Date   
Re: prog rock ge mastr exec ii

cct.oei@...
 

When it comes to filtering the output of the ProgRock prior to multiplication, it's worth noting that the original crystal oscillator did not produce a nice sine wave:  Remember that the crystal output is immediately used to produce harmonics in the following multiplier stages.  In other words, for the purpose of harmonics alone, there is no reason why one would go through the trouble of doing so:  For the receive crystal on the Mastr II, I *think* that you can simply program the ProgRock for the output frequency of the first multiplier, anyway, rather than crystal frequency, eliminating one such step - something that cannot be done on transmit due to the frequency-selective nature of the phase modulator.

The sole reason for some sort of filtering would be to attenuate energy that was far removed from the intended output frequency or its harmonics.  While a low-pass filter would probably take care of 2x energy and higher, it will do nothing for energy that was much below this, near the desired output frequency or below it.  Again, there may not be a need for such a filter in one's specific application - and if there is undesirable energy that is too close to the intended frequency (e.g. within a 100 kHz or closer) it may be challenging to construct suitably-tight filtering, anyway:  In either case, even QRP-Labs' own band-pass filters might be too narrow for this - unless there is a redesign.

* * *

Somewhat OT, this reminds me of past discussions that I've seen (not in this group) where it was asked if one needs to low-pass a local oscillator prior to applying it to a mixer.  The answer to this - assuming that the local oscillator is outputting ONLY integer-related harmonic energy - is simply "no, you don't."  The reasons for this are:

- Doing the math, if one has appropriately used input bandpass filtering (on the "RF" port) and output filtering (on the "IF" port) you will find that harmonics won't contribute to spurious signals, anyway.  (If one doesn't do the bandpass filtering, the use of a filtered local oscillator won't help you escape spurious signals, anyway...)
- Any mixer will produce harmonics during its switching, anyway - that's what it does.
- If you have ever used a switching mixer (e.g. QSD or "Tayloe") - such as that found in the QCX, many Elecraft radios, etc. it uses square waves, by definition.

A really good reference to this is Mini-Circuits Labs book "The care and feeding of diode ring mixers" (or something close to that) - an article from at least the 1980s - where they actually recommend square wave drive of mixers to lower insertion loss and improve power handling, citing the reasons above.

Again, if the local oscillator contains something *other* than integer harmonics, filtering is probably a good idea.

73,
Clint
KA7OEI

Re: my transceiver. just bragging :) #qcx

David R. Hassall WA5DJJ
 

Thank you.   It is on my 3Dprinter now printing away.  A nice companion to my QCX and for portable operations. 
Take care and have fun.
73 Dave WA5DJJ

Re: QCX/QSX Elmering and Discussion

Bill Cromwell
 

Hi Lawrence,

I agree it would be easier. There is much confusion when we say "eastern time" without reference to standard or daylight time. Worse is when we insist on saying local time which is the time a sundial would show you. I am in the U.S. eastern time zone, currently on daylight saving time. My local time is 95 minutes later than eastern daylight saving time and 35 minutes later than standard time. You don't care about my local noon nor my sundial. I am not overly concerned about local time except for certain natural things. Navigators care about that too but my home seems not to have moved very much in recent days <evil grin>.

For better scheduling we all should be using the Zulu time variously known as coordinated universal time, Greenwich mean time, and Zulu time. They are *all* the same thing. Each of us knows how to translate that to the clock at our own locations.

73,

Bill KU8H

On 7/8/19 10:19 AM, Lawrence GJ3RAX wrote:
On 08/07/2019 12:50, Bill Cromwell wrote:
Hi,

Let me confirm that it is EDT (Eastern Daylight-saving Time) but that is four hours behind Zulu, GMT, CUT time. EST (Eastern Standard Time) is -5 hours. We are presently on EDT.

I am in Michigan and in the Michigan QRP Club along with Ed - 150 or so miles apart.

73, Bill  KU8H
Don't forget that some of the Eastern provinces of Canada, including New Brunswick and Nova Scotia use Atlantic time which is typically 1 hour different to those that use EDT or EST and 4 hours from where I am which now uses BST as local time or GMT in the winter.
It would be so much easier if the whole world used UTC, or GMT, and lived and worked accordingly.
https://www.timeanddate.com/time/zones/ast
Quote:
"Only the Government would have you believe that by cutting a foot off the top of a blanket and sewing it on the bottom, you would have a longer blanket." - alleged Cherokee commentary on Daylight Savings Time
73, Lawrence  GJ3RAX
--
bark less - wag more

Re: Completed Clock Kit with Enclosure #clock #enclosure

Graham, VE3GTC
 

Indeed, well done.

