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Heads up: "Yochum/Kay" at a bargain price?

 

Greetings:

For those of you intent on owning a genuine Yochum/Kay, it appears there's one in Southern California at a bargain price:

Check it out: https://sandiego.craigslist.org/csd/clt/d/san-diego-1981-patrick-nagel-yochum-kay/7034987734.html

Rob Frankel
TheArtistWhoLovedWomen.com

Re: Gray Lady Saturday auction Clark's Fine Art

. .
 

We all love Nagel .  Before everyone downs person that bought this gray lady remember  it might be someone that has the money to.save this nagel print.  I am glad she sold and has chance to be restored 

Re: Gray Lady Saturday auction Clark's Fine Art

Manuel Rodriguez
 

Loved the post Rob. People just don’t learn, ever...

On Sat, Dec 7, 2019 at 7:21 PM robfrankel <rob@...> wrote:

Well, someone got stuck with the Gray Lady at auction today.  It went for US$750, which given the piece and the sellers, is probably about US$725 more than what it's actually worth.  But if you're the buyer, enjoy what you've got.

In the meantime, I did a little more research and can pretty much bet that the "pink lipped" version that sold at auction for US$2,500 was/is most likely a fake. The auction house -- not one of my favorites -- states that it was an S/P and "part of the 90 piece run.  Unfortunately, the only Gray Lady that ran for 90 pieces was completely gray.  Some later reissues may have been recolored, but not the original limited edition.  

If you were THAT buyer, you have my condolences.

Rob Frankel
TheArtistWhoLovedWomen.com

 

Re: Gray Lady Saturday auction Clark's Fine Art

 

Well, someone got stuck with the Gray Lady at auction today.  It went for US$750, which given the piece and the sellers, is probably about US$725 more than what it's actually worth.  But if you're the buyer, enjoy what you've got.

In the meantime, I did a little more research and can pretty much bet that the "pink lipped" version that sold at auction for US$2,500 was/is most likely a fake. The auction house -- not one of my favorites -- states that it was an S/P and "part of the 90 piece run.  Unfortunately, the only Gray Lady that ran for 90 pieces was completely gray.  Some later reissues may have been recolored, but not the original limited edition.  

If you were THAT buyer, you have my condolences.

Rob Frankel
TheArtistWhoLovedWomen.com

 

Re: Gray Lady Saturday auction Clark's Fine Art

 

Greetings:

Monica's analysis is spot on, and I would go even further by suggesting that there are reputable auction houses and there are junk houses run by pirates.  Please be careful where you bid and what you bid on. In this case, you can see how the auction house's description varies significantly from Monica's account.  Personally, I'd avoid just about everything offered here, knowing that variance.

As for Gray Lady's pink lips versus gray, all I can offer is the following, which begins with a wikipedia definition of artist's proof:

An artist's proof is, at least in theory, an impression of a print taken in the printmaking process to see the current printing state of a plate while the plate is being worked on by the artist. A proof may show a clearly incomplete image, often called a working proof or trial impression, but in modern practice is usually used to describe an impression of the finished work that is identical to the numbered copies. There can also be printer's proofs which are taken for the printer to see how the image is printing, or are final impressions the printer is allowed to keep; but normally the term "artist's proof" would cover both cases.

When you think about it, that's the whole point of the word proof being included in the description:  The piece is supposed to be proof of the process's quality, up to the standards of the artist and/or printer.  If they are indeed up to those standards, they are just as valuable as the numbered editions and are not destroyed.  They're simply designated as proofs and more often than not, gifted to those who helped with its production. Since the presses would have to be stopped to re-screen and re-ink the piece to accommodate pink lips, it's doubtful that the original run was anything other than gray, meaning that whatever pink versions exist, they are not part of the limited Gray Lady edition.

At this point, the question is open as to why any pink-lipped versions would exist. There are several theories:

First, we all know of the widespread counterfeiting having occurred with Nagel's pieces.  It's fair to assume that Gray Lady, being as popular as she is, was affected by this.  The fact that such editions would appear in less-than-reputable auction houses and galleries fits with this explanation.  Second, it is known that Karl Bornstein had a very keen eye for palettes and did authorize the publication of variations of several pieces.  Papillon is one of those examples, but there are several more that were published after Nagel's death.  Third, recall that Gray Lady suffered from cheap reproductions and lithographs, which means that after Nagel's death, it was the wild west out there, with unscrupulous printers and opportunistic publishers flooding the market with worthless images.

At this point, I can't say which explanation is the definitive truth.  I can say with reasonable confidence that Gray Lady with lips colored anything other than gray is extremely suspect.

