OT: Linux


ajparent1/kb1gmx
 

Linux Desktop and laptop user since 2007.  I run off the Debian tree usually Ubuntu, Mint
or for the Rpi Rasbian.

I will not tell anyone to switch, its their life and time.  I jumped as my life and time was 
not being helped by dealing with the all to often winders issues and needing to run
elaborate software to protect it due to its affinity for virus, worms, exploits, and
sundry hacks.

Unlike many here I was not a long time winders fan. Personal system I Had CP/M up
and running back in '76 and continued using that as mainline system though the 90s.
I also ran RT-11, RSX11, OpenVMS on DEC hardware I had (PDP11 and VAX) for
fast stable systems that still run to this day.  During the mid 90s I had to have
compatibility so  PS running DOS, then 3.11, win95 and NT4.  By then I'd laid
in money to be expert in NT4 and win 95/98 and learned well staying with MS
meant paying, and paying.  So I jumped.  Prior to that I had worked with Linux
for server level uses and it was good also only command line, but desktop in
the late 90s was incomplete and a bit strange.

Anyhow in '07 I jumped to Ubunto 7.04and prodding from my boss a true linux
and Mac os10 user and never looked back.

I use Virtualbox to run win98lite and XP for ability to use old dos and winders based 
tools like MPLAB and a few others.  .wine is good for many things and runs 4NEC2
antenna modeler really well.  LibreOffice has been the standard for replacing all of
M$office and while many use Outlook I hate it so I don't use Evolution though it works
well.  Every winders thing has a Linux replacement of in some cases a better solution.
Also in the last 10 years the Ubuntu desktop passes well enough for my partner that
was a hardcore winders user on a laptop that barely ran it.

As to system hardware PCs, It runs well on my Eeepc 700 and EeePC 1040
(dual core atom) still, also an old IBM R40 (PII1.5ghz 1GB ram),  and is fairly
snappy on a Dell Latitude D600 (PIII/1.6ghz 2gb ram).   And the desktop in use
for this is a MintBox (AMD 1.6ghz quad core with 8gb ram).   Fastest machine
I own is a ITX box running a 2ghz quadcore with 8gb and 250gb SSD.

Since I don't game speed its not a requirement only solid bullet proof operation 
and if its low power (MintBox!) that's a good thing.  Since my Mintbox run on
solar charged station battery, its up time is 380 days...  Sometimes an
updadate requires a reboot.  Never got winders to go more than 6 months
uptime.

For laughs I also have a Rpi3B+ in a case with a 10" LCD and mouse and
keyboard running Raspbian as it has wifi and BT.  That steampunked box
gets a lot of looks but it is more than enough to take notes in a meeting and
run the presentation screen and even update the PP (LibreOffice IMPRESS).  

One problem is that products become available like minivnapro and the
software is black box and only winders.  This is where Virtualbox makes
it money.  I can run a "real" licensed winders system that makes the software
happy and use products like that.  I'd prefer they supported Linux directly.

Allison



David
 

Remmove 5V from a Raspberry Pi when it's writing to the uSD card and there's a good chance that it'll screw the card (permanently).  Been there, done it.

Dave

On 17/10/2019 15:23, Andy Brilleaux 17,410,742 via Groups.Io wrote:

Let us not forgot a few other great points about Linux.

Resilience.

Windows always throws a hissy fit if the power dies or is not shut down properly.
Hours wasted with scandisk or repairing a registry.
You don't get that nonsense with Linux.
One great example is the Raspberry Pi.
Runs from an SD card with Debian, with a Pi flavoured skin on it.
These devices don't even have an off/off button.
Just apply the 5 volts PSU to it for a boot up, or yank it out when it's time to go to bed ;-)
Same on PC if you want.

On Windows you have an ever growing registry that want to register every file for every application.
It grows, it takes longer to boot.
You try removing software or cleaning up the registry, but it never seems to shrink - why ?
Not a problem on Linux.

Most Linux kernels include a fast off mode, ALT+SYS REQ + O(ff).
Nice fast close down if you need it.

Lots of open source software, ready made or with source so you know what you're getting.
Free compilers, no silly licences or restrictions.

No silly drivers issues, plug in and get on with the job.
Windows just makes a real mess of trying to decide what driver to use, or what comport number to assign. What a waste of time.

