Date   
Re: QCX(-like) for 2m #alignment #vfo

Braden Glett
 

"Not impossible at all in the US; just very rare."

That's why in my post I said, "practically speaking."
Sure, it's not literally impossible to find 2m CW - IF you engineer the result by scheduling a CW session with someone, but that's just not much fun in my book. Takes the mystery out of who will answer back.

Re: QCX/QSX Elmering and Discussion

Keith Laaks
 

Hi
I wonder if this will be recorded?
For those of us where this starts at 1am local..... :-)

Thanks
Keith
zs6tw

Re: Persistence seems lacking...

Fred Piering
 

Bob:
Any schematic that does not show all connections is incomplete (HA).
72
Fred
WD9HNU


On 9/8/2019 9:59 PM, Bob Macklin wrote:
It's common practice with solid state electronic not to show the power pins on the chips.
 
Bob Macklin
K5MYJ
Seattle, Wa.
"Real Radios Glow In The Dark"
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, September 08, 2019 10:00 AM
Subject: Re: [QRPLabs] Persistence seems lacking...

One of the problems with the schematics given with the kits is not all of the connections are shown... For instance, on the QLG1  GPS board for the U3s, there are no connections shown for power and ground for IC1. On the Relay-switched LPF kit there are a gaggle of connections marked with X for jumpers/external connections, etc that make it very unsuitable for debugging... Although most commercial radio schematics have a whole lot more detail, they are much easier to read as all the connections to any plugs/jacks are routed to the side and grouped by the plug/jack in numerical number, and jumpers are shown in the default positions, etc.

Jim
W6US

Re: Persistence seems lacking...

James Daldry W4JED
 

Hi, Braden

The secret of "nice warm sound" is to have a small amount of distortion at all audio levels. Audio output beam tubes work better as switches than as linear amps, so they require substantial amounts of negative feedback to linearize them. But substantial negative feedback means throwing away audio gain, possibly even adding another amplifier stage (at considerable expense) to cover for the lost gain. The usual result is to use only a little feedback to get decent bandwidth, then live with 1 or 2 percent THD at all volume levels. Then you end up without the "brick wall" clipping you get with most solid state equipment. Soft, roundy edges.

You can get very similar sound by building an amp using depletion mode FET's.

73

Jim W4JED

On 9/9/19 9:19 AM, Braden Glett wrote:
"PS is anything still driven by valves?"

Yes - plumbing. Other than that, you should probably have the hobby of working on guitar amplifiers rather than radio! :) Amps still use tubes for that nice, warm sound, real or imagined.

Re: Persistence seems lacking...

James Daldry W4JED
 

Hi, Fred

Back in tube days you commonly found all the filaments in the lower right hand corner of the schematic. In many cases the power transformer 6.3 volt winding ended in 2 arrows. It was assumed that if you were working on the equipment you knew what a filament was.

73

Jim W4JED

On 9/9/19 9:29 AM, Fred Piering wrote:
Bob:
Any schematic that does not show all connections is incomplete (HA).
72
Fred
WD9HNU


On 9/8/2019 9:59 PM, Bob Macklin wrote:
It's common practice with solid state electronic not to show the power pins on the chips.
 
Bob Macklin
K5MYJ
Seattle, Wa.
"Real Radios Glow In The Dark"
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, September 08, 2019 10:00 AM
Subject: Re: [QRPLabs] Persistence seems lacking...

One of the problems with the schematics given with the kits is not all of the connections are shown... For instance, on the QLG1  GPS board for the U3s, there are no connections shown for power and ground for IC1. On the Relay-switched LPF kit there are a gaggle of connections marked with X for jumpers/external connections, etc that make it very unsuitable for debugging... Although most commercial radio schematics have a whole lot more detail, they are much easier to read as all the connections to any plugs/jacks are routed to the side and grouped by the plug/jack in numerical number, and jumpers are shown in the default positions, etc.

