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ProgRock won't program correctly

Floyd Hollister <fhh11@...>
 

I have a ProgRock with program chip pr 1.02. The 1pps pin is grounded,  At first it worked very well and I was able to program it correctly at my desired frequency of 151.700.  Then, it would not program correctly.  By this I mean that attempts to program it to 151.700 MHz would result in what appeared to be random outputs around 277 MHz.  I then used 010enter to return the unit to its factory settings.  This produced the expected 10 MHz output but attempts to change this resulted in outputs around the clock frequency of 27 MHz.  I then replaced the Si 5351A synthesizer board another one and  I had with the same results.  This suggested that there was a problem with the ProgRock motherboard or the pr 1.02 programming chip.  Replacing the pr 1.02 chip with another led to the same result.   

I observe that when I power up the ProgRock, I  get the four flashes indicating successful communications with the synthesizer daughter board. When I then try to enter the frequency using the 4-bit slide switch and pushbutton,  I some times get the desired flashing red response other times I get just solid red light as long as I hold down the pushbutton.  In this manner programming seems to be an unsuccessful random process.  I changed to 4-bit switch with the same result.  I suspect some problem with the debouncing circuit. As mentioned above, the  1 pps pin  has been grounded throughout the above experience. And I am careful to press the pushbutton solidly for about one second. The ProgRock register values may be corrupted but I would expect the 010enter factory reset to set them correctly. Since I am using the slide switch to program I canno look at the register contenets.

Next step will be to build another ProgRock motherboard unless someone can suggest another approach to solving the problem.  Any help would be much appreciated.

Floyd

Bruce K1FFX
 

Hi, Floyd -

If you happen to have access to an Arduino, you might try using the serial device interface which the ProgRock now supports.  I actually never tried to program my ProgRock using the slide switches.  The serial interface, using the little Arduino program which is included in the ProgRock PDF, works very well ... it makes data input very straightforward as well as allowing one to display current register contents.

Best -

Bruce K1FFX

geoff M0ORE
 

Fully agree with programming via the serial port but the Arduino is only being used as a serial to USB adaptor with voltage level adjustment. So much easier than the switch method. Just take a printout of the final setup for future reference.

You may see an error on one of the registers if you do a printout which is causing your problem. Almost impossible to see using the switches.

Geoff

On 18/08/2019 19:25, Bruce K1FFX wrote:
Hi, Floyd -

If you happen to have access to an Arduino, you might try using the serial device interface which the ProgRock now supports.  I actually never tried to program my ProgRock using the slide switches.  The serial interface, using the little Arduino program which is included in the ProgRock PDF, works very well ... it makes data input very straightforward as well as allowing one to display current register contents.

Best -

Bruce K1FFX

Alan de G1FXB
 

As you have substituted the "chip" and DIP switch & the synth daughter board it doesn't leave much else.....

I read the manual instructions as depressing the programming enter button as " do it positively ",
but not for an artificially long period of time else you will clash with the timeout and receive the solid light of death.....
Also you need to ensure the led is extinguished before programming serial bits. See pages 4 &5 of the op's manual
As others indicate, the serial access option make programming a lot more painless.

If all else fails, as sometimes you receive the "all OK" ACK pother times you don't the microprocessors really appreciate a clean power supply.


Alan


On 18/08/2019 16:39, Floyd Hollister wrote:
I have a ProgRock with program chip pr 1.02. The 1pps pin is grounded,? At first it worked very well and I was able to program it correctly at my desired frequency of 151.700.? Then, it would not program correctly.? By this I mean that attempts to program it to 151.700 MHz would result in what appeared to be random outputs around 277 MHz.? I then used 010enter to return the unit to its factory settings.? This produced the expected 10 MHz output but attempts to change this resulted in outputs around the clock frequency of 27 MHz.? I then replaced the Si 5351A synthesizer board another one and? I had with the same results.? This suggested that there was a problem with the ProgRock motherboard or the pr 1.02 programming chip.? Replacing the pr 1.02 chip with another led to the same result.? ?

