Behringer Voice Chips


Dennis Barrington
 

Hi,

New to Group.

Being new, I'm interested in SYSEX, WAV or MIDI patches for Matrix 1000, 6, 6R
And can share some studio made ones.

That said, I can't see earlier messages, but was happy to see this notice:

Which means we won't have to buy used Voice chips in the future, one hopes.  Maybe the current $40+ price tag can go much lower for a chip?  and no fear of the NOS going dead b/c of their age, too.  I was about to drop money on a few backups, but will wait for Behringer's batch.

Has this been discussed?  If so, sorry for the repost!
-db


Nicole Massey
 

Have you seen the updated chip files in the files section here? There's been
an initiative to update the chips of the Matrix 1000 to edit parameters
using Registered Parameter Numbers (RPN). The most recent one I've heard
about doesn't do this with matrix modulation, but everything else is
accessible using the MSB/LSB controller combination and then the CC6 (Data
Slider MSB) and CC38 (Data Slider LSB) to change the value of the parameter.
This makes programming the non-modulation parameters a lot easier and also
makes real time control a lot easier and faster.
There might be some value in updating the Navigator to handle this kind of
stuff. I don't do code, so it's outside my wheelhouse, but there are a lot
of talented folks in this community that might be able to do something like
this.

Sent from my HAL 9000 in transit to Jupiter

-----Original Message-----
From: Oberheim@groups.io [mailto:Oberheim@groups.io] On Behalf Of Dennis
Barrington
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2020 12:40 PM
To: Oberheim@groups.io
Subject: [Oberheim] Behringer Voice Chips

Hi,

New to Group.

Being new, I'm interested in SYSEX, WAV or MIDI patches for Matrix 1000, 6,
6R And can share some studio made ones.

That said, I can't see earlier messages, but was happy to see this notice:
https://www.synthtopia.com/content/2020/07/08/behringer-clones-curtis-cem339
6-analog-synth-on-a-chip/

Which means we won't have to buy used Voice chips in the future, one hopes.
Maybe the current $40+ price tag can go much lower for a chip? and no fear
of the NOS going dead b/c of their age, too. I was about to drop money on a
few backups, but will wait for Behringer's batch.

Has this been discussed? If so, sorry for the repost!
-db


Krokkie
 

Hello Dennis and welcome. Congratulations on being the first joiner here to post a message.

In the mad rush to back up the old Yahoo site before they took things offline I implemented crude (and cheap) methods to save and chronologically sort what I could of the old correspondence.
Old messages from the Yahoo Oberheim group from 2004 to 2019 have been dumped into a PDF file which you can access in the files section:

https://groups.io/g/Oberheim/files/Yahoo-Group-Messages-2004-2019

The PDF is searchable for text strings so hopefully you will be able to dig up some useful information. The first 74 pages contain a roughly formatted index of topics posted between 2004 and 2019. The discussions appear thereafter. It's not pretty but I think most of the old information should be in there.

Assuming you're referring to the CEM 3396, there are many CEM 3396 discussions in the old correspondence. Also keep in mind that the widebody CEM 3396 which used to be quite common may also be an option for a M1000 if used with some kind of socket adapter.

Obviously please also check first with people in the know, I'm a M1000 owner but am not a professional service tech.


Dennis Barrington
 

I have the 6R, and all the voices work fine.  (fingers crossed) so I was just thinking about long term needs.  I've read the 6/6R have the "fat" Curtis chip.  But the Behringer article didn't state if they're making both sizes or only one of them (ie skinny CEM 3396)

I think it would be killer, assuming it was even possible, to make a different type of voice filter that fits these sockets, but maybe it's a programming incompatibility?  I know nothing about the architecture of filter chips much less most of the electronics of synth architecture.

What surprises me about perusing the old files is, so few Patches/Banks.  Didn't people make their own and share them?  I have a few scavenged from around the web, but haven't seen many at all.  Mostly the 10 M1000 banks, the one 6/6R bank, and all types of formats.  It would be nice to have a Swap Thread of shared Banks, Patches.

Anywho, thanks for the PDF link.  Someone at Yahoo shared their own saved version:

I've been perusing that.  I like your version for the file searchable format.
The advantage of this other format would be the active links, but many are broken due to age.