Jim
W6US

Re: #clock PROBLEM Clock C.1.03 firmware #firmware #clock

Hans Summers
 

Hi Rick, Art, all

I have made a new clock firmware version c1.03a which fixes the two problems identified:

1) Saturday displayed as Saturdayday (my stupid typo)

2) Messed up timing when you use the feature to alternate between two (or more) different pieces of information on a line. 

The latter problem was also quite easy to find. This is just because of my new Sidereal calculations and display which are asynchronous to the UT and Local time information. That is to say: all of the UT, Local time and Sidereal time data provide hours, minutes and seconds. UT and Local Time are in sync. But Greenwhich Sidereal and Local Sidereal time seconds are not in sync with UT seconds. When the UT seconds are 13 (say) the Greenwich Sidereal seconds could be 34.28... seconds and local Sidereal seconds could be 56.14... (just random examples to illustrate the point). So the instant at which the three types of seconds tick over, is in general all different. This was messing with the timing when displaying multiple alternating pieces of information using delimiters. But easily fixed :-) 

Please could people try c1.03a from:

I will delay sending out any orders for clock chips or clocks for the next 2 days, to make sure that no other issues creep out. 

73 Hans G0UPL


On Mon, Sep 9, 2019 at 2:00 AM Rick Williams - VE7TK via Groups.Io <ve7tk=yahoo.ca@groups.io> wrote:
Thanks Hans.
--
73, Rick
VE7TK

Re: #clock PROBLEM Clock C.1.03 firmware #firmware #clock

Art N4EZZ
 

Hans,

Thanks for your hard work. I'll give it a try here in a few minutes.


Art N4EZZ <n4ezz@...>
GnuPG key ID 0x6712DD0E
=============================
Physical concepts are free creations of the human mind,
and are not, however it may seem, uniquely determined
by the external world.
Albert Einstein Evolution of Physics (1938)

On 9/9/19 8:03 AM, Hans Summers wrote:
Hi Rick, Art, all

I have made a new clock firmware version c1.03a which fixes the two
problems identified:

1) Saturday displayed as Saturdayday (my stupid typo)

2) Messed up timing when you use the feature to alternate between two (or
more) different pieces of information on a line.

The latter problem was also quite easy to find. This is just because of my
new Sidereal calculations and display which are asynchronous to the UT and
Local time information. That is to say: all of the UT, Local time and
Sidereal time data provide hours, minutes and seconds. UT and Local Time
are in sync. But Greenwhich Sidereal and Local Sidereal time seconds are
not in sync with UT seconds. When the UT seconds are 13 (say) the Greenwich
Sidereal seconds could be 34.28... seconds and local Sidereal seconds could
be 56.14... (just random examples to illustrate the point). So the instant
at which the three types of seconds tick over, is in general all different.
This was messing with the timing when displaying multiple alternating
pieces of information using delimiters. But easily fixed :-)

Please could people try c1.03a from:
http://qrp-labs.com/images/clockkit/firmware/c1.03a.hex

I will delay sending out any orders for clock chips or clocks for the next
2 days, to make sure that no other issues creep out.

73 Hans G0UPL
http://qrp-labs.com


On Mon, Sep 9, 2019 at 2:00 AM Rick Williams - VE7TK via Groups.Io <ve7tk=
yahoo.ca@groups.io> wrote:

Thanks Hans.
--
73, Rick
VE7TK




Re: #clock PROBLEM Clock C.1.03 firmware #firmware #clock

Rick Williams - VE7TK
 

Thanks Hans. I see sore index fingers in my future.  (One clock lost its programming but the other seemed to keep it after tbe reflash. )
--
73, Rick
VE7TK

Re: #clock PROBLEM Clock C.1.03 firmware #firmware #clock

Art N4EZZ
 

Hans,

Loaded up the c.1.03a version and watched it for a bit.

For item 2 it is back to normal timing. I don't use days of the week so
can't confirm that part.

I am a happy camper and thank you.


