018 9:34 PM
To: QRPLabs@groups.io
Subject: Re: [QRPLabs] QSX radio feature requests
 
Bill,
How are going with your tuner project?
Regards
Simon
VK3ELH
[icon-envelope-tick-green-avg-v1.png]
Virus-free. www.avg.com

F1BFU - Fr - 79
 

Hello Glenn

Very good. Have you PCB or Where can I get the PCB and the schema?
Do you have documentation for the realization of the reels?

73 QRO Gilles F1BFU/FR

Le sam. 25 août 2018 à 02:27, Glenn <glennp@...> a écrit :

The K3NG ATU lends itself to home brew.   And changes to the power level required. My own build I estimate at around 20-30W and uses smd 2-3kV caps (overkill) and the usual relay switching of L&C. Two relays are used to switch the ends for L-C or C-L. I used standard relays, not latching, due to cost here in VK. Control board uses a NANO with a 0.96" OLED display.

vk3pe




--
Gilles - F1BFU/FR

Alan de G1FXB
 

Good afternoon Gilles,

Glenn is quite prolific with projects. Details here:-

http://www.carnut.info/K3NG_ATU/K3NG_Arduino_based_ATU.htm

to highlight just one of his builds.....


original concept was by

https://blog.radioartisan.com/arduino-antenna-tuner/


Alan


On 25/08/2018 11:54, F1BFU - Fr - 79 wrote:
Hello Glenn

Very good. Have you PCB or Where can I get the PCB and the schema?
Do you have documentation for the realization of the reels?

73 QRO Gilles F1BFU/FR

Le sam. 25 août 2018 à 02:27, Glenn <glennp@...> a écrit :
The K3NG ATU lends itself to home brew.   And changes to the power level required. My own build I estimate at around 20-30W and uses smd 2-3kV caps (overkill) and the usual relay switching of L&C. Two relays are used to switch the ends for L-C or C-L. I used standard relays, not latching, due to cost here in VK. Control board uses a NANO with a 0.96" OLED display.

vk3pe




--
Gilles - F1BFU/FR

Alan de G1FXB
 

Actually both Bill & Glenn's work feature in atleast one other place:-

https://groups.io/g/BITX20/topic/7723927?p=Created,,,20,1,0,0


Alan


On 25/08/2018 12:39, Alan de G1FXB via Groups.Io wrote:
Good afternoon Gilles,

Glenn is quite prolific with projects. Details here:-

http://www.carnut.info/K3NG_ATU/K3NG_Arduino_based_ATU.htm

to highlight just one of his builds.....


original concept was by

https://blog.radioartisan.com/arduino-antenna-tuner/


Alan


On 25/08/2018 11:54, F1BFU - Fr - 79 wrote:
Hello Glenn

Very good. Have you PCB or Where can I get the PCB and the schema?
Do you have documentation for the realization of the reels?

73 QRO Gilles F1BFU/FR

Le sam. 25 août 2018 à 02:27, Glenn <glennp@...> a écrit :
The K3NG ATU lends itself to home brew.   And changes to the power level required. My own build I estimate at around 20-30W and uses smd 2-3kV caps (overkill) and the usual relay switching of L&C. Two relays are used to switch the ends for L-C or C-L. I used standard relays, not latching, due to cost here in VK. Control board uses a NANO with a 0.96" OLED display.

vk3pe




--
Gilles - F1BFU/FR

Braden Glett
 

Allison,
My T1 tuner says it's good up to 20 watts. I've never tested that limit, but it sounds like you may have and found it to be incorrect?
Brady kd8zm

Arv Evans
 

Bill

My own QRP ATU uses binary progression of inductances with a 0-150 pf
variable cap and a switch for adding another 150 pf fixed C.  It doesn't seem
to be too much of a stretch to have the C values also binary progression. 
Might take a bit of thought for those not used to programming in machine
code but it does seem doable. 

I'm curious about how small latching relays work.  My only experience in
that area is with much larger units.  They had two coils, one to operate the relay
and another to release the lock.  Do the small ones work that way. or is
there some other methodology?  Magnetic latch?

