Topics

QCX with remote antenna #qcx #antenna

Ted 2E0THH
 

I am fairly new to amateur radio and currently studying for my advanced (final) licence here in the UK. I've had my amazing QCX40 operational for about 6 months now.

Whereas I am lucky to live in a beautiful village in the rural Suffolk countryside in the UK, any wire aloft is a complete no-no. I've tried all sorts of stealth antenna around the our house but unfortunately the roof is covered with chicken wire to keep out rodents and birds rendering all antennae near it useless. I actually have a 40m dipole hidden in a long beech hedge but as this is only a metre off the ground in the hedge, this is also producing very limited results.

However I could certainly get a lot of wire VERY aloft in some trees about half a mile away.
This got me thinking and forgive me if this is a well known subject, has anyone ever devised a remote non-internet system to utilise an antenna at such a distance?

73s from a very soggy UK

Ted  2E0THH

Hal Dale
 

If all that chicken wire is NOT grounded, use a end fed wire tuner and try loading into it....Hal/WB4AEG


---- On Thu, 13 Jun 2019 11:24:54 -0400 <qrp@...> wrote ----

I am fairly new to amateur radio and currently studying for my advanced (final) licence here in the UK. I've had my amazing QCX40 operational for about 6 months now.

Whereas I am lucky to live in a beautiful village in the rural Suffolk countryside in the UK, any wire aloft is a complete no-no. I've tried all sorts of stealth antenna around the our house but unfortunately the roof is covered with chicken wire to keep out rodents and birds rendering all antennae near it useless. I actually have a 40m dipole hidden in a long beech hedge but as this is only a metre off the ground in the hedge, this is also producing very limited results.

However I could certainly get a lot of wire VERY aloft in some trees about half a mile away.
This got me thinking and forgive me if this is a well known subject, has anyone ever devised a remote non-internet system to utilise an antenna at such a distance?

73s from a very soggy UK

Ted  2E0THH




Chris Wilson
 

Hello QRPLabs,

Thursday, June 13, 2019

You could probably do it with a microwave link if the antenna site
has power and line of site to the house, but then you need a dish on
the house... Would a patriotic flag pole be allowed, a fibreglass flag
pole could hide a vertical wire within very nicely...


Best regards,
Chris 2E0ILY mailto:chris@...


qrc> I am fairly new to amateur radio and currently studying for my
qrc> advanced (final) licence here in the UK. I've had my amazing
qrc> QCX40 operational for about 6 months now.

qrc> Whereas I am lucky to live in a beautiful village in the rural
qrc> Suffolk countryside in the UK, any wire aloft is a complete
qrc> no-no. I've tried all sorts of stealth antenna around the our
qrc> house but unfortunately the roof is covered with chicken wire to
qrc> keep out rodents and birds rendering all antennae near it
qrc> useless. I actually have a 40m dipole hidden in a long beech
qrc> hedge but as this is only a metre off the ground in the hedge,
qrc> this is also producing very limited results.

qrc> However I could certainly get a lot of wire VERY aloft in some trees about half a mile away.
qrc> This got me thinking and forgive me if this is a well known
qrc> subject, has anyone ever devised a remote non-internet system to
qrc> utilise an antenna at such a distance?

qrc> 73s from a very soggy UK

qrc> Ted 2E0THH



--
Best regards, Chris Wilson (2E0ILY)

Jim - KJ7EZN
 

I use a vertical based on the QRP Guys triband which is based on a design by Joe Everhart, N2CX .  I use a 20 foot telescoping surf fishing rod by Shakespeare and called a Wonderpole ($20) as the method of raising the wire.  The holder and the ground plane can stay in the ground and the pole can be attached in minutes when you want to work.
--
Jim, KJ7EZN    73!

Shirley Dulcey KE1L
 

The easiest way to set up a remote operation setup like that would be
to use a WiFi link to the remote site. For a link that length you will
need gain antennas at each end; Yagis or homemade Pringles can
antennas should do, you won't need dishes. (On the other hand, a dish
might be more acceptable to the neighbors because you can pretend it's
a satellite TV antenna. Most neighbors won't notice the subtle problem
that it's pointed in the wrong direction.) Here in the US, part of
the WiFi unlicensed band is also an amateur radio allocation, so you
can use gain antennas and (if needed) higher transmitter power
legally; I can't speak to the regulations in the UK.

At the remote end you will need a radio that is designed for remote
computer control. So far there isn't much among inexpensive QRP
radios. The QCX is not designed for computer control; the upcoming QSX
will be. Just about all modern transceivers from the big name brands
allow computer control.

The other challenge may be getting power to the remote location, as
your spot in the woods is likely not connected to the power grid. For
QRP you could carry a charged battery over to the remote site and get
in a few hours of operation - but remember that it will have to power
the WiFi router as well as whatever ham radio gear you put there. And
it will limit your choices of radio at the remote end because of the
need for low power consumption; an Elecraft K2, KX2, or KX3, or the
hard-to-find discontinued Icom IC-703 would be good (or a QSX when you
can get it!).

Finally, make sure you follow all applicable rules for remote
operation of a ham station.

On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 12:18 PM jhowell39 via Groups.Io
<jhowell39=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

I use a vertical based on the QRP Guys triband which is based on a design by Joe Everhart, N2CX . I use a 20 foot telescoping surf fishing rod by Shakespeare and called a Wonderpole ($20) as the method of raising the wire. The holder and the ground plane can stay in the ground and the pole can be attached in minutes when you want to work.
--
Jim, KJ7EZN 73!

Alan de G1FXB
 

Ted,

I live in estate semi's, antenna restrictions are not necessary prohibitive. Just need ingenuity, but you can get full sized antennas up.....
Offer to "clean" the neighbours gutters the same time as yours and? perhaps you could fit? dipoles or construct a loop antenna,
doesn't have to be resonant, open wire fed for low loss & balanced match box
Run the dipole wire in the gutter or behind the plastic clips on the sofit?.

If it's thatched roof & the chicken wire is not earthed to anything then feed that against earth & you will have a better antenna than most of us can achieve....