And that is great idea for the front panel.

cheers, Graham ve3gtc


On 7/8/2019, "jjpurdum via Groups.Io" <jjpurdum=yahoo.com@groups.io>
wrote:

Roger:
Looks great! Nice idea on the plastic front.
Jack, W8TEE

On Monday, July 8, 2019, 10:09:31 AM EDT, Roger N5RWK <rwklein@katyweb..net> wrote:

Here is my completed clock kit, using a 4x20 display.  The case I used was a Hammond RM2015L, which I purchased from Mouser for $8.49 plus shipping  I replaced the blank plastic front of the case with a piece of plexiglass cut to the same size.  I masked it off on the inside to fit the display, and then spray painted it flat black.  For power, I'm using an old USB cable that I cut up and it's plugged into a 5V wall wart.  The case nicely fits the clock, display and GPS.

I programmed it to display my grid square and call on line 1.  Lines 2 and 3 alternate between UTC and local time and date, and Line 4 displays GPS stats, latitude, longitude and altitude.





Re: prog rock ge mastr exec ii

Robin Midgett
 

Yes indeed. Given that the LPF kits require the builder to wind the toroids and the ease of replacing or supplementing the fixed value caps with narrow value trimmers, it seems that a tuneable LPF could be had by using the kit as a springboard.
Thanks,
Robin Midgett K4IDC


On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 7:41 AM Bob / WA1MIK <wa1mik@...> wrote:
Robin: Thanks for the filter recommendation. I would need two of them though, one for TX, one for RX, and the freqs are significantly far from the common ham bands that I'd need to fiddle with component values to make them do anything useful. One would need to cover 6.5-7.5 MHz, the other 9-11 MHz. Granted, once I retune the station from 26.31 MHz to 29.6 MHz, I would only need one set of filters, at the high end of those ranges.

Easily tunable filters would be more useful for this project, possibly with variable capacitors in each stage.

Bob M.

Re: power #qcx

hanz PA3ZZ
 

Hi Fred and Andy, 

I removed from L1 2 turns.
I would think that the power should rise a bit but it is a bit lower.
Does it only work if i take a turn off of L2 and L3 too before power goes up ?

Mni thanks hanz 

Re: power #qcx

hanz PA3ZZ
 

Hi Fred and Andy, 

I removed from L1 2 turns.
I would think that the power should rise a bit but it is a bit lower.
Does it only work if i take a turn off of L2 and L3 also before power goes up ?

Mni thanks hanz 

Re: prog rock ge mastr exec ii

Robin Midgett
 

Thank you. That certainly explains why my ProgRock is on an Australian walkabout without a 1PPS signal...even a sub 4 volt 1 PPS! 
Lovin' the learning!
Thanks,
Robin Midgett K4IDC


On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 4:25 AM Hans Summers <hans.summers@...> wrote:
Hi Robin

The 27MHz correction threshold parameter only applies during GPS correction. Only when you have a GPS 1pps connected.

73 Hans G0UPL 

On Mon, Jul 8, 2019, 03:06 Robin Midgett <K4IDC@...> wrote:
Hi Hans,
Thank you very much for the tips.
I was able today to get my old oscilloscope dialed in enough to measure the pulse width of the 1 PPS output of the Trimble Resolution T GPS board...it's a 1mS pulse width. Further, and perhaps the better news, you're correct...it's only making about 3 volts above ground, so that might be the sole issue with the GPS discipline problem. I'll try a level converter & see how it goes.

Yes, I'm aware of the frequency bank switching scheme, but I hadn't realized one could take advantage of that for on/off keying..I'll give that a try & follow up with my findings. That seems rather clever to me.

Question on your point 5: Is that 27MHz. correction threshold only valid for GPS discipline mode,or does it apply for both GPS/non GPS mode? The way your point is stated makes it seem to me that perhaps the threshold is only effective while under GPS discipline...but maybe I'm mistaken.

Thanks,
Robin Midgett K4IDC


On Fri, Jul 5, 2019 at 6:42 AM Hans Summers <hans.summers@...> wrote:
Hi Robin

Several comments:

1. ProgRock was developed in conjunction with the QRP Labs QLG1 GPS http://qrp-labs.com/qlg1 which has 100ms (0.1ms) positive-going pulse. Though if your pulse-length is 1ms I would not expect there to be problems... but couldn't know for sure without testing it. I know something very short like a microsecond would be an issue. But a millisecond is relatively ages...