Alan ZFQ:

Libre Office will do xls files.
The only things that may catch you out is if you used some specialised MS Office function in a cell.
It pays to just use standard functions, even if you might need an extra step or two for the calculation.
But Libre Office has most of them sussed anyway.

And then there's being able to just write simple BASH scripts to perform custom tasks.
MS Powershell is terrible and often calls for a GUI program to do things.

And there's another feature of Linux.
Pretty much all Linux app functions can be done on a command line without even opening up the GUI, even for apps that include a GUI.
All those mouse clicks saved.

No spyware, no calling home, no registration, no restrictive licences.

Personal preferences.

Linux Mint. Best desktop Linux with excellent software management. You can choose different desktop versions to suit your taste or hardware resources.

Debian: Fast, stable. Slightly more basic package manager. Not quite as pretty on the GUI but so what.

AntiX: Ultra lean Debian based Linux. Trimmed so that it can run on really ancient PC's. Not too pretty and a bit geeky (not really suitable for XYL's) ;-)

But each to their own, there's LOTS of variants with a groups personal desktop project added. They're all pretty good, just comes down to personal taste
sometimes.

If you have a few old Windows apps then WINE will often run them.
I have things like HAMCAP and RFSIM99 through WINE.
Even that old Veroboard designer from years ago (can't remember it's name) will run on it.
I've even had Electronics Workbench too.

At last, owning a computer is fun and useful again.
It's an OS that does what I tell it.
Windows tells YOU what to do :-(

TIP: Wanna try Linux. Make a bootable USB stick first and see that you don't have any odd hardware issues. Don't uses DVD's, they are painfully slow.

Another tip is is you have a slow loading app, then you can have it (or ANYTHING) loaded and held in RAM if you wish.
It stays there (so it uses a bit of your RAM), but it means that once booted everything loads in 3 picoseconds when you go to use it.
Slow swap file on a  disk ?
You can easily configure it to never use  swap file and use a ramdisk instead, mega fast.

Sorry for the group bandwidth on this subject, but Linux has exactly the same ethos as our own amateur radio hobby, plus it allows
us to do stuff easier for our hobby.

Just look at the the aggro Windows makes to program an ATMEL controller for a QRP Labs product.
Dead easy on Linux, none of this rebooting Windows and funny set up menus to allow unsigned drivers or system files for Extreme Burner (for example).
One command line or an executable BASH file (BASH = .BAT in Linux) and the job is done.
I think Hans does the same now.

73 de Andy



 

On Thu, Oct 17, 2019 at 04:46 PM, ajparent1/KB1GMX wrote:
One problem is that products become available like minivnapro and the
software is black box and only winders
vnaJ is a Java based program for those products.
I use it here both on my PC and Raspberry PI.
All for free.

73 de Andy


 

On Thu, Oct 17, 2019 at 04:46 PM, David wrote:
Remmove 5V from a Raspberry Pi when it's writing to the uSD card and there's a good chance that it'll screw the card (permanently).  Been there, done it.
I just pull the power cord on mine, been doing it for a year now with zero problems.
I do however run everything is a RAMDISK, and no swap file, so that probably helps.

73 de Andy


Jerry Gaffke
 

At work it was BSD Unix into the 1990's.
But then the cheaper engineering tools were all moving to Microsoft, 
and I had to deal with it.  Never felt comfortable on Dos/Windows unless I had
a Unix like command line interface such as PercentShell/Cygwin/minGW
Tried my best not to muddy my brain by filling it with Microsoft minutiae.

Was using Slackware Linux at home starting about '95, downloaded at 14.4 kbaud onto floppies.
This post is being written on a very nice $210 (refurbished) Acer 14" 1080P Chromebook
with Crouton installed, so basically running Ubuntu Linux.
No complaints, though some might prefer to shun the googleplex.  
Acer just announced a new line of products, older machines will likely fall in price in a few weeks.

I should probably try Virtualbox on Linux for the occasional MSWin program.
But for now, that's all done on an ancient XP laptop that isn't allowed out on the net,
with occasional backups just in case I install something dodgy.

