Topics

DVK monitoring and microphone muting with Flex 6000 series transceivers


Lu Romero - W4LT
 

All:

I've also asked Flex about this, and waiting for a response.  But it might be something in the Logger code that might be adjustable, so I'm posting here.

My station configuration:

-Flex 6400 operated remotely via SmartLink - Lenovo W530 i7 with 16GB RAM, 500GB SSDD, Three monitors, Windows 10 Pro 64 - Maestro Version 2 connected via Ethernet - N1MMLogger Plus latest revision - Using N1MMLogger Plus audio for DVK recorded at 22kbps/8 bit PCM wav files.- Microphone and PTT for live mic via Maestro, also connected via Ethernet to the radio remotely.  

My Use case: 

Computer running latest N1MMLogger + antenna rotor control and switching via Green Heron Everyware.  DVK playing back via computer using DAX under the control of N11MMLogger + PTT as specified in the Flex SO2R setup document. Maestro used for knobs and spectrum display: Think of the Maestro as the local "radio" that has its RF generator 8 miles away. Local PTT is via Maestro foot switch. Local mic via Maestro's MIC 2 input. Not using SO2R, only SO2V for simplicity.

The problem:

DVK works fine over DAX, however, I cannot hear the DVK playback in my headset via Maestro. In order to hear playback, Flex's document suggests enabling the Flex audio monitor. If the audio monitor is enabled in Maestro, since my headset is connected to the Maestro Headset out, I now hear the DVK playout, but then I also hear the local mic concurrently, delayed by A LOT!  This is truly disorienting. 

If I turn off the monitor, now no local audio in the headset, but now I cannot hear what the DVK is playing out. I then enabled "Mute Microphone if radio supports it" in N1MMLogger + Configurer for the port controlling the radio. With this switch on, the local Mic through Maestro mutes when DVK is playing.  But then, when DVK playout is complete, the mic DOES NOT UNMUTE.  A look at the Maestro Mic pot shows it was turned down to 1 from 50.  Turn up mic, and now have normal output level.  But next time DVK is played, mic level returns to 1 and stays there.  

Why is this needed?  Example:

In ARRL Swepstakes, I insert the station that I'm working's callsign and supply him a serial number using the local mic.  Then I send the F3 DVK to complete the exchange from a stored file. It is impossible to hear what the DVK is sending EITHER WAY under the existing functionality defined above, unless there is a setting that I am unaware of. I either hear DVK and delayed local mic or hear no DVK or Mic.  If the local mic would be returned to its previous setting, the process would work, but the mic stays at 1 after the DVK plays. 

In addition, when you trigger DVK with the footswitch pressed, the DVK starts playing.  When you release the footswitch, the DVK continues to play, but the radio then drops PTT and no DVK is transmitted.  EVERY OTHER RADIO I have used with Logger maintains PTT from Logger when I release the footswitch during a DVK playout when playing DVK after a local mic event. Also, you must release the footswitch before any other local mic event... The mic MUTES until the footswitch is released, then re asserted.  

It was a very frustrating SS SSB contest with these challenges.  

Any ideas as to what is going on here?  I'm glad to test anything that will solve this if the development team is so inclined to look into this.  If Flex responds, I will forward the response in this thread.

Regards

Lu Romero - W4LT


VE9AA - Mike
 

Hey Lu, 

This comment won't help you very much I'm afraid.  I don't use Flex, but I do route my audio from my headset through a computer and out to an SO2R box then to my 2 Icoms.
I was initially using audio monitoring via the computer and the delay even on site (I see you're remote) was too much to deal with, so I only use the "monitor" function of the Icom itself now.  I could (and can) do it w/o the radio monitor function as I still hear the outgoing SSB wav files via the computer, but don't know if Flex has the equivalent. (my mic is live when messages are going out, so I have to be careful not to cough, etc. when that's taking place)

I also wanted to just give you 2 thumbs up for a very articulated explanation to your problem (and for using your callsign so we know who you are)

I hope you are able to solve this.  Surely there are other (remote) Flex users with similar issues.

GL
--
CU (all of a sudden) in the next one.
Mike VE9AA


John Bednar
 

Lu,

 

I made an experimental version for you to confirm that the MIC reset command is formatted correctly and actually sent to the radio.

