Topics

H25 paint shop


Bruce Smith
 

Folks,

Progress in the paint shop!  I put several coats on FCC on two of the three H25's over the weekend. I was using my PolyScale mix... when I ran out. And that's it... no more... Now what to do?  I had picked up some Vallejo colors to experiment with, so I dug them out and what I was most happy with was 4 parts Red Leather (818) to 1 part Purpleheart red (amaranth)(829). I think that the amaranth might be pretty close to a 1930s FCC, but its a bit too orange for 1940s era color... I'm not 100% happy with the mix I made. It needs a touch more red, I think.

Oh, and both colors were from the Model Color line. They are so thick that they are almost impossible to get out of the Vallejo dropper bottle. I thinned about 6 parts deionized H2O to 4 parts paint. It went on great over the PolyScale and I like the look

So then, what about the 3rd car? Look at the photos, and I'm pretty sure you're going to think I've lost it (and that is entirely possible). I'm sure some of you will figure out what I'm doing, but the rest will just have to wait and see 🙂  The color is Vallejo Air (pre thinned for air brushing) RLM61 Dunkelbraun aka Dark Brown (71.042). I painted the entirety of one car with it and the interiors of the other two with it (which is kinda a giveaway about car #3)

Once the FCC cars were dry, I gave them a coat of Future to create a gloss base for decals. Now they are ready for decals! 

Regards,
Bruce

Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Dave Parker
 

Bruce, I can't tell the difference between Vallejo's Red Leather and PS Zn Cr Primer; they seem interchangeable.

As for the orange/oxide side of things, there are a number of choices.  The Amaranth is fine in moderation, but straight up it's way too orange for me, even in 1934. 

One of these days I will succeed in borrowing a Munsell book, and will find how how my prejudices align with the color committee's recommendations.

FWIW, I won't use Vallejo paints on bare resin (unlike PS), but their poly-acrylic primers seem to do the trick.
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Robert Flores
 

I KNOW IT WOULDN'T BE RIGHT FOR YOUR ERA,  BUT WERE ANY OF THE H25 CARS EVER PAINTEDBLACK?  1957??

BOB FLORES   COLUMBUS  OHIO  HOME OF THE PENNSY NATIONAL IN 2021

On Wednesday, April 29, 2020, 09:30:11 PM EDT, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:


Folks,

Progress in the paint shop!  I put several coats on FCC on two of the three H25's over the weekend. I was using my PolyScale mix... when I ran out. And that's it... no more... Now what to do?  I had picked up some Vallejo colors to experiment with, so I dug them out and what I was most happy with was 4 parts Red Leather (818) to 1 part Purpleheart red (amaranth)(829). I think that the amaranth might be pretty close to a 1930s FCC, but its a bit too orange for 1940s era color... I'm not 100% happy with the mix I made. It needs a touch more red, I think.

Oh, and both colors were from the Model Color line. They are so thick that they are almost impossible to get out of the Vallejo dropper bottle. I thinned about 6 parts deionized H2O to 4 parts paint. It went on great over the PolyScale and I like the look

So then, what about the 3rd car? Look at the photos, and I'm pretty sure you're going to think I've lost it (and that is entirely possible). I'm sure some of you will figure out what I'm doing, but the rest will just have to wait and see 🙂  The color is Vallejo Air (pre thinned for air brushing) RLM61 Dunkelbraun aka Dark Brown (71.042). I painted the entirety of one car with it and the interiors of the other two with it (which is kinda a giveaway about car #3)

Once the FCC cars were dry, I gave them a coat of Future to create a gloss base for decals. Now they are ready for decals! 

Regards,
Bruce

Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


O Fenton Wells
 

Looking good Bruce, for a guy who doesn’t know much about PRR hopper colors they look right on to me.  Well done
Fenton 


On Apr 29, 2020, at 11:14 PM, Robert Flores via groups.io <bobflores99@...> wrote:


I KNOW IT WOULDN'T BE RIGHT FOR YOUR ERA,  BUT WERE ANY OF THE H25 CARS EVER PAINTEDBLACK?  1957??

BOB FLORES   COLUMBUS  OHIO  HOME OF THE PENNSY NATIONAL IN 2021

On Wednesday, April 29, 2020, 09:30:11 PM EDT, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:


Folks,

Progress in the paint shop!  I put several coats on FCC on two of the three H25's over the weekend. I was using my PolyScale mix... when I ran out. And that's it... no more... Now what to do?  I had picked up some Vallejo colors to experiment with, so I dug them out and what I was most happy with was 4 parts Red Leather (818) to 1 part Purpleheart red (amaranth)(829). I think that the amaranth might be pretty close to a 1930s FCC, but its a bit too orange for 1940s era color... I'm not 100% happy with the mix I made. It needs a touch more red, I think.

