QCX+ T1 Toroid Wire Length? #20m #qcx+ #20m #toroid


tron eee
 

Hi,

Hah! So I received the QCX+ package, fast ship, really nice kit.

I read the instructions on how to wind the T1 toroid RF input transformer. I also used a 'shuttle' idea that I learned on utoobski, which works rather nicely To make toroid wire-shuttle, I cut a wood chopstick about 2 1/2 Inches (6,35cm) long, carved a deep V-notch on each end and wound the magnet wire end-to-end on the chopstick into the V-notches. Works good.

Heh heh, the toroid looks really good. It was my very first toroid, but I wound the toroid backwards and the wires don't align properly with the PCB holes! Damn! And as I already cut the loops, I can't unwrap it to rewind it properly.

Once again hah! I found in my goodie box a 1Lb spool of #28 PE enamel wire!

So, anybody know the length of the wire for winding QCX+ T1? I guess I could unwrap it and measure the length?

Thanks in advance (as Hans says...don't be a hero!),

walt - KM6OYH


tron eee
 

All,

Ok...I stopped being lazy and I measured the #28 ga enamel magnet wire peices...34 inches/86,36cm long, fyi.

KM6OYH


tron eee
 

For 20m...


Gary Bernard
 

That's helpful to all. Hans should incorporate lengths of each toroid in Inches and MM.


-----Original Message-----
From: tron eee <troneeee@...>
To: QRPLabs@groups.io
Sent: Sun, Sep 6, 2020 12:08 pm
Subject: Re: [QRPLabs] QCX+ T1 Toroid Wire Length? #20m #qcx+ #toroid

All,

Ok...I stopped being lazy and I measured the #28 ga enamel magnet wire peices...34 inches/86,36cm long, fyi.

KM6OYH



Jim Painter
 

I think the purpose of winding t1 from a single continuous piece of wire is to make sure all 4 winding are wound in the same direction. That insures the proper phase relationship of all 4 windings.

Jim....kq3s

On Sep 6, 2020, at 12:38 PM, tron eee <troneeee@...> wrote:

Hi,

Hah! So I received the QCX+ package, fast ship, really nice kit.

I read the instructions on how to wind the T1 toroid RF input transformer. I also used a 'shuttle' idea that I learned on utoobski, which works rather nicely To make toroid wire-shuttle, I cut a wood chopstick about 2 1/2 Inches (6,35cm) long, carved a deep V-notch on each end and wound the magnet wire end-to-end on the chopstick into the V-notches. Works good.

Heh heh, the toroid looks really good. It was my very first toroid, but I wound the toroid backwards and the wires don't align properly with the PCB holes! Damn! And as I already cut the loops, I can't unwrap it to rewind it properly.

Once again hah! I found in my goodie box a 1Lb spool of #28 PE enamel wire!

So, anybody know the length of the wire for winding QCX+ T1? I guess I could unwrap it and measure the length?

Thanks in advance (as Hans says...don't be a hero!),

walt - KM6OYH



Curt wb8yyy
 

Walt

I respect this toroid is a huge hurdle, but success is sweet.  These windings make this receiver bring signals cleanly into your ears.  if it makes you feel slightly better, I did mine twice from my 80m QCX+. 

There is no right or best technique, but the electric and magnetic fields require all those windings to go the same direction.  So think in you mind they are continuous, just broken into sections.  Now as for how to do it - find what works for you.  Vital that you can clearly see the windings to get them to the proper spot - the nice picture in the QCX+ manual helped me to figure this out, and those lines on the board identify the mounting holes for the separate windings - and the two holes without the line service the single long winding. 

Yes its recommended to do this winding first.  If it helps, wind the other toroids first and set them aside - then go for it,  This transformer with its 4 different windings is a key element of why this receiver sounds so wonderful. 

Sit back and enjoy the build.  if you already have a rig, be patient in working this one.  as needed, the gang here can even inspect your work if you supply a clean picture - but I suspect when you work matches Hans picture you should be just fine. 

73 curt wb8yyy


Syd
 

   I suspect that when winding T1, if you get the primary or the BPF winds wound in the wrong sense, it will have no effect with the circuit. The only windings that must have the right sense are the 180 degree, out of phase , windings into the quad detector! The input winding sense of the transformer has nothing to do with the secondary winding sense, and the BPF winding works alone, so it's sense doesn't matter either.  Only the quad inputs do matter, so they better have the same sense, no matter what the other windings have. 
   That's why I make the large winding first, then install T1, and then add in the other windings, one by one, by soldering the start, winding the turns, and then solder in the end of the winding. It's real easy to get the sense right, all you have to do is look at the input lead of the large winding and see how it was wound into the toroid and do the same for all the other windings and the sense will be correct.  I find this much easier than doing the whole shebang and then trying to figure out what goes where.


