Topics

PROGROCK output 10MHz when I started!

David R. Hassall WA5DJJ
 

Dear List,

Built one of my PROGROCKs for use as an oscillator for a transmitter.  When I first turned it on, It finally booted up to the 10,000,000 Hz default in register 4.  I measured the output and found

it was a bit higher than that.  Did the math outlined in section 6.6 and came up with a correction number of 27,004,345 Hz.  Tried to program this value into register 02 (I say tried because I never

did figure out if it got there )  power rest the PROGROCK.  I didn't ever see 10 MHz again.   Now when it decides to output anything it is 6,287,584 Hz.  I tried a register 01 reset to get back to

factory reset.  As far as I can tell that didn't work.  I realize operating this thing is like working JT65.  The response you get is in relation to what you sent and the response tells you where you

are in the process.  With the constant 6,287,548 Hz output, I think I am trying to do a GPS frequency update.  That is a guess from the U3S GPS calibration procedure.  The only thing is I am

not using a GPS board and I don't know now I got here. So, Now I am stuck. 

The other thing I am also trying to figure out is How do you call up a specific Register programmed frequency.  I have read the Instruction sheet from one end to the other and though there is a lot

of information on how to program the different registers.  There doesn't seem to be any instructions to select the different register frequencies.  Maybe I am missing it but I have been through it

three times and didn't see it.

A point one of my friends put to me was, "is there a way to inhibit the oscillator if you want to shut it off while receiving and then turn it back on to transmit.   He is a Boat anchor CW operator who is getting tired of buying FT-243 crystals for all the frequencies he wants to put some of his old transmitters on and thought this might be a good unit to help him skip around the CW portions of the bands with his old Heathkit tube transmitters.  But looking at the schematic, I didn't see one.   Any suggestions here would be appreciated. 

Thanks for the bandwidth,

73 Dave WA5DJJ

Alan
 

On 10/01/2017 22:24, David R. Hassall WA5DJJ wrote:

When I first turned it on, It finally booted up to the 10,000,000 Hz
default in register 4. I measured the output and found
it was a bit higher than that. Did the math outlined in section 6.6 and
came up with a correction number of 27,004,345 Hz. Tried to program
this value into register 02 (I say tried because I never

did figure out if it got there ) power rest the PROGROCK. I didn't
ever see 10 MHz again.
Dave,

Make sure you do not use the numbers printed on the switch but those in the instructions (reversed).
I've never done a reset but it looks as if 0 1 0 is 3 settings of the switch, 3 settings then 4th setting 1111, (all on, enter).

Bank selection needs a similar but 3 pole switch on pins B2, B1, B0.

A point one of my friends put to me was, "is there a way to inhibit the
oscillator if you want to shut it off while receiving and then turn it
back on to transmit.
I do not think so.
One way might be to switch to a very high frequency (or maybe low) so there was no effect on the RX.

73 Alan G4ZFQ



I tried a register 01 reset to get back to


The other thing I am also trying to figure out is How do you call up a
specific Register programmed frequency. I have read the Instruction
sheet from one end to the other and though there is a lot

of information on how to program the different registers. There doesn't
seem to be any instructions to select the different register
frequencies.

A point one of my friends put to me was, "is there a way to inhibit the
oscillator if you want to shut it off while receiving and then turn it
back on to transmit. He is a Boat anchor CW operator who is getting
tired of buying FT-243 crystals for all the frequencies he wants to put
some of his old transmitters on and thought this might be a good unit to
help him skip around the CW portions of the bands with his old Heathkit
tube transmitters. But looking at the schematic, I didn't see one.
Any suggestions here would be appreciated.

Thanks for the bandwidth,

73 Dave WA5DJJ

Hans Summers
 

Hi Dave

I agree with Alan, there may be some error in the way you are keying in the BCD numbers. 
 
