Date   
Re: AD9850 module pc board

Terry VK5TM
 

I've got the CAD file for that one, it is in Sprint layout 6 format.

I can upload that to the files section and/or generate the gerbers for it if anyone is interested.

Re: AD9850 module pc board

Glenn
 

Thats pretty nice but for homebrew, has some problems. Not insurmountable, but testing patience

Very thin ground heat relief tracks. Could easily be etched away.
Tiny through hole pads, more suited to pro production than home brew. Would test alignment top/bottom to the limit. (small holes can be difficult to home drill also)
Through holes under the chip. OK for pro production but tricky for home brew
Since most home brewers can't do through hole plating, thin wires would have to be fitted in many vias and the connectors.

glenn
vk3pe

Re: PHSNA hardware info starting point

Gyula Molnar
 

I think you might also want to check out this presentation:
https://groups.io/g/PHSNA/files/OzarkCon%20Presentation%20for%20PDF%207%20Apr%202014.pdf

Due to the speed of technical development, it is also worth following the development process.
After all, every person is on a different level, so he gets involved in the topic somewhere.
Thank you for the opportunity to learn about the work of this group. tnx Nick.

73, Gyula HA3HZ

*http://ha3hz.hu*

Re: AD9850 module pc board

Jim Pruitt
 

This one?
https://ad9850pcbddsvfomodule.blogspot.com/

Thank you.

Jim Pruitt
WA7DUY

On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 9:07 PM Terry VK5TM <vk5tm@...> wrote:

I have the EMRD files (but not the photo's) and can't find the CO6BG pcb
in a quick search through them.

I'll have a proper look later.

Terry VK5TM



Re: Ver. 1.42 and crystal measurement

goldeaglemex strathman
 

Nick
Thanks for the quick reply!

They (the VA) tell me that I'll probably croak from old age. I live in
Ensenada Mexico where screws let alone
toroids etc.don't exist so have been known to use the Beat Fit/Beat to Life
technic a few times.
When I get organized Ill do a post for boards. The nanoVNA learning curve
will have to wait!

Ron, K6DNV/XE


Nick
Not sure of the date of your post but I am pleased to see that the PHSNA
project has been saved. I came to the project late, missed the boards,
etc
but saved all the documentation and parts needed for the project.
Assembled
and tested several modules, located 3 HP435 power meters ($5.00 ea), very
well designed enclosures.
Used 1 for the power meter and power supplies and another for the sweep
generator and receiver. Got waylaid with chemo and radiation, got that
behind me successfully and and now wish to complete the project . I
intend
to use the PHSNA to characterize the crystals for the receiver. So, looks
like there will be enough of the community left to get me over the humps.
Thanks for all the work you put into the PHSNA.

Ron, K6DNV. First licensed 1957 as KN6DNV now Extra.





Re: Ver. 1.42 and crystal measurement

Nick Kennedy
 

Ron,

Congratulations on getting those treatments behind you.

As for boards for the projects. I'm assuming Jim is not in the PHSNA board
business any longer. But there might be some on the list with extra boards
(myself included) that you or someone else coming late to the project could
use.

You might or not find the board configuration to match the hardware you've
been collecting, but possibly you could "beat to fit".

73-

Nick, WA5BDU

On Sat, May 16, 2020 at 7:57 PM goldeaglemex strathman <
goldeaglemex@...> wrote:

Nick
Not sure of the date of your post but I am pleased to see that the PHSNA
project has been saved. I came to the project late, missed the boards, etc
but saved all the documentation and parts needed for the project. Assembled
and tested several modules, located 3 HP435 power meters ($5.00 ea), very
well designed enclosures.
Used 1 for the power meter and power supplies and another for the sweep
generator and receiver. Got waylaid with chemo and radiation, got that
behind me successfully and and now wish to complete the project . I intend
to use the PHSNA to characterize the crystals for the receiver. So, looks
like there will be enough of the community left to get me over the humps.
Thanks for all the work you put into the PHSNA.