Art N4EZZ <n4ezz@...>
GnuPG key ID 0x6712DD0E
=============================
Heaven goes by favor. If it went by merit,
you would stay out and your dog would go in.
Mark Twain, a Biography

On 9/9/19 8:07 AM, Art N4EZZ wrote:
Hans,

Thanks for your hard work. I'll give it a try here in a few minutes.


Art N4EZZ <n4ezz@...>
GnuPG key ID 0x6712DD0E
=============================
Physical concepts are free creations of the human mind,
and are not, however it may seem, uniquely determined
by the external world.
Albert Einstein Evolution of Physics (1938)

On 9/9/19 8:03 AM, Hans Summers wrote:
Hi Rick, Art, all

I have made a new clock firmware version c1.03a which fixes the two
problems identified:

1) Saturday displayed as Saturdayday (my stupid typo)

2) Messed up timing when you use the feature to alternate between two (or
more) different pieces of information on a line.

The latter problem was also quite easy to find. This is just because of my
new Sidereal calculations and display which are asynchronous to the UT and
Local time information. That is to say: all of the UT, Local time and
Sidereal time data provide hours, minutes and seconds. UT and Local Time
are in sync. But Greenwhich Sidereal and Local Sidereal time seconds are
not in sync with UT seconds. When the UT seconds are 13 (say) the Greenwich
Sidereal seconds could be 34.28... seconds and local Sidereal seconds could
be 56.14... (just random examples to illustrate the point). So the instant
at which the three types of seconds tick over, is in general all different.
This was messing with the timing when displaying multiple alternating
pieces of information using delimiters. But easily fixed :-)

Please could people try c1.03a from:
http://qrp-labs.com/images/clockkit/firmware/c1.03a.hex

I will delay sending out any orders for clock chips or clocks for the next
2 days, to make sure that no other issues creep out.

73 Hans G0UPL
http://qrp-labs.com


On Mon, Sep 9, 2019 at 2:00 AM Rick Williams - VE7TK via Groups.Io <ve7tk=
yahoo.ca@groups.io> wrote:

Thanks Hans.
--
73, Rick
VE7TK





Re: Persistence seems lacking...

Fred Piering
 

Hi Jim:
I remember that, but things were a little simpler then too.
Today with some of my clients, I get schematics that have 38 capacitors all shown in a string in the upper left hand corner.
They are the bypass capacitors for all the IC's. I think they do that to make the schematic less cluttered, especially when you have a 100 pin FPGA.
But...when I was designing and working with the draftsmen to make printed wiring boards, I trained them that the schematic told a story.
If I placed a bypass capacitor directly to the pins on an integrated circuit, that told them, place it right at the pins. If the capacitor connected to one pin and had a ground symbol on the other, it said put it near.
73
Fred
WD9HNU


On 9/9/2019 9:36 AM, James Daldry W4JED wrote:

Hi, Fred

Back in tube days you commonly found all the filaments in the lower right hand corner of the schematic. In many cases the power transformer 6.3 volt winding ended in 2 arrows. It was assumed that if you were working on the equipment you knew what a filament was.

73

Jim W4JED

On 9/9/19 9:29 AM, Fred Piering wrote:
Bob:
Any schematic that does not show all connections is incomplete (HA).
72
Fred
WD9HNU


On 9/8/2019 9:59 PM, Bob Macklin wrote:
It's common practice with solid state electronic not to show the power pins on the chips.
 
Bob Macklin
K5MYJ
Seattle, Wa.
"Real Radios Glow In The Dark"
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, September 08, 2019 10:00 AM
Subject: Re: [QRPLabs] Persistence seems lacking...

One of the problems with the schematics given with the kits is not all of the connections are shown... For instance, on the QLG1  GPS board for the U3s, there are no connections shown for power and ground for IC1. On the Relay-switched LPF kit there are a gaggle of connections marked with X for jumpers/external connections, etc that make it very unsuitable for debugging... Although most commercial radio schematics have a whole lot more detail, they are much easier to read as all the connections to any plugs/jacks are routed to the side and grouped by the plug/jack in numerical number, and jumpers are shown in the default positions, etc.

