ATU-10 reliable eBay seller #antennatuner #ebay


 

Many folks are familiar with the ATU-10 antenna tuner, and suitable/lightweight companion for many QRP transceivers. Also, many folks are rightfully skeptical about buying these from the usual Chinese/eBay sources. I have a happy story:
I ordered an ATU-10 from eBay to accompany my QCX/QDX.  As others have reported many of these have quality components but bad manufacturing (cold solder joints etc.). I too got one of these bum units.

BUT, here is the encouraging story: The seller hison-818 was absolutely great to work with. We went through and ruled out user errors, he understood my configuration in which I was testing the ATU-10 (Rig to ATU-10 to a known good Dummy load with plenty of power capacity). Within 1 day of triarging the problem, he dispatched a new ATU-10 after locally testing it in the same configuration. I received it yesterday (5 days later), worked perfectly. Last night I WSPR'ed with plenty of "hearing k1jbd" reports on WSPRnet. He did not ask for any additional charges, postage or even to return the old unit (which would be very expensive from US to china from a postage point of view).

Based on the above I can highly recommend hison-818, a honest vendor, who has excellent customer service and cares about the customer.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/154675880324

--
73 de k1jbd
bammi


Mike Perry, WA4MP
 

Many thanks! I’ll add another seller to this list of trustworthy Chinese vendors.

I bought one of these ATUs from him and it worked at first. Then after a day or so it quit working at all… nothing at power up. I couldn’t find the problem and contacted him. I admitted that I didn’t know of anything I done that might have caused a problem. I’d kept my power under ten watts, but I could not rule out a mistake I made. He offered to supply me with a replacement interior for free and I agreed. He then sent me a full replacement, case and all. Here he is.

https://www.ebay.com/usr/uellyqh

Here’s that ATU from him. Like you, I cannot recommend him more highly. You might also check out his store. He’s selling other ham gear.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/133850914623

—Mike Perry, WA4MP

On Dec 3, 2021, at 12:57 pm, bammi via groups.io <jbammi@...> wrote:

Many folks are familiar with the ATU-10 antenna tuner, and suitable/lightweight companion for many QRP transceivers. Also, many folks are rightfully skeptical about buying these from the usual Chinese/eBay sources. I have a happy story:
I ordered an ATU-10 from eBay to accompany my QCX/QDX. As others have reported many of these have quality components but bad manufacturing (cold solder joints etc.). I too got one of these bum units.

BUT, here is the encouraging story: The seller hison-818 was absolutely great to work with. We went through and ruled out user errors, he understood my configuration in which I was testing the ATU-10 (Rig to ATU-10 to a known good Dummy load with plenty of power capacity). Within 1 day of triarging the problem, he dispatched a new ATU-10 after locally testing it in the same configuration. I received it yesterday (5 days later), worked perfectly. Last night I WSPR'ed with plenty of "hearing k1jbd" reports on WSPRnet. He did not ask for any additional charges, postage or even to return the old unit (which would be very expensive from US to china from a postage point of view).

Based on the above I can highly recommend hison-818, a honest vendor, who has excellent customer service and cares about the customer.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/154675880324

--
73 de k1jbd
bammi


john terry
 

My story not quite so positive. Ordered first unit through aliexpress. Unit worked well for 1 week, then would boot up but would not read accurate swr or tune. Tried to get return /replacement. Got some chat, but that vendor did not respond to email. I liked the tuner so much, I ordered another unit on ebay. This unit arrived DOA. This time vendor seemed helpful, and has promised a replacement unit, but has not arrived. Construction quality appears good, with relay/toroid section covered in clear gel. Gel stabilizes parts, but prevents troubleshooting and repair.  Bottom line, this unit is terrific when working and at $120, much less than elecraft, but you may experience issues.

On Fri, Dec 3, 2021 at 1:14 PM Mike Perry, WA4MP <editor@...> wrote:
Many thanks! I’ll add another seller to this list of trustworthy Chinese vendors.

