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moderated A/P Kristen: worth it?

 

Greetings:

Ebay has a Kristen A/P listed for US$4,850.  Looks like it's in great condition. This isn't the first time it's been listed.  I haven't seen any bids on it. Now I'm curious as to what you think:  Is this one appropriately priced? Not a lot of true collectibles have been up there for quite a while now. This is one of them. The sparse listings tend to confirm my thesis that there simply aren't that many out there and of those that remain, most are being held up by collectors.

Rob Frankel
TheArtistWhoLovedWomen.com

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The pricing is absurd. That's why no bids.
$4850? Puhleeeeeeze!

 

Forget the "no bids".  Where are all the collectibles to even bid on?

Last year, I had a call from Europe, where Nagel wasn't as big, from a buyer who was prepared to pay for a Kristen, but wouldn't touch the $5K + shipping price tag.

Rob Frankel
TheArtistWhoLovedWomen.com

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Craigslist. Offerup. Prints can be a PITA to ship.

Cooper_Monster
 

Although it seems a tad pricey, I don't think it's out of line, particularly if you view it as an opening offer to a negotiation. (Not that I'm in the market to spend this much on anything I don't need right now.) And a few recent sales on eBay sort of justify the price - unless you view those as having sold for too much. But those apparently did sell, so it establishes benchmarks.

Take a look at what a Texas (Rio) Artist's Proof just brought - $2500. If that's the new market benchmark, $4850 doesn't seem out of line for a piece that's considerably rarer. (Though one could argue about which is more desirable. The image of Texas is certainly better known to the public, but Kristen is probably better art, though with a more limited market.)

Then there's $1800 for a S/N Panther and $1500 for a S/N Joan Collins.

You need to look at the market in two ways, what you're willing to pay and what offer will cause you to sell. They are often very different for any one person, but between buyer and seller, the two need to match up. If you owned a Kristen, would you sell it for $5000? For someone, this looks like it's their "I don't want to sell it, but come close and I will" price.

 

I happen to agree with you on the price: US$5K is on the upper edge, but not completely out of the question.  And US$1,500 for Joan Collins is pretty amazing, considering that it was one of Nagel's largest runs and least desirable (at the time).

Rob Frankel
TheArtistWhoLovedWomen.com

 

The dregs of lists like Craigslist and Offerup are flooded with cheapo stuff, although on rare occasions, you might find a lightning strike yielding a collectible.  After years of scrounging around on EBay and higher end auction sites, I snagged my collectible Gray Lady off of Craigslist.  So it does happen....just not very often.

Rob Frankel
TheArtistWhoLovedWomen.com

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Ebay is flooded with cheapo stuff too. You just have to wade through it. I've found quite a few signed lifetime prints on Craigslist. I found my Cleo on CL. Maybe you're in the wrong city.


On Wednesday, January 23, 2019, robfrankel <rob@...> wrote:
The dregs of lists like Craigslist and Offerup are flooded with cheapo stuff, although on rare occasions, you might find a lightning strike yielding a collectible.  After years of scrounging around on EBay and higher end auction sites, I snagged my collectible Gray Lady off of Craigslist.  So it does happen....just not very often.

Rob Frankel
TheArtistWhoLovedWomen.com

countach2
 

What Texas brought $2,500? Seems fishy considering that Texas 2/250 was on ebay THEEE times in a row recently and nobody would pay even $1,000 for it. Sometimes a fool overpays. One sale doesn't mean they're all suddenly valuable.

"You need to look at the market in two ways, what you're willing to pay and what offer will cause you to sell."

Two of the Nagel's I've looked at lately came from storage auctions where somebody didn't pay their rent. Others come on the market because somebody died. It's not always a collector parting with their prized possession.


On Wednesday, January 23, 2019, Cooper_Monster <rkanyok@...> wrote:

Although it seems a tad pricey, I don't think it's out of line, particularly if you view it as an opening offer to a negotiation. (Not that I'm in the market to spend this much on anything I don't need right now.) And a few recent sales on eBay sort of justify the price - unless you view those as having sold for too much. But those apparently did sell, so it establishes benchmarks.

