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Plugin/feature? - Spider Keyer protocol


ok4rm <radio.miskovice@...>
 
Edited

Hello, I am would like to use Spider Keyer for keying Kenwood TS-690S because sometimes RTS+DTR timing gets garbled and the transmitted CW becomes unreadable; usually several characters are "erased" by CW key (DTR) being kept active over several hundred msec.

Basically, Spider Keyer sends CW text when it receives uppercase ASCII, but it has much more simple set of control commands and reporting, and this set is not compatible with Winkeyer protocol (not even a subset; it is entirely different). http://ok1fig.nagano.cz/SpiderKeyer/SpiderKeyer.htm

My question: can I write my own plugin to control the keyer using custom protocol? Would it be usable as a DLL for instance?
Second thought: what is the minimal subset of Winkeyer protocol to be supported if I wanted N1MM+ to work with a custom keyer?
Thank you,
Jindra


Larry K8UT
 

Hi Jindra,

>can I write my own plugin to control the keyer
No. There is no CW keying API in the program.

>what is the minimal subset of Winkeyer protocol...
The answer to this question depends on the generation of Winkeyer that you intend to impersonate. Most of the Winkeyer clones support the Winkeyer v23 protocol. You can download the source code for K3NG's popular CW Keyer from GitHub, which will provide the subset you need to incorporate in your own code.

-larry (K8UT)

------ Original Message ------
From: "ok4rm" <radio.miskovice@...>
Sent: 2020-11-27 10:44:57 AM
Subject: [N1MM+] Plugin/feature? - Spider Keyer protocol

Hello, I am would like to use Spider Keyer for keying Kenwood TS-690S because sometimes RTS+DTR timing gets garbled and the transmitted CW becomes unreadable; usually several characters are "erased" by CW key (DTR) being kept active over several hundred msec.
Basically, Spider Keyer sends CW text when it receives uppercase ASCII, but it has much more simple set of control commands and reporting, and this set is not compatible with Winkeyer protocol (not even a subset; it is entirely different).
My question: can I write my own plugin to control the keyer using custom protocol? Would it be usable as a DLL for instance?
Second thought: what is the minimal subset of Winkeyer protocol to be supported if I wanted N1MM+ to work with a custom keyer?
Thank you,
Jindra


ok4rm <radio.miskovice@...>
 

Yep, K3NG is exactly what I want to avoid. Too big, too complicated, most of its features useless. I am not gonna play Fox transmitter in Fox hunt... just to take one example.

Out of the 50+/- features listed, I need literally 7: to key one transceiver (not six simultaneously), be able to switch PTT, key with paddles and from the PC, be able to set speed from the PC, report current speed back and report if PC transmission was interrupted by paddles. Controlling sidetone buzzer frequency is not bad, but not essential. I don't need AT Mega with dozens I/O lines, I need just 6 or 7: two for paddles, PTT, KEY, buzzer and 1 analog or two digital pins to control the wpm speed by a knob. Enough to run a contest with N1MM+ logger.
The inflation of do-everything software is a nightmare.
73 Jindra


Larry K8UT
 

Jindra

Sorry to hear about your aversion to CW Keyer. After seeing your schematic, I compared Simple's to Mortty's schematic and concluded that you could upload Goody's sketch to your Arduino Nano and be  up&running with a Winkeyer compatible keyer after changing three output pin assignments in K3NG's sketch.

-larry (K8UT)

------ Original Message ------
From: "ok4rm" <radio.miskovice@...>
Sent: 2020-11-27 12:05:49 PM
Subject: Re: [N1MM+] Plugin/feature? - Spider Keyer protocol

Yep, K3NG is exactly what I want to avoid. Too big, too complicated, most of its features useless. I am not gonna play Fox transmitter in Fox hunt... just to take one example.

