Topics

Very Late Start - Type 2

Curt
 

I confess a lot has happened since I ordered these Type 2 boards - maybe I was distracted when I wrecked my K2 or my house flooded maybe ...both okay now -- I digress.

Debating whether its 'practical' to find a UNO and type 2 DDS to populate the generator board - any suggested merchants (?) - or should I get a new host board (if one can be had) for newer hardware? (my initial shopping session had me seeing some sticker shock). I think I have most everything except misc hardware to assembled this stuff beyond these 2 key items. I honestly don't mind seeking a new generator board is that is the prudent approach?

73 Curt

William Kimber
 

Hi Curt,


Uno are cheap on Epay.  QRPLabs has a Si5351 module that fits in place of a AD98590 DDS board.  No connection other than I bought but like you yet to do anything with (catarachs don't help).


Cheers,

Will

On 26/09/18 12:01, Curt via Groups.Io wrote:
I confess a lot has happened since I ordered these Type 2 boards - maybe I was distracted when I wrecked my K2 or my house flooded maybe ...both okay now -- I digress.

Debating whether its 'practical' to find a UNO and type 2 DDS to populate the generator board - any suggested merchants (?) - or should I get a new host board (if one can be had) for newer hardware? (my initial shopping session had me seeing some sticker shock). I think I have most everything except misc hardware to assembled this stuff beyond these 2 key items. I honestly don't mind seeking a new generator board is that is the prudent approach?

73 Curt

Curt
 

Will

Thanks for reply.

Okay I think I see Uno R3 for less than $8 from a us supplier. So now I just need to id which source for a type 2 9850. Not sure I am ready to mod and code for the si5351.

Curious what soldering you might need done to get yours assembled? I will be checking my stash for board components as I may have some extras there.

Curt

K5ESS
 

Curt,
The PHSNA needs a fairly pure signal source to give accurate results, generally meaning the signal source should be a sine wave which the AD9851/51 can provide. The SI-5351 has a square wave output which is rich in harmonics so it's not a good choice for the PHSNA. AD9850 modules in the Type II (two rows of 10 pins) can still be had on Ebay for a reasonable price ($14 + $2 shipping item 472030418663) . The AD9851 modules are about twice the price.
Mike
K5ESS

-----Original Message-----
From: PHSNA@groups.io [mailto:PHSNA@groups.io] On Behalf Of Curt via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2018 9:21 PM
To: PHSNA@groups.io
Subject: Re: [PHSNA] Very Late Start - Type 2

Will

Thanks for reply.

Okay I think I see Uno R3 for less than $8 from a us supplier. So now I just need to id which source for a type 2 9850. Not sure I am ready to mod and code for the si5351.

Curious what soldering you might need done to get yours assembled? I will be checking my stash for board components as I may have some extras there.

Curt

William Kimber
 

Thanks Mike for the reminder that a  sine wave is required.


Curt, I think I have all the parts, what I don't have at present is time.


Cheers,

Will

On 26/09/18 15:20, K5ESS wrote:
Curt,
The PHSNA needs a fairly pure signal source to give accurate results, generally meaning the signal source should be a sine wave which the AD9851/51 can provide. The SI-5351 has a square wave output which is rich in harmonics so it's not a good choice for the PHSNA. AD9850 modules in the Type II (two rows of 10 pins) can still be had on Ebay for a reasonable price ($14 + $2 shipping item 472030418663) . The AD9851 modules are about twice the price.
Mike
K5ESS

-----Original Message-----
From: PHSNA@groups.io [mailto:PHSNA@groups.io] On Behalf Of Curt via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2018 9:21 PM
To: PHSNA@groups.io
Subject: Re: [PHSNA] Very Late Start - Type 2

Will

Thanks for reply.

Okay I think I see Uno R3 for less than $8 from a us supplier. So now I just need to id which source for a type 2 9850. Not sure I am ready to mod and code for the si5351.

Curious what soldering you might need done to get yours assembled? I will be checking my stash for board components as I may have some extras there.

Curt







Clifford Heath
 

On 26 Sep 2018, at 1:20 pm, K5ESS <k5ess.nothdurft@...> wrote:
The PHSNA needs a fairly pure signal source to give accurate results, generally meaning the signal source should be a sine wave which the AD9851/51 can provide. The SI-5351 has a square wave output which is rich in harmonics so it's not a good choice for the PHSNA.
Good call. The PHSNA has no front-end or band-pass filtering,
so it's susceptible to any interfering signals, including its own
harmonics. Especially given that your DUT is likely to react to
harmonics more than to random interferers, this is a big worry.

