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Re: HO Scale 3D5P3 Truck?
Dave's Gmail
Guys,
I have attached a photo of direct comparison of the 3CP1 trucks in the Keystone article with the Labelle model trucks. Dave Wilson
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Re: HO Scale 3D5P3 Truck?
Rich C
Chuck, I should have paid better attention to your post. Thanks, Rich Christie
On Thursday, January 21, 2021, 08:56:49 PM CST, Chuck Heuer <hiker120@...> wrote:
The 618 appears to be missing the outer brake arms/shoes at either end, as I had mentioned. Chuck
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Re: HO Scale 3D5P3 Truck?
Chuck Heuer
The 618 appears to be missing the outer brake arms/shoes at either end, as I had mentioned.
Chuck
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Re: HO Scale 3D5P3 Truck?
Rich C
Chuck and group, I was just at the LaBelle site. They actually have two flavors of the 3C-P1 trucks, #612 & #618. Wonder what the difference is? Rich Christie
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Re: HO Scale 3D5P3 Truck?
(edited to revise and include some additional information on 3D5P3, 3D5P5 and 3C-P2 truck classes)
I have done some more work on this "puzzle" of RPO trucks and will summarize, focusing on the actionable information as relates to the present project: First, BCW tells us that LaBelle (Woodworking) has acquired all the former BCW white metal castings. I had previously visited their site and looked under the "HO BCW cast parts" - no trucks. I recently looked again and rooting around on their website discovered that in fact they do appear to have these trucks - under their own numbers listed under the "HO trucks" heading. Not only do they have what I believe was BCW #123 as HO-609, described as a PRR 3D5P2 (like PSC with a single bolster bearing per side), They also have an HO-612 which adds the missing parts to create a very reasonable representation of a 3C-P1 (as discussed in TKM #21, recently mentioned up thread). This item appears very applicable to this project! (note LaBelle also offers versions of both these with the outside bakes missing - not prototypical but I can only guess for model fit/clearance reasons). Second, both the PSC (brass) and LaBelle (white metal) "3D5P2" trucks are foobies. The truck with classification in fact is missing the signature lower bar tied the 3 journals together, but it has a completely different, much heavier design of drop equalizers. While it is also a built-up frame like the 3C-P1, the drawings of 3D5P2 show a double bolster design. As noted previously, there is a photo in the truck notebook showing a single bearing version captioned as this type. This suggests to me that some may have been converted later in life. The notebook (undated) certainly is of a later date (at least post 1940) than the truck drawings and the early truck list tracings. The notebook also appears to be a working shop document, probably prepared locally somewhere, not an official engineering document. The notebook also indicates substantially broader application of various of the truck classes across car classes than is specified in even the later truck list tracings - shops did what they needed to do to keep cars on the road... I have found no models even close to the documentation of the 3D5P2 although the 2 noted here could perhaps be modified, reworking the drop equalizers. The 3D5P3 is a cast frame version of this truck with the heavy drop equalizers and a single outside bolster bearing. It is also not represented by any models I am aware of. Third, there are 3 different classes of trucks used on RPOs with cast frames, straight across equalizers, single bolster bearings and roller bearings on the axles, these are pretty closely represented by either the Walthers or Bachmann 3D-P1 trucks with roller bearings (the other 2 classes were the 3D-P2 and 3D7P2). The the journal ("friction") bearing form of 3D-P1, is also are reasonably close, other than having the wrong type of axle bearings. I have not located any definitive photos or drawings for the 3D5P5, however the truck classification tracings show it as a cast frame with standard journal bearings and referencing the same arrangement tracing as the 3D7P2 so it was likely similar in appearance. The are called out as being used only on the BM70l class RPO and the PBM70a. Modeling a relatively late date (1952-3), I think I'm going to maintain my plan to use a set of the Walthers trucks I already have on my BM70ka. I will however, be most interested to hear a review of the LaBelle 3C-P1 if anyone gets adventurous enough to try one out. Hope this helps, Chuck Heuer PRRTHS 8979
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Re: X23 progress
Eric Hansmann
Thanks, Bruce!
One of the difficult aspects of modeling 1926 is finding decent freight car photos from the 1920-1927 years. The attached two images are all I have found so far. They inspired and influenced my decal and weathering work on the X23. PRR 538283 might be wearing most of the original paint but not the lettering. Note this car still has the data plaques on the left end of the car side but these are blank. The weigh data follows the guidelines from 1918.
In the other image, PRR 562630 has a 1928 weigh date and data that follows the 1927 guidelines with LT WT and LD LMT stencils. The dimensional data can be seen on the left end of the car side here. The original door has been replaced, too.
Without additional photos to guide my work, I decided to place the dimensional data similar to that in the later image and the rest of the lettering like that in the earlier image. I hope more prototype images from the early 1920 show up by the time I build another.
Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN
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Re: X23 progress
Eric Hansmann
Nelson,
I think you are correct in your assumption on the running board weathering differently. Bill Welch pointed this out on his models when I first met him in 2004. I often hit parts of the running board with light or dark grey to convey a replacement board. Sometimes even a new wood color. Acrylic paint is applied with a micro brush before the flat coat is sprayed onto the model. After that point, color pencils and/or Pan Pastels can be applied to individual boards for additional variations.
I model Pittsburgh in 1926, which wasn't a clean air city. Soot is a major weathering layer for most of my models, especially on the roofs. After scrubbing the Pan Pastel onto the model for soot, I sometimes apply Pan Pastel raw umber to individual roof elements to vary the tone. The running boards are an easy target.
Highlighting edges with the Prismacolor 10% cool grey is another layer that can bring out some detail definition.
The more you experiment with weathering media and techniques, the more you learn and define your processes.
Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN
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Re: X23 progress
Eric,
Very nice! That's a beat up car, so close to a 10-year old paint job.
Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
From: PRRPro@groups.io <PRRPro@groups.io> on behalf of Eric Hansmann <eric@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2021 9:47 AM To: PRRPro@groups.io <PRRPro@groups.io> Subject: [PRRPro] X23 progress I started a Westerfield HO scale X23 boxcar kit in November 2015. This morning I snapped photos of the almost completed model. It still needs Carmer uncoupling hardware. The model was painted with Vallejo amaranth red with maybe a drop or two of scarlet mixed into the paint cup. The lettering represents a post-WW1 appearance but before the revised AAR 1927 lettering guidelines for the weigh data presentation. I model late 1926.
I applied a pinwash of Vallejo acrylic burnt umber to the metal components as they always seem to weather differently from the wood. Prismacolor warm and cool grey pencils were used as the initial weathering layer on the sheathing. It was followed with Pan Pastel raw umber and raw umber tint applied sparingly with a micro brush and scrubbed onto the sheathing. Extra raw umber was applied to the doors for that rough Pennsy look. Pan Pastel neutral grey extra dark was scrubbed onto the roof and daubed along upper elements of the car sides and ends.
A Prismacolor 10% cool grey pencil was used to highlight edges and add chalk marks. Route cards and placards were added from my own artwork. The car rides on Bowser arch bar trucks with Intermountain semi-scale wheelsets. Accurail Proto:HO scale couplers and Hi-Tech air hoses are installed.
The next time I build one of these, the ladders will be installed after weathering. And I really hope those ladders will be etched metal details, too.
Eric Hansmann Murfreesboro, TN
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Re: X23 progress
Nelson Moyer
I’ve been following the freight car fading threads on other groups, and I’ve noticed a pattern where the running boards are treated the same as the sides or roof. I would think the running board would weather differently as a result of the foot traffic, and the fact that they are wood should differentiate it from the roof, which is galvanized. I haven’t tried any of the fading techniques other than mixing six progressively lighter shades of Tru Color CB&Q Freight Car Red to paint 24 stock cars. That’s as far as I’ve gotten, but I’ll try PanPastels and pencils for the details someday.
Nelson Moyer
From: PRRPro@groups.io [mailto:PRRPro@groups.io] On Behalf Of
Eric Hansmann
Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2021 9:48 AM To: PRRPro@groups.io Subject: [PRRPro] X23 progress
I started a Westerfield HO scale X23 boxcar kit in November 2015. This morning I snapped photos of the almost completed model. It still needs Carmer uncoupling hardware. The model was painted with Vallejo amaranth red with maybe a drop or two of scarlet mixed into the paint cup. The lettering represents a post-WW1 appearance but before the revised AAR 1927 lettering guidelines for the weigh data presentation. I model late 1926.
I applied a pinwash of Vallejo acrylic burnt umber to the metal components as they always seem to weather differently from the wood. Prismacolor warm and cool grey pencils were used as the initial weathering layer on the sheathing. It was followed with Pan Pastel raw umber and raw umber tint applied sparingly with a micro brush and scrubbed onto the sheathing. Extra raw umber was applied to the doors for that rough Pennsy look. Pan Pastel neutral grey extra dark was scrubbed onto the roof and daubed along upper elements of the car sides and ends.
A Prismacolor 10% cool grey pencil was used to highlight edges and add chalk marks. Route cards and placards were added from my own artwork. The car rides on Bowser arch bar trucks with Intermountain semi-scale wheelsets. Accurail Proto:HO scale couplers and Hi-Tech air hoses are installed.
The next time I build one of these, the ladders will be installed after weathering. And I really hope those ladders will be etched metal details, too.
Eric Hansmann Murfreesboro, TN
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X23 progress
Eric Hansmann
I started a Westerfield HO scale X23 boxcar kit in November 2015. This morning I snapped photos of the almost completed model. It still needs Carmer uncoupling hardware. The model was painted with Vallejo amaranth red with maybe a drop or two of scarlet mixed into the paint cup. The lettering represents a post-WW1 appearance but before the revised AAR 1927 lettering guidelines for the weigh data presentation. I model late 1926.
I applied a pinwash of Vallejo acrylic burnt umber to the metal components as they always seem to weather differently from the wood. Prismacolor warm and cool grey pencils were used as the initial weathering layer on the sheathing. It was followed with Pan Pastel raw umber and raw umber tint applied sparingly with a micro brush and scrubbed onto the sheathing. Extra raw umber was applied to the doors for that rough Pennsy look. Pan Pastel neutral grey extra dark was scrubbed onto the roof and daubed along upper elements of the car sides and ends.
A Prismacolor 10% cool grey pencil was used to highlight edges and add chalk marks. Route cards and placards were added from my own artwork. The car rides on Bowser arch bar trucks with Intermountain semi-scale wheelsets. Accurail Proto:HO scale couplers and Hi-Tech air hoses are installed.
The next time I build one of these, the ladders will be installed after weathering. And I really hope those ladders will be etched metal details, too.
Eric Hansmann Murfreesboro, TN
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Re: M70B
Rich C
Coming along fine, Dave. I will follow your advice on the drip strips and trucks (when I get an M70B). On my end, for my M70, still waiting for my AHM/Rivarossi RPO for the donor roof. I plan on bashing the trucks for that one to emulate the early 3C-P1 from a Bethlehem Car Works 3D-5P2. TKM #21 had a good article by George Pierson on doing those. The other part of the AHM/Rivarossi RPO is a start to an M70A, will need 2 more bodies or find a suitable 4th window for one side. Claus Schlund had a great kitbash article in TKM 78 for his N M70A. I also have a BM70M made by NKP coming. All said, I want at least one complete for the year, lol! I have many other projects going on not just Pennsy. Rich Christie
On Tuesday, January 19, 2021, 05:31:27 PM CST, Dave's Gmail <davidchriswilson@...> wrote:
Group, I did a little work on my M70B. First, I realized that my bolsters were off a little, so I removed them, and shifted them a bit towards the ends of the car. Next, I cut some styrene tubing to help center the Walthers RPO trucks. I used two washers to keep them on the car. Last, I made the gutters above the doors as per Bob Hess’ suggestion. I drilled two holes in the roof, and I bent 0.015” wire in a slight arch. I then bent two legs on the ends and secured them to the roof with superglue. Dave Wilson
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Re: M70B
William Dale
Mr. Wilson, As I have been and like to follow along with these builds, maybe this can help with future use of Walthers trucks. I’m currently working on my fleet of Reading coaches from Bethlehem Car Works and opted for the Walthers trucks as well. The sell a shouldered bushing separately, and I used these screws purchased from Lowe’s to attach to the frame and hold the truck in place. As always, I appreciate the work you have done to date. William Dale
On Tue, Jan 19, 2021 at 6:31 PM Dave's Gmail <davidchriswilson@...> wrote: Group, I did a little work on my M70B. First, I realized that my bolsters were off a little, so I removed them, and shifted them a bit towards the ends of the car.