The other thing I am also trying to figure out is How do you call up a
specific Register programmed frequency.  I have read the Instruction
sheet from one end to the other and though there is a lot

You have 3 Si5351A outputs. If you choose to use GPS discipline, this consumes one of the Si5351A outputs so then you have 2 only. But let's assume you are not using GPS discipline. So you have 3 outputs. Then there are 8 "banks" of frequencies. You select which of the 8 banks is operational, by the signals you apply to the B0, B1, B2 bank select inputs. There are 8 permutations of "high" (5V) and "low" (0V) that you can apply to these three inputs, therefore selecting one of the 8 banks. It is described in section 5.3 of the manual, which is on page 13.
  
> A point one of my friends put to me was, "is there a way to inhibit the
> oscillator if you want to shut it off while receiving and then turn it
> back on to transmit.

I do not think so.
One way might be to switch to a very high frequency (or maybe low) so there was no effect on the RX.

Yes, there is a way. You use the banks feature. You set it up so that you have an input signal as your "keying" line, and that when active selects banks of frequencies in which you have programmed the desired output frequencies. When the "keying" line is inactive, it should select banks of frequencies which you left at 0. When an output is set to 0Hz, it is simply switched off (thereby inhibiting the oscillator). 

73 Hans G0UPL

David R. Hassall WA5DJJ
 

Dear Alan and Hans,

To clarify which switch is which.  The #1 switch=8, the #2 switch=4, the #3 switch=2, and the #1 switch=1 That is the way I assumed they run.  Judging from your switch setup chart which I did use that is the positions I put in.  I left the three band select inputs disconnected so I would always be in bank 0.  I am going to try again this morning to get it to reset to factory defaults.  I did go back over my circuit board and reheat solder connections in case I had a bad one.  Cleaned the board with Alcohol and a tooth brush to remove any solder whisps that may have remained hidden.

Then try again.

One other question that didn't seem clear.  If I have 10 frequencies stored in the memory registers 05 through 15.  How do I select them for output.   Say this time I want frequency 5 and a few minutes I want frequency 7 and later I want frequency 9.  Somehow, My brain didn't find that once you have the frequenies in the reqisters, How you select them for output?

Thanks for the help.  It is a really neat little block that could have a lot of uses once I figure out how to interface with it.

73 Dave


Alan
 

On 12/01/2017 15:20, David R. Hassall WA5DJJ wrote:
Dear Alan and Hans,

To clarify which switch is which. The #1 switch=8, the #2 switch=4, the
#3 switch=2, and the #1 switch=1 That is the way I assumed they run.
Dave, Yes (Typo #4 switch=1:-)


One other question that didn't seem clear. If I have 10 frequencies
stored in the memory registers 05 through 15.
How do I select them for
output. Say this time I want frequency 5 and a few minutes I want
frequency 7 and later I want frequency 9. Somehow, My brain didn't find
that once you have the frequenies in the reqisters, How you select them
for output?
They are not like that.
Clock 0 The main one. Each has 8 frequencies, look at page 18 of the instructions.
Clock 0 Registers 4, 7, 10, ....
Clock 1 has 8 frequencies Reg, 5, 8, 11.....
And so with Clock 2.
the 3 clocks = one bank.

These 8 banks are selected by switching to ground the 3 pins I mentioned before. So using a single clock output 8 frequencies are available.

73 Alan G4ZFQ

Larry Acklin
 

ProgRock user notes:

I have found that the light=write data OK is not always true, at least on the version of code I have.  I have to re-do the settings several times to get the correct freq. In general, if there is not a noticeable lag on the light going out, I have no confidence the digit was recognised.  It would be nice if the software blinked an acknowledgment (morse K?)  

 I am using it as a BFO replacement in a SSB6.1 bank0/clk0 = AM/CW 
bank1/clk0 = LSB bank2/ clk0 = USB.  I select the registers (04, 07, 10) by no/no/no on s0/1/2 and BCD up from there.

Larry

On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 11:21 AM, Alan via Groups.Io <alan4alan@...> wrote:
On 12/01/2017 15:20, David R. Hassall WA5DJJ wrote:
Dear Alan and Hans,

To clarify which switch is which.  The #1 switch=8, the #2 switch=4, the
#3 switch=2, and the #1 switch=1 That is the way I assumed they run.