2. Watch out for voltage level problems. Most GPS chips operate at 2.8V supply, the ProgRock operates with 5V supply. The logic level threshold for a "1" is 3V if I recall correctly. Therefore with many GPS module models you need a level converter. A pull-up resistor to +5V can do the job often but you need the right resistor value. And even then, the noise immunity suffers compared to a "real" level converter. The QLG1 kit has a proper logic level converter so with its 5V logic outputs you never have an issue. 

3. A heatsink on the crystal helps with thermal stability. So does putting the project in an enclosure to avoid drafts etc. 

4. ON/OFF keying... are you aware of the frequency bank feature of ProgRock? There are three logic inputs, the permutations of high/low control signals in these allow you to choose one of three banks of output frequencies. If any frequencies are zero the output is just disabled. So it is often quite convenient to uses these logic level inputs to on/off key the output frequency you want.

5. Read the manual section about the GPS correction threshold register. For finest precision you want this to be 0Hz. The default is 5Hz which means the correction is only applied when the error if the 27MHz value exceeds 5Hz.

When all is well you should be well within 0.05ppm.

73 Hans G0UPL 


On Fri, Jul 5, 2019, 03:49 Robin Midgett <K4IDC@...> wrote:
Hi Jim,
Not a MASTR Exec, but a low band MASTR II mobile for use as a 6m beacon. I'm working on using the ProgRock in place of the crystal in the channel element. Once I get the low band beacon going in good order, I plan to expand to 2m, 1.25cm & 70 cm. I started this project over a year ago, set it aside for several months, and just today returned to it.

I plan to inject the RF from the ProgRock directly into the channel element connections on the exciter board, and key it on/off with a small memory keyer. It works just fine using a simple relay to key, but I want a solid state switch instead of a mechanical relay, so I've been working toward that.

I tried inserting the on/off keying in the bias & tripler circuits downstream of the channel element, but that didn't work well at all; the resulting RF was dirty & splattered across the narrow beacon sub-band. The original mic PTT simply turned the power to the oscillator in the channel element on/off, so that seems to be a good starting point.

Presently I have good stability using the ProgRock stand-alone (no GPS PPS discipline); it's running less than 10 Hertz off my desired frequency. I expected much better performance with GPS 1PPS discipline, but after trying 3 different GPS modules, I've not had better success than without. I'm beginning to question the 1PPS I've been giving the ProgRock relative to the ProgRock 1PPS requirement; perhaps the ProgRock needs a wider pulse width than 1mS, so I'm considering trying a pulse stretcher stage; perhaps 10mS will do the trick.

I did find a significant increase in stability by thermally bonding the 27MHz. crystal on the Si5351A Synth module to the heat sink of the 5V regulator AND the aluminum Bud box enclosure, so if you don't want to deal with the GPS discipline, by all means make the effort to thermally stabilize the 27MHz. crystal & then thermally isolate the ProgRock enclosure from the environment. By the way, it's an inverse relationship...warmer crystal shifts the frequency down. Simply holding my finger on the crystal is enough to move the oscillator. 

QRPLabs offers a OCXO module to replace the crystal on the Si5351A Synth module; you might consider using it. There's info in the archives of this email list on the various issues that may entail. I haven't tried that module so I can say anything about it's performance. 
I'm happy to share anything I learn along the way; feel free to contact me.
Thanks,
Robin Midgett K4IDC


On Tue, Jul 2, 2019 at 5:40 AM Jim via Groups.Io <gl1000gold=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
anyone ever tried a prog rock as a crystal replacement in a ge mastr exec and how was it wired?

Re: Completed Clock Kit with Enclosure #clock #enclosure

N6WKZ
 

Rodger,

Nice job! How did you mount the display?

Phil N6WKZ

On 7/8/2019 7:09 AM, Roger N5RWK wrote:
Here is my completed clock kit, using a 4x20 display.  The case I used was a Hammond RM2015L, which I purchased from Mouser for $8.49 plus shipping.  I replaced the blank plastic front of the case with a piece of plexiglass cut to the same size.  I masked it off on the inside to fit the display, and then spray painted it flat black.  For power, I'm using an old USB cable that I cut up and it's plugged into a 5V wall wart.  The case nicely fits the clock, display and GPS.

I programmed it to display my grid square and call on line 1.  Lines 2 and 3 alternate between UTC and local time and date, and Line 4 displays GPS stats, latitude, longitude and altitude.

Re: QCX/QSX Elmering and Discussion

Lawrence GJ3RAX
 

On 08/07/2019 12:50, Bill Cromwell wrote:
Hi,
Let me confirm that it is EDT (Eastern Daylight-saving Time) but that is four hours behind Zulu, GMT, CUT time. EST (Eastern Standard Time) is -5 hours. We are presently on EDT.
I am in Michigan and in the Michigan QRP Club along with Ed - 150 or so miles apart.
73, Bill  KU8H
Don't forget that some of the Eastern provinces of Canada, including New Brunswick and Nova Scotia use Atlantic time which is typically 1 hour different to those that use EDT or EST and 4 hours from where I am which now uses BST as local time or GMT in the winter.