Take a look at what a Texas (Rio) Artist's Proof just brought - $2500. If that's the new market benchmark, $4850 doesn't seem out of line for a piece that's considerably rarer. (Though one could argue about which is more desirable. The image of Texas is certainly better known to the public, but Kristen is probably better art, though with a more limited market.)

Then there's $1800 for a S/N Panther and $1500 for a S/N Joan Collins.

You need to look at the market in two ways, what you're willing to pay and what offer will cause you to sell. They are often very different for any one person, but between buyer and seller, the two need to match up. If you owned a Kristen, would you sell it for $5000? For someone, this looks like it's their "I don't want to sell it, but come close and I will" price.

Cooper_Monster
 

Yes, we all love to find bargains and I've spotted a few on Craigslist, but have no way to get to them, as the sellers wouldn't ship. If I had a better city to fly from, I'd be tempted to fly in, inspect and pay for them, and ship or carry them back in a hard case myself, but I haven't found anything that good yet. Or I just need to make friends with a local who can go get them for me. However, if you're after a specific piece, you might wait a long time to get one out of a storage locker or an estate. Most people don't have that patience, which is why they pay up.

As for the Texas that sold for $2500, the asking was $3000, they took an offer.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Patrick-Nagel-Texas-aka-Rio-Hand-Signed-Limited-Edition-Artist-s-Proof-AP/223287791633?hash=item33fcfd5011:g:OVQAAOSwydRbkJVU

countach2
 

Well, if somebody paid $2,500 for that, I think they overpaid going by the failure of the other piece I mentioned to fetch $1,000 when it was on ebay for a month with 9 people watching it each time it was active.

I haven't been patiently waiting for storage auction items to come up for sale. I just go look at pieces I'm interested in and find out that's how they came on the market.

On Jan 23, 2019, at 6:39 PM, Cooper_Monster <rkanyok@...> wrote:

Yes, we all love to find bargains and I've spotted a few on Craigslist, but have no way to get to them, as the sellers wouldn't ship. If I had a better city to fly from, I'd be tempted to fly in, inspect and pay for them, and ship or carry them back in a hard case myself, but I haven't found anything that good yet. Or I just need to make friends with a local who can go get them for me. However, if you're after a specific piece, you might wait a long time to get one out of a storage locker or an estate. Most people don't have that patience, which is why they pay up.

As for the Texas that sold for $2500, the asking was $3000, they took an offer.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Patrick-Nagel-Texas-aka-Rio-Hand-Signed-Limited-Edition-Artist-s-Proof-AP/223287791633?hash=item33fcfd5011:g:OVQAAOSwydRbkJVU

 

....all of which goes to show that if you hunt for them, there are still bargains out there.  Everything from pristine collectibles to (believe it or not) rare canvas pieces.  As for retrieving them, I've sourced pieces from all parts of the country and shipping was never an issue.  In fact, the shipping issue is more about lazy sellers than anything else.   I've offered to send a professional packer/shipper to the place of sale and been refused.  Other sellers (on larger transactions) custom built wood shipping crates.  Impressed the hell out of me!

Rob Frankel
TheArtistWhoLovedWomen.com

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Who said anything about a bargain? I paid full market.

My point is that many sellers prefer to sell artwork locally on Craigslist because they don't want to be bothered shipping large prints which is what eBay usually requires.

If you limit your searches to on-line auctions you're missing a lot of prints that are on the market.

On Jan 24, 2019, at 7:32 AM, robfrankel <rob@...> wrote:

....all of which goes to show that if you hunt for them, there are still bargains out there.  Everything from pristine collectibles to (believe it or not) rare canvas pieces.  As for retrieving them, I've sourced pieces from all parts of the country and shipping was never an issue.  In fact, the shipping issue is more about lazy sellers than anything else.   I've offered to send a professional packer/shipper to the place of sale and been refused.  Other sellers (on larger transactions) custom built wood shipping crates.  Impressed the hell out of me!