Oh, and both colors were from the Model Color line. They are so thick that they are almost impossible to get out of the Vallejo dropper bottle. I thinned about 6 parts deionized H2O to 4 parts paint. It went on great over the PolyScale and I like the look

So then, what about the 3rd car? Look at the photos, and I'm pretty sure you're going to think I've lost it (and that is entirely possible). I'm sure some of you will figure out what I'm doing, but the rest will just have to wait and see 🙂  The color is Vallejo Air (pre thinned for air brushing) RLM61 Dunkelbraun aka Dark Brown (71.042). I painted the entirety of one car with it and the interiors of the other two with it (which is kinda a giveaway about car #3)

Once the FCC cars were dry, I gave them a coat of Future to create a gloss base for decals. Now they are ready for decals! 

Regards,
Bruce

Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Dave Parker
 

Oops, had a brain cramp yesterday.  It is the Vallejo Cavalry Brown that is a dead ringer for the PS Zn Cr Primer.  The Red Leather is also a cool color, but not the same.
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Bruce Smith
 

Hi Bob,

No need to yell, we can all hear you 😏

Interesting question. Photos of H25s are very hard to come by, and the fleet size rapidly shrank in the late 1950s (5233, 1949; 3127, 4/30/55; 1306, 7/31/59; 55, 7/31/64).

The lettering diagram for the H25 and H25A for shadow keystone,June 15, 1954 specifies a red car. The diagram that includes H25 and H25A for plain keystone (December 1958) specifies a black car. Did any get painted black? Excellent question. Why repaint a car that you're going to scrap next year or so?

So, if you must have a model of the H25, and you model post 1958, you can consider painting it black <shudder>, but I would suggest that a ragged, rusty, ready for scrap H25 would be more likely to be accurate.

Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: PRRPro@groups.io <PRRPro@groups.io> on behalf of Robert Flores via groups.io <bobflores99@...>
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2020 10:14 PM
To: PRRPro@groups.io <PRRPro@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [PRRPro] H25 paint shop
 
I KNOW IT WOULDN'T BE RIGHT FOR YOUR ERA,  BUT WERE ANY OF THE H25 CARS EVER PAINTEDBLACK?  1957??

BOB FLORES   COLUMBUS  OHIO  HOME OF THE PENNSY NATIONAL IN 2021

On Wednesday, April 29, 2020, 09:30:11 PM EDT, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:


Folks,

Progress in the paint shop!  I put several coats on FCC on two of the three H25's over the weekend. I was using my PolyScale mix... when I ran out. And that's it... no more... Now what to do?  I had picked up some Vallejo colors to experiment with, so I dug them out and what I was most happy with was 4 parts Red Leather (818) to 1 part Purpleheart red (amaranth)(829). I think that the amaranth might be pretty close to a 1930s FCC, but its a bit too orange for 1940s era color... I'm not 100% happy with the mix I made. It needs a touch more red, I think.

Oh, and both colors were from the Model Color line. They are so thick that they are almost impossible to get out of the Vallejo dropper bottle. I thinned about 6 parts deionized H2O to 4 parts paint. It went on great over the PolyScale and I like the look

So then, what about the 3rd car? Look at the photos, and I'm pretty sure you're going to think I've lost it (and that is entirely possible). I'm sure some of you will figure out what I'm doing, but the rest will just have to wait and see 🙂  The color is Vallejo Air (pre thinned for air brushing) RLM61 Dunkelbraun aka Dark Brown (71.042). I painted the entirety of one car with it and the interiors of the other two with it (which is kinda a giveaway about car #3)

Once the FCC cars were dry, I gave them a coat of Future to create a gloss base for decals. Now they are ready for decals! 

Regards,
Bruce

Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


diesell48
 

Hiya Bruce
Do you think that any of these H25s were rebuilt into H21E hoppers?  I think Teichmoller in his book conjectured that.  Not sure, but I did read this somewhere.  Here is a model us early 1950s guys could use - the H21E. While the H25 fleet was shrinking, the H21E fleet was growing.  So it seems plausible that this was the case.   An H21E certainly can be done from an H21A, but I have always wondered why Bowser didn't take the simple next step and do that car.  It would also be a good opportunity for them to improve the car, also.  There were literally thousands of these H21E in the early 1950s.  I am dead certain that when I do undertake do convert some H21A to H21E cars, Bowser will do the car!  I have a long history of doing modifications (or buying brass) and then having the car done commercially shortly afterwards. 