Jerry, KE7ER



On Thu, Oct 17, 2019 at 08:46 AM, ajparent1/KB1GMX wrote:

I will not tell anyone to switch, its their life and time.  I jumped as my life and time was 
not being helped by dealing with the all to often winders issues and needing to run
elaborate software to protect it due to its affinity for virus, worms, exploits, and
sundry hacks.


ajparent1/kb1gmx
 

Why would you pull the power on a PI while a file is open on the uSD??
That's begging for issues.

I also do not use the miniUSB for power, its injected (5V) at the GPIO
pin area though a more secure connector.

Mine the power is actually cut under program control at shutdown.
I added a latching power on and the Pi uses a GPIO to punch the
off side.  Seemed like the logical solution.
=====================================================

RE unix:  I run V6,  V7, 2.11 on PDP-11.  I have Ultrix V4.2 (has BSD)
for VAX along with NETBSD for  a few (I have 10 VAX systems) of them.

Started with slackware V.09, still have the 75 floppies!

Never minded DOS (v3.3 through 6.22) as it was like CP/M and even
used the same FCB structures.  I have a few 486 powered boxes for 
those times...

At work I had a linux box for me and also the company machine
with win10pro.  Win10pro has provision for a linux interface and
I survived there.  Thankfully retired now.

Allison


Alan G4ZFQ
 

Hours wasted with scandisk or repairing a registry.
Andy,

I don't want to defend Windows overmuch but a lot of Linux users do use out of date criticisms. Accidently turn off a Windows 10 computer and you hardly know if it has done anything extra during the bootup. All the checkdisk seems to have gone long ago.

On Windows you have an ever growing registry that want to register every file for every application.
It grows, it takes longer to boot.
Does it? Certainly my XP will have run almost continuously for 10 years in a few days time. It does not get rebooted often but does not seem to take much longer than it ever did. And it has been heavily used, any software I see, I try.

Alan ZFQ:
Libre Office will do xls files.
OK, it is time to try again, it was Open Office when I last tried. Also maybe my xls is too old?

And then there's being able to just write simple BASH scripts to perform custom tasks.
simple BASH scripts? I use "Command line" and Batch files, not needed to try Power Shell yet. Oh, I see you did =Bash with Batch.

Pretty much all Linux app functions can be done on a command line without even opening up the GUI,
All those mouse clicks saved.
I like mouse clicks:-) And it saves having to remember commands.

But each to their own, there's LOTS of variants
If you have a few old Windows apps then WINE will often run them.
But not some I use, I have investigated. USB, or has it changed?

Just look at the the aggro Windows makes to program an ATMEL controller for a QRP Labs product.
Come off it! Use Averdudess and it's exactly the same. Installing the dreaded driver is easy if you know how.

Windows tells YOU what to do :-(
Maybe but then I tell it the way I want to do things. There are free programs that help in that respect.

Thanks for the tips Andy but obviously I do not see Windows through a Linux man's eyes.
I do not know what caused Hans' problem, many users say Windows 10 is getting to be the best yet. (After some annoying features when it was first introduced.) It runs fairly well on my 10 year old computers but I'm not paying for it. Older Windows suit me better and I use the £100 Windows 10 tablet thing when I want to be reasonably secure.

73 Alan G4ZFQ


Stephen Farthing G0XAR JO92ON97
 

Linux, ha! Back in the days before Linux I got Minix to work, I think in about 1990. Minix is an open source sort of Linux produced by Andy Tannenbaum at the University of Amsterdam. I was suitably astonished to find out Minix still going after all those years. I can’t even remember what hardware it ran on when I did it. Possibly a 286  running ms/dos from floppy’s. 

Interestingly (well it is to me as I learned to code in 1972 on an ICL 1903 in (Algol 60) which had real core storage, on toroids way smaller than those in Hans’s kits) there are a number of emulations of elderly computers running on the Raspberry Pi. When I find the “round to it” Hans gave me I’ve a PDP11 front panel kit to build which has many flashing lights and switches, as proper computers had back then. The actual computing is done by a Raspberry Pi running an RSX/11m emulator (the Dec real time operating system). 

To try and wrestle this back on topic, programming back then has a lot in common with programming AVRs and other microcontrollers now. Limited code space, little operating system support and some hardware knowledge required. And loading code into hardware was often a bit tricky. I’m always amazed by the amount of functionality Hans has shoehorned into the QCX AVR. 

