Date   
Re: AD9850 module pc board

EB4APL
 

Hi Jim,

The PHSNA project hardware has a a lot of variants. The main one used a DDS60 module from AmQRP. This used the AD9851 DDS and it is sold assembled or in kit form at http://midnightdesignsolutions.com. When I built mine the kit did not included the DDS chip because you could order free samples from Analog Devices as I did. This module is quite better than the Chinese ones, but it is far more expensive.

I can't speak by the designer, but I think that the main reason for using the Chinese modules in later versions of the PHSNA was price. When the project appeared and even several years after, these modules were far cheaper than buying the chip itself even directly from Analog Devices. I don't know the reason why these modules were so cheap, but I suppose that they began as excess inventory purchased from a manufacturer who used them as a part of other equipment (antenna analyzer perhaps?) and the module manufacturer could continue production after seen how well they were selling them. Two main versions were available with two different pinouts that were named Type I and Type II, there were PHSNA boards designed for each version. Also were modules with the AD9850 and the AD9851, the same PHSNA firmware and software could be used with both. The current price of these Chinese modules is probably due to a reduced supply. Offer and demand.

The reason for using an Arduino was in the the same line. The first version used and Arduino One and later it was changed to Arduino Nano that was cheaper, better and smaller, and directly pluggable on the main board. These micros were so cheap that it was no reason to include the chip in the main board. In fact you need other components such as the crystal, the serial to USB converter and others which added complexity to the building and purchasing.  Also the Arduino has an IDE that is free and very easy to use. Even if you don't do any development, it is needed to load new versions of the firmware in the chip. I know that the Arduino IDE can be used with the AtMega chip without being mounted in an Arduino board, but you need to duplicate the environment in your board and the most difficult part for the standard user is to load the Arduino bootstrap in the virgin chip, you need a programmer for it (even other Arduino can be configured as a programmer). By the way, if you study the main board, it is nothing more that an interconnection board with some regulators, connectors and provision for options, extremely simple.

There is a big difference if a project is intended to become a manufactured product to be sold ready to use, a kit or just leave to the builder the task of procuring the parts. The PHSNA project provided a lot of information such as schematics,  BOMs and provided the PCBs. The builder had to purchase the components from the usual sources. The designer also provided free the firmware, the software and the manuals.

Other projects, such as the now popular nanoVNA, are intended to be sold as a manufactured product. Everything is integrated in a compact PCB and sold assembled, but this project could be not made as a kit or a PCB, it would be difficult for the user to get the parts, difficult to assemble, and certainly more expensive.

About using a Si5351: there is a version of the PHSNA that can use this synthesizer in a plugin module and these modules are very cheap (about $8 or less) and you avoid the task of soldering the tiny chip. I do not recommend using this kind of synthesizer for this project because its output is a square wave, so plenty of odd harmonics. The PHSNA detector is a wide band one, it goes up to 500 MHz so if you are measuring some thing, say a filter, the readings are the sum of the desired frequency component plus all its harmonics winch are indistinguishable and can not be separated by the detector. for this kind of signal source you need a tuned detector, normally based in a superheterodyne receiver.  The DDS is a sine wave generator, a much better option for using it with this type of detector. The Si5351 is advantageous used in the nanoVNA, but there the detector is a superheterodyne SDR receiver.

Best regards and 73,

Ignacio EB4APL

El 14/05/2020 a las 7:44, Jim Pruitt escribió:
Hello Nick.

I will see if I can get some activity started then.

I see a lot of projects that use the AD9850 and AD9851 but they all seem to use the module that was so cheap from China 6 years ago but is now up around $25 each and of questionable quality.

It has long since annoyed me that designers use the module (either the AD9850 or a Arduino Nano, etc) when just the chip will do. This is true for the Si5351 as well as the AD985x and Arduino. Often the only thing actually needed for the circuit is the DDS or PLL chip or cpu and the other things on the modules are superfluous.  The reason it annoys me is because I have a stack of AD9850 and AD9851 and AD9854 dds chips and I bought 25 of the Si5351 chips from Digikey a few months ago but I have not found pc boards to accept them and have no desire to spend $25+ for a AD9851 module that may be nothing more than a floor sweeping AD9850.

Does anyone know of gerbers for a AD985x module or a Si5351 module so I can make my own modules since already have the main chip.  I only know of one person that had gerbers for one of the modules. Does anyone know of others?  I do wish designers would put the module circuit on the pc board.  They could still add the pins/sockets for the modules and accommodate both worlds without increasing board real estate.

Is there any discussion on the subject?

Thank you.

Jim Pruitt
WA7DUY


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Re: AD9850 module pc board

Nick Kennedy
 

It's different for everyone, but I'm not sure I'm up to soldering in any
more TSSOP chips. I've done them successfully with an iron and with a heat
gun but don't want to press my luck going forward.