Ron, K6DNV. First licensed 1957 as KN6DNV now Extra.



PHSNA hardware info starting point

Nick Kennedy
 

I posted earlier about finding the software & Arduino source code.

As to the hardware - there's a lot of hardware info in the Files sections. People posted photos and info on their builds of PHSNA and some people altered it as they saw fit into different configurations. There's also info on Return Loss Bridges, power calibration circuits, a measurement receiver, a crystal test fixture, methods of calculating frequency compensation parameters, examples of measurements made using PHSNA and so on.

So yes, there's a confusing mass of good info in the Files section.

And as I said earlier, Jim N5IB designed a lot of variations on the basic board set. None are really obsolete, they just allow using different hardware.

The power detector board with its AD8307 log power chip has remained mostly the same. The sandwich board of main board, Arduino board and DDS board has many variations.

But I didn't intend to describe all of that here. I just want to point to a PDF that Jim did that does a pretty good job of sorting out all this info. It's at the top level of the Files section, and I found it on page 4 (items 61-68) of the Files section. The file is called PHSNA_FAQ_Sheet.PDF.

It explains a lot of the hardware variations, tells what is meant by Type I and Type II DDS modules and answers many questions. It even points to where to find the software which I described in my previous email.

So I'd recommend starting with that file.

73-

Nick, WA5BDU

Re: Ver. 1.42 and crystal measurement

goldeaglemex strathman
 

Nick
Not sure of the date of your post but I am pleased to see that the PHSNA project has been saved. I came to the project late, missed the boards, etc but saved all the documentation and parts needed for the project. Assembled and tested several modules, located 3 HP435 power meters ($5.00 ea), very well designed enclosures.
Used 1 for the power meter and power supplies and another for the sweep generator and receiver. Got waylaid with chemo and radiation, got that behind me successfully and and now wish to complete the project . I intend to use the PHSNA to characterize the crystals for the receiver. So, looks like there will be enough of the community left to get me over the humps. Thanks for all the work you put into the PHSNA.

Ron, K6DNV. First licensed 1957 as KN6DNV now Extra.

Where software is found

Nick Kennedy
 

We received this message under the "New Members" topic:

"
The various versions of the software and hardware files are not always clearly identified. It would be helpful if someone who knows the project well could sort the most up to date material into a folder.
Cheers
Alan
VK5ZFj

"

First I'll talk about the software. I've had to do some reviews since it's been a while since I've done much with PHSNA.

There are two software versions. The first was the Terminal Version. This version communicated with the user via a serial terminal. Therefore it was independent of your operating system. The Windows version added a few features but if you don't use Windows, this would be the one for you.

The Arduino source code for the Terminal Version is in the folder called Current Software. This folder contains a zip file containing the Arduino source files. I'm not sure why I have Morse.ino separately, but I think it is needed so download it plus the zip file and put the contents of all into your Arduino folder.

Next comes the Windows version which is the version most used. The files are in the folder called "Windows PHSNA".

There is a Windows executable file which doesn't require installation - just copy it to your PC and run it. The folder has an archival revision or two. The latest is Windows.exe, revision 1.42.

The Windows version of PHSNA interacts with the Arduino using a much simpler Arduino program. There are two source files for the Arduino and note that we are still in the "Windows PHSNA" folder. The files are PHSNA_VB.ino and Morse.ino.

Again, there's an archival version in the folder. The one you want is PHSNA_VB.ino revision 1.7. This file is marked as being "for version 1.41" of the Windows file. But it did not change when the Windows program incremented from 1.41 to 1.42, so it's still the latest file.

There's more info in this folder, including instructions on compiling the Arduino source code, plus a User's Guide for rev. 1.42 which I recommend as containing a lot of useful info.

