Topics

Quick X31 questions


Jim Gilmore
 

I have a couple of questions on X31 boxcars I need to confirm..............

X31 PRR # 60222 to 60721........Single door cars ?

X31 PRR # 69504 to 69997 ......Single door cars?

X31c PRR # 60800 to 61099 .....Single door cars ?

X31c PRR # 62800 to 63309 ....Single door cars?

X31f ...all were double door cars?

Yes or no is all I need to know for something I am writing up.


Jim Gilmore

Jim Thorpe, PA.


Bruce Smith
 

Jim,

Just to be 100% clear, there were NO single door X31, X31B, X31C, or X31F cars. The only single door cars in the X31 series were X31A. I'm, not sure where you would have gotten the idea that ANY of the car series you list were single door cars. All single door X31A were in the series 67400-68999, 70000-70399, 76400-81099.

# 60222 to 60721........Single door cars ?  No, these are X31 cars, Double Door, equipped with automobile loaders 

# 69504 to 69997 ......Single door cars? No, these are X31 cars, Double Door, equipped with automobile loaders 

# 60800 to 61099 .....Single door cars ? No, these are X31C cars, Double Door, equipped with automobile loaders

# 62800 to 63309 ....Single door cars? No, these are X31C cars, Double Door, equipped with automobile loaders

X31f ...all were double door cars? Yes. All X31F cars were converted from X31. 

I'd be happy to take a look at what you are writing to make sure that it is correct.

Regards,
Bruce 
Bruce Smith
Auburn AL


From: PRRPro@groups.io <PRRPro@groups.io> on behalf of Jim Gilmore via groups.io <jgilmore@...>
Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2020 2:31 PM
To: PRRPro@groups.io <PRRPro@groups.io>
Subject: [PRRPro] Quick X31 questions
 

I have a couple of questions on X31 boxcars I need to confirm..............

X31 PRR # 60222 to 60721........Single door cars ?

X31 PRR # 69504 to 69997 ......Single door cars?

X31c PRR # 60800 to 61099 .....Single door cars ?

X31c PRR # 62800 to 63309 ....Single door cars?

X31f ...all were double door cars?

Yes or no is all I need to know for something I am writing up.


Jim Gilmore

Jim Thorpe, PA.





Jim Gilmore
 

Bruce wrote.


".......Just to be 100% clear, there were NO single door X31, X31B, X31C, or X31F cars. The only single door cars in the X31 series were X31A.


I'm, not sure where you would have gotten the idea that ANY of the car series you list were single door cars. All single door X31A were in the series 67400-68999, 70000-70399, 76400-81099....."



The idea came from this listing of the cars on  Robert Schoenberg's  PRR web site ---  http://prr.railfan.net/freight/dispclass.cgi?class=X31


Here is what it shows and only notes X31a # 69000-69499, 81100-81199 & 120003-120011 as having double doors.  That is why I asked the questions.


Cars on the PRR roster (as listed in the Official Railway Equipment Register (ORER)):

Class Car Number AAR Class PRR Oct 44 PRR Oct 48 PRR Apr 52 PRR Oct 53 PRR Oct 58 PRR Oct 63 PRR Apr 68
X31 59862 60111 XA XM XMR 35 35 35 35 35 34 -
X31 60222 60721 XA XAR XM XMR 212 212 210 210 208 208 2
X31 69504 69997 XA XAR XM XMR 203 202 202 202 199 197 4
X31a 67400 68999 XA XAP XM XMP XP LC 1595 1588 1580 1578 1559 1524 176
X31a 69999 70399 XM XMP XP 399 395 393 393 389 378 43
X31a 76400 81099 XM XMP XP 4678 4661 4645 4635 4593 4496 775
X31a DBL DR 69000 69499 XA XAP XM XMP XMR 500 498 496 496 491 483 9
X31a DBL DR 81100 81199 XA XM XMP 100 100 100 99 98 95 1
X31a DBL DR 120003 120011 XA XM 9 9 9 9 9 9 1
X31b 61100 62799 XAP XM XML XMP XMR 1186 1184 1182 1181 1173 1132 11
X31c 60800 61099 XA XM XAR XMR 300 300 299 297 294 280 -
X31c 62800 63309 XM XMR XR 509 506 503 503 501 480 11
X31f 81200 81889 XM XAR XMR XR 690 690 688 688 686 680 12
X31g 77742 - LC - - - - 1 1 1