You can't build everything... we are finite beings.

Bill Millham


-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Smith <smithbf@...>
To: PRRPro@groups.io <PRRPro@groups.io>
Sent: Thu, Apr 30, 2020 11:09 am
Subject: Re: [PRRPro] H25 paint shop

Hi Bob,

No need to yell, we can all hear you 😏

Interesting question. Photos of H25s are very hard to come by, and the fleet size rapidly shrank in the late 1950s (5233, 1949; 3127, 4/30/55; 1306, 7/31/59; 55, 7/31/64).

The lettering diagram for the H25 and H25A for shadow keystone,June 15, 1954 specifies a red car. The diagram that includes H25 and H25A for plain keystone (December 1958) specifies a black car. Did any get painted black? Excellent question. Why repaint a car that you're going to scrap next year or so?

So, if you must have a model of the H25, and you model post 1958, you can consider painting it black <shudder>, but I would suggest that a ragged, rusty, ready for scrap H25 would be more likely to be accurate.

Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: PRRPro@groups.io <PRRPro@groups.io> on behalf of Robert Flores via groups.io <bobflores99@...>
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2020 10:14 PM
To: PRRPro@groups.io <PRRPro@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [PRRPro] H25 paint shop
 
I KNOW IT WOULDN'T BE RIGHT FOR YOUR ERA,  BUT WERE ANY OF THE H25 CARS EVER PAINTEDBLACK?  1957??

BOB FLORES   COLUMBUS  OHIO  HOME OF THE PENNSY NATIONAL IN 2021

On Wednesday, April 29, 2020, 09:30:11 PM EDT, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:


Folks,

Progress in the paint shop!  I put several coats on FCC on two of the three H25's over the weekend. I was using my PolyScale mix... when I ran out. And that's it... no more... Now what to do?  I had picked up some Vallejo colors to experiment with, so I dug them out and what I was most happy with was 4 parts Red Leather (818) to 1 part Purpleheart red (amaranth)(829). I think that the amaranth might be pretty close to a 1930s FCC, but its a bit too orange for 1940s era color... I'm not 100% happy with the mix I made. It needs a touch more red, I think.

Oh, and both colors were from the Model Color line. They are so thick that they are almost impossible to get out of the Vallejo dropper bottle. I thinned about 6 parts deionized H2O to 4 parts paint. It went on great over the PolyScale and I like the look

So then, what about the 3rd car? Look at the photos, and I'm pretty sure you're going to think I've lost it (and that is entirely possible). I'm sure some of you will figure out what I'm doing, but the rest will just have to wait and see 🙂  The color is Vallejo Air (pre thinned for air brushing) RLM61 Dunkelbraun aka Dark Brown (71.042). I painted the entirety of one car with it and the interiors of the other two with it (which is kinda a giveaway about car #3)

Once the FCC cars were dry, I gave them a coat of Future to create a gloss base for decals. Now they are ready for decals! 

Regards,
Bruce

Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Bruce Smith
 

Bill,

I agree with the idea that H25s became H21Es, and yeah, y'all could use an H21E. Too modern for me!

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, Al


From: PRRPro@groups.io <PRRPro@groups.io> on behalf of diesell48 via groups.io <diesell48@...>
Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2020 10:37 AM
To: PRRPro@groups.io <PRRPro@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [PRRPro] H25 paint shop
 
Hiya Bruce
Do you think that any of these H25s were rebuilt into H21E hoppers?  I think Teichmoller in his book conjectured that.  Not sure, but I did read this somewhere.  Here is a model us early 1950s guys could use - the H21E. While the H25 fleet was shrinking, the H21E fleet was growing.  So it seems plausible that this was the case.   An H21E certainly can be done from an H21A, but I have always wondered why Bowser didn't take the simple next step and do that car.  It would also be a good opportunity for them to improve the car, also.  There were literally thousands of these H21E in the early 1950s.  I am dead certain that when I do undertake do convert some H21A to H21E cars, Bowser will do the car!  I have a long history of doing modifications (or buying brass) and then having the car done commercially shortly afterwards. 

You can't build everything... we are finite beings.

Bill Millham


-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Smith <smithbf@...>
To: PRRPro@groups.io <PRRPro@groups.io>
Sent: Thu, Apr 30, 2020 11:09 am
Subject: Re: [PRRPro] H25 paint shop

Hi Bob,

No need to yell, we can all hear you 😏

Interesting question. Photos of H25s are very hard to come by, and the fleet size rapidly shrank in the late 1950s (5233, 1949; 3127, 4/30/55; 1306, 7/31/59; 55, 7/31/64).