Arv
_._


On Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 8:17 PM J68HZ <bill@...> wrote:

Woah, wait.  Toggle switches to replace the relays???!!!!  So how do you propose that would work… do a binary search towards a low SWR solution?  That reminds me of loading the operating system into an ATARI 8080 system using front panel switches…  could take forever and a few days.  If you are worried about current draw, go with latching relays.  Back in March, I bought several hundred latching relays for $0.89 each… yes they can be had cheap if you buy them right from the source.

 

 

Dr. William J. Schmidt - K9HZ J68HZ 8P6HK ZF2HZ PJ4/K9HZ VP5/K9HZ PJ2/K9HZ

 

Owner - Operator

Big Signal Ranch – K9ZC

Staunton, Illinois

 

Owner – Operator

Villa Grand Piton – J68HZ

Soufriere, St. Lucia W.I.

Rent it: www.VillaGrandPiton.com

Like us on Facebook!

 

Moderator – North American QRO Group at Groups.IO.

 

email:  bill@...

 

 

From: QRPLabs@groups.io [mailto:QRPLabs@groups.io] On Behalf Of Arv Evans
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2018 8:18 PM
To: QRPLabs@groups.io
Subject: Re: [QRPLabs] QSX radio feature requests

 

Glen

The K3NG ATU is an interesting design but uses several relays.  That is fine for automation

purposes, but I wonder if the design could be reproduced with a handful of DPDT rocker or

toggle switches replacing the relays.  Maybe there needs to be 2 versions of this well thought

out design, one that is automated and another that is manual for low current draw and increased

battery life for portable use.

Arv
_._

 

On Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 6:27 PM Glenn <glennp@...> wrote:

The K3NG ATU lends itself to home brew.   And changes to the power level required. My own build I estimate at around 20-30W and uses smd 2-3kV caps (overkill) and the usual relay switching of L&C. Two relays are used to switch the ends for L-C or C-L. I used standard relays, not latching, due to cost here in VK. Control board uses a NANO with a 0.96" OLED display.

vk3pe


Virus-free. www.avg.com

jjpurdum
 

Arv:

Why machine code? Why not use C?

Jack, W8TEE

On Saturday, August 25, 2018, 11:22:29 AM EDT, Arv Evans <arvid.evans@...> wrote:


Bill

My own QRP ATU uses binary progression of inductances with a 0-150 pf
variable cap and a switch for adding another 150 pf fixed C.  It doesn't seem
to be too much of a stretch to have the C values also binary progression. 
Might take a bit of thought for those not used to programming in machine
code but it does seem doable. 

I'm curious about how small latching relays work.  My only experience in
that area is with much larger units.  They had two coils, one to operate the relay
and another to release the lock.  Do the small ones work that way. or is
there some other methodology?  Magnetic latch?

Arv
_._


On Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 8:17 PM J68HZ <bill@...> wrote:

Woah, wait.  Toggle switches to replace the relays???!!!!  So how do you propose that would work… do a binary search towards a low SWR solution?  That reminds me of loading the operating system into an ATARI 8080 system using front panel switches…  could take forever and a few days.  If you are worried about current draw, go with latching relays.  Back in March, I bought several hundred latching relays for $0.89 each… yes they can be had cheap if you buy them right from the source.

 

 

Dr. William J. Schmidt - K9HZ J68HZ 8P6HK ZF2HZ PJ4/K9HZ VP5/K9HZ PJ2/K9HZ

 

Owner - Operator

Big Signal Ranch – K9ZC

Staunton, Illinois

 

Owner – Operator

Villa Grand Piton – J68HZ

Soufriere, St. Lucia W.I.

Rent it: www.VillaGrandPiton.com

Like us on Facebook! facebook icon

 

Moderator – North American QRO Group at Groups.IO.

 

email:  bill@...

 

 

From: QRPLabs@groups.io [mailto:QRPLabs@groups.io] On Behalf Of Arv Evans
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2018 8:18 PM
To: QRPLabs@groups.io
Subject: Re: [QRPLabs] QSX radio feature requests

 

Glen

The K3NG ATU is an interesting design but uses several relays.  That is fine for automation

purposes, but I wonder if the design could be reproduced with a handful of DPDT rocker or

toggle switches replacing the relays.  Maybe there needs to be 2 versions of this well thought

out design, one that is automated and another that is manual for low current draw and increased

battery life for portable use.