73s Steve G0XAR



Paul AI4EE
 

"I once programmed an entire database using just ones and zeros."

"You had ones? We had to use the letter l."

:-)


On 10/17/2019 2:25 PM, Stephen Farthing G0XAR JO92ON97 wrote:

Linux, ha! Back in the days before Linux I got Minix to work, I think in about 1990. Minix is an open source sort of Linux produced by Andy Tannenbaum at the University of Amsterdam. I was suitably astonished to find out Minix still going after all those years. I can’t even remember what hardware it ran on when I did it. Possibly a 286  running ms/dos from floppy’s. 

Interestingly (well it is to me as I learned to code in 1972 on an ICL 1903 in (Algol 60) which had real core storage, on toroids way smaller than those in Hans’s kits) there are a number of emulations of elderly computers running on the Raspberry Pi. When I find the “round to it” Hans gave me I’ve a PDP11 front panel kit to build which has many flashing lights and switches, as proper computers had back then. The actual computing is done by a Raspberry Pi running an RSX/11m emulator (the Dec real time operating system). 

To try and wrestle this back on topic, programming back then has a lot in common with programming AVRs and other microcontrollers now. Limited code space, little operating system support and some hardware knowledge required. And loading code into hardware was often a bit tricky. I’m always amazed by the amount of functionality Hans has shoehorned into the QCX AVR. 

73s Steve G0XAR



Bruce K1FFX
 

I meant to ask this question in this thread when it was active last month, but didn't get around to it ... so hoping better late than never:

I long ago switched to Mac for most of my purposes, but have maintained a Windows machine ... the last in the house ... in the ham shack.  Now, Microsoft is letting me know that this is the end for Windows 7 support.  My choices are: (1) live without support (2) "upgrade" to Windows 10 (ain't gonna happen) or (3) migrate to Linux.  

I have a lot of experience with Linux and would be fine going that way ... _except_ for logging software.  I really like the N1MM software.  So, my question is: have folks found really satisfactory logging software for the Linux platform?  I'd be really grateful for recommendations, if there are any.

Best -

Bruce K1FFX


K9WIS <k9wis@...>
 

You can install Unbutnu linux on your windows 7 machine and then choose which OS you want to run at startup...the nice part about Unbuntu running side by side with windows is that you can access the files on your window OS from the Unbuntu OS.

After the last automatic unauthorized update to windows 10 from microsoft, many programs and all my USB to serial adapters stopped working and all efforts to get them to work failed. So all the computers in the shack are now Linux machines. They run a lot faster without auto update surprises and the old usb to serial adapters worked..yay..

Bria K9WIS

-----------------------------------------

From: "Bruce K1FFX"
To: QRPLabs@groups.io
Cc:
Sent: Monday November 11 2019 1:26:03PM
Subject: Re: [QRPLabs] OT: Linux

I meant to ask this question in this thread when it was active last month, but didn't get around to it ... so hoping better late than never:

I long ago switched to Mac for most of my purposes, but have maintained a Windows machine ... the last in the house ... in the ham shack.  Now, Microsoft is letting me know that this is the end for Windows 7 support.  My choices are: (1) live without support (2) "upgrade" to Windows 10 (ain't gonna happen) or (3) migrate to Linux.  

I have a lot of experience with Linux and would be fine going that way ... _except_ for logging software.  I really like the N1MM software.  So, my question is: have folks found really satisfactory logging software for the Linux platform?  I'd be really grateful for recommendations, if there are any.

Best -

Bruce K1FFX


HB9FIH
 

Hi all

Interested I read this theme.

Soon I also on Linux. When I was qrl ALL my servers also some clients has been on Linux (CentOS/Debian). After retirement I recognized on Linux exists not so much HAM radio Software - then I changed to WIN. Now Its time to change again. Either Ubuntu or Mint. 

Question: (the Red Pitaya Q is not for me -- for a friend) 

- anybody running HAM Radio DeLuxe - (maybe with the WineHQ) ?

- anywhere running a RedPitaya with any SDR frontend on Linux (RX AND TX) ?

73 Erich


HB9FIH
 

sri I meant 

somewhere and somebody... hihi


Michael.2E0IHW
 

Many we are who face this dilemma.

Win7 - with protection software and no links
other than ham software : with backups, reasonably safe.