The lettering diagram for the H25 and H25A for shadow keystone,June 15, 1954 specifies a red car. The diagram that includes H25 and H25A for plain keystone (December 1958) specifies a black car. Did any get painted black? Excellent question. Why repaint a car that you're going to scrap next year or so?

So, if you must have a model of the H25, and you model post 1958, you can consider painting it black <shudder>, but I would suggest that a ragged, rusty, ready for scrap H25 would be more likely to be accurate.

Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: PRRPro@groups.io <PRRPro@groups.io> on behalf of Robert Flores via groups.io <bobflores99@...>
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2020 10:14 PM
To: PRRPro@groups.io <PRRPro@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [PRRPro] H25 paint shop
 
I KNOW IT WOULDN'T BE RIGHT FOR YOUR ERA,  BUT WERE ANY OF THE H25 CARS EVER PAINTEDBLACK?  1957??

BOB FLORES   COLUMBUS  OHIO  HOME OF THE PENNSY NATIONAL IN 2021

On Wednesday, April 29, 2020, 09:30:11 PM EDT, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:


Folks,

Progress in the paint shop!  I put several coats on FCC on two of the three H25's over the weekend. I was using my PolyScale mix... when I ran out. And that's it... no more... Now what to do?  I had picked up some Vallejo colors to experiment with, so I dug them out and what I was most happy with was 4 parts Red Leather (818) to 1 part Purpleheart red (amaranth)(829). I think that the amaranth might be pretty close to a 1930s FCC, but its a bit too orange for 1940s era color... I'm not 100% happy with the mix I made. It needs a touch more red, I think.

Oh, and both colors were from the Model Color line. They are so thick that they are almost impossible to get out of the Vallejo dropper bottle. I thinned about 6 parts deionized H2O to 4 parts paint. It went on great over the PolyScale and I like the look

So then, what about the 3rd car? Look at the photos, and I'm pretty sure you're going to think I've lost it (and that is entirely possible). I'm sure some of you will figure out what I'm doing, but the rest will just have to wait and see 🙂  The color is Vallejo Air (pre thinned for air brushing) RLM61 Dunkelbraun aka Dark Brown (71.042). I painted the entirety of one car with it and the interiors of the other two with it (which is kinda a giveaway about car #3)

Once the FCC cars were dry, I gave them a coat of Future to create a gloss base for decals. Now they are ready for decals! 

Regards,
Bruce

Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Mark Jurasinski
 

Great work Bruce!
My hat is off to anyone who takes on a Funaro & Camerlengo kit…and completes it. Seems that many are started, but few are finished.

Funny we still don’t have a definitive model paint (or paints) for FCC. I’ve been using a bottle of Badger 16-14 Light Tuscan Oxide Red for 20s to 30s era cars. It’s close, but maybe not enough orange tint to it. Also they don’t make the paint anymore, I bought my bottle “new old stock” from an eBay seller a while ago.  Guess I’ll have to give your Vallejo mixture a try.

Thanks for the informative posts and keep up the great modeling work.


Mark Jurasinski

Reading, PA


Bruce Smith
 

Folks,

I've made more paint shop progress on the H25s.

The two that got FCC, are now decaled, including a few chalk marks. I've attached a photo from my cell phone showing my dealing setup. Both were given a good coat of Future for a gloss coat. I use distilled water to soak the decals. I place them on the model in a small pool of  MicroSet (bleu) and then wick off the extra with a paper towel. Then they get an application of MecroSol (red), or if they aren't settling down, some Solvaset. Once they are well settled (2-3 application of MicrosSol or Salvaset, no bubbles, no "silvering") I coated them with Model Master flat. The cars are now ready for weathering. 169894 has a reweigh of 5-44 which will also represent it's repaint date, so it will get very little weathering for my 6-44 date. 170697 will represent a much more weathered car, with a reweigh of 4-43, but a 5+ year old paint job.

BTW, if you're wondering how I selected numbers, there were two major series of H25s. The 1698635-172921 series had 3,200 cars and the 729801-730894 had a little over 1,000 cars. So, if I need 4 H25s in my fleet, it makes sense to have 3 from the 1st series and 1 from the latter series (note that there are several other smaller series), and since my kitbash H25 from the H21 project is in the second series, all three of these cars should be from the 1st series. So, car number 3 will be 171xxx or 172xxx. It will have a current reweigh, but will represent 10+ year old paint, and a serious case of paint failure. 