Arv
_._

 

On Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 6:27 PM Glenn <glennp@...> wrote:

The K3NG ATU lends itself to home brew.   And changes to the power level required. My own build I estimate at around 20-30W and uses smd 2-3kV caps (overkill) and the usual relay switching of L&C. Two relays are used to switch the ends for L-C or C-L. I used standard relays, not latching, due to cost here in VK. Control board uses a NANO with a 0.96" OLED display.

vk3pe


Virus-free. www.avg.com

Arv Evans
 

Jack

My comment was more about being familiar with binary progression than about
actually writing code.    8-)

Guess I'm showing my age if I admit that my first computer was a sales sample
8008 from Intel and it did boot to a paper-tape drive by entering the boot sequence
with toggle switches.  We have come a long way since then.

Arv
_._


On Sat, Aug 25, 2018 at 9:25 AM jjpurdum via Groups.Io <jjpurdum=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Arv:

Why machine code? Why not use C?

Jack, W8TEE

On Saturday, August 25, 2018, 11:22:29 AM EDT, Arv Evans <arvid.evans@...> wrote:


Bill

My own QRP ATU uses binary progression of inductances with a 0-150 pf
variable cap and a switch for adding another 150 pf fixed C.  It doesn't seem
to be too much of a stretch to have the C values also binary progression. 
Might take a bit of thought for those not used to programming in machine
code but it does seem doable. 

I'm curious about how small latching relays work.  My only experience in
that area is with much larger units.  They had two coils, one to operate the relay
and another to release the lock.  Do the small ones work that way. or is
there some other methodology?  Magnetic latch?

Arv
_._


On Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 8:17 PM J68HZ <bill@...> wrote:

Woah, wait.  Toggle switches to replace the relays???!!!!  So how do you propose that would work… do a binary search towards a low SWR solution?  That reminds me of loading the operating system into an ATARI 8080 system using front panel switches…  could take forever and a few days.  If you are worried about current draw, go with latching relays.  Back in March, I bought several hundred latching relays for $0.89 each… yes they can be had cheap if you buy them right from the source.

 

 

Dr. William J. Schmidt - K9HZ J68HZ 8P6HK ZF2HZ PJ4/K9HZ VP5/K9HZ PJ2/K9HZ

 

Owner - Operator

Big Signal Ranch – K9ZC

Staunton, Illinois

 

Owner – Operator

Villa Grand Piton – J68HZ

Soufriere, St. Lucia W.I.

Rent it: www.VillaGrandPiton.com

Like us on Facebook! facebook icon

 

Moderator – North American QRO Group at Groups.IO.

 

email:  bill@...

 

 

From: QRPLabs@groups.io [mailto:QRPLabs@groups.io] On Behalf Of Arv Evans
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2018 8:18 PM
To: QRPLabs@groups.io
Subject: Re: [QRPLabs] QSX radio feature requests

 

Glen

The K3NG ATU is an interesting design but uses several relays.  That is fine for automation

purposes, but I wonder if the design could be reproduced with a handful of DPDT rocker or

toggle switches replacing the relays.  Maybe there needs to be 2 versions of this well thought

out design, one that is automated and another that is manual for low current draw and increased

battery life for portable use.

Arv
_._

 

On Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 6:27 PM Glenn <glennp@...> wrote:

The K3NG ATU lends itself to home brew.   And changes to the power level required. My own build I estimate at around 20-30W and uses smd 2-3kV caps (overkill) and the usual relay switching of L&C. Two relays are used to switch the ends for L-C or C-L. I used standard relays, not latching, due to cost here in VK. Control board uses a NANO with a 0.96" OLED display.

vk3pe


Virus-free. www.avg.com

jjpurdum
 

Arv:

I had the Altair "binary blisters" for several years, so I know what you mean. One of my favorite T-shirts say:

    There are 10 kinds of people in the world:
        Those who know binary and
        those who don't.

Jack, W8TEE

On Saturday, August 25, 2018, 11:43:49 AM EDT, Arv Evans <arvid.evans@...> wrote:


Jack

My comment was more about being familiar with binary progression than about
actually writing code.    8-)

Guess I'm showing my age if I admit that my first computer was a sales sample
8008 from Intel and it did boot to a paper-tape drive by entering the boot sequence
with toggle switches.  We have come a long way since then.

Arv
_._


On Sat, Aug 25, 2018 at 9:25 AM jjpurdum via Groups.Io <jjpurdum=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Arv:

Why machine code? Why not use C?