As for the Si5351a, I've soldered in a few on boards built by others and on
one I did myself using toner transfer. But when I found that you could get
them in a module form for $7 or so, that was a great day. In general, yes -
more fun to do it yourself. But these tiny modules have a 5 V to 3.3 V
regulator plus the 3.x volt to TTL level shifters on board. Add in the
those little coax connectors I can't think of the name of right now, plus
pins for the control logic and it's a sweet deal.

(Is it SMA? Anyway, I usually solder mini-coax right to the pads.)

73-

Nick, WA5BDU

On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 12:44 AM Jim Pruitt <jpruitt67@...> wrote:

Hello Nick.

I will see if I can get some activity started then.

I see a lot of projects that use the AD9850 and AD9851 but they all seem
to use the module that was so cheap from China 6 years ago but is now up
around $25 each and of questionable quality.

It has long since annoyed me that designers use the module (either the
AD9850 or a Arduino Nano, etc) when just the chip will do. This is true
for the Si5351 as well as the AD985x and Arduino. Often the only thing
actually needed for the circuit is the DDS or PLL chip or cpu and the
other things on the modules are superfluous. The reason it annoys me is
because I have a stack of AD9850 and AD9851 and AD9854 dds chips and I
bought 25 of the Si5351 chips from Digikey a few months ago but I have
not found pc boards to accept them and have no desire to spend $25+ for
a AD9851 module that may be nothing more than a floor sweeping AD9850.

Does anyone know of gerbers for a AD985x module or a Si5351 module so I
can make my own modules since already have the main chip. I only know
of one person that had gerbers for one of the modules. Does anyone know
of others? I do wish designers would put the module circuit on the pc
board. They could still add the pins/sockets for the modules and
accommodate both worlds without increasing board real estate.

Is there any discussion on the subject?

Thank you.

Jim Pruitt
WA7DUY




Re: AD9850 module pc board

Dave
 

Jim:
  I have Gerbers for a Si5351.  But, you can get the boards with the Si5351 fro a number of vendors for $7 or less.
The AD9951 thru 9954 are much better than the AD9851.  I sell a board for them at
<http://wb6dhw.com/For_Sale.html#995x>

Dave - WB6DHW

On 5/13/2020 10:44 PM, Jim Pruitt wrote:
Hello Nick.

I will see if I can get some activity started then.

I see a lot of projects that use the AD9850 and AD9851 but they all seem to use the module that was so cheap from China 6 years ago but is now up around $25 each and of questionable quality.

It has long since annoyed me that designers use the module (either the AD9850 or a Arduino Nano, etc) when just the chip will do. This is true for the Si5351 as well as the AD985x and Arduino. Often the only thing actually needed for the circuit is the DDS or PLL chip or cpu and the other things on the modules are superfluous.  The reason it annoys me is because I have a stack of AD9850 and AD9851 and AD9854 dds chips and I bought 25 of the Si5351 chips from Digikey a few months ago but I have not found pc boards to accept them and have no desire to spend $25+ for a AD9851 module that may be nothing more than a floor sweeping AD9850.

Does anyone know of gerbers for a AD985x module or a Si5351 module so I can make my own modules since already have the main chip.  I only know of one person that had gerbers for one of the modules. Does anyone know of others?  I do wish designers would put the module circuit on the pc board.  They could still add the pins/sockets for the modules and accommodate both worlds without increasing board real estate.

Is there any discussion on the subject?

Thank you.

Jim Pruitt
WA7DUY




Re: AD9850 module pc board

Don Vosper
 

Have you seen the info  in the files section regarding the DDS experimenter's board?
Don m5aky

Re: AD9850 module pc board

Clifford Heath
 

Why don't you design a PCB yourself? If you can solder these devices happily, I'm sure that Kicad is not beyond you.
Put the AVR on the same board to avoid the need for an Arduino, while you're at it.

Clifford Heath.

On 14 May 2020, at 3:44 pm, Jim Pruitt <jpruitt67@...> wrote:

Hello Nick.

I will see if I can get some activity started then.

I see a lot of projects that use the AD9850 and AD9851 but they all seem to use the module that was so cheap from China 6 years ago but is now up around $25 each and of questionable quality.

It has long since annoyed me that designers use the module (either the AD9850 or a Arduino Nano, etc) when just the chip will do. This is true for the Si5351 as well as the AD985x and Arduino. Often the only thing actually needed for the circuit is the DDS or PLL chip or cpu and the other things on the modules are superfluous. The reason it annoys me is because I have a stack of AD9850 and AD9851 and AD9854 dds chips and I bought 25 of the Si5351 chips from Digikey a few months ago but I have not found pc boards to accept them and have no desire to spend $25+ for a AD9851 module that may be nothing more than a floor sweeping AD9850.