I bought one of these ATUs from him and it worked at first. Then after a day or so it quit working at all… nothing at power up. I couldn’t find the problem and contacted him. I admitted that I didn’t know of anything I done that might have caused a problem. I’d kept my power under ten watts, but I could not rule out a mistake I made. He offered to supply me with a replacement interior for free and I agreed. He then sent me a full replacement, case and all. Here he is.

https://www.ebay.com/usr/uellyqh

Here’s that ATU from him. Like you, I cannot recommend him more highly. You might also check out his store. He’s selling other ham gear.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/133850914623

—Mike Perry, WA4MP

> On Dec 3, 2021, at 12:57 pm, bammi via groups.io <jbammi=mac.com@groups.io> wrote:
>
> Many folks are familiar with the ATU-10 antenna tuner, and suitable/lightweight companion for many QRP transceivers. Also, many folks are rightfully skeptical about buying these from the usual Chinese/eBay sources. I have a happy story:
> I ordered an ATU-10 from eBay to accompany my QCX/QDX.  As others have reported many of these have quality components but bad manufacturing (cold solder joints etc.). I too got one of these bum units.
>
> BUT, here is the encouraging story: The seller hison-818 was absolutely great to work with. We went through and ruled out user errors, he understood my configuration in which I was testing the ATU-10 (Rig to ATU-10 to a known good Dummy load with plenty of power capacity). Within 1 day of triarging the problem, he dispatched a new ATU-10 after locally testing it in the same configuration. I received it yesterday (5 days later), worked perfectly. Last night I WSPR'ed with plenty of "hearing k1jbd" reports on WSPRnet. He did not ask for any additional charges, postage or even to return the old unit (which would be very expensive from US to china from a postage point of view).
>
> Based on the above I can highly recommend hison-818, a honest vendor, who has excellent customer service and cares about the customer.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/154675880324
>
> --
> 73 de k1jbd
> bammi
>







Larry Christensen
 

John by the time you bought two ATU-10 that didn’t work you are within $20.00 of an assembled Elecraft T-1 that had super product support. 


John Terry (W0JDT)
 

Thanks for the math lesson.

On Fri, Dec 3, 2021 at 9:54 PM Larry Christensen <ncelarry@...> wrote:
John by the time you bought two ATU-10 that didn’t work you are within $20.00 of an assembled Elecraft T-1 that had super product support. 


Alan G4ZFQ
 

On 04/12/2021 03:53, Larry Christensen wrote:
John by the time you bought two ATU-10 that didn’t work you are within $20.00 of an assembled Elecraft T-1 that had super product support.
I have had a few problems like that with Ebay.
I can only say about
Ebay but you must stick to the Ebay route. Raise an issue. Ask for a refund or replacement. Do not accept any offer from the seller that results in the case being closed.
Once the case is closed then the seller can escape, there is no easy way to reopen it.

Ebay's customer protection works well provided you stick to its rules.
I hope this is the case for other on line market places.

73 Alan G4ZFQ


Bertel Andresen - SM6OES
 

Hi guys.

Sorry for breaking in here.
As a newcomer to QRP, I simply must consult some people that has been around the block a few times.

This ATU-10 seems to be a nice piece of equipment.
I didn't even know they existed.

But, do they really work?
From what I can see on YouTube, it's just a matter of putting out a carrier, press a button, and after some cluttering of the relays, there it is. Like magic.
I saw a guy doing this on a "Slinky" antenna, and got good SWR on every band.
Could this really be possible?

I'm running a QDX WSPR with about 3-4 W output into a Comet HFJ-350M TB currently situated on my balcony and "grounded" in the balcony railing.
It IS possible to tune this antenna using a Nano-VNA, but it means a lot of running back and forth, adjusting the whip length to get the Nano-VNA (and hopefully the QDX) happy.
Could this ATU-10 be useful for this TRX-Antenna setup?
Or perhaps a much simpler antenna, and just using the ATU?
How bad an initial SWR can it handle?
I have tried to find a user manual for this thing, but without luck.

I also notice that there is a ATU-100 model available, for about half the price, witch makes me wonder...
I'm also warned to use that one under 5 W output.

Any further input would be highly appreciated.