Your hedge antenna may work better configured as an end fed wire rather than a dipole due to being so close to the ground.
Forward units of the military use wires trailed across the ground, when they need to keep their heads down.
It's being refined for HAM use google Grasswire Antenna or http://f5ad.free.fr/Liens_coupes_ANT/G/K3MT%20Antenne%20gazon.htm


Alan


On 13/06/2019 16:24, qrp@... wrote:
I am fairly new to amateur radio and currently studying for my advanced (final) licence here in the UK. I've had my amazing QCX40 operational for about 6 months now.

Whereas I am lucky to live in a beautiful village in the rural Suffolk countryside in the UK, any wire aloft is a complete no-no. I've tried all sorts of stealth antenna around the our house but unfortunately the roof is covered with chicken wire to keep out rodents and birds rendering all antennae near it useless. I actually have a 40m dipole hidden in a long beech hedge but as this is only a metre off the ground in the hedge, this is also producing very limited results.

However I could certainly get a lot of wire VERY aloft in some trees about half a mile away.
This got me thinking and forgive me if this is a well known subject, has anyone ever devised a remote non-internet system to utilise an antenna at such a distance?

73s from a very soggy UK

Ted? 2E0THH

John
 

Maybe it has something to do with where it is being shipped from. I have bought things from a number of different countries around the world and can’t remember not having numerous notifications. I will just have to go on to something else until it arrives. Thanks to all who responded.

 

73’s to all. John K2JHU…

Roy Appleton
 

Duh??


On Thu, Jun 13, 2019, 1:43 PM John <johnk2jhu@...> wrote:

Maybe it has something to do with where it is being shipped from. I have bought things from a number of different countries around the world and can’t remember not having numerous notifications. I will just have to go on to something else until it arrives. Thanks to all who responded.

 

73’s to all. John K2JHU…

Ted 2E0THH
 

Many thanks all for your feedback

Alan & Hal
A very educated guess, it is a thatched cottage! 
I had never considered using the wire covering as an antenna, I presume 5 watts is never going to create any fire hazard (we get somewhat nervous about such things).
So coax from my ZM-1 antenna matcher to the lowest point of the wire (which is just outside the window) and then run the shield from there to ground?
I actually have an earthing rod sunk at precisely the right location.

I will also study that ground antenna link Alan, thank you

Ted


On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 07:03 PM, Alan de G1FXB wrote:
Ted,

I live in estate semi's, antenna restrictions are not necessary prohibitive. Just need ingenuity, but you can get full sized antennas up.....
Offer to "clean" the neighbours gutters the same time as yours and? perhaps you could fit? dipoles or construct a loop antenna,
doesn't have to be resonant, open wire fed for low loss & balanced match box
Run the dipole wire in the gutter or behind the plastic clips on the sofit?.

If it's thatched roof & the chicken wire is not earthed to anything then feed that against earth & you will have a better antenna than most of us can achieve....

Your hedge antenna may work better configured as an end fed wire rather than a dipole due to being so close to the ground.
Forward units of the military use wires trailed across the ground, when they need to keep their heads down.
It's being refined for HAM use google Grasswire Antenna or http://f5ad.free.fr/Liens_coupes_ANT/G/K3MT%20Antenne%20gazon.htm


Alan


On 13/06/2019 16:24, qrp@... wrote:
I am fairly new to amateur radio and currently studying for my advanced (final) licence here in the UK. I've had my amazing QCX40 operational for about 6 months now.

Whereas I am lucky to live in a beautiful village in the rural Suffolk countryside in the UK, any wire aloft is a complete no-no. I've tried all sorts of stealth antenna around the our house but unfortunately the roof is covered with chicken wire to keep out rodents and birds rendering all antennae near it useless. I actually have a 40m dipole hidden in a long beech hedge but as this is only a metre off the ground in the hedge, this is also producing very limited results.

However I could certainly get a lot of wire VERY aloft in some trees about half a mile away.
This got me thinking and forgive me if this is a well known subject, has anyone ever devised a remote non-internet system to utilise an antenna at such a distance?

73s from a very soggy UK

Ted? 2E0THH

Alan de G1FXB
 

Ted,

I have seen the mesh round just the perimeter eaves, and also others covering the complete roof,
either way expect it to be as installed by the roofer and has no requirement for it all to be electrically bonded unless you take the trouble to verify it.
Presumably its galvanised wire, do they paint it black or does it weather that quickly?
if it's fairly new it should be possible to remove some paint if necessary and weave a bonding wire through the free ends etc for bonding.
If galvanised then probably iron wire if you scrape the zinc it will solder. Watch the fumes, they will be poisonous and if using a blow torch.....
If it's older it will probably harder to get a reliable electrical connection and require more ingenuity.
If they go small enough, perhaps look at the galvanised fastenings used for wire rope.
If all else fails throw some black PVC coated copper wire over the roof and forget all about the mesh.

As an initial proof of concept, use an alligator clip onto the mesh,
I suspect with the recent weather there is a minimal risk of fire.
QRP & having everything either like bonded as the aerial and away from other metallic structures as possible you should be fine.
If your mains power service is by overhead wires, do they do anything "special" near the roof covering?
You will have the same disadvantages as any antenna mounted close to a dwelling with pick up of man made interference etc, possibly both ways.
You will never know how good / bad unless you try it.....


There are other types of "ground" antennas, also google transmitting beverage to name just one other type.
They work best many wavelengths long but any wire is better than none.


You just missed two East Anglian Rallies in the last two weeks, the RSGB bookshop do some good antenna books,
the older based ones are good for both theory and practical designs.
Everyone clambers for the latest publication but? I find the new ones just concentrate on the practical construction details and not what makes it work.
If you intend to buy one, I would try to get a hands on look, and compare at least the contents pages.
Many of the books have the same or minimal changes to the designs to another book by another author,
and perhaps only two or three "new" designs to warrant buying more than one tittle.
?


Alan


On 13/06/2019 22:13, qrp@... wrote:
Many thanks all for your feedback

Alan & Hal
A very educated guess, it is a thatched cottage!?
I had never considered using the wire covering as an antenna, I presume 5 watts is never going to create any fire hazard (we get somewhat nervous about such things).
So coax from my ZM-1 antenna matcher to the lowest point of the wire (which is just outside the window) and then run the shield from there to ground?
I actually have an earthing rod sunk at precisely the right location.