I observe that when I power up the ProgRock, I? get the four flashes indicating successful communications with the synthesizer daughter board.?When I then try to enter the frequency using the 4-bit slide switch and pushbutton,? I some times get the desired flashing red response other times I get just solid red light as long as I hold down the pushbutton.? In this manner programming seems to be an unsuccessful random process.? I changed to 4-bit switch with the same result.? I suspect some problem with the debouncing circuit. As mentioned above, the? 1 pps pin? has been grounded throughout the above experience. And I am careful to press the pushbutton solidly for about one second. The ProgRock register values may be corrupted but I would expect the 010enter factory reset to set them correctly. Since I am using the slide switch to program I canno look at the register contenets.

Next step will be to build another ProgRock motherboard unless someone can suggest another approach to solving the problem.? Any help would be much appreciated.

Floyd

-- 
Light travels faster than sound this is why 
some people appear bright until you hear them

Floyd Hollister <fhh11@...>
 

Thanks to Bruce, Geoff and Alan.  I appreciate you counsel.  I will dig out an Arduino and see where that leads me.

When I either solve the problem or surrender and build another, I will let the forum know the resolution.

Floyd

Robin Midgett
 

I found that the USB to serial adapter from SparkFun was the ticket to easy programming on the ProgRock. Any terminal program will provide the communications.
Thanks,
Robin Midgett K4IDC


On Sun, Aug 18, 2019 at 6:31 PM Floyd Hollister <fhh11@...> wrote:
Thanks to Bruce, Geoff and Alan.  I appreciate you counsel.  I will dig out an Arduino and see where that leads me.

When I either solve the problem or surrender and build another, I will let the forum know the resolution.

Floyd

geoff M0ORE
 

BEWARE...ProgRock does not using RS232 voltage levels. Proper RS232 has 12 volt logic, ProgRock has 5 volt logic. Hence the suggestion to use the Arduino. The Sparkfun adaptor supports 5 volt logic but others may not.

Geoff

On 19/08/2019 01:29, Robin Midgett wrote:
I found that the USB to serial adapter from SparkFun was the ticket to easy programming on the ProgRock. Any terminal program will provide the communications.
Thanks,
Robin Midgett K4IDC


On Sun, Aug 18, 2019 at 6:31 PM Floyd Hollister <fhh11@...> wrote:
Thanks to Bruce, Geoff and Alan.  I appreciate you counsel.  I will dig out an Arduino and see where that leads me.

When I either solve the problem or surrender and build another, I will let the forum know the resolution.

Floyd

Alan G4ZFQ
 

Floyd Hollister <fhh11@...>
 

I am awaiting delivery of an Arduino.  In the meantime I stubbornly keep trying to program the ProgRock via the switches.  (Isn't this insanity?)  I built 2 more Sythesizers, 2 more Prog Rocks.  Of the two  ProgRocks, one programs sometimes (maybe one out of 20 attempts).  I replaced the bcd slide switches with a high quality hexadecimal thumb-wheel switch from my collection in hope that this would resolve the problem.  A SYMPTOM OF THE PROBLEM:  the red led sometimes does not flash for reasons that are not obvious.  I suspect a problem in debouncing the pushbutton switch, but no easy way to test this.   Does anyone know whether or not the red led should blink 4 times every time a digit is entered?   BTW I have grounded the 1pps input pin

Alan G4ZFQ
 

>Does anyone know whether or not the red led should blink 4 times every time a digit is entered?

Section 2.4 of the manual says it does. And that it is part of the debounce.
If it does not flash then is the pushbutton intermittent?

73 Alan G4ZFQ

Bill Cromwell
 

Hi,

Hexadecimal and BCD are not the same. If you are aware of the differences you might get by using those.