Jack, W8TEE

On Saturday, August 25, 2018, 11:22:29 AM EDT, Arv Evans <arvid.evans@...> wrote:


Bill

My own QRP ATU uses binary progression of inductances with a 0-150 pf
variable cap and a switch for adding another 150 pf fixed C.  It doesn't seem
to be too much of a stretch to have the C values also binary progression. 
Might take a bit of thought for those not used to programming in machine
code but it does seem doable. 

I'm curious about how small latching relays work.  My only experience in
that area is with much larger units.  They had two coils, one to operate the relay
and another to release the lock.  Do the small ones work that way. or is
there some other methodology?  Magnetic latch?

Arv
_._


On Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 8:17 PM J68HZ <bill@...> wrote:

Woah, wait.  Toggle switches to replace the relays???!!!!  So how do you propose that would work… do a binary search towards a low SWR solution?  That reminds me of loading the operating system into an ATARI 8080 system using front panel switches…  could take forever and a few days.  If you are worried about current draw, go with latching relays.  Back in March, I bought several hundred latching relays for $0.89 each… yes they can be had cheap if you buy them right from the source.

 

 

Dr. William J. Schmidt - K9HZ J68HZ 8P6HK ZF2HZ PJ4/K9HZ VP5/K9HZ PJ2/K9HZ

 

Owner - Operator

Big Signal Ranch – K9ZC

Staunton, Illinois

 

Owner – Operator

Villa Grand Piton – J68HZ

Soufriere, St. Lucia W.I.

Rent it: www.VillaGrandPiton.com

Like us on Facebook! facebook icon

 

Moderator – North American QRO Group at Groups.IO.

 

email:  bill@...

 

 

From: QRPLabs@groups.io [mailto:QRPLabs@groups.io] On Behalf Of Arv Evans
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2018 8:18 PM
To: QRPLabs@groups.io
Subject: Re: [QRPLabs] QSX radio feature requests

 

Glen

The K3NG ATU is an interesting design but uses several relays.  That is fine for automation

purposes, but I wonder if the design could be reproduced with a handful of DPDT rocker or

toggle switches replacing the relays.  Maybe there needs to be 2 versions of this well thought

out design, one that is automated and another that is manual for low current draw and increased

battery life for portable use.

Arv
_._

 

On Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 6:27 PM Glenn <glennp@...> wrote:

The K3NG ATU lends itself to home brew.   And changes to the power level required. My own build I estimate at around 20-30W and uses smd 2-3kV caps (overkill) and the usual relay switching of L&C. Two relays are used to switch the ends for L-C or C-L. I used standard relays, not latching, due to cost here in VK. Control board uses a NANO with a 0.96" OLED display.

vk3pe


Virus-free. www.avg.com

ajparent1/KB1GMX
 

Brady,

I found that some cases of high SWR on the output side the voltage on the
detector diodes killed them at 20W but not at below 15W.  For matching 3:1
or less it was not an issue.  Since most of their low power radios are 12W max
its rarely an issue.  Excellent match to my Argonaut 505 and FT817.

However, I've used it to tune end fed half waves, and 8ft whip at 20M and I
firmly believe its able to tune a nail at 40M or at least try.  Its quick about it.

As kits go it was a fun build.  Lots of toroids!

Allison

Richard Harris
 

Whilst on the subject of auto-ATUs.....

I've made a home brew auto-ATU for my 20m QCX.  It uses three binary stepped toroid inductors and three binary stepped NPO ceramic capacitors and it has a seventh relay to switch between CL and LC matching, so similar to the Elecraft KAXT1.  The processor is a PICAXE 28X2 - the PICAXE is a PIC with a "PICAXE basic" interpreter and so is slower than an Arduino but plenty fast enough for this application.  The PICAXE is also very easy to program and most of my projects have at least one.

I was concerned about damage to the PA FETs because the impedance seen by the FETs could vary over a wide range when tuning, so rather than a conventional SWR bridge (such the Bruene circuit used in the T1) an eighth relay switches in a 50 Ohm resistive bridge when tuning is taking place and so the SWR seen by the TX never exceeds 2:1.  The processor grounds the QCX keyer dot contact and the relays change during dot spaces and the bridge balance is checked during each transmitted dot.  