Thanks, all!
-db

On Nov 16, 2020, at 2:16 PM, Krokkie <Oberheim+owner@groups.io> wrote:

Hello Dennis and welcome. Congratulations on being the first joiner here to post a message.

In the mad rush to back up the old Yahoo site before they took things offline I implemented crude (and cheap) methods to save and chronologically sort what I could of the old correspondence.
Old messages from the Yahoo Oberheim group from 2004 to 2019 have been dumped into a PDF file which you can access in the files section:

https://groups.io/g/Oberheim/files/Yahoo-Group-Messages-2004-2019

The PDF is searchable for text strings so hopefully you will be able to dig up some useful information. The first 74 pages contain a roughly formatted index of topics posted between 2004 and 2019. The discussions appear thereafter. It's not pretty but I think most of the old information should be in there.

Assuming you're referring to the CEM 3396, there are many CEM 3396 discussions in the old correspondence. Also keep in mind that the widebody CEM 3396 which used to be quite common may also be an option for a M1000 if used with some kind of socket adapter.

Obviously please also check first with people in the know, I'm a M1000 owner but am not a professional service tech.


Krokkie
 

Regarding M1000 firmwares, the Gligli firmware corrects some of the bugs that plagued the original firmware and speeds up certain operations (filter sweeps from a mapped modwheel for example) considerably. Gligli based some of the bugfixes on the work of other hackers who figured out how to fix these issues. Gligli also implemented great features like unison detune and figured out a decent workaround for the notorious bottlenecks when trying to sweep filters etc in real time.

The Tauntek firmware is an alternative that contains similarish fixes by a different firmware hacker. I use the Gligli firmware because there were no expectations about making donations and because an excellent multi-platform (Windows, Linux) M1000 patch editor by tux_99 was written with the 116 firmware in mind.

https://groups.io/g/Oberheim/files/M1000_Firmwares/Gligli_116

The other thing to take care of is replacing the soldered in CR-2032. Mine still held enough charge to keep the RAM powered up (great performance from a Japanese Duracell) but after 26 years it was getting tired. Once batteries get tired enough they sometimes start leaking corrosive chemicals on to the circuit board.

The replacement operation to desolder the old battery and replace it with a CR-2032 battery holder + pop in CR-2032 cell is relatively straightforward. Obviously consider leaving such work to a tech if one isn't comfortable servicing old gear.


Krokkie
 

I have some M1000 banks scraped from the usual dark corners years ago lying around somewhere, remind me to upload them. There will be some duplication but at least it's something.


Dennis Barrington
 

That would be awesome!  Thank you!

On Nov 16, 2020, at 2:50 PM, Krokkie <Oberheim+owner@groups.io> wrote:

I have some M1000 banks scraped from the usual dark corners years ago lying around somewhere, remind me to upload them. There will be some duplication but at least it's something.


Dennis Barrington
 

Btw, I did buy a replacement battery but it's the same as the old one.

I couldn't a-certain if a CR2032 holder they offer will fit.  They come with 3 pins, this is 2, and I can't confirm the mm spacing, so that's why I bought the OEM.

I built a guitar amplifier this covid, and solder guitars, so I think I can do this.  The battery looks isolated on the board enough.  ONLY problem is I prob. have to remove the entire board from it's moorings and that is a bit scary (ie bending/breaking a component, bigger chance of static, etc)

I also bought the latest firmware chip and installed it with no problem.  2.15 for the 6R (OEM is 2.13, looks like)
-db


On Nov 16, 2020, at 2:48 PM, Krokkie via groups.io <pwkrokodil@...> wrote:

Regarding M1000 firmwares, the Gligli firmware corrects some of the bugs that plagued the original firmware and speeds up certain operations (filter sweeps from a mapped modwheel for example) considerably. Gligli based some of the bugfixes on the work of other hackers who figured out how to fix these issues. Gligli also implemented great features like unison detune and figured out a decent workaround for the notorious bottlenecks when trying to sweep filters etc in real time.