This 3rd car has gone through several steps now. These are:
1) An overall coat of Vallejo Air RLM61 Dunkelbraun aka Dark Brown (71.042) - refer back to pictures from my last post, or see the interior of the above 2 cars. 
2) Sponge painted (tear a sponge, use it to dab on paint) Vallejo Air  70.605 German red brown - this represents red lead primer
3) Sponge painted Vallejo Air 71.080, rust
4) Sponge painted Vallejo Air 71.129, Light rust
5) Sponge painted Vallejo Air 71.130, Orange rust

Note, all of these paints, along with clear coat and chipping fluid come from the Vallejo 71.186 Rust and Chipping Effects kit. The combination of multiple colors, dabbed on, creates a very textured look. 

In the next installment, it's time for the FCC and chipping. I'm planning on using both chipping fluid and salt, on different panels. We'll see what happens! First, time to let it dry, clear coat and then I'll move on.

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, Al


Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi Bruce,
 
This looks intriguing!! I can’t wait to see how this weathering effect will look when it is done. Thanks very much for the images and for the excellent documentation of your technique you are sharing with us all
 
Claus Schlund
 
 
 
 
 

From: Bruce Smith
Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2020 6:10 PM
To: PRRPro@groups.io
Subject: Re: [PRRPro] H25 paint shop
 
Folks,
 
I've made more paint shop progress on the H25s.
 
The two that got FCC, are now decaled, including a few chalk marks. I've attached a photo from my cell phone showing my dealing setup. Both were given a good coat of Future for a gloss coat. I use distilled water to soak the decals. I place them on the model in a small pool of  MicroSet (bleu) and then wick off the extra with a paper towel. Then they get an application of MecroSol (red), or if they aren't settling down, some Solvaset. Once they are well settled (2-3 application of MicrosSol or Salvaset, no bubbles, no "silvering") I coated them with Model Master flat. The cars are now ready for weathering. 169894 has a reweigh of 5-44 which will also represent it's repaint date, so it will get very little weathering for my 6-44 date. 170697 will represent a much more weathered car, with a reweigh of 4-43, but a 5+ year old paint job.
 
BTW, if you're wondering how I selected numbers, there were two major series of H25s. The 1698635-172921 series had 3,200 cars and the 729801-730894 had a little over 1,000 cars. So, if I need 4 H25s in my fleet, it makes sense to have 3 from the 1st series and 1 from the latter series (note that there are several other smaller series), and since my kitbash H25 from the H21 project is in the second series, all three of these cars should be from the 1st series. So, car number 3 will be 171xxx or 172xxx. It will have a current reweigh, but will represent 10+ year old paint, and a serious case of paint failure.

This 3rd car has gone through several steps now. These are:
1) An overall coat of Vallejo Air RLM61 Dunkelbraun aka Dark Brown (71.042) - refer back to pictures from my last post, or see the interior of the above 2 cars.
2) Sponge painted (tear a sponge, use it to dab on paint) Vallejo Air  70.605 German red brown - this represents red lead primer
3) Sponge painted Vallejo Air 71.080, rust
4) Sponge painted Vallejo Air 71.129, Light rust
5) Sponge painted Vallejo Air 71.130, Orange rust

Note, all of these paints, along with clear coat and chipping fluid come from the Vallejo 71.186 Rust and Chipping Effects kit. The combination of multiple colors, dabbed on, creates a very textured look.

In the next installment, it's time for the FCC and chipping. I'm planning on using both chipping fluid and salt, on different panels. We'll see what happens! First, time to let it dry, clear coat and then I'll move on.

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, Al


O Fenton Wells
 

Looks great Bruce. Good finish
Fenton

On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 6:10 PM Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:
Folks,

I've made more paint shop progress on the H25s.

The two that got FCC, are now decaled, including a few chalk marks. I've attached a photo from my cell phone showing my dealing setup. Both were given a good coat of Future for a gloss coat. I use distilled water to soak the decals. I place them on the model in a small pool of  MicroSet (bleu) and then wick off the extra with a paper towel. Then they get an application of MecroSol (red), or if they aren't settling down, some Solvaset. Once they are well settled (2-3 application of MicrosSol or Salvaset, no bubbles, no "silvering") I coated them with Model Master flat. The cars are now ready for weathering. 169894 has a reweigh of 5-44 which will also represent it's repaint date, so it will get very little weathering for my 6-44 date. 170697 will represent a much more weathered car, with a reweigh of 4-43, but a 5+ year old paint job.