*******

Now, for the hardware - I won't try to provide details yet although I think there's a file done by Jim N5IB I can point to when I get it located. Things are a bit different with hardware because with software, there's just one latest version (one for terminal, one for Windows), but with the hardware there are a lot of ways of doing it. Jim designed a number of variations on the board(s), one for each of two types of DDS boards being sold on eBay at the time, and one for the Midnight Science/NJQRP DDS-60, and also different Arduino boards were accommodated. So a lot depends on which board set you got from Jim, or if you are just rolling your own.

But I do hope to come up with some pointers to summarize that info.

73-

Nick, WA5BDU

Re: PHSNA - New Members

Alan Jamieson
 

Hello
It's good to see the group active again, especially as I've just begun to complete my PHSNA after a long hiatus.
I had a problem getting the software to compile until finding that the Morse.ino that's in the software file was the problem. However It does compile OK with the version in the Windows file.
The various versions of the software and hardware files are not always clearly identified. It would be helpful if someone who knows the project well could sort the most up to date material into a folder.
Cheers
Alan
VK5ZFj

Re: Ver. 1.42 and crystal measurement

Ted KX4OM
 

Okay, guys thanks for the replies. I'll go down to the lab in the basement and replace the 1.40 files with the 1.42 files; I have them in separate directories to be able to rename their "backup" status folder to the PHSNA_VB folder to get them to work.

I'm sure it isn't hardware related because 1.40 works as the previous 1.3x versions did as well. I'm pretty sure that the crystal sweep coefficients1.42 parameters.txt are ones that I did when I first installed 1.42, but I'm not certain. Creeping old age, maybe :) All I know for sure is that they are not the example coefficients from the 1.42 release. The structure of the parameters.txt file checks out as to the fields required for the application to work. I will first run a "Response Sweep" on a crystal and confirm that it works as it did on the 1.42 a few days ago when I had problems wirh "crystal Meas". I'll try to measure a crystal, and then I'll do a full calibration from scratch as anticipate it won't find the peak, with the same error message.

I'll report back on the results. By the way, last night I created and uploaded a photo album, "KX4OM PHSNA photos" yesterday with photos of my equipment I built. The original log power meter is one I build about 15 years ago, and the new one is an upgraded unit with 6 AA cells and a completely copper shielded enclosure of the PC board and RG-316 including the analog A/D output. The meter is a surplus 50 uA Weston new old stock I've had for several years. The case is an unusual vertical form factor power supply case from an old Dell, as I recall. I use old PC supply cases for a lot of my projects. Both lpms read the the same. As a result of the PHSNA project, I upgraded the old lpm with an op-amp to calibrate the meter with a scale. I removed the old RadioShack meter and replaced it with another 1 mA one that I could remove the generic scale and glue a dB scale on. I have some more details on both of the lpms as well as the other PHSNA gear on my website at https://www.qsl.net/kx4om/

Ted, KX4OM

Re: Ver. 1.42 and crystal measurement

EB4APL
 

Hi,

Nick has a better memory that me and he is right, v 1.40 and v1.42 parameters.txt are not compatible because the later has a second set of polynomial coefficients, this one for the crystal measurement accessory compensation. You can follow the procedure for calibrating it in the Users Guide.Note that you can either edit the parameters.txt with the new values or you can edit it within the program in the calibration menu.

Best regards,

Ignacio EB4APL

El 16/05/2020 a las 14:05, Nick Kennedy escribió:
Hi Ted,

It seems you're aware that Ignacio added another set of polynomial
constants to parameters.txt in revision 1.42, so I can't blame that. Yes,
you may have read in the User's Guide about "cheating" on the parameters
just to get the system working. I don't remember the step by step process,
but if you just read the dBm value somewhere in mid-range and "pretend"
that it's the same everywhere can calculate constants from that, you'll get
constants that "work" but don't properly compensate for changes in the
generator and crystal test fixture with frequency. I assume the higher
coefficients will come out zero, but don't remember for sure. Probably the
constant value C0 will equal the dBm value you measured at mid-band and all
other coefficients will be zero.