Jim Gilmore
Jim Thorpe, PA.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

On 6/27/2020 9:33 PM, Bruce Smith wrote:
Jim,

Just to be 100% clear, there were NO single door X31, X31B, X31C, or X31F cars. The only single door cars in the X31 series were X31A. I'm, not sure where you would have gotten the idea that ANY of the car series you list were single door cars. All single door X31A were in the series 67400-68999, 70000-70399, 76400-81099.

# 60222 to 60721........Single door cars ?  No, these are X31 cars, Double Door, equipped with automobile loaders 

# 69504 to 69997 ......Single door cars? No, these are X31 cars, Double Door, equipped with automobile loaders 

# 60800 to 61099 .....Single door cars ? No, these are X31C cars, Double Door, equipped with automobile loaders

# 62800 to 63309 ....Single door cars? No, these are X31C cars, Double Door, equipped with automobile loaders

X31f ...all were double door cars? Yes. All X31F cars were converted from X31. 

I'd be happy to take a look at what you are writing to make sure that it is correct.

Regards,
Bruce 
Bruce Smith
Auburn AL


From: PRRPro@groups.io <PRRPro@groups.io> on behalf of Jim Gilmore via groups.io <jgilmore@...>
Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2020 2:31 PM
To: PRRPro@groups.io <PRRPro@groups.io>
Subject: [PRRPro] Quick X31 questions
 

I have a couple of questions on X31 boxcars I need to confirm..............

X31 PRR # 60222 to 60721........Single door cars ?

X31 PRR # 69504 to 69997 ......Single door cars?

X31c PRR # 60800 to 61099 .....Single door cars ?

X31c PRR # 62800 to 63309 ....Single door cars?

X31f ...all were double door cars?

Yes or no is all I need to know for something I am writing up.


Jim Gilmore

Jim Thorpe, PA.





Bruce Smith
 

JIm,

A great resource on the X31 series of cars is the Railroad Prototype Cyclopedia (RP cyc), volume 22, and, of course, an ORER. 

While Rob's pages are an outstanding source of information, I would not use those as the only reference. The table Rob posted does actually have most of the answers to your questions, if you just look 2 columns over. There, the designation "XA" indicates an automobile car with doorways at least 10' in width. About the only way to get that in the 1930s would be to be a double door car. You'll notice that the first two series of X31A cars are class "XM", not XA, indicating that they are general service boxcars (and thus single door cars). When you get the X31B, it is class XAP, which is similar to XA. A quick check of the 1943 ORER show the X31B listed as XA and XAP. The only real confusion comes with the 2nd group of X31C in that table and here a quick check of that ORER shows that this group of cars is listed as XA and XAR, Auto, Steel, Stagg. (staggered) Doors. That means that the table, which is a "secondary source" is not completely accurate. The table is also not completely correct for the X31F in that it fails to show that the ORER designation of these cars, is, like the X31C XA in addition to XAR, although the XAR is sufficient to indicate double doors.

So, ultimately, rather than rely on a table of unknown ancestry off of the internet, it really behooves the scholar to use a primary source such as the ORER. If you don't have an ORER, they are an invaluable resource for prototype modeling, and not just with respect to the PRR (although we all have to be eternally grateful that the PRR included class designations in their ORER entries). My paper 1943 ORER was a reprint throughout the NMRA, and Westerfield offers multiple era ORERs on rotational media.

Regards,
Bruce

Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: PRRPro@groups.io <PRRPro@groups.io> on behalf of Jim Gilmore via groups.io <jgilmore@...>
Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2020 9:13 AM
To: PRRPro@groups.io <PRRPro@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [PRRPro] Quick X31 questions
 

Bruce wrote.