It would be so much easier if the whole world used UTC, or GMT, and lived and worked accordingly.

https://www.timeanddate.com/time/zones/ast

Quote:

"Only the Government would have you believe that by cutting a foot off the top of a blanket and sewing it on the bottom, you would have a longer blanket." - alleged Cherokee commentary on Daylight Savings Time

73, Lawrence GJ3RAX

Re: Completed Clock Kit with Enclosure #clock #enclosure

jjpurdum
 

Roger:

Looks great! Nice idea on the plastic front.

Jack, W8TEE

On Monday, July 8, 2019, 10:09:31 AM EDT, Roger N5RWK <rwklein@...> wrote:


Here is my completed clock kit, using a 4x20 display.  The case I used was a Hammond RM2015L, which I purchased from Mouser for $8.49 plus shipping.  I replaced the blank plastic front of the case with a piece of plexiglass cut to the same size.  I masked it off on the inside to fit the display, and then spray painted it flat black.  For power, I'm using an old USB cable that I cut up and it's plugged into a 5V wall wart.  The case nicely fits the clock, display and GPS.

I programmed it to display my grid square and call on line 1.  Lines 2 and 3 alternate between UTC and local time and date, and Line 4 displays GPS stats, latitude, longitude and altitude.

Completed Clock Kit with Enclosure #clock #enclosure

Roger N5RWK
 

Here is my completed clock kit, using a 4x20 display.  The case I used was a Hammond RM2015L, which I purchased from Mouser for $8.49 plus shipping.  I replaced the blank plastic front of the case with a piece of plexiglass cut to the same size.  I masked it off on the inside to fit the display, and then spray painted it flat black.  For power, I'm using an old USB cable that I cut up and it's plugged into a 5V wall wart.  The case nicely fits the clock, display and GPS.

I programmed it to display my grid square and call on line 1.  Lines 2 and 3 alternate between UTC and local time and date, and Line 4 displays GPS stats, latitude, longitude and altitude.

Re: my transceiver. just bragging :) #qcx

Michael N6MST
 

On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 05:27 AM, David R. Hassall WA5DJJ wrote:
Where did the file for printing the keyer paddle come from?
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2054230

Re: QCX/QSX Elmering and Discussion

Kent Trimble, K9ZTV <k9ztv@...>
 

The need to standardize time throughout the world is why Greenwich Mean Time was established for nautical purposes throughout the British empire and later adopted by telegraphic operators. It should always be used for amateur radio purposes.

73,

Kent K9ZTV

On Jul 8, 2019, at 7:50 AM, Bill Cromwell <wrcromwell@...> wrote:

Hi,

Let me confirm that it is EDT (Eastern Daylight-saving Time) but that is four hours behind Zulu, GMT, CUT time. EST (Eastern Standard Time) is -5 hours. We are presently on EDT.

I am in Michigan and in the Michigan QRP Club along with Ed - 150 or so miles apart.

73,

Bill KU8H

On 7/8/19 8:29 AM, geoff M0ORE via Groups.Io wrote:
Is Eastern time ( US and Canada) the same as EDT?? i.e. 5 hours lagging on BST.
On 08/07/2019 12:37, Ed Kwik via Groups.Io wrote:
Hi Everyone!
AB8DF is inviting you to a scheduled Zoom meeting.

Please join us Monday July 8 at 7:00 PM EDT for our next QRP Labs QCX/QSX transceiver Chat where the main topics will be the QRP Labs QCX single band CW transceiver and the soon to be released QSX multiband
CW/SSB transceiver. It's fun, it's easy, and it's free. You only need a computer, a smart phone, or a tablet that can connect to the Internet. OR if you can't be close to any of those you can join by audio with any standard phone. Just follow the directions below.

No software needs be loaded or installed.

MIQRP CLUB is inviting you to a scheduled Zoom meeting.

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--
bark less - wag more



Re: QCX/QSX Elmering and Discussion

Bill Cromwell
 

Hi,

Let me confirm that it is EDT (Eastern Daylight-saving Time) but that is four hours behind Zulu, GMT, CUT time. EST (Eastern Standard Time) is -5 hours. We are presently on EDT.

I am in Michigan and in the Michigan QRP Club along with Ed - 150 or so miles apart.