I will also study that ground antenna link Alan, thank you

Ted


On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 07:03 PM, Alan de G1FXB wrote:
Ted,

I live in estate semi's, antenna restrictions are not necessary prohibitive. Just need ingenuity, but you can get full sized antennas up.....
Offer to "clean" the neighbours gutters the same time as yours and? perhaps you could fit? dipoles or construct a loop antenna,
doesn't have to be resonant, open wire fed for low loss & balanced match box
Run the dipole wire in the gutter or behind the plastic clips on the sofit?.

If it's thatched roof & the chicken wire is not earthed to anything then feed that against earth & you will have a better antenna than most of us can achieve....

Your hedge antenna may work better configured as an end fed wire rather than a dipole due to being so close to the ground.
Forward units of the military use wires trailed across the ground, when they need to keep their heads down.
It's being refined for HAM use google Grasswire Antenna or http://f5ad.free.fr/Liens_coupes_ANT/G/K3MT%20Antenne%20gazon.htm


Alan


On 13/06/2019 16:24, qrp@... wrote:
I am fairly new to amateur radio and currently studying for my advanced (final) licence here in the UK. I've had my amazing QCX40 operational for about 6 months now.

Whereas I am lucky to live in a beautiful village in the rural Suffolk countryside in the UK, any wire aloft is a complete no-no. I've tried all sorts of stealth antenna around the our house but unfortunately the roof is covered with chicken wire to keep out rodents and birds rendering all antennae near it useless. I actually have a 40m dipole hidden in a long beech hedge but as this is only a metre off the ground in the hedge, this is also producing very limited results.

However I could certainly get a lot of wire VERY aloft in some trees about half a mile away.
This got me thinking and forgive me if this is a well known subject, has anyone ever devised a remote non-internet system to utilise an antenna at such a distance?

73s from a very soggy UK

Ted? 2E0THH

David Wilcox
 

Here is the “Antenna Guide” from The Villages in Florida.  It is a restricted HOA community but the local radio club has designed a manual with many kinds of antennas that can safely be used there.

On Jun 13, 2019, at 7:42 PM, Alan de G1FXB via Groups.Io <g1fxb@...> wrote:

Ted,

I have seen the mesh round just the perimeter eaves, and also others covering the complete roof,
either way expect it to be as installed by the roofer and has no requirement for it all to be electrically bonded unless you take the trouble to verify it.
Presumably its galvanised wire, do they paint it black or does it weather that quickly?
if it's fairly new it should be possible to remove some paint if necessary and weave a bonding wire through the free ends etc for bonding.
If galvanised then probably iron wire if you scrape the zinc it will solder. Watch the fumes, they will be poisonous and if using a blow torch.....
If it's older it will probably harder to get a reliable electrical connection and require more ingenuity.
If they go small enough, perhaps look at the galvanised fastenings used for wire rope.
If all else fails throw some black PVC coated copper wire over the roof and forget all about the mesh.

As an initial proof of concept, use an alligator clip onto the mesh,
I suspect with the recent weather there is a minimal risk of fire.
QRP & having everything either like bonded as the aerial and away from other metallic structures as possible you should be fine.
If your mains power service is by overhead wires, do they do anything "special" near the roof covering?
You will have the same disadvantages as any antenna mounted close to a dwelling with pick up of man made interference etc, possibly both ways.
You will never know how good / bad unless you try it.....


There are other types of "ground" antennas, also google transmitting beverage to name just one other type.
They work best many wavelengths long but any wire is better than none.


You just missed two East Anglian Rallies in the last two weeks, the RSGB bookshop do some good antenna books,
the older based ones are good for both theory and practical designs.
Everyone clambers for the latest publication but? I find the new ones just concentrate on the practical construction details and not what makes it work.
If you intend to buy one, I would try to get a hands on look, and compare at least the contents pages.
Many of the books have the same or minimal changes to the designs to another book by another author,
and perhaps only two or three "new" designs to warrant buying more than one tittle.
?


Alan


On 13/06/2019 22:13, qrp@... wrote:
Many thanks all for your feedback

Alan & Hal
A very educated guess, it is a thatched cottage!?
I had never considered using the wire covering as an antenna, I presume 5 watts is never going to create any fire hazard (we get somewhat nervous about such things).
So coax from my ZM-1 antenna matcher to the lowest point of the wire (which is just outside the window) and then run the shield from there to ground?
I actually have an earthing rod sunk at precisely the right location.

I will also study that ground antenna link Alan, thank you

Ted


On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 07:03 PM, Alan de G1FXB wrote:
Ted,

I live in estate semi's, antenna restrictions are not necessary prohibitive. Just need ingenuity, but you can get full sized antennas up.....
Offer to "clean" the neighbours gutters the same time as yours and? perhaps you could fit? dipoles or construct a loop antenna,
doesn't have to be resonant, open wire fed for low loss & balanced match box
Run the dipole wire in the gutter or behind the plastic clips on the sofit?.

If it's thatched roof & the chicken wire is not earthed to anything then feed that against earth & you will have a better antenna than most of us can achieve....

Your hedge antenna may work better configured as an end fed wire rather than a dipole due to being so close to the ground.
Forward units of the military use wires trailed across the ground, when they need to keep their heads down.
It's being refined for HAM use google Grasswire Antenna or http://f5ad.free.fr/Liens_coupes_ANT/G/K3MT%20Antenne%20gazon.htm


Alan


On 13/06/2019 16:24, qrp@... wrote:
I am fairly new to amateur radio and currently studying for my advanced (final) licence here in the UK. I've had my amazing QCX40 operational for about 6 months now.

Whereas I am lucky to live in a beautiful village in the rural Suffolk countryside in the UK, any wire aloft is a complete no-no. I've tried all sorts of stealth antenna around the our house but unfortunately the roof is covered with chicken wire to keep out rodents and birds rendering all antennae near it useless. I actually have a 40m dipole hidden in a long beech hedge but as this is only a metre off the ground in the hedge, this is also producing very limited results.