73,

Bill KU8H

On 8/27/19 9:46 AM, Floyd Hollister wrote:
I am awaiting delivery of an Arduino.  In the meantime I stubbornly keep trying to program the ProgRock via the switches.  (Isn't this insanity?)  I built 2 more Sythesizers, 2 more Prog Rocks.  Of the two ProgRocks, one programs sometimes (maybe one out of 20 attempts).  I replaced the bcd slide switches with a high quality hexadecimal thumb-wheel switch from my collection in hope that this would resolve the problem.  A SYMPTOM OF THE PROBLEM:  the red led sometimes does not flash for reasons that are not obvious.  I suspect a problem in debouncing the pushbutton switch, but no easy way to test this.   Does anyone know whether or not the red led should blink 4 times every time a digit is entered?   BTW I have grounded the 1pps input pin
--
bark less - wag more

Alan G4ZFQ
 

On Tue, Aug 27, 2019 at 04:17 PM, Bill Cromwell wrote:
Hexadecimal
Yes, I missed that, it must be BCD

73 Alan G4ZFQ

geoff M0ORE
 

I trust you will have read the user manual thoroughly in which case you will know that you can re-set the EEPROM to factory values.

You might want to do this as you may have set some strange values in one or more of the registers. You don't say which register you are attempting to set.


On 27/08/2019 16:17, Bill Cromwell wrote:
Hi,

Hexadecimal and BCD are not the same. If you are aware of the differences you might get by using those.

73,

Bill  KU8H

On 8/27/19 9:46 AM, Floyd Hollister wrote:
I am awaiting delivery of an Arduino.  In the meantime I stubbornly keep trying to program the ProgRock via the switches.  (Isn't this insanity?)  I built 2 more Sythesizers, 2 more Prog Rocks.  Of the two  ProgRocks, one programs sometimes (maybe one out of 20 attempts).  I replaced the bcd slide switches with a high quality hexadecimal thumb-wheel switch from my collection in hope that this would resolve the problem.  A SYMPTOM OF THE PROBLEM:  the red led sometimes does not flash for reasons that are not obvious.  I suspect a problem in debouncing the pushbutton switch, but no easy way to test this.   Does anyone know whether or not the red led should blink 4 times every time a digit is entered?   BTW I have grounded the 1pps input pin


Floyd Hollister <fhh11@...>
 

Hexadecimal:  The switch I am using produces binary  as follows:  0000  0001 0010 0011 0100 0101 0110 0111 1000 1001 1010 1011 1100 1101 1110 1111. where 1 is a closure and 0 is open circuit.  I am using the 4 bits just as they would be generated by the 4-bit slide switch.  I use 1111 as  "enter"  The problem did not change with or without the use of the thumb-wheel switch.

Factory reset: this works with 010 enter.  The sequence: set wwitch to 0000 Power off.  Power on. 0000 0001 0000 1111 Power off Power on.  Output is 10 MHz, but no change in the problem of setting the frequency to my desired 151700000 MHz.  

Does any one know about the four flashes after each numerical input? What if instead of four flashes, the LED only stays red as long as the button is pushed. Should I just ignore this and keep reentering the number until I get four flashes?

I am trying to enter numbers into register 04  the sequence I am using for 151700000 Hz is set switch to 0000 power off power on (get four flashes) 04151700000 enter (1111). 
The result is unpredictable but once in a while will produce the desired frequency but not repeatedly  and the same with either the 4-bit slide switch or the thumb-wheel switch.  The thumb-wheel switch is somewhat of a distraction and I am only using it because I felt I was literally wearing out the 4-bit switch. (which I also replaced before involving the thumb-wheel switch).

I have an Arduino now so I will try entering the frequency using it.

I will report back results when this is done!

 I still think the root of the problem is debouncing. (Yes I have grounded the 1pps pin).

Thanks for your patience. 

 

geoff M0ORE
 

Why do you think you have a problem with the de-bouncing when no other builder ( including me ) have not had a problem?

If the instructions say you should see four flashes after each button press , then you will see four flashes. If you don't, then you have a problem. Software does not behave intermittently.

I don't understand your sequence quote" The sequence: set wwitch to 0000 Power off.  Power on. 0000 0001 0000 1111 Power off Power on." What is the aim of this sequence?