Does anyone know of gerbers for a AD985x module or a Si5351 module so I can make my own modules since already have the main chip. I only know of one person that had gerbers for one of the modules. Does anyone know of others? I do wish designers would put the module circuit on the pc board. They could still add the pins/sockets for the modules and accommodate both worlds without increasing board real estate.

Is there any discussion on the subject?

Thank you.

Jim Pruitt
WA7DUY



Re: AD9850 module pc board

William Heller
 

I have to agree the main reason the choice is the apparent cost savings you
can buy the complete board from china for less than the chip alone from a
reliable vendor here in the states. I am a retired embedded prorocessor
engineer and still have access to my design tools if you are interested we
could work together to do the required design work to make boards.

On Wed, May 13, 2020, 11:44 PM Jim Pruitt <jpruitt67@...> wrote:

Hello Nick.

I will see if I can get some activity started then.

I see a lot of projects that use the AD9850 and AD9851 but they all seem
to use the module that was so cheap from China 6 years ago but is now up
around $25 each and of questionable quality.

It has long since annoyed me that designers use the module (either the
AD9850 or a Arduino Nano, etc) when just the chip will do. This is true
for the Si5351 as well as the AD985x and Arduino. Often the only thing
actually needed for the circuit is the DDS or PLL chip or cpu and the
other things on the modules are superfluous. The reason it annoys me is
because I have a stack of AD9850 and AD9851 and AD9854 dds chips and I
bought 25 of the Si5351 chips from Digikey a few months ago but I have
not found pc boards to accept them and have no desire to spend $25+ for
a AD9851 module that may be nothing more than a floor sweeping AD9850.

Does anyone know of gerbers for a AD985x module or a Si5351 module so I
can make my own modules since already have the main chip. I only know
of one person that had gerbers for one of the modules. Does anyone know
of others? I do wish designers would put the module circuit on the pc
board. They could still add the pins/sockets for the modules and
accommodate both worlds without increasing board real estate.

Is there any discussion on the subject?

Thank you.

Jim Pruitt
WA7DUY




AD9850 module pc board

Jim Pruitt
 

Hello Nick.

I will see if I can get some activity started then.

I see a lot of projects that use the AD9850 and AD9851 but they all seem to use the module that was so cheap from China 6 years ago but is now up around $25 each and of questionable quality.

It has long since annoyed me that designers use the module (either the AD9850 or a Arduino Nano, etc) when just the chip will do. This is true for the Si5351 as well as the AD985x and Arduino. Often the only thing actually needed for the circuit is the DDS or PLL chip or cpu and the other things on the modules are superfluous.  The reason it annoys me is because I have a stack of AD9850 and AD9851 and AD9854 dds chips and I bought 25 of the Si5351 chips from Digikey a few months ago but I have not found pc boards to accept them and have no desire to spend $25+ for a AD9851 module that may be nothing more than a floor sweeping AD9850.

Does anyone know of gerbers for a AD985x module or a Si5351 module so I can make my own modules since already have the main chip.  I only know of one person that had gerbers for one of the modules. Does anyone know of others?  I do wish designers would put the module circuit on the pc board.  They could still add the pins/sockets for the modules and accommodate both worlds without increasing board real estate.

Is there any discussion on the subject?

Thank you.

Jim Pruitt
WA7DUY

Re: PHSNA - New Members

Nick Kennedy
 

Well, nothing specific but there's a lot of good content on there. I think
a lot of those recently signed up came from the nanoVNA group where Ignacio
EA1APL (I think) had mentioned some of the resources available.

There had been no posts since December which surprised me and someone
suggested the group had been shut down so I contacted N5IB and he said not
so. But he had asked for help on the moderation duty and I said I'd be glad
to do that.

73-

Nick

On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 4:04 PM Jim Pruitt <jpruitt67@...> wrote:

Hello Nick.

Nice to see you signed on as a moderator and I assume co owner of the
group.

Do you have any plans for generating interest and traffic on the list?

Thank you.

Jim Pruitt
WA7DUY


On 5/13/2020 8:10 AM, Nick Kennedy wrote:
Hello PHSNA-

I've recently become one of the moderators for the group. I note that
we've had 18 new members sign on in this month. You should now have access
to the messages and files in this group.

If you decide to post, note that the first post is moderated. I'll try
to approve any such posts ASAP and you'll have free access afterwards.

Regards,

Nick, WA5BDU





Re: PHSNA - New Members

Jim Pruitt
 

Hello Nick.

Nice to see you signed on as a moderator and I assume co owner of the group.

Do you have any plans for generating interest and traffic on the list?

Thank you.

Jim Pruitt
WA7DUY

On 5/13/2020 8:10 AM, Nick Kennedy wrote:
Hello PHSNA-

I've recently become one of the moderators for the group. I note that we've had 18 new members sign on in this month. You should now have access to the messages and files in this group.