However I could certainly get a lot of wire VERY aloft in some trees about half a mile away.
This got me thinking and forgive me if this is a well known subject, has anyone ever devised a remote non-internet system to utilise an antenna at such a distance?

73s from a very soggy UK

Ted? 2E0THH

John Kirby
 

Love that Grass Wire End Fed Long Wire
TWO thumbs up !!!
John
N3AAZ

jjpurdum
 

It's nice to see this kind of cooperation from an HOA. I lived in a community that simply said "No external antennas of any kind"...period. I went to the next HOA meeting with pictures of a vertical antenna and told how it would not be visible at all from the front of the house, and the back of the house was all forest with no one living there. Before the meeting, I talked with both neighbors on either side of me,  since it would be visible to them. I showed them pictures of what I was going to put up, and asked if they were okay with that. They said yes. I went to the meeting, presented my pictures, said I had the neighbors permission, and also emphasized the emergency comms aspect of the hobby. After my presentation, I dug my heels in and prepared for battle.

Crickets...

The HOA voted and in less than a minute after my presentation I had their permission. I think what HOA's are trying to prevent are the 80' towers with a huge yagi on top. Also, many people are not aware of the emergency aspect of ham radio, which I would think would be an easy, albeit important, selling point in FL. If you took in a piece of black coated antenna wire and held it up, and told them that this is the main part of the antenna, you could dispel the "ugly" image they likely have of what an amateur radio antenna looks like. While you may wish for a yagi 200' atop a tower, settle for what you can get and present it to the Board. After all, Custer took a chance...what have you got to lose?

Jack, W8TEE


On Friday, June 14, 2019, 5:11:54 AM EDT, David Wilcox via Groups.Io <Djwilcox01@...> wrote:


Here is the “Antenna Guide” from The Villages in Florida.  It is a restricted HOA community but the local radio club has designed a manual with many kinds of antennas that can safely be used there.

https://www.k4vrc.com/uploads/1/0/1/5/10156032/present-tvarc_antenna_guide.pdf

David J. Wilcox K8WPE’s iPad

On Jun 13, 2019, at 7:42 PM, Alan de G1FXB via Groups.Io <g1fxb@...> wrote:

Ted,

I have seen the mesh round just the perimeter eaves, and also others covering the complete roof,
either way expect it to be as installed by the roofer and has no requirement for it all to be electrically bonded unless you take the trouble to verify it.
Presumably its galvanised wire, do they paint it black or does it weather that quickly?
if it's fairly new it should be possible to remove some paint if necessary and weave a bonding wire through the free ends etc for bonding.
If galvanised then probably iron wire if you scrape the zinc it will solder. Watch the fumes, they will be poisonous and if using a blow torch.....
If it's older it will probably harder to get a reliable electrical connection and require more ingenuity.
If they go small enough, perhaps look at the galvanised fastenings used for wire rope.
If all else fails throw some black PVC coated copper wire over the roof and forget all about the mesh.

As an initial proof of concept, use an alligator clip onto the mesh,
I suspect with the recent weather there is a minimal risk of fire.
QRP & having everything either like bonded as the aerial and away from other metallic structures as possible you should be fine.
If your mains power service is by overhead wires, do they do anything "special" near the roof covering?
You will have the same disadvantages as any antenna mounted close to a dwelling with pick up of man made interference etc, possibly both ways.
You will never know how good / bad unless you try it.....


There are other types of "ground" antennas, also google transmitting beverage to name just one other type.
They work best many wavelengths long but any wire is better than none.


You just missed two East Anglian Rallies in the last two weeks, the RSGB bookshop do some good antenna books,
the older based ones are good for both theory and practical designs.
Everyone clambers for the latest publication but? I find the new ones just concentrate on the practical construction details and not what makes it work.
If you intend to buy one, I would try to get a hands on look, and compare at least the contents pages.
Many of the books have the same or minimal changes to the designs to another book by another author,
and perhaps only two or three "new" designs to warrant buying more than one tittle.
?


Alan


On 13/06/2019 22:13, qrp@... wrote:
Many thanks all for your feedback

Alan & Hal
A very educated guess, it is a thatched cottage!?
I had never considered using the wire covering as an antenna, I presume 5 watts is never going to create any fire hazard (we get somewhat nervous about such things).
So coax from my ZM-1 antenna matcher to the lowest point of the wire (which is just outside the window) and then run the shield from there to ground?
I actually have an earthing rod sunk at precisely the right location.

I will also study that ground antenna link Alan, thank you

Ted


On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 07:03 PM, Alan de G1FXB wrote:
Ted,

I live in estate semi's, antenna restrictions are not necessary prohibitive. Just need ingenuity, but you can get full sized antennas up.....
Offer to "clean" the neighbours gutters the same time as yours and? perhaps you could fit? dipoles or construct a loop antenna,
doesn't have to be resonant, open wire fed for low loss & balanced match box
Run the dipole wire in the gutter or behind the plastic clips on the sofit?.

If it's thatched roof & the chicken wire is not earthed to anything then feed that against earth & you will have a better antenna than most of us can achieve....

Your hedge antenna may work better configured as an end fed wire rather than a dipole due to being so close to the ground.
Forward units of the military use wires trailed across the ground, when they need to keep their heads down.
It's being refined for HAM use google Grasswire Antenna or http://f5ad.free.fr/Liens_coupes_ANT/G/K3MT%20Antenne%20gazon.htm


Alan


On 13/06/2019 16:24, qrp@... wrote:
I am fairly new to amateur radio and currently studying for my advanced (final) licence here in the UK. I've had my amazing QCX40 operational for about 6 months now.

Whereas I am lucky to live in a beautiful village in the rural Suffolk countryside in the UK, any wire aloft is a complete no-no. I've tried all sorts of stealth antenna around the our house but unfortunately the roof is covered with chicken wire to keep out rodents and birds rendering all antennae near it useless. I actually have a 40m dipole hidden in a long beech hedge but as this is only a metre off the ground in the hedge, this is also producing very limited results.