BR
SM6OES


David Wilcox K8WPE
 

BR,

I have used automatic tuners in the past, especially those included in my Elecraft rigs.  But to learn antenna tuners I would start out with a manual tuner and your NanoVNA.  I use my MFG manual tuner daily. It has knobs on the coil position and capacitors. I use an antenna analyzer to tune the tuner to 1:1 or slightly higher and write down the positions on the knobs.  Only then do I know that my antenna, feed line and tuner are matched and it is safe to use whatever rig I choose for that frequency. By writing down the positions of the knobs on the manual tuner if I should come back to that frequency with that antenna I know where to start. HERE IS THE LEARNING PART!  IF for some reason the positions of the knobs are not the same with the same antenna and frequency THEN I KNOW the antenna is broken, maybe on the ground, or a branch is rubbing on it, or the feed line has a fault.  I learned this before the automatic tuners were available or affordable (ie. Johnson Matchbox).  With todays rigs and solid state finals they do not tolerate for long a mismatch to the antenna.  

My point is with an automatic tuner until you learn to trust it (I trust my Elecraft T1) you need to use your analyzer to check and make sure the tuner is actually doing what you think it is.  With the manual tuner I can see and read the positions of the knobs each time I use it and verify by the meters in the tuner what the SWR is.  With the automatic ones you don’t know. You just hear the relays click and hope.  It would be nice if they all had a screen with an SWR bridge built in but many don’t. That’s where your NanoVNA comes in.  I use a YouKits FG 01 analyzer and it tells me the SWR and  the impedance.  It’s faster than the NanoVNA but the nano works well. 

This long windy explanation is just for training purposes. Once you know you can trust your automatic tuner and have learned how to actually use a manual tuner and what it really does you will have a good understanding. Then move on to antennas that don’t need tuners but use your analyzer to test and adjust them. Another step in learning how antennas work.

Isn’t this fun?  Also using the Reverse Beacon Network to see really where your signals are going and what your signal strengths are is an eye opener.  Anyone can learn to send two CQs followed by your call letters twice in CW and a K even if your not up to speed with CW.  That is what the Reverse Beacon Network reads and records.  Read the instructions on the site.  I actually send three CQs and my call three times followed by a K. For some reason it works better for me. And sometimes somebody comes back to me to make a contact.  What fun!

Dave K8WPE since 1960

David J. Wilcox’s iPad

On Dec 4, 2021, at 6:12 AM, Bertel Andresen - SM6OES <berand@...> wrote:

Hi guys.

Sorry for breaking in here.
As a newcomer to QRP, I simply must consult some people that has been around the block a few times.

This ATU-10 seems to be a nice piece of equipment.
I didn't even know they existed.

But, do they really work?
From what I can see on YouTube, it's just a matter of putting out a carrier, press a button, and after some cluttering of the relays, there it is. Like magic.
I saw a guy doing this on a "Slinky" antenna, and got good SWR on every band.
Could this really be possible?

I'm running a QDX WSPR with about 3-4 W output into a Comet HFJ-350M TB currently situated on my balcony and "grounded" in the balcony railing.
It IS possible to tune this antenna using a Nano-VNA, but it means a lot of running back and forth, adjusting the whip length to get the Nano-VNA (and hopefully the QDX) happy.
Could this ATU-10 be useful for this TRX-Antenna setup?
Or perhaps a much simpler antenna, and just using the ATU?
How bad an initial SWR can it handle?
I have tried to find a user manual for this thing, but without luck.

I also notice that there is a ATU-100 model available, for about half the price, witch makes me wonder...
I'm also warned to use that one under 5 W output.

Any further input would be highly appreciated.

BR
SM6OES


Bob Benedict, KD8CGH
 

Bartel

  Be careful. I believe that the QDX is very sensitive to antenna load. For example with my QDX:

30 m
into dummy load 1:1 SWR, P= 5.4 watts
into tuned antenna 1.5:1 SWR, P= 6.4 watts (too high for recommended operation)

In other cases with SWR less than 2:1 I saw a power drop. It depends on whether the tuned antenna presents a higher or lower impedance.

My QDX stopped transmitting after I tried to use it to tune my ATU after changing bands. It looks like even a short period of mismatch while tuning can destroy it. I have a remote ATU with memories, so it usually retunes very quickly, but apparently not quickly enough. I replaced the BS170s but still no joy.

There are manual tuners like the QRPGuys 40m-10m Multi-Z Tuner that
"uses the N7VE integral led swr indicator with an absorptive bridge to protect your final transistors from a poor match. In the TUNE position, you cannot damage your transmitter caused by a high SWR. From a shorted antenna to an open antenna, your transmitter is looking at a maximum of 2:1 SWR in the TUNE position."