On 28/08/2019 13:23, Floyd Hollister wrote:
Hexadecimal:  The switch I am using produces binary  as follows:  0000  0001 0010 0011 0100 0101 0110 0111 1000 1001 1010 1011 1100 1101 1110 1111. where 1 is a closure and 0 is open circuit.  I am using the 4 bits just as they would be generated by the 4-bit slide switch.  I use 1111 as  "enter"  The problem did not change with or without the use of the thumb-wheel switch.

Factory reset: this works with 010 enter.  The sequence: set wwitch to 0000 Power off.  Power on. 0000 0001 0000 1111 Power off Power on.  Output is 10 MHz, but no change in the problem of setting the frequency to my desired 151700000 MHz.  

Does any one know about the four flashes after each numerical input? What if instead of four flashes, the LED only stays red as long as the button is pushed. Should I just ignore this and keep reentering the number until I get four flashes?

I am trying to enter numbers into register 04  the sequence I am using for 151700000 Hz is set switch to 0000 power off power on (get four flashes) 04151700000 enter (1111). 
The result is unpredictable but once in a while will produce the desired frequency but not repeatedly  and the same with either the 4-bit slide switch or the thumb-wheel switch.  The thumb-wheel switch is somewhat of a distraction and I am only using it because I felt I was literally wearing out the 4-bit switch. (which I also replaced before involving the thumb-wheel switch).

I have an Arduino now so I will try entering the frequency using it.

I will report back results when this is done!

 I still think the root of the problem is debouncing. (Yes I have grounded the 1pps pin).

Thanks for your patience. 

 

geoff M0ORE
 

OK, just realised what the sentence means. My error.

On 28/08/2019 13:55, geoff M0ORE via Groups.Io wrote:

Why do you think you have a problem with the de-bouncing when no other builder ( including me ) have not had a problem?

If the instructions say you should see four flashes after each button press , then you will see four flashes. If you don't, then you have a problem. Software does not behave intermittently.

I don't understand your sequence quote" The sequence: set wwitch to 0000 Power off.  Power on. 0000 0001 0000 1111 Power off Power on." What is the aim of this sequence?


On 28/08/2019 13:23, Floyd Hollister wrote:
Hexadecimal:  The switch I am using produces binary  as follows:  0000  0001 0010 0011 0100 0101 0110 0111 1000 1001 1010 1011 1100 1101 1110 1111. where 1 is a closure and 0 is open circuit.  I am using the 4 bits just as they would be generated by the 4-bit slide switch.  I use 1111 as  "enter"  The problem did not change with or without the use of the thumb-wheel switch.

Factory reset: this works with 010 enter.  The sequence: set wwitch to 0000 Power off.  Power on. 0000 0001 0000 1111 Power off Power on.  Output is 10 MHz, but no change in the problem of setting the frequency to my desired 151700000 MHz.  

Does any one know about the four flashes after each numerical input? What if instead of four flashes, the LED only stays red as long as the button is pushed. Should I just ignore this and keep reentering the number until I get four flashes?

I am trying to enter numbers into register 04  the sequence I am using for 151700000 Hz is set switch to 0000 power off power on (get four flashes) 04151700000 enter (1111). 
The result is unpredictable but once in a while will produce the desired frequency but not repeatedly  and the same with either the 4-bit slide switch or the thumb-wheel switch.  The thumb-wheel switch is somewhat of a distraction and I am only using it because I felt I was literally wearing out the 4-bit switch. (which I also replaced before involving the thumb-wheel switch).

I have an Arduino now so I will try entering the frequency using it.

I will report back results when this is done!

 I still think the root of the problem is debouncing. (Yes I have grounded the 1pps pin).

Thanks for your patience. 

 

Floyd Hollister <fhh11@...>
 

Goeff,

I am making progress.  The problem seems to be how I am pressing the pushbutton switch.  I was apparently pressing it too long. I am having much better luck by a quick jab.

The aim of the sequence is to reset the ProgRock to its factory settings.  by entering 010enter.

I am now preparing to use my computer and an Arduino to do the programming. 

Thanks for your assistance.

Floyd