Win10 : with enervating, superfluous apps and updates :
probably safe-ish. With protection, probably best for
personal and banking - and for many ham implementations.

Linux : learning curve, but overall, once
mastered, probably the best future-proof choice.
Wine should bridge when needed. I too would
welcome any hints and links for ham applications.

MAC : dunno. Others will advise.

Michael

On 11/11/2019 18:26, Bruce K1FFX wrote:
...
Microsoft is letting me know that this is the end for Windows 7 support.  My choices are: (1) live without support (2) "upgrade" to Windows 10 (ain't gonna happen) or (3) migrate to Linux.
I have a lot of experience with Linux and would be fine going that way ... _except_ for logging software.
...
Bruce K1FFX


 

Not everyone trusts Ubuntu, especially if you are a FOSS Linux purist.
The Amazon "spyware" and some other call home type stuff has made the purists suspicious.
73 de Andy


 

On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 07:38 PM, HB9FIH wrote:
- anybody running HAM Radio DeLuxe - (maybe with the WineHQ) ?
https://forums.qrz.com/index.php?threads/ham-radio-deluxe-support-hacked-my-computer.547962/
https://www.reddit.com/r/amateurradio/comments/5jf4i2/ham_radio_deluxe_mega_thread/

Might be better off with FLRIG ?

http://www.w1hkj.com/

73 de Andy


 


Jim Mcilroy
 

Hi

I used Linux Mint for a while but found difficulties getting certain drivers.

Installed Fedora 30 and have found that to be very good generally.

73 Jim G4EQX


On 11 Nov 2019, at 20:02, Andy Brilleaux via Groups.Io <punkbiscuit@...> wrote:

Not everyone trusts Ubuntu, especially if you are a FOSS Linux purist.
The Amazon "spyware" and some other call home type stuff has made the purists suspicious.
73 de Andy


Simon G0FCU
 

Hi Bruce,

as no one else who has replied has tried to answer your actual question then I will!

On Linux I use CQRLOG https://www.cqrlog.com/about but a potential alternative worth looking at is CloudLog https://www.magicbug.co.uk/cloudlog/

Both are open source.

Regards
Simon
G0FCU.

On Mon, 11 Nov 2019 at 18:26, Bruce K1FFX <rosen.bruce@...> wrote:
I meant to ask this question in this thread when it was active last month, but didn't get around to it ... so hoping better late than never:

I long ago switched to Mac for most of my purposes, but have maintained a Windows machine ... the last in the house ... in the ham shack.  Now, Microsoft is letting me know that this is the end for Windows 7 support.  My choices are: (1) live without support (2) "upgrade" to Windows 10 (ain't gonna happen) or (3) migrate to Linux.  

I have a lot of experience with Linux and would be fine going that way ... _except_ for logging software.  I really like the N1MM software.  So, my question is: have folks found really satisfactory logging software for the Linux platform?  I'd be really grateful for recommendations, if there are any.

Best -

Bruce K1FFX


Clive Lorton
 


I’m running win7 for logging on my Mac mini using virtual box. No updates for win so it is running fast.  Sophos anti virus  runs very well.   Time machine also backs up my log book. If it catches a cold I can revert to a clean snapshot. I’m sure there’s a vulnerability somewhere but it’s easily overcome.

73 from Clive G8POC 


On Mon, 11 Nov 2019 at 19:52, Michael.2E0IHW via Groups.Io <blumu=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote:
Many we are who face this dilemma.

Win7 - with protection software and no links
other than ham software : with backups, reasonably safe.

Win10 : with enervating, superfluous apps and updates :
probably safe-ish. With protection, probably best for
personal and banking - and for many ham implementations.

Linux : learning curve, but overall, once
mastered, probably the best future-proof choice.
Wine should bridge when needed.  I too would
welcome any hints and links for ham applications.

MAC : dunno. Others will advise.

Michael


On 11/11/2019 18:26, Bruce K1FFX wrote:
...
> Microsoft is letting me know that this is the end for Windows 7
> support.  My choices are: (1) live without support (2) "upgrade" to
> Windows 10 (ain't gonna happen) or (3) migrate to Linux.
>
> I have a lot of experience with Linux and would be fine going that way
> ... _except_ for logging software.
...
> Bruce K1FFX