Something else is running that you haven't told us about...

>the tuner freezes and the following message appears

What tuner?

-larry K8UT

------ Original Message ------

From: paul.holmes46@...

To: N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io

Sent: 2019-08-26 09:14:48

Subject: [N1MM+] comport conflict

Hi
I think there may be an incorrect config entry in my program
. I only use CW with win XP, Winkeyer USB and Digimaster serial to USB using a virtual comport.
Displaying device manager shows ;
comport COM 1
Comport COM 2
printer port LPT 1
Plugging in Winkeyer - USB serial port com 4
Plugging in Digimaster - USB serial port COM 5
N1MM+ tunes all freqs, all bands and keys them.
When I start a contest and start to key, the tuner freezes and the following message appears-
"Receiving UDP N1MMsocket 13064 is already in use. COM 5 is in use by another program but the port is also configured in N1MM Logger.  The comport will not work in N1MM Logger until this is corrected"
My Config readings are
Com 5 FT 450 9600 n 8 2 DTR always on  RTS always on  1 radio polling rate normal  ticked
Com 4 CW tick DTR always on  RTS always off  VFO 1 ptt 30  Winkey ticked
Radio yaesu ft 450 catrate 9600 same as program
In config - broadcast data nothing is ticked.  Is it possible that a setting in digi or other section could be interfering with the CW ?
I had a similar problem on another PC
Would appreciate your advice.
Paul/M0SEV

Sorry, it's not a tuner, I mean the radio which is "tuned" by the digimaster.

Another message received is "This action cannot be completed because the other application is busy. Choose “switch to “ to activate the busy application and correct the problem
Switch to        retry"

This locks up everything and I have to switch off at the wall

It doesnt say what program it  is and pressing   switch to   or    reset

does nothing. This appears with N1MM classic which I've used for years and never a hitch.

The first sign of trouble was when the radio ceased communicating with  N1MM.   I was told it was probably the catlead altho why a good lead should rupture I don't know but I bought a new serial lead and that didn't work either so I got a serial to usb  Digimaster with an ftdi chip and that works fine, all freqs, all bands.

If another prog was running using com 5 would it not appear on device manager before I plugged in winkey and radio.

Using two PC's, com 3 always defaults to winkeyer  and the others are virtual comports from Digimaster.

This N1mmsocket 13064 seem to be a messaging device but in config-broadcast data nothing is ticked.

I tried tuning/testing the radio using a laptop with win 7 and that worked but I haven't tried it in a contest yet, and that's when it happens, although in the IARU contest it ran continuously.

On Mon, Aug 26, 2019 at 4:03 PM Larry K8UT <K8UT@...> wrote:

Something else is running that you haven't told us about...

>the tuner freezes and the following message appears

What tuner?

-larry K8UT

------ Original Message ------

From: paul.holmes46@...

To: N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io

Sent: 2019-08-26 09:14:48

Subject: [N1MM+] comport conflict

Hi
I think there may be an incorrect config entry in my program
. I only use CW with win XP, Winkeyer USB and Digimaster serial to USB using a virtual comport.
Displaying device manager shows ;
comport COM 1
Comport COM 2
printer port LPT 1
Plugging in Winkeyer - USB serial port com 4
Plugging in Digimaster - USB serial port COM 5
N1MM+ tunes all freqs, all bands and keys them.
When I start a contest and start to key, the tuner freezes and the following message appears-
"Receiving UDP N1MMsocket 13064 is already in use. COM 5 is in use by another program but the port is also configured in N1MM Logger.  The comport will not work in N1MM Logger until this is corrected"
My Config readings are
Com 5 FT 450 9600 n 8 2 DTR always on  RTS always on  1 radio polling rate normal  ticked
Com 4 CW tick DTR always on  RTS always off  VFO 1 ptt 30  Winkey ticked
Radio yaesu ft 450 catrate 9600 same as program
In config - broadcast data nothing is ticked.  Is it possible that a setting in digi or other section could be interfering with the CW ?
I had a similar problem on another PC
Would appreciate your advice.
Paul/M0SEV

You said "If another prog was running using com 5 would it not appear on device manager before I plugged in winkey and radio". No, device manager does not report whether an application program is using a port, it merely reports that the port exists in your system, regardless of whether it is currently in use or not. If some other program is using COM5 before N1MM+ starts up, N1MM+ will be unable to open COM5 and will tell you so at startup. If N1MM+ is able to open and use COM5, then there is no other program using it at that time.