BTW, if you're wondering how I selected numbers, there were two major series of H25s. The 1698635-172921 series had 3,200 cars and the 729801-730894 had a little over 1,000 cars. So, if I need 4 H25s in my fleet, it makes sense to have 3 from the 1st series and 1 from the latter series (note that there are several other smaller series), and since my kitbash H25 from the H21 project is in the second series, all three of these cars should be from the 1st series. So, car number 3 will be 171xxx or 172xxx. It will have a current reweigh, but will represent 10+ year old paint, and a serious case of paint failure. 

This 3rd car has gone through several steps now. These are:
1) An overall coat of Vallejo Air RLM61 Dunkelbraun aka Dark Brown (71.042) - refer back to pictures from my last post, or see the interior of the above 2 cars. 
2) Sponge painted (tear a sponge, use it to dab on paint) Vallejo Air  70.605 German red brown - this represents red lead primer
3) Sponge painted Vallejo Air 71.080, rust
4) Sponge painted Vallejo Air 71.129, Light rust
5) Sponge painted Vallejo Air 71.130, Orange rust

Note, all of these paints, along with clear coat and chipping fluid come from the Vallejo 71.186 Rust and Chipping Effects kit. The combination of multiple colors, dabbed on, creates a very textured look. 

In the next installment, it's time for the FCC and chipping. I'm planning on using both chipping fluid and salt, on different panels. We'll see what happens! First, time to let it dry, clear coat and then I'll move on.

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, Al



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Bruce Smith
 

Claus,

I'm pleased so far, but this is the first time I've tried this!  I've been reading TONS of articles in the military modeling press on this type of approach.. so we'll see! The worst that can happen is that I strip it and start over 😉

Regards,
Bruce



From: PRRPro@groups.io <PRRPro@groups.io> on behalf of Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;) <claus@...>
Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2020 5:26 PM
To: PRRPro@groups.io <PRRPro@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [PRRPro] H25 paint shop
 
Hi Bruce,
 
This looks intriguing!! I can’t wait to see how this weathering effect will look when it is done. Thanks very much for the images and for the excellent documentation of your technique you are sharing with us all
 
Claus Schlund
 
 
 
 
 
From: Bruce Smith
Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2020 6:10 PM
To: PRRPro@groups.io
Subject: Re: [PRRPro] H25 paint shop
 
Folks,
 
I've made more paint shop progress on the H25s.
 
The two that got FCC, are now decaled, including a few chalk marks. I've attached a photo from my cell phone showing my dealing setup. Both were given a good coat of Future for a gloss coat. I use distilled water to soak the decals. I place them on the model in a small pool of  MicroSet (bleu) and then wick off the extra with a paper towel. Then they get an application of MecroSol (red), or if they aren't settling down, some Solvaset. Once they are well settled (2-3 application of MicrosSol or Salvaset, no bubbles, no "silvering") I coated them with Model Master flat. The cars are now ready for weathering. 169894 has a reweigh of 5-44 which will also represent it's repaint date, so it will get very little weathering for my 6-44 date. 170697 will represent a much more weathered car, with a reweigh of 4-43, but a 5+ year old paint job.
 
BTW, if you're wondering how I selected numbers, there were two major series of H25s. The 1698635-172921 series had 3,200 cars and the 729801-730894 had a little over 1,000 cars. So, if I need 4 H25s in my fleet, it makes sense to have 3 from the 1st series and 1 from the latter series (note that there are several other smaller series), and since my kitbash H25 from the H21 project is in the second series, all three of these cars should be from the 1st series. So, car number 3 will be 171xxx or 172xxx. It will have a current reweigh, but will represent 10+ year old paint, and a serious case of paint failure.

This 3rd car has gone through several steps now. These are:
1) An overall coat of Vallejo Air RLM61 Dunkelbraun aka Dark Brown (71.042) - refer back to pictures from my last post, or see the interior of the above 2 cars.
2) Sponge painted (tear a sponge, use it to dab on paint) Vallejo Air  70.605 German red brown - this represents red lead primer
3) Sponge painted Vallejo Air 71.080, rust
4) Sponge painted Vallejo Air 71.129, Light rust
5) Sponge painted Vallejo Air 71.130, Orange rust

Note, all of these paints, along with clear coat and chipping fluid come from the Vallejo 71.186 Rust and Chipping Effects kit. The combination of multiple colors, dabbed on, creates a very textured look.

In the next installment, it's time for the FCC and chipping. I'm planning on using both chipping fluid and salt, on different panels. We'll see what happens! First, time to let it dry, clear coat and then I'll move on.

