Topics

locked Spotting

Joe WB9SBD
 

In N1MM+, is there a way to spot someone, but not be as being assisted?

Like I want to run un-assisted, yet I want to help stations out by spotting them.

Joe WB9SBD

Mirko �ibilja
 

Hi Joe,

I think it is done automatically for all your S&P contact, as long as you are connected to your telnet cluster. (After connecting, you should minimalism Telnet window if unassisted)...
In N1MM Ligger Classic there was Spot It button in EW and somewhere in config option to choose automatical spotting of S&P Qs...

73 Mirko, S57AD

V V sre., 22. jan. 2020 ob 20:26 je oseba Joe WB9SBD <nss@...> napisala:

In N1MM+, is there a way to spot someone, but not be as being assisted?

Like I want to run un-assisted, yet I want to help stations out by
spotting them.

Joe WB9SBD






--
Mirko S57AD

Jim W7RY
 

In what sort of contest? Which mode?


Thanks
73
Jim W7RY
On 1/22/2020 1:26 PM, Joe WB9SBD wrote:

In N1MM+, is there a way to spot someone, but not be as being assisted?

Like I want to run un-assisted, yet I want to help stations out by spotting them.

Joe WB9SBD





AB2ZY
 

If I were adjudicating a contest and had information that someone entered as unassisted was connected to a cluster and posting spots during the contest they would be DQ, especially if they finished anywhere near the top.

 

Al

AB2ZY

 

From: N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io [mailto:N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io] On Behalf Of Jim W7RY
Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2020 11:03 PM
To: N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io
Subject: Re: [N1MM+] Spotting

 

In what sort of contest? Which mode?



Thanks
73
Jim W7RY

On 1/22/2020 1:26 PM, Joe WB9SBD wrote:

In N1MM+, is there a way to spot someone, but not be as being assisted?

Like I want to run un-assisted, yet I want to help stations out by spotting them.

Joe WB9SBD



 

Pete Smith
 

All major cluster software packages have provision for stopping user receipt of spots while still staying connected.  For example, AR Cluster V6 uses SET DX OUTPUT OFF/ON.

I disagree with Al that connection = assistance, while at the same time I wouldn't be surprised if some contest adjudicators take this position. I think they are operating on the theory that it is just too hard to prove *receipt* of spots, as opposed to connection to a cluster. I suppose the same logic would apply to having a 1500-watt amp on the desk during a 100-watt contest.  How can they tell I did not turn it on? 

Fact is, power cheating is much more common, IMO, and we all know how hard that is to prove.

73, Pete N4ZR

Check out the Reverse Beacon Network 
at <http://reversebeacon.net>, now 
spotting RTTY activity worldwide. 
For spots, please use your favorite 
"retail" DX cluster.
On 1/23/2020 12:00 AM, AB2ZY wrote:

If I were adjudicating a contest and had information that someone entered as unassisted was connected to a cluster and posting spots during the contest they would be DQ, especially if they finished anywhere near the top.

 

Al

AB2ZY

 

From: N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io [mailto:N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io] On Behalf Of Jim W7RY
Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2020 11:03 PM
To: N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io
Subject: Re: [N1MM+] Spotting

 

In what sort of contest? Which mode?



Thanks
73
Jim W7RY

On 1/22/2020 1:26 PM, Joe WB9SBD wrote:

In N1MM+, is there a way to spot someone, but not be as being assisted?

Like I want to run un-assisted, yet I want to help stations out by spotting them.

Joe WB9SBD



 

Joe WB9SBD
 

Exactly!

That's what I was worried about happening.  So the question is there a way to spot anyone, yet for me to have zero access to the spots.

Joe WB9SBD

On 1/22/2020 11:00 PM, AB2ZY wrote:

If I were adjudicating a contest and had information that someone entered as unassisted was connected to a cluster and posting spots during the contest they would be DQ, especially if they finished anywhere near the top.

 

Al

AB2ZY

 

From: N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io [mailto:N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io] On Behalf Of Jim W7RY
Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2020 11:03 PM
To: N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io
Subject: Re: [N1MM+] Spotting

 

In what sort of contest? Which mode?



Thanks
73
Jim W7RY

On 1/22/2020 1:26 PM, Joe WB9SBD wrote:

In N1MM+, is there a way to spot someone, but not be as being assisted?

Like I want to run un-assisted, yet I want to help stations out by spotting them.

Joe WB9SBD



 


Joe WB9SBD
 

Pete how would you do this using N1MM+?

For example, AR Cluster V6 uses SET DX OUTPUT OFF/ON.