If you decide to post, note that the first post is moderated. I'll try to approve any such posts ASAP and you'll have free access afterwards.

Regards,

Nick, WA5BDU

PHSNA - New Members

Nick Kennedy
 

Hello PHSNA-

I've recently become one of the moderators for the group. I note that we've had 18 new members sign on in this month. You should now have access to the messages and files in this group.

If you decide to post, note that the first post is moderated. I'll try to approve any such posts ASAP and you'll have free access afterwards.

Regards,

Nick, WA5BDU

Re: AD8307 Compensation frequencies

Roberto
 

I'm sorry I read the message only now I wanted to try it at the moment not tested it but it seems interesting what do you think?
Roberto

Re: AD8307 Compensation frequencies

DaveH52
 

Have you done similar work with the AD8302?

Re: AD8307 Compensation frequencies

DaveH52
 

Thank you!

AD8307 Compensation frequencies

Roberto
 

all groups member
I report this interesting experience of DL6GL
ad8307 comparison
translated from German to English


https://translate.google.it/translate?hl=&sl=de&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fdl6gl.de%2Fad8307-frequenzkompensation

link original
https://dl6gl.de/ad8307-frequenzkompensation

73 iw5bsf Roberto

Re: Group Milestone

William Kimber
 

Thanks Jim for all that you and Jerry have done.

Cheers,

Will,

ZL1TAO

On 22/12/19 6:40 am, N5IB wrote:
A little while ago Dan, AI2M, joined this group as its 1000th member.
Would have been hard to fathom that back on 10 Sept 2013 when Jerry, W5JH (SK) and I started this little project.

It's been great fun, but I'd like to pass the reins on to another volunteer.
So I'm seeking someone to take on the list owner duties.
For this group its been pretty benign, just approve a membership request or a posting now and again, seldom more than one or two a week.

If you'd like to volunteer, you can reply privately if you wish, either a private reply here, or to <n5ib (at) juno (dot) com>
I would simply change your group membership status to "owner."
I'd nominally continue in "owner" status as well but would be in the manner of a "silent partner."

73
Jim, N5IB


Re: Group Milestone

K5ESS
 

Jim,
I'd be glad to take ownership of the group.
Mike
K5ESS

-----Original Message-----
From: PHSNA@groups.io [mailto:PHSNA@groups.io] On Behalf Of N5IB
Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2019 11:40 AM
To: PHSNA@groups.io
Subject: [PHSNA] Group Milestone

A little while ago Dan, AI2M, joined this group as its 1000th member.
Would have been hard to fathom that back on 10 Sept 2013 when Jerry, W5JH (SK) and I started this little project.

It's been great fun, but I'd like to pass the reins on to another volunteer.
So I'm seeking someone to take on the list owner duties.
For this group its been pretty benign, just approve a membership request or a posting now and again, seldom more than one or two a week.

If you'd like to volunteer, you can reply privately if you wish, either a private reply here, or to <n5ib (at) juno (dot) com>
I would simply change your group membership status to "owner."
I'd nominally continue in "owner" status as well but would be in the manner of a "silent partner."

73
Jim, N5IB

Group Milestone

N5IB
 

A little while ago Dan, AI2M, joined this group as its 1000th member.
Would have been hard to fathom that back on 10 Sept 2013 when Jerry, W5JH (SK) and I started this little project.

It's been great fun, but I'd like to pass the reins on to another volunteer.
So I'm seeking someone to take on the list owner duties.
For this group its been pretty benign, just approve a membership request or a posting now and again, seldom more than one or two a week.

If you'd like to volunteer, you can reply privately if you wish, either a private reply here, or to <n5ib (at) juno (dot) com>
I would simply change your group membership status to "owner."
I'd nominally continue in "owner" status as well but would be in the manner of a "silent partner."

73
Jim, N5IB

Re: Yahoo Groups download

Terry VK5TM
 

I tried that a few weeks ago and the eventual message back was "Nothing to download" so don't rely on it to save something you desperately need.

Terry VK5TM

Yahoo Groups download

DuWayne Schmidlkofer
 

With Yahoo Groups shutting down, and not all of those I subscribe to moving over to groups .io. I wanted to grab a copy of the existing Yahoo Group data.
I found directions on how to grab a download of all your Yahoo grooups at
https://www.theverge.com/2019/11/4/20917500/yahoo-group-data-download-how-to
It took about a week before I received a message that everything was ready to download. Everything from all my subscribed groups ,messages,files,photos were included in a couple large zip files.
DuWayne KV4QB

OT: Yahoo Groups is going away

Terry VK5TM
 

Yahoo Groups is going away.

If you need any files, photo's or other data from any group you are member of, get it now, by the end of December it will all be gone.

Terry VK5TM