Hello everyone. Just completed my QDX build sucessfully.

However, running QRP on the actual FT8 channels is an exercise in frustation. Long have gonne the days that a 25w signal was considered QRO.

These are now hosts to a daily megawatt party, with +25db signals and no room for the "little guys". It´s an exercise in frustation.

Should we start talking about a new spot for digital QRP ops?

Cheers

Paulo, CT2IWW

I agree completely, however in today's ego driven world I am not sure this is fixable.  For me the challenge/thrill is miles/watt and no simply miles. 

On Mon, Feb 14, 2022 at 02:54 PM, Paulo CT wrote:

Should we start talking about a new spot for digital QRP ops?

No... the QRO guys will just take that over too.

Mike
WM4B

Yes it is extremely annoying. In my opinion, only thing to do is to spread the word, and endlessly argue with QRO folks about what "weak signal mode" actually means. That it is ok to use 1kw when shooting at the moon, but not really on HF.

On Mon, Feb 14, 2022 at 07:54 PM, Paulo CT wrote:

However, running QRP on the actual FT8 channels is an exercise in frustation. Long have gonne the days that a 25w signal was considered QRO.

That's why I don't use FT8.  It was supposed to be a way of sending/receiving weak signals. Now it's just turned into computers talking to each other and stupid amounts of RF power being used. What is the challenge/interest in running high power so your computer can conduct a very brief and minimal QSO on your behalf  ( I don't mean you personally    >:-)   )

Reg               G4NFR

This sums up why CW is still the eternal mode. 

I agree with the comments here about the use of excessive watts that now happens on digital ham radio.

I have used digital modes 100% of my 5 years as a ham.  (A ham as a teen, left, came back in retirement) I have a very poor antenna situation (HOA/Small lot) that would not / does not work on voice effectively.  At first it was rare to see what you know is excessive power used, but now you see this daily. 

I understand success in Ham Radio in past times depended on lots of watts, both to make contacts and bragging rights.   Many of our fellow Hams have spent their entire life in the hobby using / buying high power and beam antennas.  Will they change or at least not use excessive power on digital modes?  They have always turned up the power to make that contact.  It may be mostly habit, with touch of ego.  I think most of high power Hams are nice guys that don't realize that 5W would still make that contact. 

The hobby has advanced now, and even on voice, watts go further than they used to.  I just finished a QRPGuys transceiver with a receiver section that rivals the IC7300 sitting next to it.  The advancements in our equipment today is truly amazing. Thanks in part to Hans Summer.

I don't have answer to the question of what can or should be done.  I have moved off 20M more often, and sometimes use FT4.  That has kept me happy. 

Just my 2 cents worth.

Try JS8 call. It's a small signal mode that actually allows real QSOs.
--
73, Dan - W2DLC

While QRO power may be annoying, you still for the most part can see QRP signals on the FT8 waterfall, just look for the lower dB numbers. QRO doesn't wipe out all signals on FT8 to my knowledge, but only the signals being transmitted on the same freq.

What I personally think is more problematic is the un-monitored FT8 stations. For example, today I sent a CQ DX call on FT8 only to be answered by a W5 station. Not that this is a major issue and I would assume the OP wanted my grid square etc. What is annoying is the same OP replied to my CQ after successfully completing a QSO two more times! I think this represents an autonomous station not being monitored by a human. I really don't understand this practice as it seems less like ham radio but rather more of a computer to computer contact.  If you take the human element out of the QSO and FT8, what is the point? Chasing paper awards etc? Perhaps the op stepped away from his station, but the more I op on FT, the more I see this happening.

Anyhow, my two cents.

Rich

I like the idea of a QRP spot away from the regular FT8 channel.  How about a QDX roundup qso party 3 k lower in frequency.  It could be sort of like a fox hunt where QDX's can call CQ and others with or without a QDX can answer ( running qrp or course ).

And for my war story, I actually logged a contact with a station who is the loudest on the bands but never answers my call just so his CQ appears in a different color on the waterfall and I can easily ignore him.

That which is a strong signal to you might not be a strong signal for the area of the world that the guy transmitting is trying to work.  I regularly use FT8 with low power but I've also used it with a KW to work the Far East on 160m due to the mountain range between us.  Other probably run higher power to offset poor antennas.  In spite of what lots of hams think, FT8 is a weak signal mode, not specifically a low power mode.  Besides, if a really strong signal is clean it shouldn't bother you at all unless for some reason you're trying to operate on the same frequency ... which is a bad strategy on any other mode as well.  The only strong signals that ever bother me are the crappy ones that are six or seven bars wide.  The only way clean strong signals would bother you is if your receiver isn't up to par.

All this complaining about overpowered FT8 signals is misguided ... and nothing is stopping you or anyone else who feels like you do from moving up 2 KHz to a different window.  I assure you that the guys running high power in order to make tough DX contacts aren't going to follow you up there.

I agree for the most part, but I have also found that operating QRP with my QDXv1 has improved my operating skills and added a whole new paradigm to FT8 and made it much less boring to me.   

I now regularly hunt for clear spaces on the waterfall (which can be a challenge on 40m), and closely watch signal propagation on PSK Reporter to determine if a 2 way QSO's are possible   I usually hunt DX signal and using some additional effort, have made contacts to just about every point on the planet that I did operating at higher power.   I really enjoy the challenge, and it has made FT8 interesting for me again.   

I rarely operate at higher power anymore because it just seems too easy.

Ed - KD8YQQ 

Hello Ed,

- I rarely operate at higher power anymore because it just seems too easy.

Is that not the whole point of using QRP in any mode?

73,
Roelof, pa0rdt