Topics

N1MM Loses comms with IC-7300


Bob Turner
 

The intermittent problem occurred again. I now remember that I had trouble with this PC with my IC-7410 close to 10 years ago. The theory, then and now, was/is the USB port in PC can't supply sufficient power. It is a relatively compact desktop PC. The fix then was a powered USB hub. That put an end to the problem with this PC for years. A recent shack remodeling (see on QRZ) caused equipment to be removed and reinstalled. The powered USB port ended up on another computer, mostly for cable management. I have since ordered another powered USB hub. Hopefully the hub does not come with a RFI dirty PS.

7 3 Bob
N2SCJ

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Turner
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2021 8:46 PM
To: N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io
Subject: RE: [N1MM+] N1MM Looses comms with IC-7300

I probably should not have mentioned 2m. Problem occurs with no transmission as well. The 2m rig is an IC-9700. So we can forget about 2m RFI. The note about toroids has been considered. I do need toroid's on HF for some bands now that I have an ACOM 700S in line. I added one of unknown mix to the USB cable and it did nothing noticeable. I have notes on toroid mix to review. I'll get back to that. That is not today's problem as problem can occur without any TX on site with any rig.

To recover, I did not reboot or power on/off this time. To get my connection to rig back I unplugged USB cable from PC then reconnected it. N1MM was restarted. Band map timeout value was doubled from 15 to 30. Connection still holding after 2hrs. That's about 45 minutes longer than last time.

I'm wondering if the act of testing the connection (changing frequency) may be acting as some sort of "keep alive" to the connection. Yes? No? Maybe? I'll be leaving software and hardware run overnight when I'm sleeping so that may be the real test.

I will launch WSJTx from within N1MM soon and see if connection holds.

7 3 Bob
N2SCJ


-----Original Message-----
snip

No port sharing. WSJTx is asking N1MM to do rig control.

Bob

-----Original Message-----
snip

Are you sharing a serial port between WSJT & N1MM?

Tom

On 1/13/2021 6:31 PM, Bob Turner wrote:
Tom,

I ran it with N1MM all by itself for over an hour and rig control is still working. I was TX on 2m with a different rig during that test period. I'll look into the timeout values.

I will also run a test with WSJTx all by itself, again TX on 2m and see what happens.

I suspect additional data traffic on the USB from two programs combined may be part of the equation. Initially I had N1MM working via USB at 9,600 baud. When I added WSJTx to the mix it failed rather quickly. Moving up to 56K stopped that. I've since moved up to 115K as a diagnostic. That change made no difference in the communication failure.

I'll review the other mails sent. Keep them coming. Thanks all.

Bob - N2SCJ

-----Original Message-----
From: N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io [mailto:N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io] On
Behalf Of Tom Wagner (N1MM)
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2021 5:42 PM
To: N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io
Subject: Re: [N1MM+] N1MM Looses comms with IC-7300

In the bandmap, try right-clicking and setting the transceiver timeout value to a higher number. Start with 15 and reduce if the problem went away. Your 2m signal may be interfering with your CAT.

If you determine it is RF, wind a few turns with your usb cable around a 2.4" mix 43 toroid. If that fixes it, consider finding a better cable.

Tom - N1MM

On 1/13/2021 5:21 PM, Bob Turner wrote:
I had N1MM+ working with IC-7300 and WSJTx for about 4 days.
  Communications with rig would remain up into the next day.  Not
any more.  A pending Windows Update this morning made PC kerfluey/
unstable.  WU ran to completion successfully and all was well – at
first.  The most recent event was like this.

1)Checked hibernation settings for USB in power management.  All disabled.

2)Checked advanced properties of the USB port/silabs driver for the
IC-7300.  Hibernation/power management was off.

3)Rebooted to recover from lost comms

4)All working

5)Start N1MM and have N1MM start WSJTx.

6)Do nothing but TX on 2m, IC-7300 was on 6m.