If N1MM+ is able to open COM5 and use it to communicate with the radio initially, and subsequently it starts issuing error messages related to COM5, something is going seriously wrong inside the computer. If the start of the problems coincides with the beginning of transmitting, or perhaps with the beginning of transmitting on a particular band or a particular mode or with a particular antenna, that is a very strong clue as to the cause of the problems.

In your first message, you said, in part: "..."N1MM+ tunes all freqs, all bands ... When I start a contest and start to key, ..." and then problems start to happen. This is a classic description of an RFI problem. Peripheral devices (keyboards, mice, almost anything using USB) are particularly susceptible to RFI, and coupling of RF from a nearby transmitter onto the wires connecting these devices to the computer can introduce all sorts of spurious signals into the computer that can result in all kinds of crazy behaviour, including generating error messages that have nothing to do with the actual cause of the problem. Do the problems still happen if you reduce transmitted power to a very low level and/or use a dummy load?

73,
Rich VE3KI


On Mon, Aug 26, 2019 at 02:33 PM, Paul Holmes wrote:

Sorry, it's not a tuner, I mean the radio which is "tuned" by the digimaster.

Another message received is "This action cannot be completed because the other application is busy. Choose “switch to “ to activate the busy application and correct the problem
Switch to        retry"

This locks up everything and I have to switch off at the wall

It doesnt say what program it  is and pressing   switch to   or    reset

does nothing. This appears with N1MM classic which I've used for years and never a hitch.

The first sign of trouble was when the radio ceased communicating with  N1MM.   I was told it was probably the catlead altho why a good lead should rupture I don't know but I bought a new serial lead and that didn't work either so I got a serial to usb  Digimaster with an ftdi chip and that works fine, all freqs, all bands.

If another prog was running using com 5 would it not appear on device manager before I plugged in winkey and radio.

Using two PC's, com 3 always defaults to winkeyer  and the others are virtual comports from Digimaster.

This N1mmsocket 13064 seem to be a messaging device but in config-broadcast data nothing is ticked.

I tried tuning/testing the radio using a laptop with win 7 and that worked but I haven't tried it in a contest yet, and that's when it happens, although in the IARU contest it ran continuously.

On Mon, Aug 26, 2019 at 4:03 PM Larry K8UT <K8UT@...> wrote:

Something else is running that you haven't told us about...

 

>the tuner freezes and the following message appears

What tuner?

 

 

-larry K8UT

------ Original Message ------

From: paul.holmes46@...

To: N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io

Sent: 2019-08-26 09:14:48

Subject: [N1MM+] comport conflict

 

Hi
I think there may be an incorrect config entry in my program
. I only use CW with win XP, Winkeyer USB and Digimaster serial to USB using a virtual comport.
Displaying device manager shows ;
comport COM 1
Comport COM 2
printer port LPT 1
Plugging in Winkeyer - USB serial port com 4
Plugging in Digimaster - USB serial port COM 5
N1MM+ tunes all freqs, all bands and keys them.
When I start a contest and start to key, the tuner freezes and the following message appears-
"Receiving UDP N1MMsocket 13064 is already in use. COM 5 is in use by another program but the port is also configured in N1MM Logger.  The comport will not work in N1MM Logger until this is corrected"
My Config readings are
Com 5 FT 450 9600 n 8 2 DTR always on  RTS always on  1 radio polling rate normal  ticked
Com 4 CW tick DTR always on  RTS always off  VFO 1 ptt 30  Winkey ticked
Radio yaesu ft 450 catrate 9600 same as program
In config - broadcast data nothing is ticked.  Is it possible that a setting in digi or other section could be interfering with the CW ?
I had a similar problem on another PC
Would appreciate your advice.
Paul/M0SEV

 

 