Len W1LEN
 

Hi, what is the gauge of the magnet wire supplied with the QCX+ kit for the toroids and transformer?  Also, is there a particular antenna tuner or tuners that have been found to be most useful with the 50 watt linear amplifier?  
Thanks very much, 
Len W1LEN


Bob Ballard
 

Len,

 

Attached above is my input regarding an “antenna tuner” question asked last week.

 

73,

Bob – KG5SQJ

 

From: QRPLabs@groups.io <QRPLabs@groups.io> On Behalf Of Len W1LEN
Sent: Tuesday, September 8, 2020 10:46 AM
To: QRPLabs@groups.io
Subject: Re: [QRPLabs] QCX+ T1 Toroid Wire Length? #20m #qcx+ #toroid

 

Hi, what is the gauge of the magnet wire supplied with the QCX+ kit for the toroids and transformer?  Also, is there a particular antenna tuner or tuners that have been found to be most useful with the 50 watt linear amplifier?  
Thanks very much, 
Len W1LEN


Chuck ke9uw
 

The wire supplied is 28 ga and the length for the 80M T1 T50 large winding is 48 inches. You can scale with that for the other bands. The toroids are T37 instead of T50 so I’m going to guess that the wire required is about 37/50 ths of what they would have been if they were T50s.


Chuck ke9uw
 

I meant the large winding only...not the additional 5 turn windings and the big loops described in the manual. I wound them all separately.


Viktors Miske KC8CKZ
 

KE9UW, give this chart a shot..
https://kitsandparts.com/xtoroids.html


Chuck ke9uw
 

I actually used this...

https://toroids.info/    
took me awhile to find it again. But it’s pretty handy. Just put in the # of turns and press calculate


Al Holt
 

I've been using "mini Ring Core Calculator" (mRCC) software by DL5SWB for toroid winding info. It also has the reverse, turns-to-inductance, mode which then can be plugged into its main calculator to get wire length.

For a 20 meter T1 with 39 turns (30 plus 3-3-3), mRCC reports that as 7.453 uH on a T50-2 core and the length will be 58 cm. I'm going to stick with metric to make adding it all up  easier.

But you need to add the additional loop lengths and the start and end lengths. Hans says have about 3cm for the start length.

For the loops figure between 10 to 15 cm (5-7.5 cm out and back) for each loop. So, worst case here, an extra 45 cm for the three loops. 

That gives us: 5 + 58 + 45 + 5 =  113 cm (~44.5 inches). You'll probably wind up with a few extra cm's, but you bought that spool, right? Always a good idea to have the extra wire!

That's the method I use. PLEASE, check the math and download the software! An extra set of eyes and grey matter always helps!!

Good luck!
 
--Al
WD4AH


geoff M0ORE
 

I really don't know why so many builders seem to have a problem finding out how much wire is needed when winding a toroid.

A simple bit of maths will give you the length required.

Measure the height of the core, then measure the thickness of the core. Add these two measurements together and multiply by two. Now multiply again by the number of turns, add 10% for terminating and loss through the radius of the bends.

DL5SWB passed away in 2014 but his mini programs live on.


On 12/09/2020 13:09, Al Holt wrote:

I've been using "mini Ring Core Calculator" (mRCC) software by DL5SWB for toroid winding info. It also has the reverse, turns-to-inductance, mode which then can be plugged into its main calculator to get wire length.

For a 20 meter T1 with 39 turns (30 plus 3-3-3), mRCC reports that as 7.453 uH on a T50-2 core and the length will be 58 cm. I'm going to stick with metric to make adding it all up  easier.

But you need to add the additional loop lengths and the start and end lengths. Hans says have about 3cm for the start length.

For the loops figure between 10 to 15 cm (5-7.5 cm out and back) for each loop. So, worst case here, an extra 45 cm for the three loops. 

That gives us: 5 + 58 + 45 + 5 =  113 cm (~44.5 inches). You'll probably wind up with a few extra cm's, but you bought that spool, right? Always a good idea to have the extra wire!