Dave, Yes (Typo #4 switch=1:-)


One other question that didn't seem clear.  If I have 10 frequencies
stored in the memory registers 05 through 15.
 How do I select them for
output.   Say this time I want frequency 5 and a few minutes I want
frequency 7 and later I want frequency 9.  Somehow, My brain didn't find
that once you have the frequenies in the reqisters, How you select them
for output?


They are not like that.
Clock 0 The main one. Each has 8 frequencies, look at page 18 of the instructions.
Clock 0 Registers 4, 7, 10, ....
Clock 1 has 8 frequencies Reg, 5, 8, 11.....
And so with Clock 2.
the 3 clocks = one bank.

These 8 banks are selected by switching to ground the 3 pins I mentioned before. So using a single clock output 8 frequencies are available.

73 Alan G4ZFQ







Alan
 

On 12/01/2017 16:44, Larry Acklin wrote:
ProgRock user notes:
I have found that the light=write data OK is not always true, at least
on the version of code I have. I have to re-do the settings several
times to get the correct freq. In general, if there is not a noticeable
lag on the light going out,
Larry,

I wonder if your button needs a firmer press?
I am always aware of a slight delay once I release the button.

73 Alan G4ZFQ

David R. Hassall WA5DJJ
 

Dear Alan and Larry,

I too am seeing a difference in the LED Light duration between the different switch input sets.   I noticed that early on when I tried my first input of data for the frequency correction for register 02.  I thought it was a bit odd.  I guess now is the time to figure out if the long duration indication is the good or bad load.  I would really like to get back to factory default and see 10 MHz again.  So far, I have not been able to get there.  But keep punching away at it.   Thanks for the hint. 

73 Dave WA5DJJ

Larry Acklin
 

key sequence:
Loads register 01 with 0 (factory default)

0000 press 1 sec
0001 press 1 sec
0000 press 1 sec
1111 press 1 secs hould see a longer lag of 1/2 sec)
(0000 and then power cycle)


Larry
That loads factory default

On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 8:36 AM, David R. Hassall WA5DJJ <dhassall@...> wrote:

Dear Alan and Larry,

I too am seeing a difference in the LED Light duration between the different switch input sets.   I noticed that early on when I tried my first input of data for the frequency correction for register 02.  I thought it was a bit odd.  I guess now is the time to figure out if the long duration indication is the good or bad load.  I would really like to get back to factory default and see 10 MHz again.  So far, I have not been able to get there.  But keep punching away at it.   Thanks for the hint. 

73 Dave WA5DJJ


Hans Summers
 

Hi all

I'm not sure all of the advice in this thread about the button pushes is correct. 

The way ProgRock works is that you set the DIP switch how you want. Then give the button a short, sharp, firm, definitive push. Definitely don't hold the button pushed for 1 second! It should only be pressed briefly. 

The LED always lights whenever the button is pushed, because they share the same I/O pin. But when you release the button, if it has been correctly recognised, the LED should stay lit for a further short time. 

You must wait for the LED to go out before pressing the button again to load the next digit. That is worth remembering, if you are programming several identical digits - for example you are often programming in several zeroes. If you wanted to program in 5 zeroes you wouldn't set the DIP switch to 0000 then hit the button 5 times in quick succession. You must press the button, wait for the LED to go out, then press it again, etc like that. Wait for the LED to go out each time. Of course if you are changing the DIP switches that will take you some time anyway and by then the LED will be out ;-)

73 Hans G0UPL

On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 4:42 PM, Larry Acklin <acklin@...> wrote:
key sequence:
Loads register 01 with 0 (factory default)

0000 press 1 sec
0001 press 1 sec
0000 press 1 sec
1111 press 1 secs hould see a longer lag of 1/2 sec)
(0000 and then power cycle)


Larry
That loads factory default

On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 8:36 AM, David R. Hassall WA5DJJ <dhassall@...> wrote:

Dear Alan and Larry,

I too am seeing a difference in the LED Light duration between the different switch input sets.   I noticed that early on when I tried my first input of data for the frequency correction for register 02.  I thought it was a bit odd.  I guess now is the time to figure out if the long duration indication is the good or bad load.  I would really like to get back to factory default and see 10 MHz again.  So far, I have not been able to get there.  But keep punching away at it.   Thanks for the hint. 

