Topics

Where can I buy floater balloon?

Fred
 

I'm looking to buy a floater balloon similar to the one used by the U3B flights.
Any help is appreciated, Fred NT6T

Mustafa Tan
 

On 20 May 2019, at 16:20, Fred via Groups.Io <frits73@...> wrote:

I'm looking to buy a floater balloon similar to the one used by the U3B flights.
Any help is appreciated, Fred NT6T

Ken watson
 

How "full" do you fill them?  It seems it would not be very much if your target is going around the world in the stratosphere otherwise they will pop at some lower altitude.


Ken

K7KLW

SkipF, NT1G
 

So simple...
Even a HIGH SCHOOL kid can do it!

On Mon, May 20, 2019, 1:31 PM Ken watson <watsok@...> wrote:
How "full" do you fill them?  It seems it would not be very much if your target is going around the world in the stratosphere otherwise they will pop at some lower altitude.


Ken

K7KLW

SkipF, NT1G
 


On Mon, May 20, 2019, 2:22 PM Skip Flem <skip.flem@...> wrote:
So simple...
Even a HIGH SCHOOL kid can do it!

On Mon, May 20, 2019, 1:31 PM Ken watson <watsok@...> wrote:
How "full" do you fill them?  It seems it would not be very much if your target is going around the world in the stratosphere otherwise they will pop at some lower altitude.


Ken

K7KLW

Bob V
 

Sorry to hijack the thread but is anyone familiar with the method used to fill these balloons?  I presume it uses a Hofmann apparatus or something similar to generate hydrogen by electrolysis of water.  How is this then pressurized to introduce into the balloons?  Is it possible that they are filled at ambient pressure, as they will expand as they rise?
73
Bob
WA2I

Jim - KJ7EZN
 

Bottled hydrogen gas is available from most high end welding supply shops and I've read elsewhere that the cost of filling a balloon is about $1US.  The tracking shows most of the flights at altitude ranging in the mid to high 30, 000's in feet.  How much gas goes into the little balloon?.......I haven't a clue.
--
Jim, KJ7EZN    73!

 

You may have difficulties buying bottled hydrogen gas in the States.

Joe WB9SBD
 

HUH?
Joe WB9SBD

The Original Rolling Ball Clock
Idle Tyme
Idle-Tyme.com
http://www.idle-tyme.com

On 5/20/2019 3:29 PM, Frank W1FRA wrote:
You may have difficulties buying bottled hydrogen gas in the States.

Facility 406 <facility_406@...>
 

"You may have difficulties buying bottled hydrogen gas in the States."

It's just filtered air. Very common, and readily available.

You can rent a bottle for a few dollars, or buy decent sized cylinders (300 cubic feet) for about $90, if you're going to need a lot of hydrogen, and refills.

Kurt

SkipF, NT1G
 

There's a utube video comparing 2 grams of black powder to 2 grams of gasoline and two 2 grams of hydrogen.(2 '1 gram' grapefruit sized balloons)
Under a 30lb steel drum:
The gunpowder went 'boom'. (no movement)
The gasoline lifted the barrel 3'.
The two hydrogen balloons launched the barrel 30' into the air.

James Doyle
 

Working with hydrogen cylinders is a whole different ballgame...  Hydrogen at pre-regulator pressure will spontaneously ignite in air with a colorless but intense flame.
You can get severely burned by insidious hydrogen leaks. Then there is the problem of post regulator leaks creating explosive atmospheres

I was a chemist, and used to be scared s**tless of hydrogen, acetylene, chlorine and phosgene - in that order.

-- Jim (AB1RW)

On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 4:29 PM Frank W1FRA <allenfr@...> wrote:
You may have difficulties buying bottled hydrogen gas in the States.

Joe WB9SBD
 

Shop around 90 is 5 times too much! the highest I have ever paid is 29 bucks for the largest tank they got and thats special order too.

Joe WB9SBD

The Original Rolling Ball Clock
Idle Tyme
Idle-Tyme.com
http://www.idle-tyme.com

On 5/20/2019 3:37 PM, Facility 406 wrote:
"You may have difficulties buying bottled hydrogen gas in the States."

It's just filtered air.  Very common, and readily available.

You can rent a bottle for a few dollars, or buy decent sized cylinders (300 cubic feet) for about $90, if you're going to need a lot of hydrogen, and refills.