Anyway though ... you are getting the message that PHSNA can't find a peak.
In a case like that I'd do "normal" response sweep around the crystal
frequency and look at the plot to verify that there IS a peak. Maybe use 10
Hz steps, at least initially. If there's not one, maybe you have a hardware
issue. If there is one, make sure its frequency is consistent with the
scanning range you are telling PHSNA to use when you go into the crystal
test mode.

Good luck & keep us posted.

Nick, WA5BDU


On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 7:22 PM Ted KX4OM <wirehead73@...> wrote:

Welcome to the new moderators!

I've been measuring a lot of crystals the past week, about a hundred in
all. About 50 in 8.192 HC49/U from a batch of 100 of which I had measured
previously, and about 50 8.386 HC49/US that Harold Smith, KE6TI gave me a
few years ago, about 100 in all. The latter have an average Q of around
200,000 while the 8.162 ones are about 100,000. The PHSNA makes it so easy,
much moreso than my homebrew K8IQY PVXO and G3UUR rigs.

Here is my problem: A year ago, I upgraded to Rev 1.42 and used it to
check my 40m dipole to set its length. That replaced my G5RV. Great, no
problem. I had also used it to sweep some Heathkit SSB and CW crystal
filters. That's all I used it for. I *think* I did the new crystal
measurement frequency polynomial coefficients correctly when I installed
1.42; the ones in parameters.txt aren't Nick's from the 1.42 files. Last
week when I started to measure the crystals, it would search for a long
time and then would send an error message "Unable to find peak RF
frequency" or something like that. I reinspected the parameters.txt file
and everything looked okay. I ended up saving 1.42 to a bak directory and
replaced it with 1.40, the last version I had used to do crystals back in
2018. What is odd is that I could do a response sweep in 1.42 on a crystal
and get the peak frequency, but I couldn't sweep a jumpered holder in the
standard PHSNA crystal test board (not using the amplifer, and always using
an additional 4 dB attenuator from the SNA.

From reading the docs, I think I understand that I could put in some value
for the five coefficients in 1.42 that aren't real, and that would allow
the crystal measure to function as if it was a later version. Any ideas?

Ted, KX4OM



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Re: Ver. 1.42 and crystal measurement

Nick Kennedy
 

Hi Ted,

It seems you're aware that Ignacio added another set of polynomial
constants to parameters.txt in revision 1.42, so I can't blame that. Yes,
you may have read in the User's Guide about "cheating" on the parameters
just to get the system working. I don't remember the step by step process,
but if you just read the dBm value somewhere in mid-range and "pretend"
that it's the same everywhere can calculate constants from that, you'll get
constants that "work" but don't properly compensate for changes in the
generator and crystal test fixture with frequency. I assume the higher
coefficients will come out zero, but don't remember for sure. Probably the
constant value C0 will equal the dBm value you measured at mid-band and all
other coefficients will be zero.

Anyway though ... you are getting the message that PHSNA can't find a peak.
In a case like that I'd do "normal" response sweep around the crystal
frequency and look at the plot to verify that there IS a peak. Maybe use 10
Hz steps, at least initially. If there's not one, maybe you have a hardware
issue. If there is one, make sure its frequency is consistent with the
scanning range you are telling PHSNA to use when you go into the crystal
test mode.

Good luck & keep us posted.

Nick, WA5BDU

On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 7:22 PM Ted KX4OM <wirehead73@...> wrote:

Welcome to the new moderators!

I've been measuring a lot of crystals the past week, about a hundred in
all. About 50 in 8.192 HC49/U from a batch of 100 of which I had measured
previously, and about 50 8.386 HC49/US that Harold Smith, KE6TI gave me a
few years ago, about 100 in all. The latter have an average Q of around
200,000 while the 8.162 ones are about 100,000. The PHSNA makes it so easy,
much moreso than my homebrew K8IQY PVXO and G3UUR rigs.