Also with a manual tuner you can first tune for maximum received noise before transmitting to get you close to the tuned setting before powering on to activate the tuning indicator.
--
  73
    KD8CGH


Curt wb8yyy
 

Bartel

short answer is tuners only address part of the matter of mismatch, and they work best at the antenna feedpoint. A manual or auto tuner at your whips feed could help, but when placed at the rig might address only SWR that are moderately high, perhaps 3:1 decently, or maybe 5:1 if the tuner is really good. Once my elecraft tuner matched my vertical with its cable disconnected demonstrating a happy tuner may not provide useful radiation. If you can obtain a good QRP manual tuner try that first, but a very short antenna needs matching at its feedpoint. 


Curt wb8yyy 


John Terry (W0JDT)
 

I think an auto tuner can be piece of mind on temporary antennas. Before my experience with the ATU-10’s, I had used ATU 100 at home to tune up 30 M on EFHW that was pretty much resonant on other bands, but ATU-100 requires more power and will not respond under 10 watts. ATU-10 when working tunes in 2-3 seconds with low power drain, then virtually no power draw after tune.. Unlike the elecraft tuner plastic case, it has lightweight extruded aluminum case, and clear gel on parts to absorb shocks. It has digital readout of swr before and after tune, digital readout of power, battery charge indicator. It has high capacity recharageable batteries,(use 5v cell phone charger).  resonant antenna is best if you can do it, and EFHW is popular because singled coax connection at end fits many QTHs. I feel like the 7:1 balun used on. EFHW reduces impedence differences and improves tuner function. My problem with the ATU-10 was that my first one stopped tuning after a week, and my second one arrived DOA. If reliability problems can be overcome, I suspect ATU-10 will become the standard QRP tuner.

On Sat, Dec 4, 2021 at 6:54 AM Curt wb8yyy via groups.io <wb8yyy=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Bartel

short answer is tuners only address part of the matter of mismatch, and they work best at the antenna feedpoint. A manual or auto tuner at your whips feed could help, but when placed at the rig might address only SWR that are moderately high, perhaps 3:1 decently, or maybe 5:1 if the tuner is really good. Once my elecraft tuner matched my vertical with its cable disconnected demonstrating a happy tuner may not provide useful radiation. If you can obtain a good QRP manual tuner try that first, but a very short antenna needs matching at its feedpoint. 


Curt wb8yyy 


David Wilcox K8WPE
 

Oh Curt!  You scoundrel…… promoting the fact that a good tuner (like the tuner in my K3 even) will tune its coax even with an antenna not connected.  I found that out a few years ago when my antenna switch was still in the center spot, grounded.  I wondered why there were no signals.  It appears that the tuner will match a wet noodle and a paper clip… 

Anyway, it goes to show that we need to know more about our antennas and tuners other than just push the button and hear the clicks.  I have learned a lot more about my antennas, coax, tuners, etc., since that interesting experience.  The NanoVNA has showed us more than many of us can really understand about antennas, tuners, etc. 

I favor manual tuners, especially the QRP tuners that have some SWR protection because it’s so easy to blow the finals on many of the new  transceivers. And the low power QRP rigs don’t put out enough power to key many of the automatic tuners.

Apparently we all have much to learn about our antennas, tuners, rigs, etc.  I thank all those who have commented on sites like these and contributed to my learning.  Also there are many great books out there that have taught me much.  What a fun hobby.

I have said it so many times to oldies and newbies:  use a manual tuner, learn what your antenna is capable of, then use your nano or whatever to actually understand what you are expecting of your automatic tuner.  I’m not bad mouthing automatic tuners. I do use them.  Just that there is a learning curve to them. It’s more than just pushing a button, hearing the clicks, and getting on the air.  If you’re lucky it may work.  If your automatic tuner (or manual tuner) isn’t working correctly you still might get even a few milliwatts out your antenna AND will be heard by someone somewhere.  (Try it and watch the RBN.) But learn how they all work and measure your output.  You just might be surprised.

Anyone ever used a noise bridge to tune your tuner?  They work too.  Something to study to help your understanding of antennas and tuners.  Or a GDO to adjust the taps on your tuner?  Learning about these things was so much fun and the fun hasn’t stopped. Thanks to all the old Elmers who showed this snot nosed kid how to do these things so many years ago.