AD9850 modules in the Type II (two rows of 10 pins) can still be had on Ebay for a reasonable price ($14 + $2 shipping item 472030418663) . The AD9851 modules are about twice the price.
The AD9851 are good to 50MHz, usable to 70MHz,
which is more than twice the AD9850. Recommend!

Clifford Heath, VK3CLF.

Mike
K5ESS

-----Original Message-----
From: PHSNA@groups.io [mailto:PHSNA@groups.io] On Behalf Of Curt via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2018 9:21 PM
To: PHSNA@groups.io
Subject: Re: [PHSNA] Very Late Start - Type 2

Will

Thanks for reply.

Okay I think I see Uno R3 for less than $8 from a us supplier. So now I just need to id which source for a type 2 9850. Not sure I am ready to mod and code for the si5351.

Curious what soldering you might need done to get yours assembled? I will be checking my stash for board components as I may have some extras there.

Curt







 

I have one I've been meaning to build too. Too many other projects and family things getting in the way. But it's getting towards fall and maybe time to finally build this.

So what would be a good source for the AD9851 module? Would this ebay item 273412902553 be acceptable? Or does anyone have a better choice or source?

wb6ogd
 

True, the SI5351 is not best...
BUT, at higher freqs it's output becomes more sine wave.  And at times, I thought I might want a higher freq
generator.

So I added an Si5351 also.  I have a switch and separate SMA outputs for AD9851 or Si5351.
My PHSNA is built (very) ugly style, no PCB except for  the RF detector.  It also has local mode where it is
controlled by a rotary encoder and LCD.

My Arduino code controls all, it is available in the Files area.

73,
Gary
WB6OGD

On 9/25/2018 9:11 PM, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 26 Sep 2018, at 1:20 pm, K5ESS <k5ess.nothdurft@...> wrote:
The PHSNA needs a fairly pure signal source to give accurate results, generally meaning the signal source should be a sine wave which the AD9851/51 can provide. The SI-5351 has a square wave output which is rich in harmonics so it's not a good choice for the PHSNA.
Good call. The PHSNA has no front-end or band-pass filtering,
so it's susceptible to any interfering signals, including its own
harmonics. Especially given that your DUT is likely to react to
harmonics more than to random interferers, this is a big worry.

K5ESS
 

I would offer a word of caution on the AD9851 modules. The Type I modules
(three rows of seven pins) have been very popular in VFO and antenna
analyzer projects. This has resulted in a doubling or greater in price for
these modules. Type I modules from some suppliers have chips that are marked
as a 9851 such but in fact are 9850 chips. These modules need a clock
setting of 120 MHz with the clock multiplier bit enabled in order to output
the correct frequency. The '9850 chips do have an undocumented X4 clock
multiplier. I have not heard of any reports of Type II modules that have
this defect.
Mike
K5ESS

-----Original Message-----
From: PHSNA@groups.io [mailto:PHSNA@groups.io] On Behalf Of Clifford Heath
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2018 11:12 PM
To: PHSNA@groups.io
Subject: Re: [PHSNA] Very Late Start - Type 2

On 26 Sep 2018, at 1:20 pm, K5ESS <k5ess.nothdurft@...> wrote:
The PHSNA needs a fairly pure signal source to give accurate results,
generally meaning the signal source should be a sine wave which the
AD9851/51 can provide. The SI-5351 has a square wave output which is rich
in harmonics so it's not a good choice for the PHSNA.

Good call. The PHSNA has no front-end or band-pass filtering,
so it's susceptible to any interfering signals, including its own
harmonics. Especially given that your DUT is likely to react to
harmonics more than to random interferers, this is a big worry.

AD9850 modules in the Type II (two rows of 10 pins) can still be had on
Ebay for a reasonable price ($14 + $2 shipping item 472030418663) . The
AD9851 modules are about twice the price.

The AD9851 are good to 50MHz, usable to 70MHz,
which is more than twice the AD9850. Recommend!

Clifford Heath, VK3CLF.

Mike
K5ESS

-----Original Message-----
From: PHSNA@groups.io [mailto:PHSNA@groups.io] On Behalf Of Curt via
Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2018 9:21 PM
To: PHSNA@groups.io
Subject: Re: [PHSNA] Very Late Start - Type 2

Will

Thanks for reply.

Okay I think I see Uno R3 for less than $8 from a us supplier. So now I
just need to id which source for a type 2 9850. Not sure I am ready to mod
and code for the si5351.

Curious what soldering you might need done to get yours assembled? I will
be checking my stash for board components as I may have some extras there.