There are a total of 128 combinations of Ls and Cs and the processor works its way through these combinations until the bridge approaches balance and then it varies the L and C plus and minus a setting or two to find the optimum the balance.  It takes a few seconds to find a match depending on the keyer speed that has been set.

I don't have a permanent outdoor antenna but the 20m QCX + auto-ATU works well with about 25 feet of wire hung around my ground floor shack and I have worked across the Atlantic with this combination. 

The Elecraft KAXT1 uses 5V latching relays - a very neat design.  My auto-ATU uses inexpensive 12V relays because minimizing current consumption wasn't a requirement.

Richard G3OTK

Chuck, N1KGY
 

Hans has been producing great products for a number of years now -
First, let me say thank you, Hans.  Your time, effort, skill, and dedication have been a boon to the ham and experimenter's community.  Your excellent track record gives me good cause to trust your "sense of direction" for the various products you are developing.  You've already found a good balance between your own sense of direction and the input of the community...  stick with your current mantra and you'll continue to knock it out of the park.
The QRP Labs mantra is:-
     Maximum performance, for the least cost..

On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 10:56 AM, Hans Summers wrote:
I am enjoying the discussion on LF, VHF proposals. All nice ideas and perhaps in time, some can be made reality.
I'm restating the obvious, but either LF/MF or VHF -future enhancements- can be "accommodated" in the initial design with minimal cost: there are a few signal and control lines that need headers, to allow a daughter-board with such features to be added later.  That, and a few basic hooks in the code as placeholders for future goodness, are all that is required in the workup to a first production run.  Everything else is "desert".

For the ambitious, those headers are an open door to further adventures of their own design - pun intended - as soon as they have a QCX in their hands.  For those who want to "stay on paved roads" (what I've called kit-building for the last decade or so), waiting for someone else to produce a board/kit for their desired option is not an unreasonable course, given the amazing developments we've seen across the ham/hacker community in the last few years.

Therefore whilst an all-in-one-box walking talking 2200m to 2m all-mode transceiver with 7-inch graphic OLED screen and a rear panel full of different connectors and interfaces is not likely to be possible at this price...
Please, don't let people incite you to consider going down that road --  too much complexity, too many compromises.  Also, there's the impending threshold of the rig getting too big/heavy/power-hungry for field/manpack use, and to expensive/valuable to drag all over creation, anyway.  I think this is the issue at the root of the "second enclosure" question/discussion for the ATU and Battery pack (and A/C charger?) presently running in this thread.

Thus far, you have designed and delivered kits "easy enough for a beginner to build, and good enough that we keep using them"... but those kits also serve as excellent platforms for further experimentation/expansion - and IMHO, that combination is the key to your success. 

Again, many thanks!
Chuck

Chuck, N1KGY
 

On Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 10:17 PM, J68HZ wrote:
Back in March, I bought several hundred latching relays for $0.89 each… yes they can be had cheap if you buy them right from the source.
Source please?  I've been looking for a good supplier, also.
Thanks
Chuck

Glenn
 

Hi Gilles, contact me directly please. I have one spare pcb and control board.

glenn
vk3pe


On Sat, Aug 25, 2018 at 08:54 PM, F1BFU - Fr - 79 wrote:
Hello Glenn
 
Very good. Have you PCB or Where can I get the PCB and the schema?
Do you have documentation for the realization of the reels?
 
73 QRO Gilles F1BFU/FR

Le sam. 25 août 2018 à 02:27, Glenn <glennp@...> a écrit :
The K3NG ATU lends itself to home brew.   And changes to the power level required. My own build I estimate at around 20-30W and uses smd 2-3kV caps (overkill) and the usual relay switching of L&C. Two relays are used to switch the ends for L-C or C-L. I used standard relays, not latching, due to cost here in VK. Control board uses a NANO with a 0.96" OLED display.

vk3pe



 
--
Gilles - F1BFU/FR

J68HZ
 

Hey Arv… Oh the binary approach does work.  Eventually.   My comment was more along the lines that it’s the most inefficient way to get to a match.  I did a lot of research around algorithms used to solve the classical binary tuning problem years ago (8 discrete coil, 8 discrete capacitors… 65535 combinations.).  The best hunting algorithm uses a newton gradient approach to finding the solution (calculate the derivative basis your swr readings).  It’s also the fastest of the hunting algorithms.  Smarter approach… one used by most military tuners… it to calculate the real and imaginary parts of the load at the frequency of interest.  Then calculate the transform to give you exactly 50 ohms real… and implement that as a solution.  It’s like plotting the load on a smith chart and drawing the two-step solution to get to 50 ohms.  It’s obvious from the diagram what to do.  Since there can be a bit of error in the calculations, these algorithms usually either stop and live with a tiny bit of SWR or they then switch to a halving algorithm to tough up the SWR by looking at reactive components on either side of the calculated solution.  This is also covered in Sabin’s book.   This approach is way faster than the binary/ hunting approach unless you start at the solution to begin with… at which time they both have about the same solution time!