Jim
W6US


Re: Clock kit: new firmware version 1.03

Dean Smith
 

Hi, just uploaded 1.03a version clock software, on a 4 line clock.

Line 1 I'm displaying UTC which seems fine.  16:53
Line 2 I'm displaying local time. Here at this time of year is +1 hour. Local offset is +060!  17:53
Ok all fine to this point.
Line 3 I'm displaying local sidereal time 16:06 ?? I'm west of GMT! Time should be minus a little -0.2 west of Greenwich.
Line 4 I'm displaying GMT sidereal time 16:08?? Now very confused.....
#UH and #TH don't appear to help if you use local offset function??
Anybody wanna have a stab at this one hi!

Re: #clock PROBLEM Clock C.1.03 firmware #firmware #clock

Rick Williams - VE7TK
 

Thanks for the quick fix Hans.

I agree with Art's comments. Item #2 problem is cured.
--
73, Rick
VE7TK

Re: Clock kit: new firmware version 1.03

Hans Summers
 

Hi Dean

What is your actual longitude reported by the clock? Including the sign (E/W)?

The #UH/M/S tags should display Greenwich Sidereal Time (GST).

The #TH/M/S tags should display Local Sidereal Time (LST).

Local Sidereal Time has nothing at all to do with the local time offset setting which only applies to UT not Sidereal time. Whereas UT and local time offsets are human specified, the relation ship between GST and LST is specified only by the locality's longitude. 

LST is GST - longitude / 15.0. For example in my case I'm 28.something degrees East and so my LST is nearly 2 hours ahead of GST. 

73 Hans G0UPL 




On Mon, Sep 9, 2019, 20:01 Dean Smith <bardezbiker@...> wrote:
Hi, just uploaded 1.03a version clock software, on a 4 line clock.

Line 1 I'm displaying UTC which seems fine.  16:53
Line 2 I'm displaying local time. Here at this time of year is +1 hour. Local offset is +060!  17:53
Ok all fine to this point.
Line 3 I'm displaying local sidereal time 16:06 ?? I'm west of GMT! Time should be minus a little -0.2 west of Greenwich.
Line 4 I'm displaying GMT sidereal time 16:08?? Now very confused.....
#UH and #TH don't appear to help if you use local offset function??
Anybody wanna have a stab at this one hi!

Re: Clock kit: new firmware version 1.03

Dean Smith
 

Ok 000°20'4"58232 west if I have that right here in the outbacks of at albans

Re: Persistence seems lacking...

Shirley Dulcey KE1L
 

Distortion, in particular the kind of distortion that tubes produce, is part of what we think of as the characteristic sound of an electric guitar. Guitar amplifiers are not designed for minimum distortion, and they are often pushed to and beyond their limits to get that tube distortion to happen. A common way of handling guitars for a large venue is to use a small tube amplifier, put a microphone in front of it to capture the result, and then put that through a clean stack of solid state amplifiers to fill the space.

In addition to distortion from the amplifier, guitar players use a variety of effects boxes to distort their sound in other ways. Those effects happen before the amplifier, so whatever the amp does to the signal is stacked on top of the distortion from the boxes.

Tubes are still a cost-effective way to get a kilowatt or more of RF output, especially if you buy one of the many used linear amplifiers that are available. (I know - off-topic for QRP!) Other than that, their primary appeal in ham radio is nostalgia. They have the appeal of being technology that you can almost understand and imagine making at home. It would take a fair amount of specialized gear but you COULD make your own rudimentary vacuum tubes. Making your own transistors would be far more challenging, and making sophisticated integrated circuits is far beyond what any individual could do.

On Mon, Sep 9, 2019 at 9:19 AM Braden Glett <bradenglett@...> wrote:
"PS is anything still driven by valves?"