I suppose maybe asking each contest sponsor what their policy would be I guess to be safe.

Joe WB9SBD

On 1/23/2020 7:11 AM, Pete Smith wrote:

All major cluster software packages have provision for stopping user receipt of spots while still staying connected.  For example, AR Cluster V6 uses SET DX OUTPUT OFF/ON.

I disagree with Al that connection = assistance, while at the same time I wouldn't be surprised if some contest adjudicators take this position. I think they are operating on the theory that it is just too hard to prove *receipt* of spots, as opposed to connection to a cluster. I suppose the same logic would apply to having a 1500-watt amp on the desk during a 100-watt contest.  How can they tell I did not turn it on? 

Fact is, power cheating is much more common, IMO, and we all know how hard that is to prove.

73, Pete N4ZR

Check out the Reverse Beacon Network 
at <http://reversebeacon.net>, now 
spotting RTTY activity worldwide. 
For spots, please use your favorite 
"retail" DX cluster.
On 1/23/2020 12:00 AM, AB2ZY wrote:

If I were adjudicating a contest and had information that someone entered as unassisted was connected to a cluster and posting spots during the contest they would be DQ, especially if they finished anywhere near the top.

 

Al

AB2ZY

 

From: N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io [mailto:N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io] On Behalf Of Jim W7RY
Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2020 11:03 PM
To: N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io
Subject: Re: [N1MM+] Spotting

 

In what sort of contest? Which mode?



Thanks
73
Jim W7RY

On 1/22/2020 1:26 PM, Joe WB9SBD wrote:

In N1MM+, is there a way to spot someone, but not be as being assisted?

Like I want to run un-assisted, yet I want to help stations out by spotting them.

Joe WB9SBD



 


Gary K9GS
 

If you're talking about CW or Digital contests manual spotting is irrelevant. 




73,

Gary K9GS


-------- Original message --------
From: Joe WB9SBD <nss@...>
Date: 1/23/20 8:41 AM (GMT-06:00)
To: N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io
Subject: Re: [N1MM+] Spotting

Pete how would you do this using N1MM+?

For example, AR Cluster V6 uses SET DX OUTPUT OFF/ON.

I suppose maybe asking each contest sponsor what their policy would be I guess to be safe.

Joe WB9SBD

On 1/23/2020 7:11 AM, Pete Smith wrote:

All major cluster software packages have provision for stopping user receipt of spots while still staying connected.  For example, AR Cluster V6 uses SET DX OUTPUT OFF/ON.

I disagree with Al that connection = assistance, while at the same time I wouldn't be surprised if some contest adjudicators take this position. I think they are operating on the theory that it is just too hard to prove *receipt* of spots, as opposed to connection to a cluster. I suppose the same logic would apply to having a 1500-watt amp on the desk during a 100-watt contest.  How can they tell I did not turn it on? 

Fact is, power cheating is much more common, IMO, and we all know how hard that is to prove.

73, Pete N4ZR

Check out the Reverse Beacon Network 
at <http://reversebeacon.net>, now 
spotting RTTY activity worldwide. 
For spots, please use your favorite 
"retail" DX cluster.
On 1/23/2020 12:00 AM, AB2ZY wrote:

If I were adjudicating a contest and had information that someone entered as unassisted was connected to a cluster and posting spots during the contest they would be DQ, especially if they finished anywhere near the top.

 

Al

AB2ZY

 

From: N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io [mailto:N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io] On Behalf Of Jim W7RY
Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2020 11:03 PM
To: N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io
Subject: Re: [N1MM+] Spotting

 

In what sort of contest? Which mode?



Thanks
73
Jim W7RY

On 1/22/2020 1:26 PM, Joe WB9SBD wrote:

In N1MM+, is there a way to spot someone, but not be as being assisted?

Like I want to run un-assisted, yet I want to help stations out by spotting them.

Joe WB9SBD



 


Max NG7M
 

I don’t take Al’s position either.  I connect and disable spots, but still send spots for those operating assisted.  And I enter not assisted.  Cheaters will cheat regardless and penalizing folks because you connect to a cluster isn’t a solution.  Max NG7M

Joe WB9SBD
 

true!

On 1/23/2020 8:59 AM, Gary K9GS wrote:
If you're talking about CW or Digital contests manual spotting is irrelevant. 




73,

Gary K9GS


-------- Original message --------
From: Joe WB9SBD <nss@...>
Date: 1/23/20 8:41 AM (GMT-06:00)
Subject: Re: [N1MM+] Spotting

Pete how would you do this using N1MM+?