Curt







K5ESS
 

David,
That module is the wrong form factor to fit on the PHSNA base board. Here is one with the right form factor - Ebay item 262505118496. I can't vouch for that supplier as I have not used them.
Mike
K5ESS

-----Original Message-----
From: PHSNA@groups.io [mailto:PHSNA@groups.io] On Behalf Of David Jones via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2018 8:14 AM
To: PHSNA@groups.io
Subject: Re: [PHSNA] Very Late Start - Type 2

I have one I've been meaning to build too. Too many other projects and family things getting in the way. But it's getting towards fall and maybe time to finally build this.

So what would be a good source for the AD9851 module? Would this ebay item 273412902553 be acceptable? Or does anyone have a better choice or source?

Nick Kennedy
 

That one doesn't look quite like the right form factor, assuming you want
it to fit right in to one of Jim's boards. I typically use his PHSNA FAQ
Sheet and compare the photos with what eBay offers:

https://groups.io/g/PHSNA/files/PHSNA%20FAQ%20Sheet.pdf

Of course, I have built PHSNA units with things that didn't fit up and had
jumpers running everywhere. Worked fine, but a bit ugly.

73-

Nick, WA5BDU


On Wed, Sep 26, 2018 at 8:14 AM David Jones via Groups.Io <goofy_36=
yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

I have one I've been meaning to build too. Too many other projects and
family things getting in the way. But it's getting towards fall and maybe
time to finally build this.

So what would be a good source for the AD9851 module? Would this ebay
item 273412902553 be acceptable? Or does anyone have a better choice or
source?




 

Ok. Thanks. I'll look over the faq sheet and see if I can find a better match.

Clifford Heath
 

On 27 Sep 2018, at 12:09 am, wb6ogd <garywinblad@...> wrote:
True, the SI5351 is not best...
BUT, at higher freqs it's output becomes more sine wave. And at times, I thought I might want a higher freq
generator.
If you want higher frequencies, you should consider adapting PHSNA
to use the AD9959. You get four channels with a 500MHz core, so can
generate up to 200MHz sine waves. I've published driver code for it:
<https://github.com/cjheath/AD9959>

I'm using this in a new full multi-port VNA design which requires two
coherent channels (digitally phase locked, but sweeping on different
frequencies). I'll let you know how that progresses.

Clifford Heath.

wb6ogd
 

Uh Clifford,
The eval board for AD9959 is $430 at Digikey..  Can you get those on ebay  for cheap?

Si5351 board is about $7.

You might as well go buy a used HP or something, no?
I think I have about $25 in my PHSNA total out the door...

73,
Gary
WB6OGD

On 9/26/2018 3:32 PM, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 27 Sep 2018, at 12:09 am, wb6ogd <garywinblad@...> wrote:
True, the SI5351 is not best...
BUT, at higher freqs it's output becomes more sine wave. And at times, I thought I might want a higher freq
generator.
If you want higher frequencies, you should consider adapting PHSNA
to use the AD9959. You get four channels with a 500MHz core, so can
generate up to 200MHz sine waves. I've published driver code for it:
<https://github.com/cjheath/AD9959>

I'm using this in a new full multi-port VNA design which requires two
coherent channels (digitally phase locked, but sweeping on different
frequencies). I'll let you know how that progresses.

Clifford Heath.

Clifford Heath
 

I bought this:

<https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Four-way-orthogonal-signal-generator-DDS-AD9959-core-board-200MHZ-AD9854/32713419146.html>,

but I recommend you spend $20 more and get one with transformers
or at least with video op-amps. The DACs in the AD9959 steer a
constant current through differential outputs, and it's important that
these outputs see the exact same load impedances to keep the
currents in balance. If not, the steered current fluctuates and that
makes the channels interfere with each other somewhat.

The bare chip is available (end of reel surplus) for ten bucks on
Aliexpress, if you can deal with the SMD.
<https://www.aliexpress.com/item/AD9959BCPZ-VFQFN-56-AD9959BCP/32787625498.html>

Second-hand gear is very expensive here in Australia. It's a small
enough market that it all gets bought by dealers who are prepared
to price it high and wait a long time.

Clifford Heath.

On 27 Sep 2018, at 8:46 am, wb6ogd <garywinblad@...> wrote:

Uh Clifford,
The eval board for AD9959 is $430 at Digikey.. Can you get those on ebay for cheap?

Si5351 board is about $7.

You might as well go buy a used HP or something, no?
I think I have about $25 in my PHSNA total out the door...

73,
Gary
WB6OGD


On 9/26/2018 3:32 PM, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 27 Sep 2018, at 12:09 am, wb6ogd <garywinblad@...> wrote:
True, the SI5351 is not best...
BUT, at higher freqs it's output becomes more sine wave. And at times, I thought I might want a higher freq
generator.
If you want higher frequencies, you should consider adapting PHSNA
to use the AD9959. You get four channels with a 500MHz core, so can
generate up to 200MHz sine waves. I've published driver code for it:
<https://github.com/cjheath/AD9959>

I'm using this in a new full multi-port VNA design which requires two
coherent channels (digitally phase locked, but sweeping on different
frequencies). I'll let you know how that progresses.