 

Download and install the version for you located here:

https://n1mmwp.hamdocs.com/mmfiles/categories/programexperimental/

 

Open the Info window, send a wav file several times, and then direct email me the text that was printed in the Info window.

 

Do you have “PTT via Radio Command for SSB” checked in the radio baud rate window? I know that is in the setup document.

Some direct sampling radios have latency that is very small. Contact Flex to see if changing filter settings, modulation settings, etc will reduce the observed latency.

 

John, K3CT

 

 

From: N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io [mailto:N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io] On Behalf Of Lu Romero - W4LT
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2020 1:17 PM
To: N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io
Subject: [N1MM+] DVK monitoring and microphone muting with Flex 6000 series transceivers

 

All:

I've also asked Flex about this, and waiting for a response  But it might be something in the Logger code that might be adjustable, so I'm posting here.

My station configuration:

-Flex 6400 operated remotely via SmartLink - Lenovo W530 i7 with 16GB RAM, 500GB SSDD, Three monitors, Windows 10 Pro 64 - Maestro Version 2 connected via Ethernet - N1MMLogger Plus latest revision - Using N1MMLogger Plus audio for DVK recorded at 22kbps/8 bit PCM wav files.- Microphone and PTT for live mic via Maestro, also connected via Ethernet to the radio remotely.  

My Use case: 

Computer running latest N1MMLogger + antenna rotor control and switching via Green Heron Everyware.  DVK playing back via computer using DAX under the control of N11MMLogger + PTT as specified in the Flex SO2R setup document. Maestro used for knobs and spectrum display: Think of the Maestro as the local "radio" that has its RF generator 8 miles away. Local PTT is via Maestro foot switch. Local mic via Maestro's MIC 2 input. Not using SO2R, only SO2V for simplicity.

The problem:

DVK works fine over DAX, however, I cannot hear the DVK playback in my headset via Maestro. In order to hear playback, Flex's document suggests enabling the Flex audio monitor. If the audio monitor is enabled in Maestro, since my headset is connected to the Maestro Headset out, I now hear the DVK playout, but then I also hear the local mic concurrently, delayed by A LOT!  This is truly disorienting. 

If I turn off the monitor, now no local audio in the headset, but now I cannot hear what the DVK is playing out. I then enabled "Mute Microphone if radio supports it" in N1MMLogger + Configurer for the port controlling the radio. With this switch on, the local Mic through Maestro mutes when DVK is playing  But then, when DVK playout is complete, the mic DOES NOT UNMUTE.  A look at the Maestro Mic pot shows it was turned down to 1 from 50.  Turn up mic, and now have normal output level.  But next time DVK is played, mic level returns to 1 and stays there.  

Why is this needed?  Example:

In ARRL Swepstakes, I insert the station that I'm working's callsign and supply him a serial number using the local mic.  Then I send the F3 DVK to complete the exchange from a stored file. It is impossible to hear what the DVK is sending EITHER WAY under the existing functionality defined above, unless there is a setting that I am unaware of. I either hear DVK and delayed local mic or hear no DVK or Mic.  If the local mic would be returned to its previous setting, the process would work, but the mic stays at 1 after the DVK plays. 

In addition, when you trigger DVK with the footswitch pressed, the DVK starts playing.  When you release the footswitch, the DVK continues to play, but the radio then drops PTT and no DVK is transmitted.  EVERY OTHER RADIO I have used with Logger maintains PTT from Logger when I release the footswitch during a DVK playout when playing DVK after a local mic event. Also, you must release the footswitch before any other local mic event... The mic MUTES until the footswitch is released, then re asserted.  

It was a very frustrating SS SSB contest with these challenges.  

Any ideas as to what is going on here?  I'm glad to test anything that will solve this if the development team is so inclined to look into this.  If Flex responds, I will forward the response in this thread

Regards

Lu Romero - W4LT


Lu Romero - W4LT
 

John:

Thanks so much for the help!  Its my wife's birthday today, and tomorrow is Thanksgiving, as you know, so I will get on this on Friday after Christmas Tree setup and before CQ WW CW.  Have to set up for the family Zoom Thanksgiving session, so must use this computer since it has the best camera and I have to disconnect from the radio environment.