7)After about 5-10 minutes I lost comms with the IC-7300.

8)As a diagnostic aid, I increased speed from 56K to 115K.  All works.

9)In about 5-10 minutes I lost comms again.

I am currently simplifying the equation.  N1MM is started but has not
called WSJTx.  So far so good, but its only been about 5 minutes.

Looking for ideas?

7 3  Bob

N2SCJ


VE9AA - Mike
 

GM Bob,

Purely from an IC-7410 perspective....I have two of them in an SO2R setup and am using an 11 yr old Gateway (Windows-7) laptop and the USB ports never drop the radios. (unless RFI is involved, which I solved several years back).  I also use all the USB ports on the laptop for KB/mouse/controller, etc. so I would THINK that if the Ic-7410 drew excessive current from USB ports, I might've noticed it. (maybe not though)


On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 10:55 AM, Bob Turner wrote:
The intermittent problem occurred again. I now remember that I had trouble with this PC with my IC-7410 close to 10 years ago. The theory, then and now, was/is the USB port in PC can't supply sufficient power. It is a relatively compact desktop PC. The fix then was a powered USB hub. That put an end to the problem with this PC for years. A recent shack remodeling (see on QRZ) caused equipment to be removed and reinstalled. The powered USB port ended up on another computer, mostly for cable management. I have since ordered another powered USB hub. Hopefully the hub does not come with a RFI dirty PS.

7 3 Bob
N2SCJ

 
--

Mike VE9AA


Bob Turner
 

Mike,

 

It’s no longer an IC-7410 problem.  Sold that rig about 5 years ago.  Now it’s an IC-7300 that worked fine on a different PC along with an IC-9700 and two more rigs.  That PC is a big chassis tower with lots of room inside so that may be why it can handle 4 rigs with USB connections.  The one that can’t handle it is a mid to small form factor where everything is packed tight next to each other.  Your laptop is tiny also so that is incongruent with my theory.   My thought is the PS in my little computer has little to no headroom and not that the rig is taking too much.  This is now the 2nd rig that PC had trouble with.  So far it’s only a theory until I can try a powered USB hub.  The problem is intermittent so I won’t be sure it’s gone until about a week or two with no loss of connection.  The problem occurs with no transmissions from any rig.

 

I have since moved the USB connection to the front of the computer as USB comes back to life it I unplug, plug back in, and tell N1MM to reset the connection.   Now I can easily recover without digging out the PC from a tight spot.

 

The powered USB hub arrives Friday / tomorrow.  If I get impatient, I could move the old one from one PC to another, but that will make double work for me.  I may just wait.

 

7 3  Bob

N2SCJ

 

From: N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io [mailto:N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io] On Behalf Of VE9AA - Mike
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2021 10:30 AM
To: N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io
Subject: Re: [N1MM+] N1MM Loses comms with IC-7300

 

GM Bob,

Purely from an IC-7410 perspective....I have two of them in an SO2R setup and am using an 11 yr old Gateway (Windows-7) laptop and the USB ports never drop the radios. (unless RFI is involved, which I solved several years back).  I also use all the USB ports on the laptop for KB/mouse/controller, etc. so I would THINK that if the Ic-7410 drew excessive current from USB ports, I might've noticed it. (maybe not though)


On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 10:55 AM, Bob Turner wrote:

The intermittent problem occurred again. I now remember that I had trouble with this PC with my IC-7410 close to 10 years ago. The theory, then and now, was/is the USB port in PC can't supply sufficient power. It is a relatively compact desktop PC. The fix then was a powered USB hub. That put an end to the problem with this PC for years. A recent shack remodeling (see on QRZ) caused equipment to be removed and reinstalled. The powered USB port ended up on another computer, mostly for cable management. I have since ordered another powered USB hub. Hopefully the hub does not come with a RFI dirty PS.