Many thanks guys
I have tried every combination of setups between N1mm, radio, COM 3 winkey and COM 6, the virtual COMport of the rs232 to usb lead and find that  by opening the device manager it can be seen that if the COM 6 lead is inserted first it shows on device manager, then when COM 3 lead is inserted, COM 6 is shunted off and only COM 3 shows, also chaos reigns, freezing ,etc. So com 3 always first.
This could explain why N1mm worked flawlessly in the IARU contest a while ago, and why it always worked well before, when I used a serial lead. I set up a contest on a dummy load and all ok, so  I’ll know on Saturday if this is the answer.
I use a half G5RV antenna with 100 watts max and  only use CW. I have never had  rfi issues
This begs the question why a good serial lead should fail and also a new replacement lead on both PC’s
Two duff leads is stretching it a bit but not impossible I suppose.  Do they need drivers ?
Also  I get a lot of background noise on 10 , 14, 24 , 28 Mhz which seem to increase when I plug in the RS232 lead. Is it coming from the radio into the PC and back thru winkey?
Would a toroidal ring wound into the  input coax be the answer or ferrite rings somewhere?
Thanks for  your advice, if things run smoothly in the SAC contest it may benefit someone on the forum.
I’ll let you know anyway.
73
Paul/M0SEV

On Mon, Aug 26, 2019 at 9:00 PM ve3ki <ve3iay@...> wrote:

You said "If another prog was running using com 5 would it not appear on device manager before I plugged in winkey and radio". No, device manager does not report whether an application program is using a port, it merely reports that the port exists in your system, regardless of whether it is currently in use or not. If some other program is using COM5 before N1MM+ starts up, N1MM+ will be unable to open COM5 and will tell you so at startup. If N1MM+ is able to open and use COM5, then there is no other program using it at that time.

If N1MM+ is able to open COM5 and use it to communicate with the radio initially, and subsequently it starts issuing error messages related to COM5, something is going seriously wrong inside the computer. If the start of the problems coincides with the beginning of transmitting, or perhaps with the beginning of transmitting on a particular band or a particular mode or with a particular antenna, that is a very strong clue as to the cause of the problems.

In your first message, you said, in part: "..."N1MM+ tunes all freqs, all bands ... When I start a contest and start to key, ..." and then problems start to happen. This is a classic description of an RFI problem. Peripheral devices (keyboards, mice, almost anything using USB) are particularly susceptible to RFI, and coupling of RF from a nearby transmitter onto the wires connecting these devices to the computer can introduce all sorts of spurious signals into the computer that can result in all kinds of crazy behaviour, including generating error messages that have nothing to do with the actual cause of the problem. Do the problems still happen if you reduce transmitted power to a very low level and/or use a dummy load?

73,
Rich VE3KI


On Mon, Aug 26, 2019 at 02:33 PM, Paul Holmes wrote:

Sorry, it's not a tuner, I mean the radio which is "tuned" by the digimaster.

Another message received is "This action cannot be completed because the other application is busy. Choose “switch to “ to activate the busy application and correct the problem
Switch to        retry"

This locks up everything and I have to switch off at the wall

It doesnt say what program it  is and pressing   switch to   or    reset

does nothing. This appears with N1MM classic which I've used for years and never a hitch.

The first sign of trouble was when the radio ceased communicating with  N1MM.   I was told it was probably the catlead altho why a good lead should rupture I don't know but I bought a new serial lead and that didn't work either so I got a serial to usb  Digimaster with an ftdi chip and that works fine, all freqs, all bands.

If another prog was running using com 5 would it not appear on device manager before I plugged in winkey and radio.

Using two PC's, com 3 always defaults to winkeyer  and the others are virtual comports from Digimaster.

This N1mmsocket 13064 seem to be a messaging device but in config-broadcast data nothing is ticked.

I tried tuning/testing the radio using a laptop with win 7 and that worked but I haven't tried it in a contest yet, and that's when it happens, although in the IARU contest it ran continuously.

On Mon, Aug 26, 2019 at 4:03 PM Larry K8UT <K8UT@...> wrote:

Something else is running that you haven't told us about...

 

>the tuner freezes and the following message appears

What tuner?

 

 

-larry K8UT

------ Original Message ------

From: paul.holmes46@...