Yes, I do have "PTT via Radio Command for SSB" checked.  Its the only way the PTT keys from Logger.  As you know, the Maestro and the PC are connected to the Flex which is 8 miles from here via SmartLink/Ethernet using VSPE (Flex's "CAT" virtual ports).  My local Flex has same issues with mic/DVK that the remote has as well.

Latency on Flex 6xxx is acceptable in local LAN environments.  Remote is another story. Add to this the fact that the facility where the radio is located was having connectivity problems this weekend, and the latency was made worse by a consistent 3% packet loss on the connection to Flex from here.  Ever listen to marginal DStar?  I ran an 18 hour contest listening to audio like that. 

While we are conversing, just to let you know, the other Flex issue is no CW sidetone when sending F-Keys from Logger.  None at all.  I kludged around this by using a microHAM CW keyer controlled by Logger locally and fooling Maestro into thinking that it had a hand key plugged into it.  This gives me sidetone from Maestro for paddles and F-Keys. I can live with this arrangement for now.

I have two 6xxx series radios that I work with, one is mine, the other is my club's.  I'm learning that, for serious contesting, these rigs are certainly a science project, 

73

Lu Romero - W4LT
Tampa
 


Ron Rossi
 

Hi Mike,

I notice you mention the mic being live when you are Tx a recorded message. You have a similar configuration to me and I had been having the same problem. Do you have the Zero Mic Level checked?


I am curious because working with John, K3CT, we determined it had to do with the mic line being set to zero input level rather than being muted (mute was the behavior a long while ago and it was changed to zero level). No one else had reported this issue, so I am interested that someone else sees it.
--
73 es God Bless de Ron KK1L <><
KK1L.COM


John Bednar
 

Ron,

 

Lu is using the ConFig, Other, “Mute MIC on supported rigs”.

 

I am sending you a direct email in a few minutes. Look for it.

 

John, K3CT

 

From: N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io [mailto:N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io] On Behalf Of Ron Rossi
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2020 2:27 PM
To: N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io
Subject: Re: [N1MM+] DVK monitoring and microphone muting with Flex 6000 series transceivers

 

Hi Mike,

I notice you mention the mic being live when you are Tx a recorded message. You have a similar configuration to me and I had been having the same problem. Do you have the Zero Mic Level checked?


I am curious because working with John, K3CT, we determined it had to do with the mic line being set to zero input level rather than being muted (mute was the behavior a long while ago and it was changed to zero level). No one else had reported this issue, so I am interested that someone else sees it.
--
73 es God Bless de Ron KK1L <><
KK1L.COM


Ron Rossi
 

Got it. Works great. Thanks.
--
73 es God Bless de Ron KK1L <><
KK1L.COM


Lu Romero - W4LT
 

All:  FYI:

Got a reply from Flex.  I'm not sure if they are just appeasing me so I will stop bothering them or if they are serious and have included this as a feature request (since their product roadmap isnt visible to anyone else outside of the company...)!  I will take them at their word :). I'll know more after CQ WW CW when I can test SSB.

---------------=----------------=------------------

Tim Ellison (FlexRadio HelpDesk)


FlexRadio is currently operating in a mode that supports social distancing in compliance with local, state and federal mandates due to the COVID-19 pandemic. As such due to higher than normal support incidents, please note that there may be slight delays in responding back to your ticket replies.

Now let's get started addressing your issue.

Thank you for the detailed use case and problem description.  I have requested that this be added to our feature request list.

Since I have entered your feature request into our database, I am submitting your HelpDesk ticket to be closed at this time. If you need additional assistance or have any follow-up questions regarding this support incident, you can re-open this ticket simply by replying to it and we'll continue working with you on your issue.

Thanks for using the FlexRadio HelpDesk. We're here to help when you need us.

Tim Ellison, W4TME
Customer Experience Manager

FlexRadio
4616 W Howard Ln Suite 1-150
Austin, TX 78728

----------------=--------------------=------------------------

Lu Romero - W4LT
Tampa FL