73,

Bill KU8H

On 7/8/19 8:29 AM, geoff M0ORE via Groups.Io wrote:
Is Eastern time ( US and Canada) the same as EDT?? i.e. 5 hours lagging on BST.
On 08/07/2019 12:37, Ed Kwik via Groups.Io wrote:
Hi Everyone!
AB8DF is inviting you to a scheduled Zoom meeting.

Please join us Monday July 8 at 7:00 PM EDT for our next QRP Labs QCX/QSX transceiver Chat where the main topics will be the QRP Labs QCX single band CW transceiver and the soon to be released QSX multiband
CW/SSB transceiver. It's fun, it's easy, and it's free. You only need a computer, a smart phone, or a tablet that can connect to the Internet. OR if you can't be close to any of those you can join by audio with any standard phone. Just follow the directions below.

No software needs be loaded or installed.

MIQRP CLUB is inviting you to a scheduled Zoom meeting.

Topic: MIQRP QCX/QSX discussion
Time: Jul8, 2019 7:00 PM Eastern Time (US and Canada)

Join Zoom Meeting
https://zoom.us/j/200792220

One tap mobile
+16465588656,,200792220# US (New York)
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Dial by your location
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Meeting ID: 200 792 220
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--
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Re: prog rock ge mastr exec ii

Bob M.
 

Robin: Thanks for the filter recommendation. I would need two of them though, one for TX, one for RX, and the freqs are significantly far from the common ham bands that I'd need to fiddle with component values to make them do anything useful. One would need to cover 6.5-7.5 MHz, the other 9-11 MHz. Granted, once I retune the station from 26.31 MHz to 29.6 MHz, I would only need one set of filters, at the high end of those ranges.

Easily tunable filters would be more useful for this project, possibly with variable capacitors in each stage.

Bob M.

Re: QCX/QSX Elmering and Discussion

geoff M0ORE
 

Is Eastern time ( US and Canada) the same as EDT?? i.e. 5 hours lagging on BST.

On 08/07/2019 12:37, Ed Kwik via Groups.Io wrote:
Hi Everyone!
AB8DF is inviting you to a scheduled Zoom meeting.

Please join us Monday July 8 at 7:00 PM EDT for our next QRP Labs QCX/QSX transceiver Chat where the main topics will be the QRP Labs QCX single band CW transceiver and the soon to be released QSX multiband
CW/SSB transceiver. It's fun, it's easy, and it's free. You only need a computer, a smart phone, or a tablet that can connect to the Internet. OR if you can't be close to any of those you can join by audio with any standard phone. Just follow the directions below.

No software needs be loaded or installed.

MIQRP CLUB is inviting you to a scheduled Zoom meeting.

Topic: MIQRP QCX/QSX discussion
Time: Jul8, 2019 7:00 PM Eastern Time (US and Canada)

Join Zoom Meeting
https://zoom.us/j/200792220

One tap mobile
+16465588656,,200792220# US (New York)
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Dial by your location
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Jul 8, 2019 7:00 PM        Ed AB8DF
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AB8DF




Re: my transceiver. just bragging :) #qcx

David R. Hassall WA5DJJ
 

Dear Andy,

Where did the file for printing the keyer paddle come from?   I have been looking for that version of the paddle key and have not been able to find it so I could try to print me one.
Good luck on your new QCX.   The Greatest little QRP Rig I have ever seen and built.

Take care and have fun.
73 Dave WA5DJJ

QCX/QSX Elmering and Discussion

Ed Kwik
 

Hi Everyone!
AB8DF is inviting you to a scheduled Zoom meeting.

Please join us Monday July 8 at 7:00 PM EDT for our next QRP Labs QCX/QSX transceiver Chat where the main topics will be the QRP Labs QCX single band CW transceiver and the soon to be released QSX multiband
CW/SSB transceiver. It's fun, it's easy, and it's free. You only need a computer, a smart phone, or a tablet that can connect to the Internet. OR if you can't be close to any of those you can join by audio with any standard phone. Just follow the directions below.

No software needs be loaded or installed.

MIQRP CLUB is inviting you to a scheduled Zoom meeting.

Topic: MIQRP QCX/QSX discussion
Time: Jul8, 2019 7:00 PM Eastern Time (US and Canada)

Join Zoom Meeting
https://zoom.us/j/200792220

One tap mobile
+16465588656,,200792220# US (New York)
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Dial by your location
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Re: Well another QCX is born!

Stephen
 

i have a 9:1 unun coming for the end fed wire. i have room right now for half a wave on 40m.
i just put it on a 15 volt supply and measured at the dummy load , did the calc and got 4.49 watts.
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Stephen - AC2GW