 

Latching relays.  I started looking for some good quality, small,  latching RF relays capable of 100 watts.  I found two types… a single coil-reverse voltage to change state (must be magnetic), and dual coil models (flip flop).  I eventually settled on the dual coil model as they are easier to implement than reversing the coil polarity.  I found what I needed on Alibaba… It was a direct from the factory deal for several hundred.  I asked for a sample to try first.  When I was satisfied they worked, I bought several hundred.

 

 

Dr. William J. Schmidt - K9HZ J68HZ 8P6HK ZF2HZ PJ4/K9HZ VP5/K9HZ PJ2/K9HZ

 

Owner - Operator

Big Signal Ranch – K9ZC

Staunton, Illinois

 

Owner – Operator

Villa Grand Piton – J68HZ

Soufriere, St. Lucia W.I.

Rent it: www.VillaGrandPiton.com

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Moderator – North American QRO Group at Groups.IO.

 

email:  bill@...

 

 

From: QRPLabs@groups.io [mailto:QRPLabs@groups.io] On Behalf Of Arv Evans
Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2018 10:22 AM
To: QRPLabs@groups.io
Subject: Re: [QRPLabs] QSX radio feature requests

 

Bill

My own QRP ATU uses binary progression of inductances with a 0-150 pf

variable cap and a switch for adding another 150 pf fixed C.  It doesn't seem

to be too much of a stretch to have the C values also binary progression. 

Might take a bit of thought for those not used to programming in machine

code but it does seem doable. 

I'm curious about how small latching relays work.  My only experience in

that area is with much larger units.  They had two coils, one to operate the relay

and another to release the lock.  Do the small ones work that way. or is

there some other methodology?  Magnetic latch?

Arv
_._

 

On Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 8:17 PM J68HZ <bill@...> wrote:

Woah, wait.  Toggle switches to replace the relays???!!!!  So how do you propose that would work… do a binary search towards a low SWR solution?  That reminds me of loading the operating system into an ATARI 8080 system using front panel switches…  could take forever and a few days.  If you are worried about current draw, go with latching relays.  Back in March, I bought several hundred latching relays for $0.89 each… yes they can be had cheap if you buy them right from the source.

 

 

Dr. William J. Schmidt - K9HZ J68HZ 8P6HK ZF2HZ PJ4/K9HZ VP5/K9HZ PJ2/K9HZ

 

Owner - Operator

Big Signal Ranch – K9ZC

Staunton, Illinois

 

Owner – Operator

Villa Grand Piton – J68HZ

Soufriere, St. Lucia W.I.

Rent it: www.VillaGrandPiton.com

Like us on Facebook!

 

Moderator – North American QRO Group at Groups.IO.

 

email:  bill@...

 

 

From: QRPLabs@groups.io [mailto:QRPLabs@groups.io] On Behalf Of Arv Evans
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2018 8:18 PM
To: QRPLabs@groups.io
Subject: Re: [QRPLabs] QSX radio feature requests

 

Glen

The K3NG ATU is an interesting design but uses several relays.  That is fine for automation

purposes, but I wonder if the design could be reproduced with a handful of DPDT rocker or

toggle switches replacing the relays.  Maybe there needs to be 2 versions of this well thought

out design, one that is automated and another that is manual for low current draw and increased

battery life for portable use.

Arv
_._

 

On Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 6:27 PM Glenn <glennp@...> wrote:

The K3NG ATU lends itself to home brew.   And changes to the power level required. My own build I estimate at around 20-30W and uses smd 2-3kV caps (overkill) and the usual relay switching of L&C. Two relays are used to switch the ends for L-C or C-L. I used standard relays, not latching, due to cost here in VK. Control board uses a NANO with a 0.96" OLED display.

vk3pe

 

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