However I could certainly get a lot of wire VERY aloft in some trees about half a mile away.
This got me thinking and forgive me if this is a well known subject, has anyone ever devised a remote non-internet system to utilise an antenna at such a distance?

73s from a very soggy UK

Ted? 2E0THH

jmh6@...
 

Hi Jack :),

LOL! Why just 80 feet :). Dual 200 ft. towers sounds about right!!

John

On Fri, 14 Jun 2019, jjpurdum via Groups.Io wrote:

It's nice to see this kind of cooperation from an HOA. I lived in a
community that simply said "No external antennas of any kind"...period. I
went to the next HOA meeting with pictures of a vertical antenna and told
how it would not be visible at all from the front of the house, and the back
of the house was all forest with no one living there. Before the meeting, I
talked with both neighbors on either side of me,  since it would be visible
to them. I showed them pictures of what I was going to put up, and asked if
they were okay with that. They said yes. I went to the meeting, presented my
pictures, said I had the neighbors permission, and also emphasized the
emergency comms aspect of the hobby. After my presentation, I dug my heels
in and prepared for battle.
Crickets...
The HOA voted and in less than a minute after my presentation I had their
permission. I think what HOA's are trying to prevent are the 80' towers with
a huge yagi on top. Also, many people are not aware of the emergency aspect
of ham radio, which I would think would be an easy, albeit important,
selling point in FL. If you took in a piece of black coated antenna wire and
held it up, and told them that this is the main part of the antenna, you
could dispel the "ugly" image they likely have of what an amateur radio
antenna looks like. While you may wish for a yagi 200' atop a tower, settle
for what you can get and present it to the Board. After all, Custer took a
chance...what have you got to lose?
Jack, W8TEE
On Friday, June 14, 2019, 5:11:54 AM EDT, David Wilcox via Groups.Io
<Djwilcox01=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Here is the ?Antenna Guide? from The Villages in Florida.  It is a restricted
HOA community but the local radio club has designed a manual with many kinds
of antennas that can safely be used there.
https://www.k4vrc.com/uploads/1/0/1/5/10156032/present-tvarc_antenna_guide.
pdf
David J. Wilcox K8WPE?s iPad
On Jun 13, 2019, at 7:42 PM, Alan de G1FXB via Groups.Io
<g1fxb=yahoo.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
Ted,
I have seen the mesh round just the perimeter eaves, and also others
covering the complete roof,
either way expect it to be as installed by the roofer and has no requirement
for it all to be electrically bonded unless you take the trouble to verify
it.
Presumably its galvanised wire, do they paint it black or does it weather
that quickly?
if it's fairly new it should be possible to remove some paint if necessary
and weave a bonding wire through the free ends etc for bonding.
If galvanised then probably iron wire if you scrape the zinc it will solder.
Watch the fumes, they will be poisonous and if using a blow torch.....
If it's older it will probably harder to get a reliable electrical
connection and require more ingenuity.
If they go small enough, perhaps look at the galvanised fastenings used for
wire rope.
If all else fails throw some black PVC coated copper wire over the roof and
forget all about the mesh.
As an initial proof of concept, use an alligator clip onto the mesh,
I suspect with the recent weather there is a minimal risk of fire.
QRP & having everything either like bonded as the aerial and away from other
metallic structures as possible you should be fine.
If your mains power service is by overhead wires, do they do anything
"special" near the roof covering?
You will have the same disadvantages as any antenna mounted close to a
dwelling with pick up of man made interference etc, possibly both ways.
You will never know how good / bad unless you try it.....
There are other types of "ground" antennas, also google transmitting
beverage to name just one other type.
They work best many wavelengths long but any wire is better than none.
You just missed two East Anglian Rallies in the last two weeks, the RSGB
bookshop do some good antenna books,
the older based ones are good for both theory and practical designs.
Everyone clambers for the latest publication but? I find the new ones just
concentrate on the practical construction details and not what makes it
work.
If you intend to buy one, I would try to get a hands on look, and compare at
least the contents pages.
Many of the books have the same or minimal changes to the designs to another
book by another author,
and perhaps only two or three "new" designs to warrant buying more than one
tittle.
?
Alan
On 13/06/2019 22:13, qrp@... wrote:
Many thanks all for your feedback
Alan & Hal
A very educated guess, it is a thatched cottage!?
I had never considered using the wire covering as an antenna, I presume 5
watts is never going to create any fire hazard (we get somewhat nervous
about such things).
So coax from my ZM-1 antenna matcher to the lowest point of the wire (which
is just outside the window) and then run the shield from there to ground?
I actually have an earthing rod sunk at precisely the right location.
I will also study that ground antenna link Alan, thank you
Ted
On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 07:03 PM, Alan de G1FXB wrote:
Ted,

I live in estate semi's, antenna restrictions are not necessary
prohibitive. Just need ingenuity, but you can get full sized
antennas up.....
Offer to "clean" the neighbours gutters the same time as yours
and? perhaps you could fit? dipoles or construct a loop antenna,
doesn't have to be resonant, open wire fed for low loss &
balanced match box
Run the dipole wire in the gutter or behind the plastic clips on
the sofit?.

If it's thatched roof & the chicken wire is not earthed to
anything then feed that against earth & you will have a better
antenna than most of us can achieve....

Your hedge antenna may work better configured as an end fed wire
rather than a dipole due to being so close to the ground.
Forward units of the military use wires trailed across the
ground, when they need to keep their heads down.
It's being refined for HAM use google Grasswire Antenna or
http://f5ad.free.fr/Liens_coupes_ANT/G/K3MT%20Antenne%20gazon.htm

Alan

On 13/06/2019 16:24, qrp@... wrote:
I am fairly new to amateur radio and currently studying
for my advanced (final) licence here in the UK. I've had
my amazing QCX40 operational for about 6 months now.

Whereas I am lucky to live in a beautiful village in the
rural Suffolk countryside in the UK, any wire aloft is a
complete no-no. I've tried all sorts of stealth antenna
around the our house but unfortunately the roof is covered
with chicken wire to keep out rodents and birds rendering
all antennae near it useless. I actually have a 40m dipole
hidden in a long beech hedge but as this is only a metre
off the ground in the hedge, this is also producing very
limited results.