That's the method I use. PLEASE, check the math and download the software! An extra set of eyes and grey matter always helps!!

Good luck!
 
--Al
WD4AH


Arv Evans <arvid.evans@...>
 

In absence of a toroid wire length calculator you can simply 
wind 10 turns around your toroid core, unwind it and measure 
the length.  Then divide this by 10 to determine how much 
wire per turn.  Then multiply this by the number of turns to 
determine how much wire you will need for the number of 
turns you will be applying.  

You can do something similar to determine the number of 
turns you will need to obtain a specific inductance.  
Wind 10 turns and measure the inductance.  Divide by 10 
to determined the inductance per turn.  Multiply this by 
the desired inductance to find the turns needed for a 
specific inductance.  This will be close, but not perfect so 
you may have to spread or compress the final winding 
to get an exact value.

Arv
_._


Arv 
_._

On Sat, Sep 12, 2020 at 7:11 AM geoff M0ORE via groups.io <m0ore=tiscali.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:

I really don't know why so many builders seem to have a problem finding out how much wire is needed when winding a toroid.

A simple bit of maths will give you the length required.

Measure the height of the core, then measure the thickness of the core. Add these two measurements together and multiply by two. Now multiply again by the number of turns, add 10% for terminating and loss through the radius of the bends.

DL5SWB passed away in 2014 but his mini programs live on.


On 12/09/2020 13:09, Al Holt wrote:
I've been using "mini Ring Core Calculator" (mRCC) software by DL5SWB for toroid winding info. It also has the reverse, turns-to-inductance, mode which then can be plugged into its main calculator to get wire length.

For a 20 meter T1 with 39 turns (30 plus 3-3-3), mRCC reports that as 7.453 uH on a T50-2 core and the length will be 58 cm. I'm going to stick with metric to make adding it all up  easier.

But you need to add the additional loop lengths and the start and end lengths. Hans says have about 3cm for the start length.

For the loops figure between 10 to 15 cm (5-7.5 cm out and back) for each loop. So, worst case here, an extra 45 cm for the three loops. 

That gives us: 5 + 58 + 45 + 5 =  113 cm (~44.5 inches). You'll probably wind up with a few extra cm's, but you bought that spool, right? Always a good idea to have the extra wire!

That's the method I use. PLEASE, check the math and download the software! An extra set of eyes and grey matter always helps!!

Good luck!
 
--Al
WD4AH


Alan G4ZFQ
 

I really don't know why so many builders seem to have a problem finding out how much wire is needed when winding a toroid.
A simple bit of maths will give you the length required.
I make one turn with the end of the wire, measure it.
The complicated maths is to multiply by the number of turns and add a little for the ends.

73 Alan G4ZFQ


Bob Ballard
 

FWIW - From a new guy who doesn’t have a clue about the details of the electronics –

 

My 20M QCX+ cranked up right away after I built it but it only output 3.1 Watts.  After reading Hans’ commentary regarding what he did to correct the issue on a 30M QCX+, I removed one turn from L3 and squished the turns closer together on L1 and L2.  My result was 4.8 Watts so I’m leaving mine where it is.

 

73,

Bob – KG5SQJ

 

From: QRPLabs@groups.io <QRPLabs@groups.io> On Behalf Of Al Holt
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 7:09 AM
To: QRPLabs@groups.io
Subject: Re: [QRPLabs] QCX+ T1 Toroid Wire Length? #20m #qcx+ #toroid

 

I've been using "mini Ring Core Calculator" (mRCC) software by DL5SWB for toroid winding info. It also has the reverse, turns-to-inductance, mode which then can be plugged into its main calculator to get wire length.

For a 20 meter T1 with 39 turns (30 plus 3-3-3), mRCC reports that as 7.453 uH on a T50-2 core and the length will be 58 cm. I'm going to stick with metric to make adding it all up  easier.

But you need to add the additional loop lengths and the start and end lengths. Hans says have about 3cm for the start length.

For the loops figure between 10 to 15 cm (5-7.5 cm out and back) for each loop. So, worst case here, an extra 45 cm for the three loops. 

That gives us: 5 + 58 + 45 + 5 =  113 cm (~44.5 inches). You'll probably wind up with a few extra cm's, but you bought that spool, right? Always a good idea to have the extra wire!

That's the method I use. PLEASE, check the math and download the software! An extra set of eyes and grey matter always helps!!

Good luck!
 
--Al
WD4AH