Yes - plumbing. Other than that, you should probably have the hobby of working on guitar amplifiers rather than radio! :) Amps still use tubes for that nice, warm sound, real or imagined.

Re: Clock kit: new firmware version 1.03

Hans Summers
 

Hi Dean

Ok so you're very slightly West of the Greenwich meridian. And you said your LST is 2 minutes behind your GST (you reported LST 16:06 when GST is 16:08). So this is what it should be doing isn't it?

73 Hans G0UPL 

On Mon, Sep 9, 2019, 20:33 Dean Smith <bardezbiker@...> wrote:
Ok 000°20'4"58232 west if I have that right here in the outbacks of at albans

Re: Persistence seems lacking...

Bill Cromwell
 

Hi,

When we are telling what something is and explaining how it works it can be useful to compare it to what is is NOT. So vacuum tubes can be useful in that regard even when we are talking about solid state and QRP (not necessarily the same thing). That requires the audience to know how tubes work. Some tube transmitters are QRP 5 watts or less of RF output. "QRP receiver" is about the same as division by zero. Receivers don't really have RF output beyond local 'leakage'. A tube receiver the size of a refrigerator is still just a receiver with no RF output.

Some of us still use vacuum tubes beyond nostalgia because they still do what they have always done (good, bad, and indifferent) AND we already have them. If I was starting out today I would probably not gives tubes a second glance. The heater power alone for two or three tubes exceeds the input DC power to the RF circuits.

73,

Bill KU8H

On 9/9/19 1:38 PM, Shirley Dulcey KE1L wrote:
Distortion, in particular the kind of distortion that tubes produce, is part of what we think of as the characteristic sound of an electric guitar. Guitar amplifiers are not designed for minimum distortion, and they are often pushed to and beyond their limits to get that tube distortion to happen. A common way of handling guitars for a large venue is to use a small tube amplifier, put a microphone in front of it to capture the result, and then put that through a clean stack of solid state amplifiers to fill the space.
In addition to distortion from the amplifier, guitar players use a variety of effects boxes to distort their sound in other ways. Those effects happen before the amplifier, so whatever the amp does to the signal is stacked on top of the distortion from the boxes.
Tubes are still a cost-effective way to get a kilowatt or more of RF output, especially if you buy one of the many used linear amplifiers that are available. (I know - off-topic for QRP!) Other than that, their primary appeal in ham radio is nostalgia. They have the appeal of being technology that you can almost understand and imagine making at home. It would take a fair amount of specialized gear but you COULD make your own rudimentary vacuum tubes. Making your own transistors would be far more challenging, and making sophisticated integrated circuits is far beyond what any individual could do.
On Mon, Sep 9, 2019 at 9:19 AM Braden Glett <@kd8zm <mailto:@kd8zm>> wrote:
"PS is anything still driven by valves?"
Yes - plumbing. Other than that, you should probably have the hobby
of working on guitar amplifiers rather than radio! :) Amps still use
tubes for that nice, warm sound, real or imagined.
--
bark less - wag more

Re: Persistence seems lacking...

Bob Macklin <macklinbob@...>
 

To me QRP means SMALL.

The receivers for small low power operation are generally very simple,
primitive receivers like regens, direct conversion, and possibly crystal
detectors.

Not mutt band, multi mode, RICEBOXES!

I've got the ARRL QRP book. and it is full of simple primitive stuff.

Bob Macklin
K5MYJ
Seattle, Wa.
"Real Radios Glow In The Dark"

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Cromwell" <wrcromwell@...>
To: <QRPLabs@groups.io>
Sent: Monday, September 09, 2019 11:02 AM
Subject: Re: [QRPLabs] Persistence seems lacking...


Hi,

When we are telling what something is and explaining how it works it can
be useful to compare it to what is is NOT. So vacuum tubes can be useful
in that regard even when we are talking about solid state and QRP (not
necessarily the same thing). That requires the audience to know how tubes
work. Some tube transmitters are QRP 5 watts or less of RF output. "QRP
receiver" is about the same as division by zero. Receivers don't really
have RF output beyond local 'leakage'. A tube receiver the size of a
refrigerator is still just a receiver with no RF output.