Rob Frankel
TheArtistWhoLovedWomen.com

Gray Lady Saturday auction Clark's Fine Art

Monica Moynihan
 

Hello Nagelites,  

For bidders who hope to win "Gray Lady" and would like her in your collection, I live in Los Angeles and will from time to time preview Clark's Fine Art & Auctioneers, where I have had wonderful winning luck as you may know (always live in person). I do not have a "Gray Lady" and wanted to see this one for myself and help a couple curious cats that reached out to me. I am only the messenger as a helpful resource about the condition of the piece ONLY.  I am not here to make commentary about the auction house itself.

The condition online states: 

Toning and speckles in margins, lips gray rather than pink, otherwise in apparently good condition.

I have decided to pass and my bail-out is your benefit if you move forward. :-) Local pick up probably save $200 in shipping this large piece, but it is still not enough savings for me on this one. I am attaching the photos I took and you can decide for yourself. There is foxing throughout the white borders, although its hard to see if its come through the gray areas under glass. Around the border is a solid fairly thick brown outline border. I did not measure it but it may be 1/2" or so. The gallery called it "mat burn." I am not a restorer of any kind, so I will just reference ArtCareInc.com for description. "Mat burn is caused by an acidic window mat. It is the cut edge of the mat board which is mostly acidic and damaging to a work on paper. It isn't always visible on matted and framed works. But, an acidic mat is a slow fire which burns paper, marring its appearance and reducing its value." 

It will need full restoration by a true screen print professional, which can be hard to find. I left a message for one of gallery recommended restorers two days ago with details, but as of today, I did not hear back. I do not know how much restoration will cost, but my last restoration estimate from Restoration By Heart in Los Angeles was approximately $800 for a smaller piece, a "Kristen" AP on Chairish, which I sent back. (BTW: Beware of the "Kristen" AP on Chairish, note some pics for future as these prints tend to move around. You probably shouldn't buy (foxing, discoloration on back and front, warping in paper and so on). I have more info on it if anyone wants copy of the estimate or detailed pics.

Anyway back to "Gray Lady" ... There is one bid on Clark's "Gray Lady", currently at $625.00 including premium.  Hopefully, one of you out there has deep enough pockets to save the GL, but I am going to hold off for one in better condition and not end up with a piece that is destined to be called "restored."

https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/78516779_patrick-nagel-1945-1984-california

Oh, one more thing!! Clark's mention of Gray Lips. I have always known gray lip color to be the way the piece was intended on the s/n editions; but, Clark insists the AP which he sold in July had pink lips. I did check the old photos and sure enough that appears to be correct. If some of you recall that AP sold for $2500 gavel down before premium. A very high number this summer. I was there and honestly didn't even notice the difference. Bad me but it wasn't clean enough for me! Somebody else out there must have and maybe was part of the hype this past summer on that particular AP. Or maybe printed as an AP it was different and it was just one like that? If anyone out there knows if all the "Gray Lady" AP editions happen to be different color on theirs, please let me know!! I want to see another one now! Thank you.  

Good luck to anyone bidding!!! Somebody save number 86!

Swimmersgirl

Real time chat is available

 

Greetings:

As you may know, this platform has the capability of providing real time chats. I have no experience with them, so I don't know how reliable or functional they are.  All I know is that if we ever want to have a live chat, this forum supposedly can accommodate it.  In order to access and participate, each member has to log on to the groups.io website, find our group and click on the chat icon.

I have no burning need to do so, but wanted you all to know that should there ever be an event -- say, an online auction we all wanted to watch in real time -- it could be fun.

Rob Frankel
TheArtistWhoLovedWomen.com

Re: New to Group/Quick Question about Lucky Strike Nagel Ads

cameronajavadi@...
 

Thanks for all the info...much appreciated.  I'm about a third done with your book and loving it, thanks!

Re: New to Group/Quick Question about Lucky Strike Nagel Ads

 

Welcome to the group!

There are some things I know, lots I don't know and plenty on which to speculate.

I can definitely tell you that there is no canvas of these images. All of the advertising projects Nagel produced were acrylic on illustration board. His canvas pieces didn't appear until very late in his career, about 1982, and all were fine art.  Several of his canvases were reproductions of his earlier illustrations, mostly for Playboy, and all were much larger than his usual desktop-sized acrylics.

I am not aware that Nagel's Luck Strike illustrations were ever published, but if they were, they'd likely have been lithographs, not serigraphs, used mainly for promotion. None of them were ever issued as signed limited editions or included in any Commemorative Series.  To my knowledge, none of Nagel's advertising work (most of which was done in the early through late 70s) ever was reissued in any collectible form.