The Tauntek firmware is an alternative that contains similarish fixes by a different firmware hacker. I use the Gligli firmware because there were no expectations about making donations and because an excellent multi-platform (Windows, Linux) M1000 patch editor by tux_99 was written with the 116 firmware in mind.

https://groups.io/g/Oberheim/files/M1000_Firmwares/Gligli_116

The other thing to take care of is replacing the soldered in CR-2032. Mine still held enough charge to keep the RAM powered up (great performance from a Japanese Duracell) but after 26 years it was getting tired. Once batteries get tired enough they sometimes start leaking corrosive chemicals on to the circuit board.

The replacement operation to desolder the old battery and replace it with a CR-2032 battery holder + pop in CR-2032 cell is relatively straightforward. Obviously consider leaving such work to a tech if one isn't comfortable servicing old gear.


Nicole Massey
 

I've got several 6/6r/1000 banks in the old DOS application called Obiex's
format. If there's a way to convert this format to something someone can use
(or if someone has a machine running a Roland MPU-401 compliant interface)
I'd be happy to share them.

Sent from my HAL 9000 in transit to Jupiter

-----Original Message-----
From: Oberheim@groups.io [mailto:Oberheim@groups.io] On Behalf Of Dennis
Barrington
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2020 1:47 PM
To: Oberheim@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Oberheim] Behringer Voice Chips

I have the 6R, and all the voices work fine. (fingers crossed) so I
was just thinking about long term needs. I've read the 6/6R have the "fat"
Curtis chip. But the Behringer article didn't state if they're making both
sizes or only one of them (ie skinny CEM 3396)

I think it would be killer, assuming it was even possible, to make a
different type of voice filter that fits these sockets, but maybe it's a
programming incompatibility? I know nothing about the architecture of
filter chips much less most of the electronics of synth architecture.

What surprises me about perusing the old files is, so few
Patches/Banks. Didn't people make their own and share them? I have a few
scavenged from around the web, but haven't seen many at all. Mostly the 10
M1000 banks, the one 6/6R bank, and all types of formats. It would be nice
to have a Swap Thread of shared Banks, Patches.

Anywho, thanks for the PDF link. Someone at Yahoo shared their own
saved version:
http://www.florian-anwander.de/yahoo/oberheim/html/topic.html

I've been perusing that. I like your version for the file
searchable format.
The advantage of this other format would be the active links, but
many are broken due to age.

Thanks, all!
-db


On Nov 16, 2020, at 2:16 PM, Krokkie <Oberheim+owner@groups.io
<mailto:Oberheim+owner@groups.io> > wrote:

Hello Dennis and welcome. Congratulations on being the first joiner
here to post a message.

In the mad rush to back up the old Yahoo site before they took
things offline I implemented crude (and cheap) methods to save and
chronologically sort what I could of the old correspondence.
Old messages from the Yahoo Oberheim group from 2004 to 2019 have
been dumped into a PDF file which you can access in the files section:

https://groups.io/g/Oberheim/files/Yahoo-Group-Messages-2004-2019

The PDF is searchable for text strings so hopefully you will be able
to dig up some useful information. The first 74 pages contain a roughly
formatted index of topics posted between 2004 and 2019. The discussions
appear thereafter. It's not pretty but I think most of the old information
should be in there.

Assuming you're referring to the CEM 3396, there are many CEM 3396
discussions in the old correspondence. Also keep in mind that the widebody
CEM 3396 which used to be quite common may also be an option for a M1000 if
used with some kind of socket adapter.

Obviously please also check first with people in the know, I'm a
M1000 owner but am not a professional service tech.


Krokkie
 

Ahh... the glorious 1990's and the MPU-401. I don't have the gear any more but perhaps there are other ways to convert it. Alternatively, if the banks are already in the 6 then they can be dumped out to sysx

Which reminds me, I'll upload my collection (most should be in sysx) once I'm back home in a day or two.

Regarding the CEM 3396 widebody chips, there are specimens offered on Ebay for around $20 from sellers in China.
My best guess (I don't have reliable information, this is just a guess) is that these could be escapee 3396 clones from Coolaudio / Behringer's plant.