7 3 Bob
N2SCJ


 
--

Mike VE9AA


Bob Turner
 

Update to my long other thread…

 

Rig timeout was changed from 15 to 30 per Tom’s suggestion I increase it to 15.  It was at 15 so I doubled it.  I don’t think this did much but perhaps it eliminated some disconnects.  I still lost comms about 2 hours later.

 

I moved USB cable from back panel to front of PC USB port to make it easier to reset port without a reboot (unplug, plug back in).  Since I’ve done this, I’ve not had to do a reset.  It’s been about 18 hours.  This makes that port or the back ports suspect.  This VHF contest weekend will be the real test if it can stay up until after the contest. 

 

If it fails again I will be installing a newly arrived powered USB hub.  A powered hub was suggested to me about 10 years ago for same PC losing USB to IC-7410.  That worked for 5+ years, so long I forgot the hub was there and removed it by accident with a shack remodel.

 

I suspect I have a bad or marginal USB port that does not provide enough power to the USB device.  That is why a powered hub that should not be needed worked around the problem.  Only a theory at this time.

 

7 3  Bob

N2SCJ


John Bednar
 

Bob,

 

I didn’t think increasing the timeout would help. I would reset it back to the default value.

 

The radio powers the USB port chip in the radio. It is not powered by the computer USB port.

The radio times out because data is not received from the radio for ## seconds.

 

I assume that you have disabled your computer sleep and hibernate for these long tests. If the computer enters either of these power down modes you can’t expect the radio to stay connected when the computer wakes.

 

Make sure that you disabled USB selective suspend settings in the power options window.

 

 

I don’t expect there is any issue with your rear USB ports. The rear ports may be USB 3.0 while the others are USB 2.0. Windows is causing the USB port to sleep which stops the data transfer causing the radio communication issue. That is a common problem since Windows defaults the power down option to ON and often resets the user setting.

 

John, K3CT

 

 

From: N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io <N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Turner
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2021 7:02 PM
To: N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io
Subject: [N1MM+] N1MM Loses comms with IC-7300

 

Update to my long other thread…

 

Rig timeout was changed from 15 to 30 per Tom’s suggestion I increase it to 15.  It was at 15 so I doubled it.  I don’t think this did much but perhaps it eliminated some disconnects.  I still lost comms about 2 hours later.

 

I moved USB cable from back panel to front of PC USB port to make it easier to reset port without a reboot (unplug, plug back in).  Since I’ve done this, I’ve not had to do a reset.  It’s been about 18 hours.  This makes that port or the back ports suspect.  This VHF contest weekend will be the real test if it can stay up until after the contest. 

 

If it fails again I will be installing a newly arrived powered USB hub.  A powered hub was suggested to me about 10 years ago for same PC losing USB to IC-7410.  That worked for 5+ years, so long I forgot the hub was there and removed it by accident with a shack remodel.

 

I suspect I have a bad or marginal USB port that does not provide enough power to the USB device.  That is why a powered hub that should not be needed worked around the problem.  Only a theory at this time.

 

7 3  Bob

N2SCJ


Bob Turner
 

John,

 

It’s been working since about 11PM last night.  Only change is I’m plugged into front USB.  There may be something else going on with this PC/port that a powered hub covers up.   Perhaps as simple as one conductor having an intermittent connection.  I’ve been making FT8 contacts (about 50) via WSJTx logging to N1MM to determine all is working, including replicating log data to my IC-9700 PC.   If it keeps working it will stay in that port until after the contest.  Then I may try troubleshooting again starting with plugging it in the rear USB.  There are a mix of 2.x and 3.x ports on the back.  I can change timeout back to 15 after the contest or maybe if it acts up again before contest ends.