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, Al


Brian Carlson
 

I love that 3rd car!

Brian J. Carlson 

On May 3, 2020, at 7:37 PM, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:


Claus,

I'm pleased so far, but this is the first time I've tried this!  I've been reading TONS of articles in the military modeling press on this type of approach.. so we'll see! The worst that can happen is that I strip it and start over 😉

Regards,
Bruce



From: PRRPro@groups.io <PRRPro@groups.io> on behalf of Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;) <claus@...>
Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2020 5:26 PM
To: PRRPro@groups.io <PRRPro@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [PRRPro] H25 paint shop
 
Hi Bruce,
 
This looks intriguing!! I can’t wait to see how this weathering effect will look when it is done. Thanks very much for the images and for the excellent documentation of your technique you are sharing with us all
 
Claus Schlund
 
 
 
 
 
From: Bruce Smith
Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2020 6:10 PM
To: PRRPro@groups.io
Subject: Re: [PRRPro] H25 paint shop
 
Folks,
 
I've made more paint shop progress on the H25s.
 
The two that got FCC, are now decaled, including a few chalk marks. I've attached a photo from my cell phone showing my dealing setup. Both were given a good coat of Future for a gloss coat. I use distilled water to soak the decals. I place them on the model in a small pool of  MicroSet (bleu) and then wick off the extra with a paper towel. Then they get an application of MecroSol (red), or if they aren't settling down, some Solvaset. Once they are well settled (2-3 application of MicrosSol or Salvaset, no bubbles, no "silvering") I coated them with Model Master flat. The cars are now ready for weathering. 169894 has a reweigh of 5-44 which will also represent it's repaint date, so it will get very little weathering for my 6-44 date. 170697 will represent a much more weathered car, with a reweigh of 4-43, but a 5+ year old paint job.
 
BTW, if you're wondering how I selected numbers, there were two major series of H25s. The 1698635-172921 series had 3,200 cars and the 729801-730894 had a little over 1,000 cars. So, if I need 4 H25s in my fleet, it makes sense to have 3 from the 1st series and 1 from the latter series (note that there are several other smaller series), and since my kitbash H25 from the H21 project is in the second series, all three of these cars should be from the 1st series. So, car number 3 will be 171xxx or 172xxx. It will have a current reweigh, but will represent 10+ year old paint, and a serious case of paint failure.

This 3rd car has gone through several steps now. These are:
1) An overall coat of Vallejo Air RLM61 Dunkelbraun aka Dark Brown (71.042) - refer back to pictures from my last post, or see the interior of the above 2 cars.
2) Sponge painted (tear a sponge, use it to dab on paint) Vallejo Air  70.605 German red brown - this represents red lead primer
3) Sponge painted Vallejo Air 71.080, rust
4) Sponge painted Vallejo Air 71.129, Light rust
5) Sponge painted Vallejo Air 71.130, Orange rust

Note, all of these paints, along with clear coat and chipping fluid come from the Vallejo 71.186 Rust and Chipping Effects kit. The combination of multiple colors, dabbed on, creates a very textured look.

In the next installment, it's time for the FCC and chipping. I'm planning on using both chipping fluid and salt, on different panels. We'll see what happens! First, time to let it dry, clear coat and then I'll move on.

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, Al


Robert Allan
 

Your approach on the heavy weathering is to weather first, decal later?

I am enjoying your "how to do it" post. Great content.

Bob Allan
Omaha


Bruce Smith
 

Bob,

This is an experiment. We'll see. I will say that this is a commonly used approach among the military modelers and some of their stuff is amazing. FWIW, doing it this way, the layers are in a more correct order, as the body coat will be above the rust and, in some cases, leaves a tiny edge, just as in real life.

The decals present some issues. I will take 3 approaches, all on the same model. 
1) Fail the paint on a panel without lettering (not all panels fail at the same time)
2) Use fine sandpaper to thin decals where they will be placed over weathering, although sometimes, lettering is remarkably clear over failed paint. Examination of photos indicates that stencil paste often protected the paint underneath, even while the paint immediately adjacent was a totally failed, or that critical information, such as car #, was restenciled over the rust.
3) Paint patches for some lettering. For example, the reweigh will go on fresh paint, with I will likely mask and repaint.

It is also highly likely that I will add more weathering once the car is lettered. That will include vertical rust streaks from the bright rust, coal dust, possibly "chalking" lettering, washes over the FCC of grime, and overspray of body or rust colors over the decals to "fade" them.