Clifford Heath.



K5ESS
 

Well as a matter of fact you can get them on ebay cheap(relatively). Item 183406561654. But you better hurry, there's only one left ;-)
Mike
K5ESS

-----Original Message-----
From: PHSNA@groups.io [mailto:PHSNA@groups.io] On Behalf Of wb6ogd
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2018 5:47 PM
To: PHSNA@groups.io
Subject: Re: [PHSNA] Very Late Start - Type 2

Uh Clifford,
The eval board for AD9959 is $430 at Digikey.. Can you get those on
ebay for cheap?

Si5351 board is about $7.

You might as well go buy a used HP or something, no?
I think I have about $25 in my PHSNA total out the door...

73,
Gary
WB6OGD


On 9/26/2018 3:32 PM, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 27 Sep 2018, at 12:09 am, wb6ogd <garywinblad@...> wrote:
True, the SI5351 is not best...
BUT, at higher freqs it's output becomes more sine wave. And at times, I thought I might want a higher freq
generator.
If you want higher frequencies, you should consider adapting PHSNA
to use the AD9959. You get four channels with a 500MHz core, so can
generate up to 200MHz sine waves. I've published driver code for it:
<https://github.com/cjheath/AD9959>

I'm using this in a new full multi-port VNA design which requires two
coherent channels (digitally phase locked, but sweeping on different
frequencies). I'll let you know how that progresses.

Clifford Heath.


Clifford Heath
 

On 27 Sep 2018, at 10:04 am, K5ESS <k5ess.nothdurft@...> wrote:
Well as a matter of fact you can get them on ebay cheap(relatively). Item 183406561654. But you better hurry, there's only one left ;-)
That version is unbalanced, like the one I bought.

Clifford Heath.

Curt
 

Thanks for aid and encouragement, from multiple continents. I got a handle on shopping now.

Great to discuss, learn or be reminded. Exciting third, fifth, etc harmonics not a good thing for filter measurement. I should have grasped that, but nice suggestion.

I am content to build with an ad9850 That is enough coverage for now. Brad's suggestion that jumpers aren't death to the product give some leeway. And I am reminded I can start assembly while awaiting the dds to arrive.

Very 73 Curt

wb6ogd
 

Clifford,
Oh.! That looks like a good deal.
I still need a low phase noise LO for my
Picastar project.. humm.
73,
Gary
Wb6ogd

On Sep 26, 2018, at 4:55 PM, Clifford Heath <clifford.heath@...> wrote:

I bought this:

<https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Four-way-orthogonal-signal-generator-DDS-AD9959-core-board-200MHZ-AD9854/32713419146.html>,

but I recommend you spend $20 more and get one with transformers
or at least with video op-amps. The DACs in the AD9959 steer a
constant current through differential outputs, and it's important that
these outputs see the exact same load impedances to keep the
currents in balance. If not, the steered current fluctuates and that
makes the channels interfere with each other somewhat.

The bare chip is available (end of reel surplus) for ten bucks on
Aliexpress, if you can deal with the SMD.
<https://www.aliexpress.com/item/AD9959BCPZ-VFQFN-56-AD9959BCP/32787625498.html>

Second-hand gear is very expensive here in Australia. It's a small
enough market that it all gets bought by dealers who are prepared
to price it high and wait a long time.

Clifford Heath.

On 27 Sep 2018, at 8:46 am, wb6ogd <garywinblad@...> wrote:

Uh Clifford,
The eval board for AD9959 is $430 at Digikey.. Can you get those on ebay for cheap?

Si5351 board is about $7.

You might as well go buy a used HP or something, no?
I think I have about $25 in my PHSNA total out the door...

73,
Gary
WB6OGD


On 9/26/2018 3:32 PM, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 27 Sep 2018, at 12:09 am, wb6ogd <garywinblad@...> wrote:
True, the SI5351 is not best...
BUT, at higher freqs it's output becomes more sine wave. And at times, I thought I might want a higher freq
generator.
If you want higher frequencies, you should consider adapting PHSNA
to use the AD9959. You get four channels with a 500MHz core, so can
generate up to 200MHz sine waves. I've published driver code for it:
<https://github.com/cjheath/AD9959>

I'm using this in a new full multi-port VNA design which requires two
coherent channels (digitally phase locked, but sweeping on different
frequencies). I'll let you know how that progresses.

Clifford Heath.