 

Hibernation / power saving has been disabled as you suggested for quite some time now.  The only thing allowed to sleep is my monitor after an hour of inactivity.  At one point the setup worked for 5+ days as I left it running two weeks prior to Jan VHF as a test.  Only a day or so ago did it act up with no changes on my part.  There was a Windows Update just prior to the problem.  Files were downloaded, but supposedly not installed by WU overnight.  WSJT complained about missing sound card as soon as I told it to make a contact.   I may have lost rig control as well.  All was well after WU completed.  I did recheck power settings after WU.  Can’t remember their status but if wrong I fixed them.   My sound card volume levels did change, I set them back.

 

7 3  Bob

N2SCJ

 

From: N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io [mailto:N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io] On Behalf Of John Bednar via groups.io
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2021 8:03 PM
To: N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io
Subject: Re: [N1MM+] N1MM Loses comms with IC-7300

 

Bob,

 

I didn’t think increasing the timeout would help. I would reset it back to the default value.

 

The radio powers the USB port chip in the radio. It is not powered by the computer USB port.

The radio times out because data is not received from the radio for ## seconds.

 

I assume that you have disabled your computer sleep and hibernate for these long tests. If the computer enters either of these power down modes you can’t expect the radio to stay connected when the computer wakes.

 

Make sure that you disabled USB selective suspend settings in the power options window.

 

 

I don’t expect there is any issue with your rear USB ports. The rear ports may be USB 3.0 while the others are USB 2.0. Windows is causing the USB port to sleep which stops the data transfer causing the radio communication issue. That is a common problem since Windows defaults the power down option to ON and often resets the user setting.

 

John, K3CT

 

 

From: N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io <N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Turner
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2021 7:02 PM
To: N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io
Subject: [N1MM+] N1MM Loses comms with IC-7300

 

Update to my long other thread…

 

Rig timeout was changed from 15 to 30 per Tom’s suggestion I increase it to 15.  It was at 15 so I doubled it.  I don’t think this did much but perhaps it eliminated some disconnects.  I still lost comms about 2 hours later.

 

I moved USB cable from back panel to front of PC USB port to make it easier to reset port without a reboot (unplug, plug back in).  Since I’ve done this, I’ve not had to do a reset.  It’s been about 18 hours.  This makes that port or the back ports suspect.  This VHF contest weekend will be the real test if it can stay up until after the contest. 

 

If it fails again I will be installing a newly arrived powered USB hub.  A powered hub was suggested to me about 10 years ago for same PC losing USB to IC-7410.  That worked for 5+ years, so long I forgot the hub was there and removed it by accident with a shack remodel.

 

I suspect I have a bad or marginal USB port that does not provide enough power to the USB device.  That is why a powered hub that should not be needed worked around the problem.  Only a theory at this time.

 

7 3  Bob

N2SCJ


Jim W7RY
 

Yes, it does matter. Its not just the 5 volt supply. The port shuts down.

And this setting is in Root Hubs and NOT just in the port itself. Check ALL USB devices.






Thanks
73
Jim W7RY
On 1/15/2021 7:02 PM, John Bednar via groups.io wrote:

Bob,

 

I didn’t think increasing the timeout would help. I would reset it back to the default value.

 

The radio powers the USB port chip in the radio. It is not powered by the computer USB port.

The radio times out because data is not received from the radio for ## seconds.

 

I assume that you have disabled your computer sleep and hibernate for these long tests. If the computer enters either of these power down modes you can’t expect the radio to stay connected when the computer wakes.

 

Make sure that you disabled USB selective suspend settings in the power options window.

 

 

I don’t expect there is any issue with your rear USB ports. The rear ports may be USB 3.0 while the others are USB 2.0. Windows is causing the USB port to sleep which stops the data transfer causing the radio communication issue. That is a common problem since Windows defaults the power down option to ON and often resets the user setting.

 

John, K3CT

 

 

From: N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io <N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Turner
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2021 7:02 PM
To: N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io
Subject: [N1MM+] N1MM Loses comms with IC-7300

 

Update to my long other thread…

 

Rig timeout was changed from 15 to 30 per Tom’s suggestion I increase it to 15.  It was at 15 so I doubled it.  I don’t think this did much but perhaps it eliminated some disconnects.  I still lost comms about 2 hours later.

 

I moved USB cable from back panel to front of PC USB port to make it easier to reset port without a reboot (unplug, plug back in).  Since I’ve done this, I’ve not had to do a reset.  It’s been about 18 hours.  This makes that port or the back ports suspect.  This VHF contest weekend will be the real test if it can stay up until after the contest. 

 

If it fails again I will be installing a newly arrived powered USB hub.  A powered hub was suggested to me about 10 years ago for same PC losing USB to IC-7410.  That worked for 5+ years, so long I forgot the hub was there and removed it by accident with a shack remodel.

 

I suspect I have a bad or marginal USB port that does not provide enough power to the USB device.  That is why a powered hub that should not be needed worked around the problem.  Only a theory at this time.

 

7 3  Bob

N2SCJ



Tom Crowley
 

Had a similar issue, moved N1MM  to a faster PC to solve it.

 

Tom KT4XN

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Jim W7RY
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2021 09:06 PM
To: N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io
Subject: Re: [N1MM+] N1MM Loses comms with IC-7300

 

Yes, it does matter. Its not just the 5 volt supply. The port shuts down.

And this setting is in Root Hubs and NOT just in the port itself. Check ALL USB devices.







Thanks
73
Jim W7RY

On 1/15/2021 7:02 PM, John Bednar via groups.io wrote:

Bob,

 

I didn’t think increasing the timeout would help. I would reset it back to the default value.

 

The radio powers the USB port chip in the radio. It is not powered by the computer USB port.

The radio times out because data is not received from the radio for ## seconds.

 

I assume that you have disabled your computer sleep and hibernate for these long tests. If the computer enters either of these power down modes you can’t expect the radio to stay connected when the computer wakes.

 

Make sure that you disabled USB selective suspend settings in the power options window.

 

 

I don’t expect there is any issue with your rear USB ports. The rear ports may be USB 3.0 while the others are USB 2.0. Windows is causing the USB port to sleep which stops the data transfer causing the radio communication issue. That is a common problem since Windows defaults the power down option to ON and often resets the user setting.

 

John, K3CT

 

 

From: N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io <N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Turner
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2021 7:02 PM
To: N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io
Subject: [N1MM+] N1MM Loses comms with IC-7300

 

Update to my long other thread…

 

Rig timeout was changed from 15 to 30 per Tom’s suggestion I increase it to 15.  It was at 15 so I doubled it.  I don’t think this did much but perhaps it eliminated some disconnects.  I still lost comms about 2 hours later.

 

I moved USB cable from back panel to front of PC USB port to make it easier to reset port without a reboot (unplug, plug back in).  Since I’ve done this, I’ve not had to do a reset.  It’s been about 18 hours.  This makes that port or the back ports suspect.  This VHF contest weekend will be the real test if it can stay up until after the contest. 

 

If it fails again I will be installing a newly arrived powered USB hub.  A powered hub was suggested to me about 10 years ago for same PC losing USB to IC-7410.  That worked for 5+ years, so long I forgot the hub was there and removed it by accident with a shack remodel.

 

I suspect I have a bad or marginal USB port that does not provide enough power to the USB device.  That is why a powered hub that should not be needed worked around the problem.  Only a theory at this time.

 

7 3  Bob

N2SCJ

 

 


Barry Bettman
 

I have had a similar problem with my ic7300 and one of the usb ports on my laptop not always working.  When I use a different port on my computer and it works fine.  I assume the laptop has a bad USB port, probably since I have used the same port for many years inserting the usb cable / are removing it regularly.


73,

Barry K6ST
Nevada Section Youth Coordinator

ARRL (American Radio Relay League) arrl.org

The national association for amateur radio





Virus-free. www.avast.com


Bob Turner
 

I have:

 

(3) Generic USB Hub

(2) Chipset Family USB Controller

(1) USB 4.0 eX… Controller

(1) USB Composite Device

(1) Mass storage

(2) USB Root Hub

(1) USB Root Hub 3.x

(1) SiLabs 210x USB to UART…

 

Every one of them has the “Allow the computer to turn off…”  deselected (if it exists, some don’t have Power settings)

 

Bob

 

From: N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io [mailto:N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io] On Behalf Of Jim W7RY
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2021 8:07 PM
To: N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io
Subject: Re: [N1MM+] N1MM Loses comms with IC-7300

 

Yes, it does matter. Its not just the 5 volt supply. The port shuts down.

And this setting is in Root Hubs and NOT just in the port itself. Check ALL USB devices.







Thanks
73
Jim W7RY

On 1/15/2021 7:02 PM, John Bednar via groups.io wrote:

Bob,

 

I didn’t think increasing the timeout would help. I would reset it back to the default value.

 

The radio powers the USB port chip in the radio. It is not powered by the computer USB port.

The radio times out because data is not received from the radio for ## seconds.

 

I assume that you have disabled your computer sleep and hibernate for these long tests. If the computer enters either of these power down modes you can’t expect the radio to stay connected when the computer wakes.

 

Make sure that you disabled USB selective suspend settings in the power options window.

 

 

I don’t expect there is any issue with your rear USB ports. The rear ports may be USB 3.0 while the others are USB 2.0. Windows is causing the USB port to sleep which stops the data transfer causing the radio communication issue. That is a common problem since Windows defaults the power down option to ON and often resets the user setting.

 

John, K3CT

 

 

From: N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io <N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Turner
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2021 7:02 PM
To: N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io
Subject: [N1MM+] N1MM Loses comms with IC-7300

 

Update to my long other thread…

 

Rig timeout was changed from 15 to 30 per Tom’s suggestion I increase it to 15.  It was at 15 so I doubled it.  I don’t think this did much but perhaps it eliminated some disconnects.  I still lost comms about 2 hours later.

 

I moved USB cable from back panel to front of PC USB port to make it easier to reset port without a reboot (unplug, plug back in).  Since I’ve done this, I’ve not had to do a reset.  It’s been about 18 hours.  This makes that port or the back ports suspect.  This VHF contest weekend will be the real test if it can stay up until after the contest. 

 

If it fails again I will be installing a newly arrived powered USB hub.  A powered hub was suggested to me about 10 years ago for same PC losing USB to IC-7410.  That worked for 5+ years, so long I forgot the hub was there and removed it by accident with a shack remodel.

 

I suspect I have a bad or marginal USB port that does not provide enough power to the USB device.  That is why a powered hub that should not be needed worked around the problem.  Only a theory at this time.

 

7 3  Bob

N2SCJ

 


Bob Turner
 

Barry,

 

Thanks.  I am beginning to suspect an intermittently bad port and not a software configuration issue.  I’ll try using the suspect port again after the VHF contest this weekend.

 

For the person who asked.  Machine is Core I3, 8G Ram, with an SSD for booting.  If it were too slow it would be too slow all the time.  This machine worked fine for over 5 years with N1MM, albeit with a powered USB hub plugged into it.

 

7 3  Bob

N2SCJ

 

From: N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io [mailto:N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io] On Behalf Of Barry Bettman
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2021 9:16 PM
To: N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io
Subject: Re: [N1MM+] N1MM Loses comms with IC-7300

 

I have had a similar problem with my ic7300 and one of the usb ports on my laptop not always working.  When I use a different port on my computer and it works fine.  I assume the laptop has a bad USB port, probably since I have used the same port for many years inserting the usb cable / are removing it regularly.

 


73,

Barry K6ST

Nevada Section Youth Coordinator

ARRL (American Radio Relay League) arrl.org

The national association for amateur radio

 

 

 

 

Virus-free. www.avast.com