However I could certainly get a lot of wire VERY aloft in
some trees about half a mile away.
This got me thinking and forgive me if this is a well
known subject, has anyone ever devised a remote
non-internet system to utilise an antenna at such a
distance?

73s from a very soggy UK

Ted? 2E0THH

SkipF, NT1G
 

I don't think a HOA would be needed to prevent a ham from installing
an 80' tower in a densely packed community, particularly in a hurricane
zone. A simple call to the local building inspector would do.

jjpurdum
 

Actually, while they weren't looking, I managed to sneak this up:

Inline image

You can see me just behind the right edge at the base of the tower.

They noticed it...

Jack, W8TEE


On Friday, June 14, 2019, 8:44:12 AM EDT, jmh6@... <jmh6@...> wrote:



Hi Jack :),

    LOL! Why just 80 feet :). Dual 200 ft. towers sounds about right!!

    John


On Fri, 14 Jun 2019, jjpurdum via Groups.Io wrote:

> It's nice to see this kind of cooperation from an HOA. I lived in a
> community that simply said "No external antennas of any kind"...period. I
> went to the next HOA meeting with pictures of a vertical antenna and told
> how it would not be visible at all from the front of the house, and the back
> of the house was all forest with no one living there. Before the meeting, I
> talked with both neighbors on either side of me,  since it would be visible
> to them. I showed them pictures of what I was going to put up, and asked if
> they were okay with that. They said yes. I went to the meeting, presented my
> pictures, said I had the neighbors permission, and also emphasized the
> emergency comms aspect of the hobby. After my presentation, I dug my heels
> in and prepared for battle.
>
> Crickets...
>
> The HOA voted and in less than a minute after my presentation I had their
> permission. I think what HOA's are trying to prevent are the 80' towers with
> a huge yagi on top. Also, many people are not aware of the emergency aspect
> of ham radio, which I would think would be an easy, albeit important,
> selling point in FL. If you took in a piece of black coated antenna wire and
> held it up, and told them that this is the main part of the antenna, you
> could dispel the "ugly" image they likely have of what an amateur radio
> antenna looks like. While you may wish for a yagi 200' atop a tower, settle
> for what you can get and present it to the Board. After all, Custer took a
> chance...what have you got to lose?
>
> Jack, W8TEE
>
>
> On Friday, June 14, 2019, 5:11:54 AM EDT, David Wilcox via Groups.Io
> <Djwilcox01=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
>
>
> Here is the ?Antenna Guide? from The Villages in Florida.  It is a restricted
> HOA community but the local radio club has designed a manual with many kinds
> of antennas that can safely be used there.
> https://www.k4vrc.com/uploads/1/0/1/5/10156032/present-tvarc_antenna_guide.
> pdf
>
> David J. Wilcox K8WPE?s iPad
>
> On Jun 13, 2019, at 7:42 PM, Alan de G1FXB via Groups.Io
> <g1fxb=yahoo.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
>
> Ted,
>
> I have seen the mesh round just the perimeter eaves, and also others
> covering the complete roof,
> either way expect it to be as installed by the roofer and has no requirement
> for it all to be electrically bonded unless you take the trouble to verify
> it.
> Presumably its galvanised wire, do they paint it black or does it weather
> that quickly?
> if it's fairly new it should be possible to remove some paint if necessary
> and weave a bonding wire through the free ends etc for bonding.
> If galvanised then probably iron wire if you scrape the zinc it will solder.
> Watch the fumes, they will be poisonous and if using a blow torch.....
> If it's older it will probably harder to get a reliable electrical
> connection and require more ingenuity.
> If they go small enough, perhaps look at the galvanised fastenings used for
> wire rope.
> If all else fails throw some black PVC coated copper wire over the roof and
> forget all about the mesh.
>
> As an initial proof of concept, use an alligator clip onto the mesh,
> I suspect with the recent weather there is a minimal risk of fire.
> QRP & having everything either like bonded as the aerial and away from other
> metallic structures as possible you should be fine.
> If your mains power service is by overhead wires, do they do anything
> "special" near the roof covering?
> You will have the same disadvantages as any antenna mounted close to a
> dwelling with pick up of man made interference etc, possibly both ways.
> You will never know how good / bad unless you try it.....
>
>
> There are other types of "ground" antennas, also google transmitting
> beverage to name just one other type.
> They work best many wavelengths long but any wire is better than none.
>
>
> You just missed two East Anglian Rallies in the last two weeks, the RSGB
> bookshop do some good antenna books,
> the older based ones are good for both theory and practical designs.
> Everyone clambers for the latest publication but? I find the new ones just
> concentrate on the practical construction details and not what makes it
> work.
> If you intend to buy one, I would try to get a hands on look, and compare at
> least the contents pages.
> Many of the books have the same or minimal changes to the designs to another
> book by another author,
> and perhaps only two or three "new" designs to warrant buying more than one
> tittle.
> ?
>
>
> Alan
>
>
> On 13/06/2019 22:13, qrp@... wrote:
>
> Many thanks all for your feedback
>
> Alan & Hal
> A very educated guess, it is a thatched cottage!?
> I had never considered using the wire covering as an antenna, I presume 5
> watts is never going to create any fire hazard (we get somewhat nervous
> about such things).
> So coax from my ZM-1 antenna matcher to the lowest point of the wire (which
> is just outside the window) and then run the shield from there to ground?
> I actually have an earthing rod sunk at precisely the right location.
>
> I will also study that ground antenna link Alan, thank you
>
> Ted
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 07:03 PM, Alan de G1FXB wrote:
>      Ted,
>
>      I live in estate semi's, antenna restrictions are not necessary
>      prohibitive. Just need ingenuity, but you can get full sized
>      antennas up.....
>      Offer to "clean" the neighbours gutters the same time as yours
>      and? perhaps you could fit? dipoles or construct a loop antenna,
>      doesn't have to be resonant, open wire fed for low loss &
>      balanced match box
>      Run the dipole wire in the gutter or behind the plastic clips on
>      the sofit?.
>
>      If it's thatched roof & the chicken wire is not earthed to
>      anything then feed that against earth & you will have a better
>      antenna than most of us can achieve....
>
>      Your hedge antenna may work better configured as an end fed wire
>      rather than a dipole due to being so close to the ground.
>      Forward units of the military use wires trailed across the
>      ground, when they need to keep their heads down.
>      It's being refined for HAM use google Grasswire Antenna or
>      http://f5ad.free.fr/Liens_coupes_ANT/G/K3MT%20Antenne%20gazon.htm
>
>
>      Alan
>
>
>      On 13/06/2019 16:24, qrp@... wrote:
>      I am fairly new to amateur radio and currently studying
>      for my advanced (final) licence here in the UK. I've had
>      my amazing QCX40 operational for about 6 months now.
>
>      Whereas I am lucky to live in a beautiful village in the
>      rural Suffolk countryside in the UK, any wire aloft is a
>      complete no-no. I've tried all sorts of stealth antenna
>      around the our house but unfortunately the roof is covered
>      with chicken wire to keep out rodents and birds rendering
>      all antennae near it useless. I actually have a 40m dipole
>      hidden in a long beech hedge but as this is only a metre
>      off the ground in the hedge, this is also producing very
>      limited results.
>
>      However I could certainly get a lot of wire VERY aloft in
>      some trees about half a mile away.
>      This got me thinking and forgive me if this is a well
>      known subject, has anyone ever devised a remote
>      non-internet system to utilise an antenna at such a
>      distance?
>
>      73s from a very soggy UK
>
>      Ted? 2E0THH
>
>
>
>
>