The M1000 battery replacement process is described here, maybe there could be some similarities with the 6R.
https://www.untergeek.de/2020/03/howto-replace-the-battery-in-an-oberheim-matrix-1000/


Nicole Massey
 

By the 90's the 401 was a standard more than just an interface. I've got three cards capable of 401 compatibility, but that machine needs a hard drive rebuild and my Matrix 6r and 1000 are in storage because I don't have enough space in my house for the studio. Which is why I was wondering about other programs that might be able to read the format. Another option is to find out if Obiex can save in another format, probably sysex. I'd check it out myself, because I still have the program in my Oberheim directory, but sometimes my screen reader can tell me what's in a DOS window and other times it's unable to parse anything of value.
I think I have a couple in an even more obscure format, the librarian in Voyetra's Sequencer Plus. That's what I used to build my 6r bank

Sent from my HAL 9000 in transit to Jupiter

-----Original Message-----
From: Oberheim@groups.io [mailto:Oberheim@groups.io] On Behalf Of Krokkie via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2020 3:02 PM
To: Oberheim@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Oberheim] Behringer Voice Chips

Ahh... the glorious 1990's and the MPU-401. I don't have the gear any more but perhaps there are other ways to convert it. Alternatively, if the banks are already in the 6 then they can be dumped out to sysx

Which reminds me, I'll upload my collection (most should be in sysx) once I'm back home in a day or two.

Regarding the CEM 3396 widebody chips, there are specimens offered on Ebay for around $20 from sellers in China.
My best guess (I don't have reliable information, this is just a guess) is that these could be escapee 3396 clones from Coolaudio / Behringer's plant.

The M1000 battery replacement process is described here, maybe there could be some similarities with the 6R.
https://www.untergeek.de/2020/03/howto-replace-the-battery-in-an-oberheim-matrix-1000/


Krokkie
 

Many thanks Nicole. Yes if Obiex can dump or convert to sysex then that would be the easy way out.

I've uploaded the various M1000 banks (some were dumped from my own M1000's, some are old collections found in long forgotten about locations on the Internet). Maybe some of these even came from the old Yahoo group, I have no idea anymore.

https://groups.io/g/Oberheim/files/M1000_Misc_Patches


I also found more M6 and M1000 banks here, maybe this website belongs to somebody from the old Yahoo group?

http://www.overacker.com/oberheim.htm


Dennis Barrington
 

The 2 files, matrixed.zip and matrix1000.zip won't open on my mac.

Could you check them out and verify they're ok on your computer?
Make sure it's not just me?
Thanks!

On Nov 18, 2020, at 5:37 PM, Krokkie via groups.io <pwkrokodil@...> wrote:

Many thanks Nicole. Yes if Obiex can dump or convert to sysex then that would be the easy way out.

I've uploaded the various M1000 banks (some were dumped from my own M1000's, some are old collections found in long forgotten about locations on the Internet). Maybe some of these even came from the old Yahoo group, I have no idea anymore.

https://groups.io/g/Oberheim/files/M1000_Misc_Patches


I also found more M6 and M1000 banks here, maybe this website belongs to somebody from the old Yahoo group?

http://www.overacker.com/oberheim.htm


Krokkie
 

I checked by downloading them from Groups.io to a different (Linux) computer to what was used to upload them. They work fine meaning that they haven't been corrupted during transfer.
These archives were probably created years ago by somebody using an old Windows OS variant.


Nicole Massey
 

Yes, but zip files are backwards compatible way back to the early versions when they were DOS applications. Maybe it's a problem with not having the right archiver?

Sent from my HAL 9000 in transit to Jupiter

-----Original Message-----
From: Oberheim@groups.io [mailto:Oberheim@groups.io] On Behalf Of Krokkie
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 4:03 AM
To: Oberheim@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Oberheim] Behringer Voice Chips

I checked by downloading them from Groups.io to a different (Linux) computer to what was used to upload them. They work fine meaning that they haven't been corrupted during transfer.
These archives were probably created years ago by somebody using an old Windows OS variant.


Krokkie
 

Yes an alternate unzipping program should resolve the issue.


Dennis Barrington
 

Unarchiver and Archiver utility failed, but WinZip for Mac unzipped them. (45 day review period)

Thanks for the help.  I notice some of the other won't open in Ctrlr Matrix6 standalone app (to see and edit name) which throws an error, but I haven't tried to see if this translates to being a problem installing yet.  Could just be some bug in that app.

Thanks, peeps!


On Nov 19, 2020, at 1:51 PM, Krokkie via groups.io <pwkrokodil@...> wrote:

Yes an alternate unzipping program should resolve the issue.