Based on some reading last night, I'll probably spray the car with Future at lunch, and then let it dry for a few days. Chipping solutions (including hairspray) work by retarding paint harding, and so, to keep the paint UNDER that intact, I want it to be completely dry.

Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: PRRPro@groups.io <PRRPro@groups.io> on behalf of Robert Allan via groups.io <robert.allan32@...>
Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 10:07 AM
To: prrpro@groups.io <prrpro@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [PRRPro] H25 paint shop
 
Your approach on the heavy weathering is to weather first, decal later?

I am enjoying your "how to do it" post. Great content.

Bob Allan
Omaha


Rod Clifford
 

Bruce,
To add to Bob’s email, thank you for keeping us informed of the processes in the H25 build(s).   Rod Clifford




On May 4, 2020, at 10:26 AM, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:

Bob,

This is an experiment. We'll see. I will say that this is a commonly used approach among the military modelers and some of their stuff is amazing. FWIW, doing it this way, the layers are in a more correct order, as the body coat will be above the rust and, in some cases, leaves a tiny edge, just as in real life.

The decals present some issues. I will take 3 approaches, all on the same model. 
1) Fail the paint on a panel without lettering (not all panels fail at the same time)
2) Use fine sandpaper to thin decals where they will be placed over weathering, although sometimes, lettering is remarkably clear over failed paint. Examination of photos indicates that stencil paste often protected the paint underneath, even while the paint immediately adjacent was a totally failed, or that critical information, such as car #, was restenciled over the rust.
3) Paint patches for some lettering. For example, the reweigh will go on fresh paint, with I will likely mask and repaint.

It is also highly likely that I will add more weathering once the car is lettered. That will include vertical rust streaks from the bright rust, coal dust, possibly "chalking" lettering, washes over the FCC of grime, and overspray of body or rust colors over the decals to "fade" them.

Based on some reading last night, I'll probably spray the car with Future at lunch, and then let it dry for a few days. Chipping solutions (including hairspray) work by retarding paint harding, and so, to keep the paint UNDER that intact, I want it to be completely dry.

Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: PRRPro@groups.io <PRRPro@groups.io> on behalf of Robert Allan via groups.io<robert.allan32@...>
Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 10:07 AM
To: prrpro@groups.io <prrpro@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [PRRPro] H25 paint shop
 
Your approach on the heavy weathering is to weather first, decal later? 

I am enjoying your "how to do it" post. Great content.

Bob Allan
Omaha


Bruce Smith
 

More progress on weathering my H25s...

170697 - overspray of FCC to "fade" decals. You'll note that the reweigh and repack stencils are covered to keep them from being faded as well. The underbody got a spray of burnt umber.

"Rust bucket" - I clear coated with Future and let that dry, for several days. I then sprayed on Vallejo Chipping fluid. Be careful as this is pretty thick. When that was thoroughly dry, I sprayed FCC. I was concerned as a YouTube video said NEVER to use water thinned paint over chipping fluid, and you guessed it, I had thinned the FCC with water. The problem is that the water activates the chipping fluid, but I had no problem. About an hour after spraying the FCC, I started removing the FCC over the areas sprayed with chipping fluid with water and a still brush. As time went on, I also ended up using a PBL fiberglass fiber "scratcher" which is used to distress paint. I decided to get almost all of the FCC off the center of the panels to expose the rust. You can also chip patches and I will do that on another car. Once the car was dry, I again clear coated it with future. 

More weathering to come!
Regards,
Bruce 
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL



Dave Parker
 

YouTube strikes again.  But think about it:  Vallejo only sells water-based acrylics, so wouldn't their chipping medium likely be compatible with such paints?   And if not water, what would you thin with?  Does acrylic paint thinner really contain much of anything besides water?  I'd love to see an analysis.

I've only used the chipping medium on a couple of projects, and I have relied solely on Vallejo's instructions.
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Stuart Thayer
 

Dave,

I would highly recommend that you do not use regular tap water out of your faucet to thin acrylics.  Instead get yourself a gallon jug of distilled water and keep it at the paint booth.  I get my distilled water at the grocery store for less then $1.

Stuart Thayer 


On May 15, 2020, at 12:55 AM, Dave Parker via groups.io <spottab@...> wrote:

YouTube strikes again.  But think about it:  Vallejo only sells water-based acrylics, so wouldn't their chipping medium likely be compatible with such paints?   And if not water, what would you thin with?  Does acrylic paint thinner really contain much of anything besides water?  I'd love to see an analysis.

I've only used the chipping medium on a couple of projects, and I have relied solely on Vallejo's instructions.
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA