Date   

Re: GR gondola pin wash

Eric Hansmann
 

Rob,

Thanks for your comment! I think it's easier to add a pin wash early in the weathering process. Some will be covered by Pan Pastels dirt and soot colors, but the effect should come through.

As for thinner, I use wet water. Just a bit of Dawn dish detergent and a glug of distilled water.


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

-----Original Message-----
From: PRRPro@groups.io <PRRPro@groups.io> On Behalf Of Robert kirkham
Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2020 8:31 PM
To: PRRPro@groups.io
Subject: Re: [PRRPro] GR gondola pin wash

I think it takes guts to apply specific weathering to specific model parts at the early stage in the weathering process, even though it is probably the only way to achieve the unique weathering patterns of different materials. I find I launch into it wondering if I can bring it back together into a unified whole. I admire the boldness, and expect it is going to pay off well. What thinner did you use for the wash? I’ve been using the airbrush thinner but have wondered about other products . . .

Rob

On Nov 29, 2020, at 7:44 AM, Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:

I’m applying a pin wash to the side stakes and other metal elements on an HO scale F&C Pennsy GR gondola. I’ve always noticed metal and wood weather differently and wanted to convey that on one of these models. The fade was done by tinting the flat coat with car color. I used a 00 brush to apply a Vallejo burnt umber wash to the metal elements. This is the first time I’ve tried a focused wash. Once this dries, I’ll use grey colored pencils to enhance the wood elements, especially the interior surfaces.

Onward!!



Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN





<IMG_4029.jpg>


Re: N4 cabin car

Bruce Smith
 

Rob,

Thanks! On the railings, I drilled freehand. It helps to have a sharp bit, but it was a PITA!  I often use a pin to create a starter hole. On scratchbuilt parts, I just make more than I need and use the good ones. In this case, the good news is that with the kitbash of 2 kits, you do have spares, although I did not have to use any for this part.

Regards,
Bruce


From: PRRPro@groups.io <PRRPro@groups.io> on behalf of Robert kirkham <rdkirkham@...>
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 10:42 AM
To: PRRPro@groups.io <PRRPro@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [PRRPro] N4 cabin car
 
Its really nice, meticulous work Bruce.  Was wondering what your tips are for drilling holes through such narrow pits of resin?  How do you ensure you don’t go off centre, or break through on an edge?  Do you use jigs?  Or is it all careful hand and eye work?

Rob


Re: N4 cabin car

Robert kirkham
 

Its really nice, meticulous work Bruce.  Was wondering what your tips are for drilling holes through such narrow pits of resin?  How do you ensure you don’t go off centre, or break through on an edge?  Do you use jigs?  Or is it all careful hand and eye work?

Rob

On Nov 29, 2020, at 3:16 PM, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:

Folks,

Moving on to the ends of the N4. I had previous drilled out the holes for the carmer uncoupling levers. glued a short piece of 0.012" wire into the hole. I added the carmer uncoupling levers from the kit, as the correct levers are not available in etched brass from Yarmouth. The F&C kit mentions 1 x 8 for the end valences. I created the end valence out of 0.020 x 0.040" styrene. These can be bent to match the roof curvature before gluing in place. As with any difficult to glue piece, a dot of contact cement, such as Barge Cement, can help hold the piece while it is secured with ACC.

I added the steps, being careful to place them correctly near the end of the car, like the NDA, not near the carbody, like the ND. Some of the steps had some holes that I patched with putty. 

Looking at the floor, I decided that it needed to be reinforced, so I added 0.100" x 0.187" stryene bracing to make sure that the floor stays together. I made sure it would not interfere with the body. 

The upper safety rail was installed on the ends of the N4 on May 25, 1941, along with drop handle extension rods to access the air line end cocks. To duplicate this, I used the end railing from the F&C kit. After carefully cleaning this part, and the ladder, I matched the location of the support pipes on the end deck with the railing and drilled #79 holes in the bottom railing. Pieces of 0.012" wire were glued into these holes. The railings were then glues to the ladder flanking the 2nd and 3rd rungs from the bottom. Looking at the prototype, the right hand vertical on the railings is flat metal that twists 90 degrees at the top and then bends to meet the roof. Since there was no way to do that with the resin part, I cut the vertical off and substituted a piece of flat brass. The piece was created by filing a 0.015" x 0.042" brass to 0.015" x 0.031". Add the twist and bends prior to installing. It was glued to the resin horizontals.

The holes in the deck for the supports for the railing and the right side vertical were drilled with a #79 bit. The holes for the ladder were drilled with a #74 bit. A piece of 0.012" wire was cut and bent for the right vertical, so that the upper part fit in a #79 hole drilled in the fascia. Two pieces of chain were threaded over this wire and glued at a distance of 2' and 4' from the deck. This wire was then installed. After trimming all of the pieces to a couple of mm longer than needed, the end railing piece was fitted and glued to the end platform. The bottom of the ladder was gently sanded so that the legs were rounded and fit into the holes. The top rail should be 48" above the deck. The extension handle for the end cock was located just inside the end rails. The handle was fabricated from a couple of pieces of 0.012" wire and plastic. A #79 hole was drilled in the deck over the location of the air line and the extension was glued in place. The existing brake wheel wire (0.015") was cut to just over 3' from the deck and the resin brake wheel installed on each end. With everything in place, the free end of the chain on the right vertical was carefully glued to the safety railings. 

At this point, the model was ready paint prep. The base and body were grit blasted with baking soda and carefully washed. After the pieces were dry, the trucks were removed and roof walk pieces cut from scale 2 x 6 basswood were added. The pieces were painted with Tamiya grey fine surface primer, which revealed that the grit blasting had opened some cracks in the roof. These underwent a couple of additional round of putty, sanding and primer. The wood on the roof walks was also gently sanded to remove fuzz. 

Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
<IMG_0752.JPG><IMG_0746.JPG><IMG_0750.JPG><IMG_0748.JPG>


Re: GR gondola pin wash

greg snook
 

Eric, 
Thanks for sharing what looks like  a wonderful technique!  Showing the difference in how the two elements weather will certainly help me in the future, and have produced a wonderful effect on your model.
Greg Snook

On Sun, Nov 29, 2020 at 10:44 AM Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:
I’m applying a pin wash to the side stakes and other metal elements on an HO scale F&C Pennsy GR gondola. I’ve always noticed metal and wood weather differently and wanted to convey that on one of these models. The fade was done by tinting the flat coat with car color. I used a 00 brush to apply a Vallejo burnt umber wash to the metal elements. This is the first time I’ve tried a focused wash. Once this dries, I’ll use grey colored pencils to enhance the wood elements, especially the interior surfaces.

Onward!!



Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN






Re: GR gondola pin wash

Robert kirkham
 

I think it takes guts to apply specific weathering to specific model parts at the early stage in the weathering process, even though it is probably the only way to achieve the unique weathering patterns of different materials. I find I launch into it wondering if I can bring it back together into a unified whole. I admire the boldness, and expect it is going to pay off well. What thinner did you use for the wash? I’ve been using the airbrush thinner but have wondered about other products . . .

Rob

On Nov 29, 2020, at 7:44 AM, Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:

I’m applying a pin wash to the side stakes and other metal elements on an HO scale F&C Pennsy GR gondola. I’ve always noticed metal and wood weather differently and wanted to convey that on one of these models. The fade was done by tinting the flat coat with car color. I used a 00 brush to apply a Vallejo burnt umber wash to the metal elements. This is the first time I’ve tried a focused wash. Once this dries, I’ll use grey colored pencils to enhance the wood elements, especially the interior surfaces.

Onward!!



Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN





<IMG_4029.jpg>


Re: N4 cabin car

Bruce Smith
 

I know I only just sent out an update, but here's the latest. I'm just about done adding Archer rivets beside the steps, at the bottom of the grab iron, and on the end ladder. 

Next is the paint shop, with buff for the interior and then FCC for the outside. 

Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Re: N4 cabin car

Bruce Smith
 

Folks,

Moving on to the ends of the N4. I had previous drilled out the holes for the carmer uncoupling levers. glued a short piece of 0.012" wire into the hole. I added the carmer uncoupling levers from the kit, as the correct levers are not available in etched brass from Yarmouth. The F&C kit mentions 1 x 8 for the end valences. I created the end valence out of 0.020 x 0.040" styrene. These can be bent to match the roof curvature before gluing in place. As with any difficult to glue piece, a dot of contact cement, such as Barge Cement, can help hold the piece while it is secured with ACC.

I added the steps, being careful to place them correctly near the end of the car, like the NDA, not near the carbody, like the ND. Some of the steps had some holes that I patched with putty. 

Looking at the floor, I decided that it needed to be reinforced, so I added 0.100" x 0.187" stryene bracing to make sure that the floor stays together. I made sure it would not interfere with the body. 

The upper safety rail was installed on the ends of the N4 on May 25, 1941, along with drop handle extension rods to access the air line end cocks. To duplicate this, I used the end railing from the F&C kit. After carefully cleaning this part, and the ladder, I matched the location of the support pipes on the end deck with the railing and drilled #79 holes in the bottom railing. Pieces of 0.012" wire were glued into these holes. The railings were then glues to the ladder flanking the 2nd and 3rd rungs from the bottom. Looking at the prototype, the right hand vertical on the railings is flat metal that twists 90 degrees at the top and then bends to meet the roof. Since there was no way to do that with the resin part, I cut the vertical off and substituted a piece of flat brass. The piece was created by filing a 0.015" x 0.042" brass to 0.015" x 0.031". Add the twist and bends prior to installing. It was glued to the resin horizontals.

The holes in the deck for the supports for the railing and the right side vertical were drilled with a #79 bit. The holes for the ladder were drilled with a #74 bit. A piece of 0.012" wire was cut and bent for the right vertical, so that the upper part fit in a #79 hole drilled in the fascia. Two pieces of chain were threaded over this wire and glued at a distance of 2' and 4' from the deck. This wire was then installed. After trimming all of the pieces to a couple of mm longer than needed, the end railing piece was fitted and glued to the end platform. The bottom of the ladder was gently sanded so that the legs were rounded and fit into the holes. The top rail should be 48" above the deck. The extension handle for the end cock was located just inside the end rails. The handle was fabricated from a couple of pieces of 0.012" wire and plastic. A #79 hole was drilled in the deck over the location of the air line and the extension was glued in place. The existing brake wheel wire (0.015") was cut to just over 3' from the deck and the resin brake wheel installed on each end. With everything in place, the free end of the chain on the right vertical was carefully glued to the safety railings. 

At this point, the model was ready paint prep. The base and body were grit blasted with baking soda and carefully washed. After the pieces were dry, the trucks were removed and roof walk pieces cut from scale 2 x 6 basswood were added. The pieces were painted with Tamiya grey fine surface primer, which revealed that the grit blasting had opened some cracks in the roof. These underwent a couple of additional round of putty, sanding and primer. The wood on the roof walks was also gently sanded to remove fuzz. 

Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Re: GR gondola pin wash

Eric Hansmann
 

Thanks, Bruce. Most of the in-service photos I’ve seen of GR and GRa gondolas all show some wear on the wood elements. I wanted the weathering to convey those subtle differences.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 

From: PRRPro@groups.io <PRRPro@groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Smith
Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2020 1:36 PM
To: PRRPro@groups.io
Subject: Re: [PRRPro] GR gondola pin wash

 

Eric,

 

That looks good and sounds like an excellent plan!

 

Regards,

Bruce

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL

 


From: PRRPro@groups.io <PRRPro@groups.io> on behalf of Eric Hansmann <eric@...>
Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2020 9:44 AM
To: PRRPro@groups.io <PRRPro@groups.io>
Subject: [PRRPro] GR gondola pin wash

 

I’m applying a pin wash to the side stakes and other metal elements on an HO scale F&C Pennsy GR gondola. I’ve always noticed metal and wood weather differently and wanted to convey that on one of these models. The fade was done by tinting the flat coat with car color. I used a 00 brush to apply a Vallejo burnt umber wash to the metal elements. This is the first time I’ve tried a focused wash. Once this dries, I’ll use grey colored pencils to enhance the wood elements, especially the interior surfaces.

Onward!!



Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN





Re: GR gondola pin wash

Eric Hansmann
 

Thanks, Chris. The Pennsy had quite a few GR and GRa class gondolas that lasted to the end of steam. Many spent another decade or two in MoW service.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

From: PRRPro@groups.io <PRRPro@groups.io> On Behalf Of christer@...
Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2020 12:30 PM
To: PRRPro@groups.io
Cc: Eric Hansmann <eric@...>
Subject: Re: [PRRPro] GR gondola pin wash

 

Impressive old car!

 

 

 

2020-11-29 16:44 skrev Eric Hansmann:

I'm applying a pin wash to the side stakes and other metal elements on an HO scale F&C Pennsy GR gondola. I've always noticed metal and wood weather differently and wanted to convey that on one of these models. The fade was done by tinting the flat coat with car color. I used a 00 brush to apply a Vallejo burnt umber wash to the metal elements. This is the first time I've tried a focused wash. Once this dries, I'll use grey colored pencils to enhance the wood elements, especially the interior surfaces.

Onward!!



Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN





Re: GR gondola pin wash

Bruce Smith
 

Eric,

That looks good and sounds like an excellent plan!

Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: PRRPro@groups.io <PRRPro@groups.io> on behalf of Eric Hansmann <eric@...>
Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2020 9:44 AM
To: PRRPro@groups.io <PRRPro@groups.io>
Subject: [PRRPro] GR gondola pin wash
 
I’m applying a pin wash to the side stakes and other metal elements on an HO scale F&C Pennsy GR gondola. I’ve always noticed metal and wood weather differently and wanted to convey that on one of these models. The fade was done by tinting the flat coat with car color. I used a 00 brush to apply a Vallejo burnt umber wash to the metal elements. This is the first time I’ve tried a focused wash. Once this dries, I’ll use grey colored pencils to enhance the wood elements, especially the interior surfaces.

Onward!!



Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN






Re: GR gondola pin wash

christer@...
 

Impressive old car!

 

 

 

2020-11-29 16:44 skrev Eric Hansmann:

I'm applying a pin wash to the side stakes and other metal elements on an HO scale F&C Pennsy GR gondola. I've always noticed metal and wood weather differently and wanted to convey that on one of these models. The fade was done by tinting the flat coat with car color. I used a 00 brush to apply a Vallejo burnt umber wash to the metal elements. This is the first time I've tried a focused wash. Once this dries, I'll use grey colored pencils to enhance the wood elements, especially the interior surfaces.

Onward!!



Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN






Re: GR gondola pin wash

Eric Hansmann
 

Thank you, Claus!

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

From: PRRPro@groups.io <PRRPro@groups.io> On Behalf Of Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2020 10:08 AM
To: PRRPro@groups.io
Subject: Re: [PRRPro] GR gondola pin wash

 

Hi Eric,

 

Looking pretty darn nice!

 

Claus Schlund

 

 

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2020 10:44 AM

Subject: [PRRPro] GR gondola pin wash

 

I’m applying a pin wash to the side stakes and other metal elements on an HO scale F&C Pennsy GR gondola. I’ve always noticed metal and wood weather differently and wanted to convey that on one of these models. The fade was done by tinting the flat coat with car color. I used a 00 brush to apply a Vallejo burnt umber wash to the metal elements. This is the first time I’ve tried a focused wash. Once this dries, I’ll use grey colored pencils to enhance the wood elements, especially the interior surfaces.

Onward!!



Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN






Re: GR gondola pin wash

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 


Hi Eric,
 
Looking pretty darn nice!
 
Claus Schlund
 
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2020 10:44 AM
Subject: [PRRPro] GR gondola pin wash

I’m applying a pin wash to the side stakes and other metal elements on an HO scale F&C Pennsy GR gondola. I’ve always noticed metal and wood weather differently and wanted to convey that on one of these models. The fade was done by tinting the flat coat with car color. I used a 00 brush to apply a Vallejo burnt umber wash to the metal elements. This is the first time I’ve tried a focused wash. Once this dries, I’ll use grey colored pencils to enhance the wood elements, especially the interior surfaces.

Onward!!



Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN







GR gondola pin wash

Eric Hansmann
 

I’m applying a pin wash to the side stakes and other metal elements on an HO scale F&C Pennsy GR gondola. I’ve always noticed metal and wood weather differently and wanted to convey that on one of these models. The fade was done by tinting the flat coat with car color. I used a 00 brush to apply a Vallejo burnt umber wash to the metal elements. This is the first time I’ve tried a focused wash. Once this dries, I’ll use grey colored pencils to enhance the wood elements, especially the interior surfaces.

Onward!!



Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN


Re: N4 cabin car

O Fenton Wells
 

Excellent detail work Bruce.  Well done
Fenton

On Fri, Nov 27, 2020 at 5:31 PM Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:
Folks,

More N4 progress.

Getting to work on the floor/underbody, I started by drilling the holes for and adding the end grab irons. I also drilled 2-56 holes for the truck screws and 1-72 holes for Kadee semiscale coupler boxes. Note that the rear tab on the coupler box must be removed. Although it does fit between the center sills, there is a small step to the body that will not allow the coupler box to sit flat.

My car will have KD brakes. To the best of my knowledge, no underframe diagram is available so this will be "punt" based on what I could identify on the actual car (which was converted to AB brakes and then the brakes stripped off of it) and what the ND and NDA looked like. 

I started by adding the rest of the bolsters using 3/32" styrene channel. About half-way down the length of a piece between the bolster and side frame I made a vertical and horizontal cut to remove one corner. A pair of these were glued to each side of the bolster. Make sure that you make matching pairs, with the flanges pointed away from the other piece.  #74 holes were drilled on an angle through the center sill about 1/4 of the distance between the bolsters and the channels on one side of each bolster were drilled for the air line. The air-line was bent from 2 pieces of 0.019" brass wire and glued in place. A #74 hole was drilled in each end of the car for the air hose. Pieces of 3/64" styrene angle were used for the end braces. The "L" faces the center of the car, and the vertical web may need to be trimmed to fit under the air line. 

When a pair of Bowser 2A-F5 trucks was test fit, two problems became clear. First, I needed to trim away a bit more of the channels that make up the bolsters, since they interfere with the truck side frames, and second, the nice "L" end braces also need to be trimmed for wheel clearance. With the trucks and the couplers mounted, a quick test showed that the car matched a Kadee coupler height gage.

The F&C kit comes with several parts that are poorly or not described in the instructions, a set of levers connected by a rod, and another lever. My kit had a Tichy AB set included, but since I am doing KD brakes, that went into the reserve and I pulled out a Tichy KD set ("Disconnected K"). Looking at the F&C parts, I was able to identity the use for each. Part "A" is the support for the reservoir, part "B" is the support for the cylinder, and part "C" is the support for the lever that connects the brakes to the handbrake at each end of the car. After some arranging, I was able to settle on a location that appears to be close to prototype and glued the supports in place. You will notice that the reservoir and cylinder are on the same side as the brake pipe. I decided to do this based on a prototype ND system photographed by Jack Consoli (TKM 33). I was concerned that the brake line might get in the way, and I did have to trim just a tiny bit, but the side of the support for the cylinder fit into the flanges of the center sill, almost perfectly. 

A #79 hole was drilled in the back of the brake cylinder, offset towards the bottom (as a brake lever has to attach to the center of the cylinder back) and a matching hole was drilled in the end of the reservoir. The clevis was cut off the brake cylinder and a hole drilled where it had been. The holes in the brake levers to attach the rods were drilled with a #79 bit. 

The reservoir and cylinder were glued into position. With the two-lever set in position, the third lever was positioned and glued. The pipe between the reservoir and cylinder was bent and glued into place, and the two-lever set glued into place, with the levers nearly parallel to the floor of the car. 0.012" brass wire was used to make the rods between the levers at the business end of the cylinder, and between the levers and a hole drilled in the center sill at the bolster for the brake rodding. A piece of wire was used to form the single long hanger that was on the center sill encompassing both brake levers that were attached to the cylinder. Finally, the piece of pipe from the Tichy set that is meant to be the pipe from the air-line to the reservoir was used for that purpose, after slightly widening the end that snaps over the pipe, so it would fit over 0.019" brass wire. Wires were formed but not glued for the rods from the 3rd lever to each end for the hand brakes. These were left long to allow room to add the chain. 

The body was fitted back onto the underbody and the wood deck planking was test fitted. The bottom bolts for the end grab irons and a small piece of the trim next to the 1/4 round ends had to be trimmed away for the floor to fit flush. For the floors to fit between the body and the end of the car, almost 1 board had to be sanded away on the inner end (Careful! Don't sand the outer end, with the holes and handbrake ratchet!). Once they fit, they were glued in place and the handbrake ratchet and floor were drilled with a #77 bit and 0.016" wire placed in the hole. Make sure that you drill straight and that the bottom hole is in the thicker part of the end sill.

To add the hand brake chains and finish the brake gear, A-Line 40 link per inch chain was cut to about 3/8" in length. The end link was drilled with a #79 bit and then a #77 bit to open the link. A piece of 0.016" brass wire about 1" long was cut (this is longer than needed for the hand brake staff - remember it has to stick out under the floor a bit too!) and threaded onto the chain. The chain was glued to the wire about 1/4" from the end. The other end of the chain was drilled with the #79 bit and the long end of the 0.016" wire was threaded through the hole for the brake staff in the bottom of the car until the chain was just about to touch the bottom of the end sill. The free end of the chain was threaded onto one of the 0.012" wires that was formed to connect to the brake lever. In one of the photos, you can see this wire and the brake staff wires in their locations to show you how their positions. The wire was marked just long of where the chain reached when it was stretched almost tight. The wire was then bent at 90 degrees at that spot, the chain slipped to that spot, and then the wire bent almost complete back on itself. The free end was trimmed to about 1/16" and then crimped to form an eye with the chain in it. With everything in position, the chain should have a slight sag. If there is too much sag, you can either take up slack by twisting the brake staff, or adjust the bend on the rod where it goes into the lever. Both the brake staff and the brake rod were glued into place. The brackets for the brake shaft were carefully cleaned up, and the hole in the bottom drilled out with a #77 bit. The bracket was carefully slid over the bottom of the brake shaft and glued to the bottom of the car. The brake shaft was trimmed so that a small amount sticks out below the bracket. I think this finishes the underbody!

I'll move onto detailing the ends next!

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Re: N4 cabin car

Bruce Smith
 

Folks,

More N4 progress.

Getting to work on the floor/underbody, I started by drilling the holes for and adding the end grab irons. I also drilled 2-56 holes for the truck screws and 1-72 holes for Kadee semiscale coupler boxes. Note that the rear tab on the coupler box must be removed. Although it does fit between the center sills, there is a small step to the body that will not allow the coupler box to sit flat.

My car will have KD brakes. To the best of my knowledge, no underframe diagram is available so this will be "punt" based on what I could identify on the actual car (which was converted to AB brakes and then the brakes stripped off of it) and what the ND and NDA looked like. 

I started by adding the rest of the bolsters using 3/32" styrene channel. About half-way down the length of a piece between the bolster and side frame I made a vertical and horizontal cut to remove one corner. A pair of these were glued to each side of the bolster. Make sure that you make matching pairs, with the flanges pointed away from the other piece.  #74 holes were drilled on an angle through the center sill about 1/4 of the distance between the bolsters and the channels on one side of each bolster were drilled for the air line. The air-line was bent from 2 pieces of 0.019" brass wire and glued in place. A #74 hole was drilled in each end of the car for the air hose. Pieces of 3/64" styrene angle were used for the end braces. The "L" faces the center of the car, and the vertical web may need to be trimmed to fit under the air line. 

When a pair of Bowser 2A-F5 trucks was test fit, two problems became clear. First, I needed to trim away a bit more of the channels that make up the bolsters, since they interfere with the truck side frames, and second, the nice "L" end braces also need to be trimmed for wheel clearance. With the trucks and the couplers mounted, a quick test showed that the car matched a Kadee coupler height gage.

The F&C kit comes with several parts that are poorly or not described in the instructions, a set of levers connected by a rod, and another lever. My kit had a Tichy AB set included, but since I am doing KD brakes, that went into the reserve and I pulled out a Tichy KD set ("Disconnected K"). Looking at the F&C parts, I was able to identity the use for each. Part "A" is the support for the reservoir, part "B" is the support for the cylinder, and part "C" is the support for the lever that connects the brakes to the handbrake at each end of the car. After some arranging, I was able to settle on a location that appears to be close to prototype and glued the supports in place. You will notice that the reservoir and cylinder are on the same side as the brake pipe. I decided to do this based on a prototype ND system photographed by Jack Consoli (TKM 33). I was concerned that the brake line might get in the way, and I did have to trim just a tiny bit, but the side of the support for the cylinder fit into the flanges of the center sill, almost perfectly. 

A #79 hole was drilled in the back of the brake cylinder, offset towards the bottom (as a brake lever has to attach to the center of the cylinder back) and a matching hole was drilled in the end of the reservoir. The clevis was cut off the brake cylinder and a hole drilled where it had been. The holes in the brake levers to attach the rods were drilled with a #79 bit. 

The reservoir and cylinder were glued into position. With the two-lever set in position, the third lever was positioned and glued. The pipe between the reservoir and cylinder was bent and glued into place, and the two-lever set glued into place, with the levers nearly parallel to the floor of the car. 0.012" brass wire was used to make the rods between the levers at the business end of the cylinder, and between the levers and a hole drilled in the center sill at the bolster for the brake rodding. A piece of wire was used to form the single long hanger that was on the center sill encompassing both brake levers that were attached to the cylinder. Finally, the piece of pipe from the Tichy set that is meant to be the pipe from the air-line to the reservoir was used for that purpose, after slightly widening the end that snaps over the pipe, so it would fit over 0.019" brass wire. Wires were formed but not glued for the rods from the 3rd lever to each end for the hand brakes. These were left long to allow room to add the chain. 

The body was fitted back onto the underbody and the wood deck planking was test fitted. The bottom bolts for the end grab irons and a small piece of the trim next to the 1/4 round ends had to be trimmed away for the floor to fit flush. For the floors to fit between the body and the end of the car, almost 1 board had to be sanded away on the inner end (Careful! Don't sand the outer end, with the holes and handbrake ratchet!). Once they fit, they were glued in place and the handbrake ratchet and floor were drilled with a #77 bit and 0.016" wire placed in the hole. Make sure that you drill straight and that the bottom hole is in the thicker part of the end sill.

To add the hand brake chains and finish the brake gear, A-Line 40 link per inch chain was cut to about 3/8" in length. The end link was drilled with a #79 bit and then a #77 bit to open the link. A piece of 0.016" brass wire about 1" long was cut (this is longer than needed for the hand brake staff - remember it has to stick out under the floor a bit too!) and threaded onto the chain. The chain was glued to the wire about 1/4" from the end. The other end of the chain was drilled with the #79 bit and the long end of the 0.016" wire was threaded through the hole for the brake staff in the bottom of the car until the chain was just about to touch the bottom of the end sill. The free end of the chain was threaded onto one of the 0.012" wires that was formed to connect to the brake lever. In one of the photos, you can see this wire and the brake staff wires in their locations to show you how their positions. The wire was marked just long of where the chain reached when it was stretched almost tight. The wire was then bent at 90 degrees at that spot, the chain slipped to that spot, and then the wire bent almost complete back on itself. The free end was trimmed to about 1/16" and then crimped to form an eye with the chain in it. With everything in position, the chain should have a slight sag. If there is too much sag, you can either take up slack by twisting the brake staff, or adjust the bend on the rod where it goes into the lever. Both the brake staff and the brake rod were glued into place. The brackets for the brake shaft were carefully cleaned up, and the hole in the bottom drilled out with a #77 bit. The bracket was carefully slid over the bottom of the brake shaft and glued to the bottom of the car. The brake shaft was trimmed so that a small amount sticks out below the bracket. I think this finishes the underbody!

I'll move onto detailing the ends next!

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Re: N4 cabin car

Bruce Smith
 

Pat,

I may have been unclear about which "grooves" I meant - the roof has an inset edge that is designed to take the top of the sides. There are also board-like grooves in the roof to duplicate the boards in the roof. I did not worry about making these line up when gluing the roof since these will be inside the car.

And yes, on the side boards, I suggest sanding down the last board until there is a bit of the groove between boards left.

Regards,
Bruce


From: PRRPro@groups.io <PRRPro@groups.io> on behalf of Pat McKinney via groups.io <PKMac101@...>
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2020 8:52 PM
To: PRRPro@groups.io <PRRPro@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [PRRPro] N4 cabin car
 
Bruce,
             It is shaping up very nicely. I take it that you made the vertical side cuts fall as the grove between vertical boards. How did you make it match with the roof if the roof groves run parallel with the length of the car?
Have a great Thanksgiving.

Pat McKinney  


-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Smith <smithbf@...>
To: PRRPro@groups.io <PRRPro@groups.io>
Sent: Wed, Nov 25, 2020 8:55 am
Subject: Re: [PRRPro] N4 cabin car

Folks,

Some more N4 Progress! It’s looking like a cabin car!

Roof - I added pieces of styrene 0.030" square strip, 0.27" long, evenly spaced, to the roof as new roofwalk supports. A light sanding on the top leveled these. I also drilled the holes in the end of the roof and cupola and added the grab irons. The grey primer makes it a lot easier to see the places to drill than looking at white resin! The 18" straight grab irons that came with the kit had weird crimps in them so I threw them away and used Tichy. When adding the cupola grab irons, I cut the legs pretty short so that they woiuld not be visible below the roof. Finally, I cleaned and glued on the shades on the sides of the cupola.

Sides - I drilled the holes for the grab irons and cupola braces. I had to locate a new hole for the bottom end of the curved grab iron. That was about 10 boards from the end of the car. I used Tichy curved grab irons. I fashioned the middle support with 0.012" wire bent at a 45 degree angle and then trimmed nearly flush with the grab iron. After taking the attached photos, I realized that I needed to add rivets to the bottom end of the grab irons. I'll do that with an Archer rivet after grit blasting.

Ends - I cleaned the flash off the ends and dusted them with some weathering chalk to better show the drill points. I drilled for the end grab irons, and drilled a hole directly below the retainer valve. The "L" shaped grab irons were bent from 0.012" brass wire and the corner supports were made the same way as those on the curved grab irons. I bent a piece of 0.010" brass wire for the line to the retainer. It needs a slight bend to get around the grab iron. 

Assembly!  This was actually pretty straight forward. Before assembling the pieces, I cut all of the ends off of the grab irons on the back side and then filed everything flat and smooth. I used Coffman Engineering Right Clamps to glue an end to each side, and then to make the "box". Make sure that the ends of the sides fit into the cutout on the ends and that the sides and the bottom extensions of the ends are flush on the inside so that the floor can fit in. I test fit the floor at this point... but no glue!  My floor will be removable, at least for now, to allow me to glaze the windows after painting. When the box was done, I centered it on the roof. I had to so some trimming of grooves in the roof to make it fit, but not much. I then glued the roof to the body, trying to keep everything reasonably square. 

Once everything was assembled, I added the cupola braces with 0.012" brass wire. In looking through my 2 kits, there was no smoke jack, so I fabricated a base and stove pipe from styrene and brass wire (0.14" and 0.063" respectively) and then fashioned the cover from some pie-plate aluminum. 

The body is ready for grit blasting and the paint shop! (but that will wait until the underbody is done)

Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Re: N4 cabin car

Pat McKinney
 

Bruce,
             It is shaping up very nicely. I take it that you made the vertical side cuts fall as the grove between vertical boards. How did you make it match with the roof if the roof groves run parallel with the length of the car?
Have a great Thanksgiving.

Pat McKinney  


-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Smith <smithbf@...>
To: PRRPro@groups.io <PRRPro@groups.io>
Sent: Wed, Nov 25, 2020 8:55 am
Subject: Re: [PRRPro] N4 cabin car

Folks,

Some more N4 Progress! It’s looking like a cabin car!

Roof - I added pieces of styrene 0.030" square strip, 0.27" long, evenly spaced, to the roof as new roofwalk supports. A light sanding on the top leveled these. I also drilled the holes in the end of the roof and cupola and added the grab irons. The grey primer makes it a lot easier to see the places to drill than looking at white resin! The 18" straight grab irons that came with the kit had weird crimps in them so I threw them away and used Tichy. When adding the cupola grab irons, I cut the legs pretty short so that they woiuld not be visible below the roof. Finally, I cleaned and glued on the shades on the sides of the cupola.

Sides - I drilled the holes for the grab irons and cupola braces. I had to locate a new hole for the bottom end of the curved grab iron. That was about 10 boards from the end of the car. I used Tichy curved grab irons. I fashioned the middle support with 0.012" wire bent at a 45 degree angle and then trimmed nearly flush with the grab iron. After taking the attached photos, I realized that I needed to add rivets to the bottom end of the grab irons. I'll do that with an Archer rivet after grit blasting.

Ends - I cleaned the flash off the ends and dusted them with some weathering chalk to better show the drill points. I drilled for the end grab irons, and drilled a hole directly below the retainer valve. The "L" shaped grab irons were bent from 0.012" brass wire and the corner supports were made the same way as those on the curved grab irons. I bent a piece of 0.010" brass wire for the line to the retainer. It needs a slight bend to get around the grab iron. 

Assembly!  This was actually pretty straight forward. Before assembling the pieces, I cut all of the ends off of the grab irons on the back side and then filed everything flat and smooth. I used Coffman Engineering Right Clamps to glue an end to each side, and then to make the "box". Make sure that the ends of the sides fit into the cutout on the ends and that the sides and the bottom extensions of the ends are flush on the inside so that the floor can fit in. I test fit the floor at this point... but no glue!  My floor will be removable, at least for now, to allow me to glaze the windows after painting. When the box was done, I centered it on the roof. I had to so some trimming of grooves in the roof to make it fit, but not much. I then glued the roof to the body, trying to keep everything reasonably square. 

Once everything was assembled, I added the cupola braces with 0.012" brass wire. In looking through my 2 kits, there was no smoke jack, so I fabricated a base and stove pipe from styrene and brass wire (0.14" and 0.063" respectively) and then fashioned the cover from some pie-plate aluminum. 

The body is ready for grit blasting and the paint shop! (but that will wait until the underbody is done)

Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Re: N4 cabin car

Bruce Smith
 

Paul,

That's a gorgeous O-scale brass truck, but I don't think that it is mislabeled. It appears to be a 2A-F4. The frame has a greater drop at the spring package than the 2A-F2. Good news for O-scale modelers on PRRPro as they can use this brass truck on their N5 and N5B models.

Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: PRRPro@groups.io <PRRPro@groups.io> on behalf of Paul Alphonse <paullalphonse@...>
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2020 10:14 AM
To: PRRPro@groups.io <PRRPro@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [PRRPro] N4 cabin car
 
I should have been more explicit.

Yes, it is not a correct model out of the package.  However the cast side frames appear to have the correct profile, and in this case they expect you to assemble the bolster and spring package to the cast side frames.  You can fabricate your own bolster and leaf spring instead of having to hack up the plastic Bowser trucks which will be more difficult.  Trying to keep the bolster openings and related geometry in the plastic side frames will be finicky and even minor differences on how you hold that shape will probably be noticable from looking at the model in a museum setting.  You will have to do that four times too and then also fabricate a bolster and spring assembly for both trucks.  If you mess up one modifying even one side frame you are already matching the cost of the brass truck as well considering shipping.

If you are active at all on the Facebook brass pages there is a gentleman who does his own casting of custom parts and I believe he offers it to other modelers.  I can't say want the cost of that would be, although I doubt it would be much since it just seems like a pastime to him.  In this route you would get a brass truck that can be soldered together, be strong and sturdy and have good weight to it as well.  I prefer using metal trucks when I can.  Even with good weight in the model you have probably found that trucks are light themselves may ride up on one axle only.  This leaves the second axle with an opportunity to catch a turnout feature or the slightest mismatch in rail and take your car off the tracks.  Frustrating.

Ironically it looks like this truck is made in O-scale, but I think it's labeled incorrectly:

https://americanscalemodels.com/O/O_DETAIL_PARTS/O_Trucks?product_id=2563

Might be worth it to email them and ask if know of an exact copy in HO.

For what it's worth, I attack uneven surfaces of ACC and resin with a finer metal file like what Tamiya offers.  The relative hardness is minor and the rigidness of the file prevents your tool from conforming to any unwanted profile on the workpiece.

Best
Paul


Re: [PRR] BM70- RPOs

Larry Reynolds
 

Bill,

 

Good to hear from you and your pointers on PRR passenger modeling.  Did you ever complete your “Penn Texas” consist?

 

Larry

 

 

From: PRRPro@groups.io [mailto:PRRPro@groups.io] On Behalf Of diesell48 via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2020 3:25 PM
To: prrpro@groups.io
Subject: [PRRPro] [PRR] BM70- RPOs

 




-----Original Message-----
From: diesell48@...
To: dougkisala@... <dougkisala@...>
Sent: Wed, Nov 25, 2020 1:24 pm
Subject: Re: [PRR] BM70- RPOs

Hi guys
Microscale makes  a silver window glazing set.  They won't fit the RPO windows, but you can cut them down to size.  I've also done a few cars with a small brush, but you need a REALLY steady hand to do this.  Misapplied silver glazing is easily washed away.  Not so paint.   Fairly certain that I cut away most of the Rivarossi glass from the roof/glass part and replaced that with something thinner and more transparent.

My RPO fleet is: a WKW BM70M and a BM70N from WKW, with very few modifications.  I have also built an M70b and a BM70K from Bethlehem Car Works, both with a few mods and additions.  I have also done up a Rivarossi BM70nb and the Robert Hannegan.  Hannegan was by far the worst... cutting the two extra windows was a real chore, and the work here is not perfect.  Both these Rivarossi cars required the addition of grab irons... pretty many if I remember correctly.  You also have to change out the doors and trucks, as the Hannegan had portholes and six wheel trucks.  WKW makes a set of RPO six wheel trucks, but the molded on steps do not line up properly, so you have to add a single step to the car at each door over the trucks, and then you have to affix that step/rung to the trucks after removing the original step/rung.  It was a lot of work.  I don't know if I would do it again.  Well, OK... maybe.  In the Blardone article there is a pix of the Hannegan that clearly shows a stripe!  I didn't model that as I don't think it lasted very long, but I can always add it.

Blardone's article in the Keystone is required reading for anyone modeling the RPOs.  One of the best written articles I have read on anything, and it has a list of the disposition of every RPO car that the PRR had. The info in this article is not readily available elsewhere.

The BCW BM70k is, IMO, well worth modeling if you can find the kit.  It only had a 30' RPO section.  I believe that I got a clerestory roof from John Greene for this kit, which does provide a highly visible variation.

Bill Millham


-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Kisala via groups.io <dougkisala@...>
To: David Wilson <davidchriswilson@...>; PRR <prr@prr.groups.io>
Sent: Tue, Nov 24, 2020 9:02 pm
Subject: Re: [PRR] BM70- RPOs

Dave, list,

 

Back in the 90s (before I got really farsighted), I used a small brush (00 or something similar) and Tamiya's aluminum acrylic paint.  

 

The Rivarossi carbody has fairly prominent outlines around the windows that make it somewhat easier to brush paint details.

 

Doug Kisala

 

On Tuesday, November 24, 2020, 05:56:30 PM PST, David Wilson <davidchriswilson@...> wrote:

 

 

Nice looking car, Doug! How did you do the aluminum frames around the windows?

Dave Wilson



On Nov 24, 2020, at 8:53 PM, Doug Kisala <dougkisala@...> wrote:



Dave, list,

 

In the November 1995 Railroad Model Craftsman Bob Kessler wrote about kitbashing a BM70nb from a Rivarossi "1930s" RPO and (available at the time) an Eastern Car Works arched roof.  Bethlehem Car Works #40 PRR arch roof should work and it is currently available.  

 

The Keystone issue with the giant RPO article was the first issue I received when I joined the Society.  When Bob's article came out just a couple of years later, I kitbashed survivor 6509 using his article as a guide.  Thanks very much to Chuck Blardone and Bob Kessler for the inspiration.  

 

Doug Kisala 

 

 

 

On Tuesday, November 24, 2020, 05:29:48 PM PST, Dave's Gmail <davidchriswilson@...> wrote:

 

 

I haven’t seen any modeling articles on Pennsy RPOs. Is there anything out there? It seems like a ripe research subject. I need to do some reading.....

Dave Wilson

(snip)



 

 

<BM70nb 6509.jpg>