73 Dave WA5DJJ



Larry Acklin
 

Ah...
"But when you release the button, if it has been correctly recognised, the LED should stay lit for a further short time." 

OK, that is now explaining why I have had issues.

Larry

On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 9:57 AM, Hans Summers <hans.summers@...> wrote:
Hi all

I'm not sure all of the advice in this thread about the button pushes is correct. 

The way ProgRock works is that you set the DIP switch how you want. Then give the button a short, sharp, firm, definitive push. Definitely don't hold the button pushed for 1 second! It should only be pressed briefly. 

The LED always lights whenever the button is pushed, because they share the same I/O pin. But when you release the button, if it has been correctly recognised, the LED should stay lit for a further short time. 

You must wait for the LED to go out before pressing the button again to load the next digit. That is worth remembering, if you are programming several identical digits - for example you are often programming in several zeroes. If you wanted to program in 5 zeroes you wouldn't set the DIP switch to 0000 then hit the button 5 times in quick succession. You must press the button, wait for the LED to go out, then press it again, etc like that. Wait for the LED to go out each time. Of course if you are changing the DIP switches that will take you some time anyway and by then the LED will be out ;-)

73 Hans G0UPL

On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 4:42 PM, Larry Acklin <acklin@...> wrote:
key sequence:
Loads register 01 with 0 (factory default)

0000 press 1 sec
0001 press 1 sec
0000 press 1 sec
1111 press 1 secs hould see a longer lag of 1/2 sec)
(0000 and then power cycle)


Larry
That loads factory default

On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 8:36 AM, David R. Hassall WA5DJJ <dhassall@...> wrote:

Dear Alan and Larry,

I too am seeing a difference in the LED Light duration between the different switch input sets.   I noticed that early on when I tried my first input of data for the frequency correction for register 02.  I thought it was a bit odd.  I guess now is the time to figure out if the long duration indication is the good or bad load.  I would really like to get back to factory default and see 10 MHz again.  So far, I have not been able to get there.  But keep punching away at it.   Thanks for the hint. 

73 Dave WA5DJJ




David R. Hassall WA5DJJ
 

Dear Hans and Larry,

OK on the sequence.  I will work on my programming technique and see if I can get back to factory defaults.  

I thought I was doing it correctly but will concentrate on the button pushing timing and see if I can get it to work.

Is there any clue to where I am by the fact that the oscillator is putting out the 6,287KHz signal?   All my programing

is being done in Bank 0 and I am only measuring the clock 0 output.   I have no idea what the other outputs are doing. 

73 Dave WA5DJJ

David R. Hassall WA5DJJ
 

Dear Group,

I think that my problem is cured.  I shorted out the GPS Input pins as suggested by an email I received from Mike (mike@...) .  As soon as I did that I did a 01 0 factory reset and my clock 0 output went to something close to 10 MHz.   I went to the procedure for changing the value of the Reference clock value and within two entree's my 10 MHz output is within 2 Hz.  The commanding in the manual is now working correctly.  The error on my part was assuming that if I wasn't using the GPS discipline that I didn't need to ground those 1PPS pins.   I guess that is a fact  that illuded me when I read the line in section 6.6.   Thanks for all the comments from the members of the group.  This always helps when one is out in the weeds and doesn't have a clue where to turn.  Now I will press on to trying to use this module in a project or two. 

Thanks again.

73 Dave WA5DJJ

Robin Midgett
 

Hi Hans, et al,
I've downloaded & read the ProgRock operating manuals from http://qrp-labs.com/progrock.html and I don't find a description of using the banks via the binary select mechanism. I'm confident I know how to do it if it's straightforward BCD, but I haven't found the info in the manual.
Am I missing a manual?

Robin Midgett
 

Scratch that..I found the bank select info. It's in the ASSEMBLY manual for the ProgRock, not the OPERATING manual.

SM7ETW Jan
 

It is not in the operating manual. The information about bank select is in the assembly manual.

Jan