Topics

TX focus switching problems with Flex 6600M

David Jaffe
 

Using a Flex 6600M, I have experienced occasional issues with TX focus switching problems, with several different symptoms. 

Sometimes the TX focus changes *after* transmission has begun, as when using <control>F1. I've seen this in CW contests, using a winkeyer.  The first couple characters are sent on the "old" radio (slice/ANT) and then it switches to the "new" radio (slice/ANT).  This only happens very rarely.

I occasionally have seen SSDR notifications. I have very occasionally seen SSDR say "attempt to change TX antenna while transmitting".   I believe when this happens, a TX is in progress and an attempt is made to abort it and switch to the other (as when typing <control>F1 while an F1 TX is in progress).  I saw this once in last weekend's RTTY contest.  I've also seen something like "no TX slice selected" (I forget the exact message.)

I notice that there is a  "PTT Delay" setting in the configuration.  What exactly is this?  Delay from time of asserting PTT until keying?  Or delay between switching and asserting PTT?  Or something else?   Are there any other N1MM settings I should be looking at? 

Thanks for any pointers on how to get a handle on this.

K6DAJ 
Dave

John Bednar
 

Dave,

 

The PTT delay does not control the time between sending commands and beginning transmissions. The Flex command handler was extremely fast when I last tested. It sounds like your computer power is marginal or something changed in Smart SDR. There have been no reports of this from the other Flex owners.

 

Which version of Smart SDR are you using?

 

Are you running additional programs in addition to Smart SDR and N1MM Logger? If so, do the switching delay issues disappear if you only start Smart SDR and N1MM Logger?

 

Describe your computer (CPU model, speed, amount of memory, etc).

 

John, K3CT

 

 

From: N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io [mailto:N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io] On Behalf Of David Jaffe
Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2019 11:18 PM
To: N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io
Subject: [N1MM+] TX focus switching problems with Flex 6600M

 

Using a Flex 6600M, I have experienced occasional issues with TX focus switching problems, with several different symptoms. 

Sometimes the TX focus changes *after* transmission has begun, as when using <control>F1. I've seen this in CW contests, using a winkeyer.  The first couple characters are sent on the "old" radio (slice/ANT) and then it switches to the "new" radio (slice/ANT).  This only happens very rarely.

I occasionally have seen SSDR notifications. I have very occasionally seen SSDR say "attempt to change TX antenna while transmitting".   I believe when this happens, a TX is in progress and an attempt is made to abort it and switch to the other (as when typing <control>F1 while an F1 TX is in progress).  I saw this once in last weekend's RTTY contest.  I've also seen something like "no TX slice selected" (I forget the exact message.)

I notice that there is a  "PTT Delay" setting in the configuration.  What exactly is this?  Delay from time of asserting PTT until keying?  Or delay between switching and asserting PTT?  Or something else?   Are there any other N1MM settings I should be looking at? 

Thanks for any pointers on how to get a handle on this.

K6DAJ 
Dave

Steve London
 

Have you looked at these in the SO2R settings ?

Set Radio Swap Transmit Tail Time (msec) – Time delay after a radio has stopped transmitting, before initiating transmission on another band. Typically used to interrupt a CQ on one radio to S&P on the other radio.

Set Radio Swap Transmit Lead Time (msec) – Time delay when swapping radios, whether or not the radio is transmitting. Typically used to allow station accessories to detect that the active radio has been changed.

https://n1mmwp.hamdocs.com/manual-windows/entry-window/#config-menu-selections

73,
Steve, N2IC

On 10/13/2019 09:18 PM, David Jaffe wrote:
Using a Flex 6600M, I have experienced occasional issues with TX focus switching problems, with several different symptoms.
Sometimes the TX focus changes *after* transmission has begun, as when using <control>F1. I've seen this in CW contests, using a winkeyer.  The first couple characters are sent on the "old" radio (slice/ANT) and then it switches to the "new" radio (slice/ANT).  This only happens very rarely.
I occasionally have seen SSDR notifications. I have very occasionally seen SSDR say "attempt to change TX antenna while transmitting".   I believe when this happens, a TX is in progress and an attempt is made to abort it and switch to the other (as when typing <control>F1 while an F1 TX is in progress).  I saw this once in last weekend's RTTY contest.  I've also seen something like "no TX slice selected" (I forget the exact message.)
I notice that there is a  "PTT Delay" setting in the configuration.  What exactly is this?  Delay from time of asserting PTT until keying?  Or delay between switching and asserting PTT?  Or something else?   Are there any other N1MM settings I should be looking at?
Thanks for any pointers on how to get a handle on this.
K6DAJ
Dave