Finally, in the book I go through the trials and tribulations of Nagel's getting caught in the gears of the Copyright Act of 1977, in which artists were granted the copyright to works they'd sold clients.  Prior to that, all artwork was considered a buyout, granting all rights and ownership to paying clients. The Lucky Strike works were created prior to the act, which means its highly likely that the client or its agency held on to the originals and likely still do.  Playboy still maintains the largest collection of Nagel's work for the very same reason.

Rob Frankel
The Artist Who Loved Women  <--- A Great Christmas gift!

New to Group/Quick Question about Lucky Strike Nagel Ads

cameronajavadi@...
 

Hello All,

I just joined the group and I was wondering if anyone knows the best way to obtain either the original canvas/draft of any of the Spain Lucky Strike Ad Campaign Nagels, or were there ever a high-quality serigraph/litho versions available?

I saw on some auction sites that the third image (please see attached) was sold at auction..., are the other two unaccounted for?  Basically, I'd like to get the best possible version of any or all of the Lucky Strike Ads.

Any info or suggestions would be greatly appreciated...thanks so much!

Re: Happy Birthday Patrick

Manuel Rodriguez
 

Hehe, that’s  what i thought it was but wasn’t sure. Gorgeous..

On Thu, Nov 28, 2019 at 11:57 AM Craig Blankenship <Craig@...> wrote:
A cake ?


On Nov 28, 2019, at 9:55 AM, Manuel Rodriguez <mannyar@...> wrote:

Monica, that's very cool. What exactly is that, though? 

On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 4:47 PM Monica Moynihan <monicaperkal@...> wrote:
Cheers to Patrick Nagel! 

I slaved all morning on this one. :-) Patrick would appreciate my sense of humor I think. 

Re: Happy Birthday Patrick

sheff@...
 

That's seriously cool.

Re: Happy Birthday Patrick

Craig Blankenship
 

A cake ?


On Nov 28, 2019, at 9:55 AM, Manuel Rodriguez <mannyar@...> wrote:

Monica, that's very cool. What exactly is that, though? 

On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 4:47 PM Monica Moynihan <monicaperkal@...> wrote:
Cheers to Patrick Nagel! 

I slaved all morning on this one. :-) Patrick would appreciate my sense of humor I think. 

Re: Happy Birthday Patrick

Manuel Rodriguez
 

Monica, that's very cool. What exactly is that, though? 

On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 4:47 PM Monica Moynihan <monicaperkal@...> wrote:
Cheers to Patrick Nagel! 

I slaved all morning on this one. :-) Patrick would appreciate my sense of humor I think. 

Re: Nagel to sell

Monica Moynihan
 

Samantha,

We didn't hear back from you with photos. We are all anxiously waiting to learn what you may have. I'm sure we would want them!

:-)

Monica 

Re: Upcoming auctions

ghostwritr@...
 

This one seems a little suspect to my untrained eye...

https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/78698004_patrick-nagel-acrylic-on-canvas-painting-signed#&gid=1&pid=1

Re: Upcoming auctions

Nagelcollector
 

Re Woman with House, the title says "after patrick," and if you read the description, it says "Patrick Nagel-style portrait.  So clearly, it's not a Nagel and the auction house is not trying to pawn it off as a Nagel. 

Upcoming auctions

 

Greetings:

There are lots of items coming up for auction in the near future (like the next three days), so if you're serious about buying, put on your bidding hats and ride.  A few of the items coming up are being offered by auction houses of various repute, so please do your homework before you jump in.  More than one of these have been accused and proven to have fraudulently listed pieces in terms of everything from condition to actual signatures.

Some of the pieces you can find online are at https://www.liveauctioneers.com/search/?keyword=patrick%20nagel&page=2&sort=-relevance&status=online:

Gray Lady 86/90: The description is pretty amateur and suspect. Condition merits an up close and person inspection if you can get there.
Mirage: But the preview is so closely cropped that you can't tell if it's got printing on it.
Woman with Horse (Montana):  An acrylic -- that's painted in reverse

LOTS of pirates out there.  Be careful.

Rob Frankel
TheArtistWhoLoved Women <---- Makes a GREAT Christmas gift!

Re: Happy Birthday Patrick

ghostwritr@...
 

That's awesome Monica!

Re: Happy Birthday Patrick

Monica Moynihan
 

Cheers to Patrick Nagel! 

I slaved all morning on this one. :-) Patrick would appreciate my sense of humor I think.