Some of us still use vacuum tubes beyond nostalgia because they still do
what they have always done (good, bad, and indifferent) AND we already
have them. If I was starting out today I would probably not gives tubes a
second glance. The heater power alone for two or three tubes exceeds the
input DC power to the RF circuits.

73,

Bill KU8H


On 9/9/19 1:38 PM, Shirley Dulcey KE1L wrote:
Distortion, in particular the kind of distortion that tubes produce, is
part of what we think of as the characteristic sound of an electric
guitar. Guitar amplifiers are not designed for minimum distortion, and
they are often pushed to and beyond their limits to get that tube
distortion to happen. A common way of handling guitars for a large venue
is to use a small tube amplifier, put a microphone in front of it to
capture the result, and then put that through a clean stack of solid
state amplifiers to fill the space.

In addition to distortion from the amplifier, guitar players use a
variety of effects boxes to distort their sound in other ways. Those
effects happen before the amplifier, so whatever the amp does to the
signal is stacked on top of the distortion from the boxes.

Tubes are still a cost-effective way to get a kilowatt or more of RF
output, especially if you buy one of the many used linear amplifiers that
are available. (I know - off-topic for QRP!) Other than that, their
primary appeal in ham radio is nostalgia. They have the appeal of being
technology that you can almost understand and imagine making at home. It
would take a fair amount of specialized gear but you COULD make your own
rudimentary vacuum tubes. Making your own transistors would be far more
challenging, and making sophisticated integrated circuits is far beyond
what any individual could do.

On Mon, Sep 9, 2019 at 9:19 AM Braden Glett <@kd8zm
<mailto:@kd8zm>> wrote:

"PS is anything still driven by valves?"

Yes - plumbing. Other than that, you should probably have the hobby
of working on guitar amplifiers rather than radio! :) Amps still use
tubes for that nice, warm sound, real or imagined.

--
bark less - wag more


Re: Persistence seems lacking...

ajparent1/KB1GMX
 

OK then a 5 tube superhet RX using 1AD4s and nearly pocket sizes is not QRP?  ;)

Tubes got very small and it was/is possible to make small radios using them 
that are not power hungry.  That 5tube was 250ma for the filaments and 45V
(5 9V batteries) at maybe 8ma.  Not terrible considering it was a tubes that were
at hand.  

A matching CW rig for 2W on 80m will be more demanding at 150ma for the filaments
and 135V (15 9V batteries) at some 20 ma.  For a 1U4 and 3A4 that's not bad.
Its possible to do better power wise but since all are in the off position on RX and
powered for TX thats not bad.

I do a lot with tubes as I have a boat lad laying around and they can be fun.
Doent' mean that the latest IC is not int he collection or a microporcessor 
or three as well.  I've mixed them for example a 4 tube am TX for 160 
and a Arduino/AD9850 for a crystal replacement.  10W of AM and DDS
stability.  

The idea that tube and transistors are distinct and separate was never
embraced by industry as it was a way to get to lower power when
transistors could not do higher power or higher frequency.

Allison

Re: Persistence seems lacking...

Graham, VE3GTC
 

making one own tubes is not easy but others have done so. A search of youtube will provides a few results - there was one French gentleman who had a farily long video describing his process and another that might have been multi part.

And transistors and IC's - that has been done too.

https://hackaday.com/2018/04/24/first-lithographically-produced-home-made-ic-announced/

https://hackaday.com/2010/05/13/transistor-fabrication-so-simple-a-child-can-do-it/

https://hackaday.com/2010/03/10/jeri-makes-integrated-circuits/

among a few (very few) others.  Indeed not so easy and perhaps not even very practical other than the "Look what I did" wow factor.

cheers, Graham ve3gtc