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M70B
Dave's Gmail
Group, I did a little work on my M70B. First, I realized that my bolsters were off a little, so I removed them, and shifted them a bit towards the ends of the car.
Next, I cut some styrene tubing to help center the Walthers RPO trucks. I used two washers to keep them on the car. Last, I made the gutters above the doors as per Bob Hess’ suggestion. I drilled two holes in the roof, and I bent 0.015” wire in a slight arch. I then bent two legs on the ends and secured them to the roof with superglue. Dave Wilson
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locked
Re: TOFC follow-up F39
Kris, folks,
The F39 is off topic for PRRPro. I have deleted the original post.
Regards,
Bruce Smith, listmeister
From: PRRPro@groups.io <PRRPro@groups.io> on behalf of Kris Kollar <c4vette-prr@...>
Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2021 6:12 PM To: PRRPro@groups.io <PRRPro@groups.io> Subject: Re: [PRRPro] TOFC follow-up F39 Dan
Nice work. What did you use for the chain binders? I have had a hard time finding a suitable stand in. Thanks.
Kris Kollar
On Jan 17, 2021, at 7:07 PM, Daniel A. Mitchell <danmitch@...> wrote:
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locked
Re: TOFC follow-up F39
Kris Kollar
Dan
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Nice work. What did you use for the chain binders? I have had a hard time finding a suitable stand in. Thanks. Kris Kollar
On Jan 17, 2021, at 7:07 PM, Daniel A. Mitchell <danmitch@...> wrote:
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Re: PRR F30D
To get the old-style support jacks …
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
I turned the barrels fron some brass rod using a little Unimat lathe, and added a small square of styrene for the base Dan Mitchell ==========.
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Re: Interlocking Towers B&P and Union Tunnel in Baltimore
Brian McDevitt
Volume 31 No 4 of the Keystone (Winter 1998) contains an article covering both towers which includes one set of drawings detailing the variations between the individual towers. According to the drawings the bases of both towers measure 38' long by 21' wide. The steps on the ends are 8' wide. The protruding section of the operating floor measures 18' long with an overhang of 4'. The towers' roofs both overhang by 4' all round. No vertical dimensions are given.
There is a damaged copy for sale on eBay at the moment. Hope this is of some use. Best wishes Brian McDevitt
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Re: PRR F30D
Dave's Gmail
Great looking car! I'm sure it will fit in well with the Rapido cars. Dave Wilson
On Sun, Jan 17, 2021 at 9:35 AM Daniel A. Mitchell <danmitch@...> wrote:
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David C. Wilson nanos gigantum humeris insidentes PRRT&HS 9088 (H6sb)
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Re: PRR F30D
Aaron Heaney
Dan What did you use for the support jacks under the nose of the trailer? Great looking car by the way. Aaron Heaney Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
-------- Original message -------- From: "Daniel A. Mitchell" <danmitch@...> Date: 1/17/21 9:35 AM (GMT-05:00) To: PRR Pro <PRRPro@groups.io> Subject: [PRRPro] PRR F30D Murphy’s Law is at work, again. Rapido has announce that they are going to release models of the PRR F30D TOFC flatcar. As might be expected I recently completed a Sparrows Point F30D kitbash from a Bowser F30 car. I built it straight from the kit, and have done only minimal additional work on it (storage hatch for chains & jacks, tie-down loops, etc.). I added a Sylvan PRR short trailer, and ended up with … I have one more of the Sparrows Point kits to build ... hopefuly I can get it done before the Rapido cars are released. Dan Mitchell ==========
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Re: PRR F30D
Well done Dan, good looking build both the trailer, car and tie downs Fenton
On Sun, Jan 17, 2021 at 10:13 AM <christer@...> wrote:
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