".......Just to be 100% clear, there were NO single door X31, X31B, X31C, or X31F cars. The only single door cars in the X31 series were X31A.


I'm, not sure where you would have gotten the idea that ANY of the car series you list were single door cars. All single door X31A were in the series 67400-68999, 70000-70399, 76400-81099....."



The idea came from this listing of the cars on  Robert Schoenberg's  PRR web site ---  http://prr.railfan.net/freight/dispclass.cgi?class=X31


Here is what it shows and only notes X31a # 69000-69499, 81100-81199 & 120003-120011 as having double doors.  That is why I asked the questions.


Cars on the PRR roster (as listed in the Official Railway Equipment Register (ORER)):

Class Car Number AAR Class PRR Oct 44 PRR Oct 48 PRR Apr 52 PRR Oct 53 PRR Oct 58 PRR Oct 63 PRR Apr 68
X31 59862 60111 XA XM XMR 35 35 35 35 35 34 -
X31 60222 60721 XA XAR XM XMR 212 212 210 210 208 208 2
X31 69504 69997 XA XAR XM XMR 203 202 202 202 199 197 4
X31a 67400 68999 XA XAP XM XMP XP LC 1595 1588 1580 1578 1559 1524 176
X31a 69999 70399 XM XMP XP 399 395 393 393 389 378 43
X31a 76400 81099 XM XMP XP 4678 4661 4645 4635 4593 4496 775
X31a DBL DR 69000 69499 XA XAP XM XMP XMR 500 498 496 496 491 483 9
X31a DBL DR 81100 81199 XA XM XMP 100 100 100 99 98 95 1
X31a DBL DR 120003 120011 XA XM 9 9 9 9 9 9 1
X31b 61100 62799 XAP XM XML XMP XMR 1186 1184 1182 1181 1173 1132 11
X31c 60800 61099 XA XM XAR XMR 300 300 299 297 294 280 -
X31c 62800 63309 XM XMR XR 509 506 503 503 501 480 11
X31f 81200 81889 XM XAR XMR XR 690 690 688 688 686 680 12
X31g 77742 - LC - - - - 1 1 1




Jim Gilmore
Jim Thorpe, PA.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

On 6/27/2020 9:33 PM, Bruce Smith wrote:
Jim,

Just to be 100% clear, there were NO single door X31, X31B, X31C, or X31F cars. The only single door cars in the X31 series were X31A. I'm, not sure where you would have gotten the idea that ANY of the car series you list were single door cars. All single door X31A were in the series 67400-68999, 70000-70399, 76400-81099.

# 60222 to 60721........Single door cars ?  No, these are X31 cars, Double Door, equipped with automobile loaders 

# 69504 to 69997 ......Single door cars? No, these are X31 cars, Double Door, equipped with automobile loaders 

# 60800 to 61099 .....Single door cars ? No, these are X31C cars, Double Door, equipped with automobile loaders

# 62800 to 63309 ....Single door cars? No, these are X31C cars, Double Door, equipped with automobile loaders

X31f ...all were double door cars? Yes. All X31F cars were converted from X31. 

I'd be happy to take a look at what you are writing to make sure that it is correct.

Regards,
Bruce 
Bruce Smith
Auburn AL


From: PRRPro@groups.io <PRRPro@groups.io> on behalf of Jim Gilmore via groups.io <jgilmore@...>
Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2020 2:31 PM
To: PRRPro@groups.io <PRRPro@groups.io>
Subject: [PRRPro] Quick X31 questions
 

I have a couple of questions on X31 boxcars I need to confirm..............

X31 PRR # 60222 to 60721........Single door cars ?

X31 PRR # 69504 to 69997 ......Single door cars?

X31c PRR # 60800 to 61099 .....Single door cars ?

X31c PRR # 62800 to 63309 ....Single door cars?

X31f ...all were double door cars?

Yes or no is all I need to know for something I am writing up.


Jim Gilmore

Jim Thorpe, PA.