Rob Frankel
TheArtistWhoLovedWomen.com

 

I said something about bargains, because a fair number of the people on Craigslist that I've found had no idea of the value of the pieces they were selling.  Also, I've initiated discussions with some sellers that resulted in my packaging a purchase that yielded tremendously valuable bargains, especially because we worked out alternate shipping methods.

Just because EBay wants you to do it their way doesn't always mean you do.  I certainly don't.

The window on buying collectible Nagel pieces is, in my opinion, closing.  That may not mean anything to you as a collector, but to collectors and traders, it's very telling -- and encouraging -- for both investors and Nagel fans who want to see his legacy preserved. 

Rob Frankel
TheArtistWhoLovedWomen.com

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Edited

I'm not talking about ebay requiring things. I'm talking about ebay sellers having to ship items.

You originally asked why there aren't more collectibles up for auction. I'm trying to explain that it may be because sellers don't want to have to ship big items, so they use Craigslist or Offerup instead.
 
To me, using Craigslist and Offerup isn't about finding bargains. It's about finding pieces that I'm looking for. Pieces that lazy sellers don't want to ship.


On Jan 24, 2019, at 5:54 PM, robfrankel <rob@...> wrote:

I said something about bargains, because a fair number of the people on Craigslist that I've found had no idea of the value of the pieces they were selling.  Also, I've initiated discussions with some sellers that resulted in my packaging a purchase that yielded tremendously valuable bargains, especially because we worked out alternate shipping methods.

Just because EBay wants you to do it their way doesn't always mean you do.  I certainly don't.

The window on buying collectible Nagel pieces is, in my opinion, closing.  That may not mean anything to you as a collector, but to collectors and traders, it's very telling -- and encouraging -- for both investors and Nagel fans who want to see his legacy preserved. 

Rob Frankel
TheArtistWhoLovedWomen.com

 

...and I'm saying that no matter where I hunt, there are simply far fewer collectibles than ever before.

Rob Frankel
TheArtistWhoLovedWomen.com

countach2
 

Well, you originally said "up for auction", which suggests you're only scouring auction sites. Craigslist and Offerup aren't auction sites.

The way I imagine it, the pieces change hands a few times until they eventually find their way to people who intend to keep them for the rest of their lives and won't give them up. Many get ruined and/or tossed along the way. Collectible cars become harder and harder to find as well. We have to wait for people to die now to get these pieces in many cases. The scarcity in the market elevates values/prices. It's doubtful that pieces will become easier to find unless we have a big recession and people need to sell.


On Jan 25, 2019, at 7:41 AM, robfrankel <rob@...> wrote:

...and I'm saying that no matter where I hunt, there are simply far fewer collectibles than ever before.

Rob Frankel
TheArtistWhoLovedWomen.com

 

Apparently, you choose to be literal.  If that's the case, I'll spell it out for you:

ANY sales site/operation/venue/program/market/vehicle which one would choose to view/browse/search/shop has had far fewer/less/a greatly reduced number/not as many as before collectible Nagel pieces.

Hope that clears things up for you.

Rob Frankel
TheArtistWhoLovedWomen.com

countach2
 

Apparently you choose to be a complete ass, blaming others for your own lack of grasp of the English language.


On Jan 25, 2019, at 2:09 PM, robfrankel <rob@...> wrote:

Apparently, you choose to be literal.  If that's the case, I'll spell it out for you:

ANY sales site/operation/venue/program/market/vehicle which one would choose to view/browse/search/shop has had far fewer/less/a greatly reduced number/not as many as before collectible Nagel pieces.

Hope that clears things up for you.

Rob Frankel
TheArtistWhoLovedWomen.com

countach2
 

How did you get to be such a dick, anyway?


On Jan 25, 2019, at 2:09 PM, robfrankel <rob@...> wrote:

Apparently, you choose to be literal.  If that's the case, I'll spell it out for you:

ANY sales site/operation/venue/program/market/vehicle which one would choose to view/browse/search/shop has had far fewer/less/a greatly reduced number/not as many as before collectible Nagel pieces.

Hope that clears things up for you.

Rob Frankel
TheArtistWhoLovedWomen.com