Here is my problem: A year ago, I upgraded to Rev 1.42 and used it to
check my 40m dipole to set its length. That replaced my G5RV. Great, no
problem. I had also used it to sweep some Heathkit SSB and CW crystal
filters. That's all I used it for. I *think* I did the new crystal
measurement frequency polynomial coefficients correctly when I installed
1.42; the ones in parameters.txt aren't Nick's from the 1.42 files. Last
week when I started to measure the crystals, it would search for a long
time and then would send an error message "Unable to find peak RF
frequency" or something like that. I reinspected the parameters.txt file
and everything looked okay. I ended up saving 1.42 to a bak directory and
replaced it with 1.40, the last version I had used to do crystals back in
2018. What is odd is that I could do a response sweep in 1.42 on a crystal
and get the peak frequency, but I couldn't sweep a jumpered holder in the
standard PHSNA crystal test board (not using the amplifer, and always using
an additional 4 dB attenuator from the SNA.

From reading the docs, I think I understand that I could put in some value
for the five coefficients in 1.42 that aren't real, and that would allow
the crystal measure to function as if it was a later version. Any ideas?

Ted, KX4OM



Re: Ver. 1.42 and crystal measurement

EB4APL
 

Hi Ted,

The parameters.txt file included with the distribution are an example
and must be replaced by one that is matched to your hardware. I believe
that there were not changes between versions 1.40 and 1.42 in the
crystal measurement code and I always use my parameters from the
previous version unless there is a change in the number of parameters.

Anyway to be sure do a full calibration and measure again.

You can also perform a sanity check, sweep the crystal on its fixture
using the normal sweep function and see what happens. Start with a
couple kHz low up to another couple high and when you see the peak
narrow the limits and use a 1 Hz resolution.

I'm not sure if I understand you correctly and it is what you did, but
maybe there is a problem with the test jig.

Please keep us informed about your findings.

73 de Ignacio, EB4APL


El 16/05/2020 a las 2:12, Ted KX4OM escribió:
Welcome to the new moderators!

I've been measuring a lot of crystals the past week, about a hundred in all. About 50 in 8.192 HC49/U from a batch of 100 of which I had measured previously, and about 50 8.386 HC49/US that Harold Smith, KE6TI gave me a few years ago, about 100 in all. The latter have an average Q of around 200,000 while the 8.162 ones are about 100,000. The PHSNA makes it so easy, much moreso than my homebrew K8IQY PVXO and G3UUR rigs.

Here is my problem: A year ago, I upgraded to Rev 1.42 and used it to check my 40m dipole to set its length. That replaced my G5RV. Great, no problem. I had also used it to sweep some Heathkit SSB and CW crystal filters. That's all I used it for. I *think* I did the new crystal measurement frequency polynomial coefficients correctly when I installed 1.42; the ones in parameters.txt aren't Nick's from the 1.42 files. Last week when I started to measure the crystals, it would search for a long time and then would send an error message "Unable to find peak RF frequency" or something like that. I reinspected the parameters.txt file and everything looked okay. I ended up saving 1.42 to a bak directory and replaced it with 1.40, the last version I had used to do crystals back in 2018. What is odd is that I could do a response sweep in 1.42 on a crystal and get the peak frequency, but I couldn't sweep a jumpered holder in the standard PHSNA crystal test board (not using the amplifer, and always using an additional 4 dB attenuator from the SNA.

From reading the docs, I think I understand that I could put in some value for the five coefficients in 1.42 that aren't real, and that would allow the crystal measure to function as if it was a later version. Any ideas?
Ted, KX4OM


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Re: AD9850 module pc board

Glenn
 

Thanks Ted, yes its a bit of pain to do double sided. but if you can get the negatives for each side lined up of course, its a bit easier.

Here's an example of an AD9850 board i made some time back,. It's about 1 x 1.5" and is the 2nd LO in a HB Transceiver, the Picastar. I made a toner transfer board initially, then had some made in China.
This board actually has a 8pin Motorola micro on it, which pre-programs the AD9850 to suit the frequency required in the project.

glenn vk3pe

Re: AD9850 module pc board

Terry VK5TM
 

I have the EMRD files (but not the photo's) and can't find the CO6BG pcb in a quick search through them.