Out of the 50+/- features listed, I need literally 7: to key one transceiver (not six simultaneously), be able to switch PTT, key with paddles and from the PC, be able to set speed from the PC, report current speed back and report if PC transmission was interrupted by paddles. Controlling sidetone buzzer frequency is not bad, but not essential. I don't need AT Mega with dozens I/O lines, I need just 6 or 7: two for paddles, PTT, KEY, buzzer and 1 analog or two digital pins to control the wpm speed by a knob. Enough to run a contest with N1MM+ logger.
The inflation of do-everything software is a nightmare.
73 Jindra


ok4rm <radio.miskovice@...>
 

Well, K3NG is a bloated nightmare, but, OK, I went through the wiki, cloned it, configured it, burnt ... but there is no speed control. The potentiometer is simply ignored...
Arrrgh... It just sends at a slow, constant, speed.
The code is twice as large as for Spider Keyer, BUT IT DOES NOT WORK.
You see? That's exactly why I want to avoid sudoku bloatware of this kind.
73 Jindra


ok4rm <radio.miskovice@...>
 

P.S. there are features and options that really made me LOL ROTFL... Sidetone switch... Let's suppose the keyer is mounted in a big box and you had enough space to install a button or switch to handle this feature. The most straightforward way to achieve this is to use a switch to break the line between the sidetone pin and the buzzer... No, we add an extra handler piece of code and an extra conditional compilation block...
Guys, don't you think this went a little bit too far?


Larry K8UT
 

Did you enable the speed pot feature? That's the same sketch has has been very successful in the Mortty CW Keyers.

Regardless, I think your best solution will be found elsewhere, in a minimalist solution without all those bloatware whistles and bells.

-larry (K8UT)

------ Original Message ------
From: "ok4rm" <radio.miskovice@...>
Sent: 2020-11-28 1:53:32 PM
Subject: Re: [N1MM+] Plugin/feature? - Spider Keyer protocol

Well, K3NG is a bloated nightmare, but, OK, I went through the wiki, cloned it, configured it, burnt ... but there is no speed control. The potentiometer is simply ignored...
Arrrgh... It just sends at a slow, constant, speed.
The code is twice as large as for Spider Keyer, BUT IT DOES NOT WORK.
You see? That's exactly why I want to avoid sudoku bloatware of this kind.
73 Jindra


ok4rm <radio.miskovice@...>
 

So, the result: the keyer works with K3NG firmware, but for some strange reason it does not communicate work with N1MM+. I changed all the configuration, serial ports, etc but in the end when I press any message, nothing happens. Plus N1MM+ does not report the keyer's speed setup and vice versa, does not change keyer speed according to setting in N1MM+. Which is strange because from serial terminal all the necessary commands do work as expected.
Considering that this whole exercise was done in order to use N1MM+ logger to its full extent, it was in vain. But that's most likely for Winkeyer forum rather than here.
Everything what happened basically confirmed the old truth that simple things work better and more reliably than complicated things.
73 Jindra


Tom Wagner (N1MM)
 

*Using Winkey/Winkeyer for CW*
K1EL’s Winkey/Winkeyer devices have become very popular with N1MM Logger+ users. The chips are built into a number of interfaces. The stand-alone Winkeyer USB will key two radios and provide PTT functions for both on all bands, simplifying changing modes considerably.

Follow the instructions that come with your interface in setting up CW keying. For the stand-alone unit, You’ll need to determine which port your Winkeyer is listening on, and then check its CW/Other box. Finally, click the Set button and check the Winkey box. That’s all there is to it. Do*NOT*try to configure DTR or RTS for a Winkeyer; checking the Winkey check box automatically sets these to the correct settings for the Winkeyer.

You will probably also need to review (and likely change) settings on the Winkey tab of N1MM Logger+’sConfigurer <https://n1mmwp.hamdocs.com/setup/the-configurer/#winkey-tab>;(Config>Ports, Other). One important one with many transceivers is the Lead Time parameter, needed to prevent Winkey from starting to send CW before your transceiver is ready to make RF. A setting of 2 (20 mS.) is usually plenty; more can make manual keying difficult.

On 11/29/2020 6:20 AM, ok4rm wrote:
So, the result: the keyer works with K3NG firmware, but for some strange reason it does not communicate work with N1MM+. I changed all the configuration, serial ports, etc but in the end when I press any message, nothing happens. Plus N1MM+ does not report the keyer's speed setup and vice versa, does not change keyer speed according to setting in N1MM+. Which is strange because from serial terminal all the necessary commands do work as expected.
Considering that this whole exercise was done in order to use N1MM+ logger to its full extent, it was in vain. But that's most likely for Winkeyer forum rather than here.
Everything what happened basically confirmed the old truth that simple things work better and more reliably than complicated things.
73 Jindra