To: N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io

Sent: 2019-08-26 09:14:48

Subject: [N1MM+] comport conflict

 

Hi
I think there may be an incorrect config entry in my program
. I only use CW with win XP, Winkeyer USB and Digimaster serial to USB using a virtual comport.
Displaying device manager shows ;
comport COM 1
Comport COM 2
printer port LPT 1
Plugging in Winkeyer - USB serial port com 4
Plugging in Digimaster - USB serial port COM 5
N1MM+ tunes all freqs, all bands and keys them.
When I start a contest and start to key, the tuner freezes and the following message appears-
"Receiving UDP N1MMsocket 13064 is already in use. COM 5 is in use by another program but the port is also configured in N1MM Logger.  The comport will not work in N1MM Logger until this is corrected"
My Config readings are
Com 5 FT 450 9600 n 8 2 DTR always on  RTS always on  1 radio polling rate normal  ticked
Com 4 CW tick DTR always on  RTS always off  VFO 1 ptt 30  Winkey ticked
Radio yaesu ft 450 catrate 9600 same as program
In config - broadcast data nothing is ticked.  Is it possible that a setting in digi or other section could be interfering with the CW ?
I had a similar problem on another PC
Would appreciate your advice.
Paul/M0SEV

 

 

Paul,

It sounds like you have successfully confirmed this as an RFI issue. There are tons of folks running Winkeyers, but every shack is a little different when it comes to RFI. You can attack this from the transmitting side (lower power, common mode chokes, resonant antennas, ...) or from the receiving side (shielding the Winkeyer and its cable)

On the receiving side, examine the USB cable connecting your PC to your Winkeyer. There are good cables and bad cables - the worst are simple 4 conductor wires without a shield. You might try substituting different cables to see if that solves the problem.

Regarding clip-on ferrite cores - the more the better. And if you can loop the cable through the core several times even more better. I have always thought that you should position them closer to the affected device (the Winkeyer), but others have argued that it doesn't matter. I guess the right answer is to put them where it works.

Is your connection directly from PC -to- Winkeyer? We have had reports of RFI ingress from USB port expanders.

-larry (K8UT)

------ Original Message ------

From: "Paul Holmes" <paul.holmes46@...>

To: N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io

Sent: 2019-09-25 10:12:28

Subject: Re: [N1MM+] comport conflict

Hi

Well that's kicked my theory into touch. The SAC contest started and the first 7 qso's went well, then it started. I changed to the second PC but that was as bad. I spent more time rebooting than operating so I packed it in. If this is rfi wouldn't it occur immediately ?

What else is there, is the usb catlead device likely to conflict with winkeyer ?  I would like to hear what combination of catlead and keyer the members use.  In case of rfi I have some clipon ferrite cores and a toroid

Whereabouts should these be placed ?

Everything works fine with the dummy load at all speeds.

This is so annoying

Paul/M0SEV

On Thu, Sep 19, 2019 at 4:38 PM Paul Holmes via Groups.Io <paul.holmes46=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

Many thanks guys
I have tried every combination of setups between N1mm, radio, COM 3 winkey and COM 6, the virtual COMport of the rs232 to usb lead and find that  by opening the device manager it can be seen that if the COM 6 lead is inserted first it shows on device manager, then when COM 3 lead is inserted, COM 6 is shunted off and only COM 3 shows, also chaos reigns, freezing ,etc. So com 3 always first.
This could explain why N1mm worked flawlessly in the IARU contest a while ago, and why it always worked well before, when I used a serial lead. I set up a contest on a dummy load and all ok, so  I’ll know on Saturday if this is the answer.
I use a half G5RV antenna with 100 watts max and  only use CW. I have never had  rfi issues
This begs the question why a good serial lead should fail and also a new replacement lead on both PC’s
Two duff leads is stretching it a bit but not impossible I suppose.  Do they need drivers ?
Also  I get a lot of background noise on 10 , 14, 24 , 28 Mhz which seem to increase when I plug in the RS232 lead. Is it coming from the radio into the PC and back thru winkey?
Would a toroidal ring wound into the  input coax be the answer or ferrite rings somewhere?
Thanks for  your advice, if things run smoothly in the SAC contest it may benefit someone on the forum.
I’ll let you know anyway.
73
Paul/M0SEV

On Mon, Aug 26, 2019 at 9:00 PM ve3ki <ve3iay@...> wrote:

You said "If another prog was running using com 5 would it not appear on device manager before I plugged in winkey and radio". No, device manager does not report whether an application program is using a port, it merely reports that the port exists in your system, regardless of whether it is currently in use or not. If some other program is using COM5 before N1MM+ starts up, N1MM+ will be unable to open COM5 and will tell you so at startup. If N1MM+ is able to open and use COM5, then there is no other program using it at that time.