I'll have a proper look later.

Terry VK5TM

Re: AD9850 module pc board

Ted KX4OM
 

Glenn and the group,
Not the gerbers, but the photo of a homebrew two-sided PCB apparently made by CO6BG, November 2014. The photos were from a Yahoo group, and my screen capture of the Files list does not show the header for the group. I managed to save files from the qrp-tech group, but if it was the EMRFD group, I don't have the files.

The board looks like it was made with toner transfer or sensitized film photo method. I'll search some more to try to find further info. From my experience, doing a toner transfer two-sided is tedious, especially with a board that small.

Ted, KX4OM

Ver. 1.42 and crystal measurement

Ted KX4OM
 

Welcome to the new moderators!

I've been measuring a lot of crystals the past week, about a hundred in all. About 50 in 8.192 HC49/U from a batch of 100 of which I had measured previously, and about 50 8.386 HC49/US that Harold Smith, KE6TI gave me a few years ago, about 100 in all. The latter have an average Q of around 200,000 while the 8.162 ones are about 100,000. The PHSNA makes it so easy, much moreso than my homebrew K8IQY PVXO and G3UUR rigs.

Here is my problem: A year ago, I upgraded to Rev 1.42 and used it to check my 40m dipole to set its length. That replaced my G5RV. Great, no problem. I had also used it to sweep some Heathkit SSB and CW crystal filters. That's all I used it for. I *think* I did the new crystal measurement frequency polynomial coefficients correctly when I installed 1.42; the ones in parameters.txt aren't Nick's from the 1.42 files. Last week when I started to measure the crystals, it would search for a long time and then would send an error message "Unable to find peak RF frequency" or something like that. I reinspected the parameters.txt file and everything looked okay. I ended up saving 1.42 to a bak directory and replaced it with 1.40, the last version I had used to do crystals back in 2018. What is odd is that I could do a response sweep in 1.42 on a crystal and get the peak frequency, but I couldn't sweep a jumpered holder in the standard PHSNA crystal test board (not using the amplifer, and always using an additional 4 dB attenuator from the SNA.

From reading the docs, I think I understand that I could put in some value for the five coefficients in 1.42 that aren't real, and that would allow the crystal measure to function as if it was a later version. Any ideas?

Ted, KX4OM

Re: AD9850 module pc board

Glenn
 

Hi Jim, I guess that 'one person' is me. Did you manage to build any of the boards?
Glenn
vk3pe


Does anyone know of gerbers for a AD985x module or a Si5351 module so I can make my own modules since already have the main chip. I only know of one person that had gerbers for one of the modules. Does anyone know of others? I do wish designers would put the module circuit on the pc board. They could still add the pins/sockets for the modules and accommodate both worlds without increasing board real estate.

On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 03:44 PM, Jim Pruitt wrote:


Does anyone know of gerbers for a AD985x module or a Si5351 module so I can
make my own modules since already have the main chip.  I only know of one
person that had gerbers for one of the modules. Does anyone know of others? 
I do wish designers would put the module circuit on the pc board.  They could
still add the pins/sockets for the modules and accommodate both worlds without
increasing board real estate.

Re: AD9850 module pc board

Jim Pruitt
 

Don, that experimenter board takes...one of the modules.  This discussion I had hoped would be about how to make my own modules since I do not trust the quality of the Chines modules being sold at 10 times the price they were 3 or 4 years ago.  I have the DDS chips to put on them and I hate to see them go to waste and being on a fixed income it seemed like a good idea to at least try to make my own.

Thank you.

Jim Pruitt
WA7DUY

On 5/13/2020 11:24 PM, Don Vosper via groups.io wrote:
Have you seen the info  in the files section regarding the DDS experimenter's board?
Don m5aky