Dave K8WPE

David J. Wilcox’s iPad

On Dec 4, 2021, at 7:54 AM, Curt wb8yyy via groups.io <wb8yyy@...> wrote:



Bartel

short answer is tuners only address part of the matter of mismatch, and they work best at the antenna feedpoint. A manual or auto tuner at your whips feed could help, but when placed at the rig might address only SWR that are moderately high, perhaps 3:1 decently, or maybe 5:1 if the tuner is really good. Once my elecraft tuner matched my vertical with its cable disconnected demonstrating a happy tuner may not provide useful radiation. If you can obtain a good QRP manual tuner try that first, but a very short antenna needs matching at its feedpoint. 


Curt wb8yyy 


N3MNT
 

On Sat, Dec 4, 2021 at 06:11 AM, Bertel Andresen - SM6OES wrote:
Hi guys.
I saw a guy doing this on a "Slinky" antenna, and got good SWR on every band.
Could this really be possible?
Getting a good SWR means that the radio is happy with load it is seeing.  It does not mean you are radiating a good signal.


Steve in Okinawa
 

A remote tuner doesn't necessarily work better per se at the feedpoint, but if it works at either end, it gives you more benefit at the feedpoint than at the rig by lowering the VSWR on the whole length of feedline. I had an ATU-100 (yes, past tense) that could not match my elevated 40m groundplane on 30 at the antenna, but had no trouble at the shack end because of the impedance transformation of the feedline. Depending on the length off the feedline, it could have made it harder. In any case, I guess I asked that little tuner to do too much one day, and it went poof. I hope they do address the reliability problems because otherwise it's a nice unit for the price. Somehow more mature but similar designs like the LDG seem to keep working regardless.  73, JS6TMW


Steve in Okinawa
 

AliExpress has vastly improved their customer service and especially policies to help dissatisfied buyers. It still takes time and some palaver but usually they congee through. eBay is excellent but things may change because they are no longer tied up with PayPal. The upside is that new sellers have to get approved by an online mess called Payoneer, so possibly seekers will be more wary of getting cancelled and having to start over again.


Fred Spinner
 

The N7DDC ATU-100 and ATU-10 are both open source designs.  The ATU-100 works--I have built one-- AND with slight changes in the configuration in flash (requires a cheap PIC programmer, like a clone PICKit) and a rewound tandem match when building the ATU-100 will work at QRP levels.   

The 100 uses inexpensive parts, including conventional relays which remain powered on when tuned drawing a fairly substantial amount of current. Bad for portable battery usage.  

The video of the slinky by the way is the designer of these and that is an ATU-100 tuning it. 

The ATU-10 is a redesign by N7DDC to use latching relays and to put the PIC into sleep mode.   The reason it's not a cheap kit like the 100 is because of the latching relays used.  The relays are expensive. But it is an almost zero current drain when tuned design. 

I would consider building a 10 someday as if it did not work the way I wanted, I could hack the open source code.  I do have older PIC programming tools.  I don't like the options out there to buy an ATU-10 right now, either. 

I wish the author would have used and Arduino instead, then as popular as these are they would have been 10x more popular, and no additional hardware would have been needed to reprogram them, including the oddball compiler he used. I am somewhat surprised that someone has not yet ported the code and design over to an AVR and the Arduino IDE.  The software probably would be a weekend project. 

I do give N7DDC credit though, he opened up the C source code logic for a decent autotuner for everyone.  He actually encouraged the Chinese to build his design.  Different philosophy than many I suppose.

You can take his base code and scale it to as many LC components and relays as you wish and build a home built tuner for and power level you want depending on the physical component you choose. 

All the comments of temporary mismatch during tuning are true.  It's ultimately just a bidirectional LC L network, and until it finds a match the rig will see mismatch. 

 Ultimately coming up with a dual voltage power supply into the QDX for a low power initial tune might be the answer.  It's the cost of such a simple design for the transmitter. 

Fred W0FMS 


On Sat, Dec 4, 2021, 6:50 AM N3MNT <bob@...> wrote:
On Sat, Dec 4, 2021 at 06:11 AM, Bertel Andresen - SM6OES wrote:
Hi guys.
I saw a guy doing this on a "Slinky" antenna, and got good SWR on every band.
Could this really be possible?
Getting a good SWR means that the radio is happy with load it is seeing.  It does not mean you are radiating a good signal.