Tim K9WX
 

Dave: I have experienced these same problems with my Flex 6600.  Check out this post: https://groups.io/g/N1MMLoggerPlus/message/42078

In recent testing, I have found a transmit tail time of 100 msec has solved most of my problems.

Tim K9WX

David Jaffe
 

Computer is 3.5 gHz. AMD Ryzen Quad-Core, 384KB of L1 cache, 2.0 MB of L2 and 16 or L3.     
SSDR 2.6.0

In today's CWTs, I experimented with increasing RadioSwap Transmit Tail and Lead Times.  Lead time was previously set to 30 and the Tail time was 100. Changed them both to 200 and didn't have any problems, though need to test more before I feel secure that this solves the issue (as it's intermittent). 

Thanks for pointers. 
David K6DAJ

Grant Kesselring
 

I am experiencing similar problems with a Flex6600M using SmartSDR v3.1.8.

My Setup:
Latest N1MM in SO2R mode, running on Intel Core i7-4770 CPU @ 3.4GHz, 4 Cores, 16G RAM running Windows10
Flex 6600M: “Left slice”-Ant1, “Right slice”-Ant2

I've been experimenting with Duel CQ'ing while playing WAV file messages.  Using the default Radio Swap settings in N1MM, I see frequent SSDR messages while switching transmissions between Radio slices:  "The antenna may not be changed during transmission"

As David K6DAJ and others have suggested in earlier posts, I increased RadioSwap Transmit Tail and Lead Times to 200ms each.  After several minutes of duel cq'ing, I have not seen the message again.  However, I can pretty consistently get the message to appear if I hit the ESC key just as the radio is switching transmission from one slice to the other.

Grant K1KD

Andy (KU7T)
 

On Tue, Nov 12, 2019 at 07:44 PM, Grant Kesselring wrote:
I am experiencing similar problems with a Flex6600M using SmartSDR v3.1.8.

My Setup:
Latest N1MM in SO2R mode, running on Intel Core i7-4770 CPU @ 3.4GHz, 4 Cores, 16G RAM running Windows10
Flex 6600M: “Left slice”-Ant1, “Right slice”-Ant2

I've been experimenting with Duel CQ'ing while playing WAV file messages.  Using the default Radio Swap settings in N1MM, I see frequent SSDR messages while switching transmissions between Radio slices:  "The antenna may not be changed during transmission"

As David K6DAJ and others have suggested in earlier posts, I increased RadioSwap Transmit Tail and Lead Times to 200ms each.  After several minutes of duel cq'ing, I have not seen the message again.  However, I can pretty consistently get the message to appear if I hit the ESC key just as the radio is switching transmission from one slice to the other.

Grant K1KD

 Grant,

Can you try to see at what exact time it fails? During the tail or during the lead?

Andy
KU7T

Eric Wagner
 

I saw this pop up several times this past weekend during the WAE RTTY contest.  I have set the 200mS tail and lead times in SO2R.  The pop-up seemed to occur under two circumstances. 

1.  Interrupting the dueling CQ on one slice with ESC to answer a call on the second.  This occurrence seemed random as it didn’t happen every time.  It was likely related to timing of how quickly I clicked in DI window of second slice.  I was using ESM and right mouse clicks in the DI.

2. CQ in progress on one slice and changing bands on the other slice by typing a frequency into the entry window.  In this case, I was S&P on the second slice and changing bands.  I avoided the pop-up messaging by waiting for transmission to stop before making a band change. 

Eric - NR4O


On Nov 13, 2019, at 1:20 AM, Andy (KU7T) <ku7t@...> wrote:

On Tue, Nov 12, 2019 at 07:44 PM, Grant Kesselring wrote:
I am experiencing similar problems with a Flex6600M using SmartSDR v3.1.8.

My Setup:
Latest N1MM in SO2R mode, running on Intel Core i7-4770 CPU @ 3.4GHz, 4 Cores, 16G RAM running Windows10
Flex 6600M: “Left slice”-Ant1, “Right slice”-Ant2

I've been experimenting with Duel CQ'ing while playing WAV file messages.  Using the default Radio Swap settings in N1MM, I see frequent SSDR messages while switching transmissions between Radio slices:  "The antenna may not be changed during transmission"

As David K6DAJ and others have suggested in earlier posts, I increased RadioSwap Transmit Tail and Lead Times to 200ms each.  After several minutes of duel cq'ing, I have not seen the message again.  However, I can pretty consistently get the message to appear if I hit the ESC key just as the radio is switching transmission from one slice to the other.

Grant K1KD

 Grant,

Can you try to see at what exact time it fails? During the tail or during the lead?

Andy
KU7T

Grant Kesselring
 

Eric,
Thanks for sharing your experience in the WAE RTTY contest.  What you describe about seeing the pop up when interrupting the dueling CQ is very consistent with what I've been seeing.  I have a 200ms tail and lead time on SO2R radio swapping.  If I start a duel cq, then time hitting the ESC key to interrupt the message transmission (SSB) just as focus is switching between entry windows (ie, radio relays are switching between ANT1 and ANT2), I will often get the pop up message.  I guess the question is: does aborting transmission with the ESC key have any consistent timing relationship to the Radio Swap Transmit delays under SO2R setup?  Or, is hitting ESC completely asynchronous to the switching that occurs during radio swapping?

Andy (KU7T)
 

I believe the ESC functionality is not fully integrated in the swap delay timing functions. Will have to look into this at some point. Likely not going to happen for the next two weeks (too risky to change this sort of stuff now).

73 and good luck in the contests, 
Andy
KU7T


From: N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io <N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io> on behalf of Grant Kesselring <kesselg75@...>
Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2019 7:40 AM
To: N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io <N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [N1MM+] TX focus switching problems with Flex 6600M
 
Eric,
Thanks for sharing your experience in the WAE RTTY contest.  What you describe about seeing the pop up when interrupting the dueling CQ is very consistent with what I've been seeing.  I have a 200ms tail and lead time on SO2R radio swapping.  If I start a duel cq, then time hitting the ESC key to interrupt the message transmission (SSB) just as focus is switching between entry windows (ie, radio relays are switching between ANT1 and ANT2), I will often get the pop up message.  I guess the question is: does aborting transmission with the ESC key have any consistent timing relationship to the Radio Swap Transmit delays under SO2R setup?  Or, is hitting ESC completely asynchronous to the switching that occurs during radio swapping?

InMiami Ale
 

Hello everyone, what described above I have not encountered any problems of any kind, the Wae rtty I configured four stations in so2R we used rtx of all kinds from the sdr, to older devices. In the tests performed by me I had noticed a certain slowdown that according to my analysis was due to the data flow that is controlled by the anti virus, so I did some tests and after disabling anti virus everything worked without interruption. In the end I opened the Control tab of KasperSky to the inbound and exit data control module I put the check to the entry trusted program. If we don't do this check sometimes we find ourselves not understanding certain strange behaviors.

Greetings
Ale iz4osh

Grant Kesselring
 

After operating for the entire Sweepstakes SSB contest this weekend, I only saw the "attempt to change TX antenna while transmitting" maybe one or two times.  However, I did have Radio Swap Transmit Lead/Tail times set at 200ms.  I purposefully set these delay time longer to prevent any problems.  However, there were times during operation where I noticed this radio swap delay, and would have preferred it to be shorter.

In my setup, I have the Flex6600M cabled to the PC running N1MM+ through a Netgear Nighthawk X6 router.  My question is: would it be better from a radio swapping latency perspective if the FlexRadio was connected directly to the PC running the software (ie, remove the router)?  The router itself is just a few months old so I have no reason to suspect problems with it.  However, it seems like a piece of hardware that could potentially be causing latency in the system.  Has anyone ever experimented?

Andy (KU7T)
 

Unlikely. You can run a ping to your radio and it's likely 1ms or less. If its much longer your network is having issues.

You could try to reduce the 200ms a little but still keep it stable.

Remember, N1MM+ treats the 6600M like two generic CAT radios.  It seems to need more time to switch...

Andy
KU7T

Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device


From: N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io <N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io> on behalf of Grant Kesselring <kesselg75@...>
Sent: Monday, November 18, 2019 10:27:51 PM
To: N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io <N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [N1MM+] TX focus switching problems with Flex 6600M
 
After operating for the entire Sweepstakes SSB contest this weekend, I only saw the "attempt to change TX antenna while transmitting" maybe one or two times.  However, I did have Radio Swap Transmit Lead/Tail times set at 200ms.  I purposefully set these delay time longer to prevent any problems.  However, there were times during operation where I noticed this radio swap delay, and would have preferred it to be shorter.

In my setup, I have the Flex6600M cabled to the PC running N1MM+ through a Netgear Nighthawk X6 router.  My question is: would it be better from a radio swapping latency perspective if the FlexRadio was connected directly to the PC running the software (ie, remove the router)?  The router itself is just a few months old so I have no reason to suspect problems with it.  However, it seems like a piece of hardware that could potentially be causing latency in the system.  Has anyone ever experimented?

Jamie WW3S
 

FWIW, I had a 6600, separate Maestro...bought it mainly because it’s marketed as SO2R in the box.....I never could solve the TX switching problem.....mainly used on RTTY and cqing on two bands was difficult.....when it worked, it worked well, but when it didn’t, well you know that story.....sometimes I could go for a few hours, no hiccups, sometimes three times in ten minutes....I guess my point is, it’s not the network....


On Nov 19, 2019, at 1:27 AM, Grant Kesselring <kesselg75@...> wrote:

After operating for the entire Sweepstakes SSB contest this weekend, I only saw the "attempt to change TX antenna while transmitting" maybe one or two times.  However, I did have Radio Swap Transmit Lead/Tail times set at 200ms.  I purposefully set these delay time longer to prevent any problems.  However, there were times during operation where I noticed this radio swap delay, and would have preferred it to be shorter.

In my setup, I have the Flex6600M cabled to the PC running N1MM+ through a Netgear Nighthawk X6 router.  My question is: would it be better from a radio swapping latency perspective if the FlexRadio was connected directly to the PC running the software (ie, remove the router)?  The router itself is just a few months old so I have no reason to suspect problems with it.  However, it seems like a piece of hardware that could potentially be causing latency in the system.  Has anyone ever experimented?

Larry K8UT
 

>Has anyone ever experimented?
As KU7T suggested, you can run some ping tests to the radio but in a local LAN situation the turnaround time will be very short - less than a millisecond.

To answer your question - Yes, The Dev Team has experimented when comparing the delivery speeds of serial cat comms versus tcp/udp packet transmissions. Delivery times were measured from a program mouse click to arrival at the destination device. IIRC the packets were delivered in 10 - 20 milliseconds. If you're experiencing problems with Lead/Tail times set at 200ms, network latency is not likely to be the villain.

-larry K8UT

------ Original Message ------
From: "Grant Kesselring" <kesselg75@...>
Sent: 2019-11-19 01:27:51
Subject: Re: [N1MM+] TX focus switching problems with Flex 6600M

After operating for the entire Sweepstakes SSB contest this weekend, I only saw the "attempt to change TX antenna while transmitting" maybe one or two times.  However, I did have Radio Swap Transmit Lead/Tail times set at 200ms.  I purposefully set these delay time longer to prevent any problems.  However, there were times during operation where I noticed this radio swap delay, and would have preferred it to be shorter.

In my setup, I have the Flex6600M cabled to the PC running N1MM+ through a Netgear Nighthawk X6 router.  My question is: would it be better from a radio swapping latency perspective if the FlexRadio was connected directly to the PC running the software (ie, remove the router)?  The router itself is just a few months old so I have no reason to suspect problems with it.  However, it seems like a piece of hardware that could potentially be causing latency in the system.  Has anyone ever experimented?