Ted 2E0THH
 

Brilliant David!
I shall devour this
73s Ted 2E0THH


On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 10:11 AM, David Wilcox wrote:
Here is the “Antenna Guide” from The Villages in Florida.  It is a restricted HOA community but the local radio club has designed a manual with many kinds of antennas that can safely be used there.
 
https://www.k4vrc.com/uploads/1/0/1/5/10156032/present-tvarc_antenna_guide.pdf

David J. Wilcox K8WPE’s iPad

On Jun 13, 2019, at 7:42 PM, Alan de G1FXB via Groups.Io <g1fxb@...> wrote:

Ted,

I have seen the mesh round just the perimeter eaves, and also others covering the complete roof,
either way expect it to be as installed by the roofer and has no requirement for it all to be electrically bonded unless you take the trouble to verify it.
Presumably its galvanised wire, do they paint it black or does it weather that quickly?
if it's fairly new it should be possible to remove some paint if necessary and weave a bonding wire through the free ends etc for bonding.
If galvanised then probably iron wire if you scrape the zinc it will solder. Watch the fumes, they will be poisonous and if using a blow torch.....
If it's older it will probably harder to get a reliable electrical connection and require more ingenuity.
If they go small enough, perhaps look at the galvanised fastenings used for wire rope.
If all else fails throw some black PVC coated copper wire over the roof and forget all about the mesh.

As an initial proof of concept, use an alligator clip onto the mesh,
I suspect with the recent weather there is a minimal risk of fire.
QRP & having everything either like bonded as the aerial and away from other metallic structures as possible you should be fine.
If your mains power service is by overhead wires, do they do anything "special" near the roof covering?
You will have the same disadvantages as any antenna mounted close to a dwelling with pick up of man made interference etc, possibly both ways.
You will never know how good / bad unless you try it.....


There are other types of "ground" antennas, also google transmitting beverage to name just one other type.
They work best many wavelengths long but any wire is better than none.


You just missed two East Anglian Rallies in the last two weeks, the RSGB bookshop do some good antenna books,
the older based ones are good for both theory and practical designs.
Everyone clambers for the latest publication but? I find the new ones just concentrate on the practical construction details and not what makes it work.
If you intend to buy one, I would try to get a hands on look, and compare at least the contents pages.
Many of the books have the same or minimal changes to the designs to another book by another author,
and perhaps only two or three "new" designs to warrant buying more than one tittle.
?


Alan


On 13/06/2019 22:13, qrp@... wrote:
Many thanks all for your feedback

Alan & Hal
A very educated guess, it is a thatched cottage!?
I had never considered using the wire covering as an antenna, I presume 5 watts is never going to create any fire hazard (we get somewhat nervous about such things).
So coax from my ZM-1 antenna matcher to the lowest point of the wire (which is just outside the window) and then run the shield from there to ground?
I actually have an earthing rod sunk at precisely the right location.

I will also study that ground antenna link Alan, thank you

Ted


On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 07:03 PM, Alan de G1FXB wrote:
Ted,

I live in estate semi's, antenna restrictions are not necessary prohibitive. Just need ingenuity, but you can get full sized antennas up.....
Offer to "clean" the neighbours gutters the same time as yours and? perhaps you could fit? dipoles or construct a loop antenna,
doesn't have to be resonant, open wire fed for low loss & balanced match box
Run the dipole wire in the gutter or behind the plastic clips on the sofit?.

If it's thatched roof & the chicken wire is not earthed to anything then feed that against earth & you will have a better antenna than most of us can achieve....

Your hedge antenna may work better configured as an end fed wire rather than a dipole due to being so close to the ground.
Forward units of the military use wires trailed across the ground, when they need to keep their heads down.
It's being refined for HAM use google Grasswire Antenna or http://f5ad.free.fr/Liens_coupes_ANT/G/K3MT%20Antenne%20gazon.htm


Alan


On 13/06/2019 16:24, qrp@... wrote:
I am fairly new to amateur radio and currently studying for my advanced (final) licence here in the UK. I've had my amazing QCX40 operational for about 6 months now.

Whereas I am lucky to live in a beautiful village in the rural Suffolk countryside in the UK, any wire aloft is a complete no-no. I've tried all sorts of stealth antenna around the our house but unfortunately the roof is covered with chicken wire to keep out rodents and birds rendering all antennae near it useless. I actually have a 40m dipole hidden in a long beech hedge but as this is only a metre off the ground in the hedge, this is also producing very limited results.

However I could certainly get a lot of wire VERY aloft in some trees about half a mile away.
This got me thinking and forgive me if this is a well known subject, has anyone ever devised a remote non-internet system to utilise an antenna at such a distance?