R. Tyson
 

I am surprised at the number of people wanting an automatic ATU. Most of us are using QRP or relatively modest RF power output.

What is wrong with making a suitable ATU, there is nothing magic about them. If the RF output devices are subject to damage with a miss-matched antenna load then the time it takes for an auto ATU to hunt for the correct setting may well be too long and the output devices die a horrible death !

There should be circuits online, or, in the G-QRP Club book "QRP Basics", there is a great design which incorporates a resistive bridge. The bridge is switched in while tuning up so the Tx never sees too high a load. Once tuned up the bridge circuit is switched out for normal transmit. It's a great circuit and the components are easy to get.

If your Ebay super, duper automatic tuner goes wonky then your output devices will probably die before you realise there is a problem with the ATU.

Reg                    G4NFR


R. Tyson
 

Don't think I will ever use Ali Express again. Bought two items off same seller, only one arrived. Contacted him and he asked for a 99 pence payment to send the missing part of the order. Smelling a rat I tried to open a claim ... now that is an exercise in frustration. Takes some ingenuity to get a reply from the site. When you do get a reply it makes no sense and they obviously don't seem to understand what you are saying. I went around and around on their roundabout for some time then gave up and vowed to go elsewhere in future.

For what you might save it is not worth the effort if it goes pear shaped.

Reg                        G4NFR


Mike Besemer - WM4B
 

Some of us have too many irons in the fire already.  Some of us don’t feel like brewing our own anymore.  Some of us have been rolling our own for the past 45 years and now our time is worth more than our money.  Some of us band hop and want an autotuner.  Some of us don’t want to listen to the XYL complaining about how much time we spend in the shop. 

 

I agree with homebrewing when possible, but the fact is that the time it takes to research and order parts is often more expensive than just buying the damn thing in the first place. 

 

Mike

WM4B

 

From: QRPLabs@groups.io [mailto:QRPLabs@groups.io] On Behalf Of R. Tyson via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, December 4, 2021 4:26 PM
To: QRPLabs@groups.io
Subject: Re: [QRPLabs] ATU-10 reliable eBay seller #antennatuner #ebay

 

I am surprised at the number of people wanting an automatic ATU. Most of us are using QRP or relatively modest RF power output.

What is wrong with making a suitable ATU, there is nothing magic about them. If the RF output devices are subject to damage with a miss-matched antenna load then the time it takes for an auto ATU to hunt for the correct setting may well be too long and the output devices die a horrible death !

There should be circuits online, or, in the G-QRP Club book "QRP Basics", there is a great design which incorporates a resistive bridge. The bridge is switched in while tuning up so the Tx never sees too high a load. Once tuned up the bridge circuit is switched out for normal transmit. It's a great circuit and the components are easy to get.

If your Ebay super, duper automatic tuner goes wonky then your output devices will probably die before you realise there is a problem with the ATU.

Reg                    G4NFR


Mike Besemer - WM4B
 

Honestly, I’m sick of China and try to avoid buying from China when I can.

 

Today I received a package containing a SoloStove Smokeless Bonfire Kit.  It cost well North of $200 on-sale and is touted to be one of the best.  On the bottom of the box is stamped ‘Made in China’.  I’ll be taking advantage of their ‘Free Return’ policy and when they ask why I’m returning it, I’ll tell them that it’s because it’s made in China. 

 

I know we can’t avoid them completely – at least not at this juncture – but if more of us refuse to buy their junk then the tide may gradually shift.

 

I know that QPR-Labs stuff is sourced from China and I honestly wish it was not.

 

Mike

WM4B

 

From: QRPLabs@groups.io [mailto:QRPLabs@groups.io] On Behalf Of R. Tyson via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, December 4, 2021 4:39 PM
To: QRPLabs@groups.io
Subject: Re: [QRPLabs] ATU-10 reliable eBay seller #antennatuner #ebay

 

Don't think I will ever use Ali Express again. Bought two items off same seller, only one arrived. Contacted him and he asked for a 99 pence payment to send the missing part of the order. Smelling a rat I tried to open a claim ... now that is an exercise in frustration. Takes some ingenuity to get a reply from the site. When you do get a reply it makes no sense and they obviously don't seem to understand what you are saying. I went around and around on their roundabout for some time then gave up and vowed to go elsewhere in future.

For what you might save it is not worth the effort if it goes pear shaped.

Reg                        G4NFR