If N1MM+ is able to open COM5 and use it to communicate with the radio initially, and subsequently it starts issuing error messages related to COM5, something is going seriously wrong inside the computer. If the start of the problems coincides with the beginning of transmitting, or perhaps with the beginning of transmitting on a particular band or a particular mode or with a particular antenna, that is a very strong clue as to the cause of the problems.

In your first message, you said, in part: "..."N1MM+ tunes all freqs, all bands ... When I start a contest and start to key, ..." and then problems start to happen. This is a classic description of an RFI problem. Peripheral devices (keyboards, mice, almost anything using USB) are particularly susceptible to RFI, and coupling of RF from a nearby transmitter onto the wires connecting these devices to the computer can introduce all sorts of spurious signals into the computer that can result in all kinds of crazy behaviour, including generating error messages that have nothing to do with the actual cause of the problem. Do the problems still happen if you reduce transmitted power to a very low level and/or use a dummy load?

73,
Rich VE3KI


On Mon, Aug 26, 2019 at 02:33 PM, Paul Holmes wrote:

Sorry, it's not a tuner, I mean the radio which is "tuned" by the digimaster.

Another message received is "This action cannot be completed because the other application is busy. Choose “switch to “ to activate the busy application and correct the problem
Switch to        retry"

This locks up everything and I have to switch off at the wall

It doesnt say what program it  is and pressing   switch to   or    reset

does nothing. This appears with N1MM classic which I've used for years and never a hitch.

The first sign of trouble was when the radio ceased communicating with  N1MM.   I was told it was probably the catlead altho why a good lead should rupture I don't know but I bought a new serial lead and that didn't work either so I got a serial to usb  Digimaster with an ftdi chip and that works fine, all freqs, all bands.

If another prog was running using com 5 would it not appear on device manager before I plugged in winkey and radio.

Using two PC's, com 3 always defaults to winkeyer  and the others are virtual comports from Digimaster.

This N1mmsocket 13064 seem to be a messaging device but in config-broadcast data nothing is ticked.

I tried tuning/testing the radio using a laptop with win 7 and that worked but I haven't tried it in a contest yet, and that's when it happens, although in the IARU contest it ran continuously.

On Mon, Aug 26, 2019 at 4:03 PM Larry K8UT <K8UT@...> wrote:

Something else is running that you haven't told us about...

 

>the tuner freezes and the following message appears

What tuner?

 

 

-larry K8UT

------ Original Message ------

From: paul.holmes46@...

To: N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io

Sent: 2019-08-26 09:14:48

Subject: [N1MM+] comport conflict

 

Hi
I think there may be an incorrect config entry in my program
. I only use CW with win XP, Winkeyer USB and Digimaster serial to USB using a virtual comport.
Displaying device manager shows ;
comport COM 1
Comport COM 2
printer port LPT 1
Plugging in Winkeyer - USB serial port com 4
Plugging in Digimaster - USB serial port COM 5
N1MM+ tunes all freqs, all bands and keys them.
When I start a contest and start to key, the tuner freezes and the following message appears-
"Receiving UDP N1MMsocket 13064 is already in use. COM 5 is in use by another program but the port is also configured in N1MM Logger.  The comport will not work in N1MM Logger until this is corrected"
My Config readings are
Com 5 FT 450 9600 n 8 2 DTR always on  RTS always on  1 radio polling rate normal  ticked
Com 4 CW tick DTR always on  RTS always off  VFO 1 ptt 30  Winkey ticked
Radio yaesu ft 450 catrate 9600 same as program
In config - broadcast data nothing is ticked.  Is it possible that a setting in digi or other section could be interfering with the CW ?
I had a similar problem on another PC
Would appreciate your advice.
Paul/M0SEV