73s from a very soggy UK

Ted? 2E0THH

Hal
 

Nice, but my HOA will not approve the color scheme.
-Hal
N5NCZ

Ted 2E0THH
 

Many thanks Alan

After much consideration and research, I am going to leave the thatch wire covering to the birds & rodents. It really is just too much of a risk should something go awry and the insurance company will scoff at us.

I will try the grass line end fed idea, however my latest fixation is a telegraph pole the GPO kindly installed in our back garden quite a while back. I am sure it will be frowned upon but I could stealthily run a thin antenna wire up (or down) its length. The pole sits about 10m (30f) over lawn from the end of the house where I have my rig. There are 2 existing phone lines running from the pole to the apex of our gable end.



I could either run a single vertical up the pole feeding it under the lawn to the base or possibly an inverted Marconi L whose thin wire would be lost amongst the 2 phone lines and terminating at the base of the house. Neither lend themselves to ideal 40m resonance lengths but much better prospects than my current antenna. Probably running an antenna adjacent to phone lines isn't a great idea.

73s Ted 2E0THH


On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 12:42 AM, Alan de G1FXB wrote:
Ted,

I have seen the mesh round just the perimeter eaves, and also others covering the complete roof,
either way expect it to be as installed by the roofer and has no requirement for it all to be electrically bonded unless you take the trouble to verify it.
Presumably its galvanised wire, do they paint it black or does it weather that quickly?
if it's fairly new it should be possible to remove some paint if necessary and weave a bonding wire through the free ends etc for bonding.
If galvanised then probably iron wire if you scrape the zinc it will solder. Watch the fumes, they will be poisonous and if using a blow torch.....
If it's older it will probably harder to get a reliable electrical connection and require more ingenuity.
If they go small enough, perhaps look at the galvanised fastenings used for wire rope.
If all else fails throw some black PVC coated copper wire over the roof and forget all about the mesh.

As an initial proof of concept, use an alligator clip onto the mesh,
I suspect with the recent weather there is a minimal risk of fire.
QRP & having everything either like bonded as the aerial and away from other metallic structures as possible you should be fine.
If your mains power service is by overhead wires, do they do anything "special" near the roof covering?
You will have the same disadvantages as any antenna mounted close to a dwelling with pick up of man made interference etc, possibly both ways.
You will never know how good / bad unless you try it.....


There are other types of "ground" antennas, also google transmitting beverage to name just one other type.
They work best many wavelengths long but any wire is better than none.


You just missed two East Anglian Rallies in the last two weeks, the RSGB bookshop do some good antenna books,
the older based ones are good for both theory and practical designs.
Everyone clambers for the latest publication but? I find the new ones just concentrate on the practical construction details and not what makes it work.
If you intend to buy one, I would try to get a hands on look, and compare at least the contents pages.
Many of the books have the same or minimal changes to the designs to another book by another author,
and perhaps only two or three "new" designs to warrant buying more than one tittle.
?


Alan


On 13/06/2019 22:13, qrp@... wrote:
Many thanks all for your feedback

Alan & Hal
A very educated guess, it is a thatched cottage!?
I had never considered using the wire covering as an antenna, I presume 5 watts is never going to create any fire hazard (we get somewhat nervous about such things).
So coax from my ZM-1 antenna matcher to the lowest point of the wire (which is just outside the window) and then run the shield from there to ground?
I actually have an earthing rod sunk at precisely the right location.

I will also study that ground antenna link Alan, thank you

Ted


On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 07:03 PM, Alan de G1FXB wrote:
Ted,

I live in estate semi's, antenna restrictions are not necessary prohibitive. Just need ingenuity, but you can get full sized antennas up.....
Offer to "clean" the neighbours gutters the same time as yours and? perhaps you could fit? dipoles or construct a loop antenna,
doesn't have to be resonant, open wire fed for low loss & balanced match box
Run the dipole wire in the gutter or behind the plastic clips on the sofit?.

If it's thatched roof & the chicken wire is not earthed to anything then feed that against earth & you will have a better antenna than most of us can achieve....

Your hedge antenna may work better configured as an end fed wire rather than a dipole due to being so close to the ground.
Forward units of the military use wires trailed across the ground, when they need to keep their heads down.
It's being refined for HAM use google Grasswire Antenna or http://f5ad.free.fr/Liens_coupes_ANT/G/K3MT%20Antenne%20gazon.htm


Alan


On 13/06/2019 16:24, qrp@... wrote:
I am fairly new to amateur radio and currently studying for my advanced (final) licence here in the UK. I've had my amazing QCX40 operational for about 6 months now.

Whereas I am lucky to live in a beautiful village in the rural Suffolk countryside in the UK, any wire aloft is a complete no-no. I've tried all sorts of stealth antenna around the our house but unfortunately the roof is covered with chicken wire to keep out rodents and birds rendering all antennae near it useless. I actually have a 40m dipole hidden in a long beech hedge but as this is only a metre off the ground in the hedge, this is also producing very limited results.

However I could certainly get a lot of wire VERY aloft in some trees about half a mile away.
This got me thinking and forgive me if this is a well known subject, has anyone ever devised a remote non-internet system to utilise an antenna at such a distance?

73s from a very soggy UK

Ted? 2E0THH

Michael.2E0IHW
 

Ted, the frown-factor is real. Also, if you have VDSL coming
in via the copper telephone wires, you can expect a lot of mush
in your headphones. A mag-loop might well be your best option.
The grass antenna is certainly worth a try!

Michael 2E0IHW

On 15/06/2019 08:22, qrp@... wrote:
Many thanks Alan

After much consideration and research, I am going to leave the thatch
wire covering to the birds & rodents. It really is just too much of a
risk should something go awry and the insurance company will scoff at us.

I will try the grass line end fed idea, however my latest fixation is a
telegraph pole the GPO kindly installed in our back garden quite a while back. I am sure it will be frowned upon but I could stealthily run a
thin antenna wire up (or down) its length. The pole sits about 10m (30f) over lawn from the end of the house where I have my rig. There are 2
existing phone lines running from the pole to the apex of our gable end.
73s Ted 2E0THH
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