Kurt







Charles Wells
 

Why hydrogen and not helium?


On Mon, May 20, 2019, 15:43 James Doyle <rockymtnmagic@...> wrote:
Working with hydrogen cylinders is a whole different ballgame...  Hydrogen at pre-regulator pressure will spontaneously ignite in air with a colorless but intense flame.
You can get severely burned by insidious hydrogen leaks. Then there is the problem of post regulator leaks creating explosive atmospheres

I was a chemist, and used to be scared s**tless of hydrogen, acetylene, chlorine and phosgene - in that order.

-- Jim (AB1RW)

On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 4:29 PM Frank W1FRA <allenfr@...> wrote:
You may have difficulties buying bottled hydrogen gas in the States.

Hans Summers
 

1. Helium is a non-renewable, finite, natural resource with important medical uses. 

2. Hydrogen provides more lift.

3. Hydrogen molecules are bigger than Helium ones and they leak out more slowly.

On the other hand... hydrogen does require more care in handling. Helium is an inert gas so doesn't burn or explode. I'd like to say completely safe... but people would start imagine ways for it to be dangerous such as breathing 100% helium or the potential dangers of anything under high pressure.

Back to being bored in the long line for security at Chicago airport...

73 Hans G0UPL 


On Mon, May 20, 2019, 18:11 Charles Wells <odu1993@...> wrote:
Why hydrogen and not helium?

On Mon, May 20, 2019, 15:43 James Doyle <rockymtnmagic@...> wrote:
Working with hydrogen cylinders is a whole different ballgame...  Hydrogen at pre-regulator pressure will spontaneously ignite in air with a colorless but intense flame.
You can get severely burned by insidious hydrogen leaks. Then there is the problem of post regulator leaks creating explosive atmospheres

I was a chemist, and used to be scared s**tless of hydrogen, acetylene, chlorine and phosgene - in that order.

-- Jim (AB1RW)

On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 4:29 PM Frank W1FRA <allenfr@...> wrote:
You may have difficulties buying bottled hydrogen gas in the States.

John Rabson
 

On 20 May 2019, at 22:43, James Doyle <rockymtnmagic@...> wrote:

Working with hydrogen cylinders is a whole different ballgame... Hydrogen at pre-regulator pressure will spontaneously ignite in air with a colorless but intense flame.
You can get severely burned by insidious hydrogen leaks. Then there is the problem of post regulator leaks creating explosive atmospheres

I was a chemist, and used to be scared s**tless of hydrogen, acetylene, chlorine and phosgene - in that order.

-- Jim (AB1RW)
Did you forget fluorine (for other reasons)?

John F5VLF

Joe WB9SBD
 

As One of the groups that began all this balloon experimentation in the 1980's, we have used Hydrogen from day 1 and nothing BUT! 70+ flights from small balloons to balloons 100 Yards in diameter all with Hydrogen.

it is NOT as dangerous as most people think.

Yes it can "Burn"  But so does Natural Gas or Propane, yet you don't see people running to the hills every time you turn your stove on in the kitchen on do you?

Explosive? well yeah,  No more than the natural Gas or hows this,, Gun Powder!

Take the powder from a firecracker, pour it on the ground, and light it, what happens,, Not much kind of boring, think of a sparkler without the stick, some smoke and some sparks but thats all.

It is the Paper it is encased in that makes the explosion!

I even have a video of a weather balloon filled with Hydrogen intentionally ignited.

It is a total let down, no explosion at all, and there was more flame from the rubber of the balloon than from the hydrogen.

Same with the ultimate Hydrogen story the Hindenburg.

The Hydrogen did NOT explode,, and 99.9999% of the flames was from the covering of the Zeppelin. The silvery cotton cloth covering contained material including cellulose nitrate which is highly flammable!

Thats what all the flames were NOT the hydrogen.

When hydrogen "Burns" If not restricted, (Think Firecracker example) it burns QUICKLY! Very fast in less than a tenth of a second all 200 cubic feet in the balloon was gone.

Hydrogen gets a very bad rap all the time.

Joe WB9SBD
NEAR SPACE SCIENCES

Flights 70+ from the 1980's and 100% Hydrogen.