For example, AR Cluster V6 uses SET DX OUTPUT OFF/ON.

I suppose maybe asking each contest sponsor what their policy would be I guess to be safe.

Joe WB9SBD

On 1/23/2020 7:11 AM, Pete Smith wrote:

All major cluster software packages have provision for stopping user receipt of spots while still staying connected.  For example, AR Cluster V6 uses SET DX OUTPUT OFF/ON.

I disagree with Al that connection = assistance, while at the same time I wouldn't be surprised if some contest adjudicators take this position. I think they are operating on the theory that it is just too hard to prove *receipt* of spots, as opposed to connection to a cluster. I suppose the same logic would apply to having a 1500-watt amp on the desk during a 100-watt contest.  How can they tell I did not turn it on? 

Fact is, power cheating is much more common, IMO, and we all know how hard that is to prove.

73, Pete N4ZR

Check out the Reverse Beacon Network 
at <http://reversebeacon.net>, now 
spotting RTTY activity worldwide. 
For spots, please use your favorite 
"retail" DX cluster.
On 1/23/2020 12:00 AM, AB2ZY wrote:

If I were adjudicating a contest and had information that someone entered as unassisted was connected to a cluster and posting spots during the contest they would be DQ, especially if they finished anywhere near the top.

 

Al

AB2ZY

 

From: N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io [mailto:N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io] On Behalf Of Jim W7RY
Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2020 11:03 PM
To: N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io
Subject: Re: [N1MM+] Spotting

 

In what sort of contest? Which mode?



Thanks
73
Jim W7RY

On 1/22/2020 1:26 PM, Joe WB9SBD wrote:

In N1MM+, is there a way to spot someone, but not be as being assisted?

Like I want to run un-assisted, yet I want to help stations out by spotting them.

Joe WB9SBD



 



Max NG7M
 

Gary I respectfully disagree with your comment.  Manually spotting stations is critical.  Many operators still do no know how to take advantage of skimmer spots and this trend is not good to assume everyone knows how to use skinner spots and or assume everyone lives in an area with close skimmer server coverage.  Plus in some contests call signs are unique to where skimmers wont even spot some call signs.  It’s sad there is lazy trend to not manually spot stations in cw or rtty contests. IMHO .... Max NG7M

Paul Evans W4/VP9KF
 

You need to read the rules. The gold standard is clearly CQWW:

QSO finding assistance: The use of any technology or other source that provides call sign or multiplier identification of a signal to the operator. This includes, but is not limited to, use of a CW decoder, DX cluster, DX spotting web sites (e.g., DX Summit), local or remote call sign and frequency decoding technology (e.g., CW Skimmer or Reverse Beacon Network), or operating arrangements involving other individuals.

If you are running a CWSkimmer locally you are assisted. If you are connected (appear in the USERS list) of a DX Cluster you are assisted and cannot prove otherwise. Packet frames are passing between you and an assistance source.

In a former life I was a member of the RSGB HF Contests Committee and it was at the time that this technology was emerging. Assisted vs. un-assisted had to be invented and then defined. We warned and then disqualified several people and they were not allowed in contests for 5 years.

Besides, contest organisers talk to each other. You DO NOT want to either come under suspicion OR be disqualified because your contesting days will essentially be over. Understand?

Joe WB9SBD
 

so I guess there is no way to do it without danger to the spotter..

Bummer!

Joe WB9SBD

On 1/23/2020 9:34 AM, Paul Evans W4/VP9KF wrote:
You need to read the rules. The gold standard is clearly CQWW:

QSO finding assistance: The use of any technology or other source that provides call sign or multiplier identification of a signal to the operator. This includes, but is not limited to, use of a CW decoder, DX cluster, DX spotting web sites (e.g., DX Summit), local or remote call sign and frequency decoding technology (e.g., CW Skimmer or Reverse Beacon Network), or operating arrangements involving other individuals.

If you are running a CWSkimmer locally you are assisted. If you are connected (appear in the USERS list) of a DX Cluster you are assisted and cannot prove otherwise. Packet frames are passing between you and an assistance source.

In a former life I was a member of the RSGB HF Contests Committee and it was at the time that this technology was emerging. Assisted vs. un-assisted had to be invented and then defined. We warned and then disqualified several people and they were not allowed in contests for 5 years.

Besides, contest organisers talk to each other. You DO NOT want to either come under suspicion OR be disqualified because your contesting days will essentially be over. Understand?





Tom - N1MM
 

Please take this discussion to CQ-Contest.
Thread is locked. 

Tom - N1MM