The Original Rolling Ball Clock
Idle Tyme
Idle-Tyme.com
http://www.idle-tyme.com

On 5/21/2019 2:59 AM, John Rabson wrote:
On 20 May 2019, at 22:43, James Doyle <rockymtnmagic@...> wrote:
Working with hydrogen cylinders is a whole different ballgame...  Hydrogen at pre-regulator pressure will spontaneously ignite in air with a colorless but intense flame.
You can get severely burned by insidious hydrogen leaks. Then there is the problem of post regulator leaks creating explosive atmospheres

I was a chemist, and used to be scared s**tless of hydrogen, acetylene, chlorine and phosgene - in that order.

-- Jim (AB1RW)
Did you forget fluorine (for other reasons)?

John F5VLF







SkipF, NT1G
 

I'll guess you missed 'BREAKTHROUGH: Rockets' on PBS,
(Last week) where they lofted a 30 pound drum 30' into
the air using 2 grams of hydrogen.
That's why they use hydrogen as rocket fuel.

jjpurdum
 

When I was taking high school chemistry, we had two or three days talking about purifying water, and the teacher went to considerable length to construct a filter where he poured this gunky-looking goo in the top of the filter and out came crystal-clear water at the other end, which he drank. It was impressive! The Friday quiz asked how you would get pure water that you could drink. I said: "Burn hydrogen". I got an 'A' on the quiz with a note saying I was a troublemaker.

Jack, W8TEE

On Tuesday, May 21, 2019, 8:46:17 AM EDT, Joe WB9SBD <nss@...> wrote:


As One of the groups that began all this balloon experimentation in the 1980's, we have used Hydrogen from day 1 and nothing BUT! 70+ flights from small balloons to balloons 100 Yards in diameter all with Hydrogen.

it is NOT as dangerous as most people think.

Yes it can "Burn"  But so does Natural Gas or Propane, yet you don't see people running to the hills every time you turn your stove on in the kitchen on do you?

Explosive? well yeah,  No more than the natural Gas or hows this,, Gun Powder!

Take the powder from a firecracker, pour it on the ground, and light it, what happens,, Not much kind of boring, think of a sparkler without the stick, some smoke and some sparks but thats all.

It is the Paper it is encased in that makes the explosion!

I even have a video of a weather balloon filled with Hydrogen intentionally ignited.

It is a total let down, no explosion at all, and there was more flame from the rubber of the balloon than from the hydrogen.

Same with the ultimate Hydrogen story the Hindenburg.

The Hydrogen did NOT explode,, and 99.9999% of the flames was from the covering of the Zeppelin. The silvery cotton cloth covering contained material including cellulose nitrate which is highly flammable!

Thats what all the flames were NOT the hydrogen.

When hydrogen "Burns" If not restricted, (Think Firecracker example) it burns QUICKLY! Very fast in less than a tenth of a second all 200 cubic feet in the balloon was gone.

Hydrogen gets a very bad rap all the time.

Joe WB9SBD
NEAR SPACE SCIENCES

Flights 70+ from the 1980's and 100% Hydrogen.

The Original Rolling Ball Clock
Idle Tyme
Idle-Tyme.com
http://www.idle-tyme.com

On 5/21/2019 2:59 AM, John Rabson wrote:
On 20 May 2019, at 22:43, James Doyle <rockymtnmagic@...> wrote:
Working with hydrogen cylinders is a whole different ballgame...  Hydrogen at pre-regulator pressure will spontaneously ignite in air with a colorless but intense flame.
You can get severely burned by insidious hydrogen leaks. Then there is the problem of post regulator leaks creating explosive atmospheres

I was a chemist, and used to be scared s**tless of hydrogen, acetylene, chlorine and phosgene - in that order.

-- Jim (AB1RW)
Did you forget fluorine (for other reasons)?

John F5VLF







Joe WB9SBD
 

yes and the drum "RESTRICTED"  its expansion.

Joe WB9SBD

The Original Rolling Ball Clock
Idle Tyme
Idle-Tyme.com
http://www.idle-tyme.com

On 5/21/2019 7:52 AM, SkipF, NT1G wrote:
I'll guess you missed 'BREAKTHROUGH: Rockets' on PBS,
(Last week) where they lofted a 30 pound drum 30' into
the air using 2 grams of hydrogen.
That's why they use hydrogen as rocket fuel.