Topics

Tab / Space behaviour on VHF contests

Patrick Herborn
 

Good afternoon all!

This question / feature request pertains to the action of Tab and Space
when in a VHF contest. Space is most useful insofar as it will pre-fill
the locator information if pressed in the Callsign field (if using
history lookup), BUT in doing so it jumps directly to the received
serial box, pre-filling the sent and received reports with 59.

This behaviour is fine on HF contests, but we tend to send real signal
reports, which means one then has to go back to correct the pre-filled
signal reports. Occasionally one might have to correct the locator
for a /P but that's just life.

One way of avoiding this is to use the Tab key - this steps through
the fields and permits entry of RS(T) and serial, but then it doesn't
pre-fill the locator. Kind of damned if you do, damned if you don't.
It would be useful to have an option for Space (or some other key)
to pre-fill the locator only, and jump to the relevant next
field (as discussed below).

An additional improvement might be to change the Tab order of the
fields - again this is related to the use of real signal reports.
The default behaviour is to go from the callsign to the sent
signal report - this is fine in Run mode where you just have
to give the best report you can based on receiving just a callsign,
but in S&P you get your report from the Run station, which
allows a better determination of an accurate signal report, ergo
the sent report tends to get filled in last. It would be helpful
to have an option to change the tab (or space or other key) order to
Callsign->RxRST->RxSn->Loc->SntRST - perhaps tracking Run/S&P state.

These things may of course already be possible - I just haven't found a
way of doing it - in which case I should be grateful for any hints /
tips / instructions.

Best regards,

Pat (M0MGO).

--
Patrick Herborn <pat@...>

N6KW Chuck Miller
 

I think the reason for this behavior is that American VHF contests don't use signal reports; we just exchange grids. But we'll see what the N1MM team has to say...

73, Chuck N6KW

On 2019-07-17 07:33, Patrick Herborn wrote:
Good afternoon all!

This question / feature request pertains to the action of Tab and Space
when in a VHF contest. Space is most useful insofar as it will pre-fill
the locator information if pressed in the Callsign field (if using
history lookup), BUT in doing so it jumps directly to the received
serial box, pre-filling the sent and received reports with 59.

This behaviour is fine on HF contests, but we tend to send real signal 
reports, which means one then has to go back to correct the pre-filled
signal reports. Occasionally one might have to correct the locator
for a /P but that's just life.

One way of avoiding this is to use the Tab key - this steps through
the fields and permits entry of RS(T) and serial, but then it doesn't
pre-fill the locator. Kind of damned if you do, damned if you don't.
It would be useful to have an option for Space (or some other key)
to pre-fill the locator only, and jump to the relevant next
field (as discussed below). 

An additional improvement might be to change the Tab order of the
fields - again this is related to the use of real signal reports.
The default behaviour is to go from the callsign to the sent
signal report - this is fine in Run mode where you just have
to give the best report you can based on receiving just a callsign,
but in S&P you get your report from the Run station, which 
allows a better determination of an accurate signal report, ergo
the sent report tends to get filled in last. It would be helpful
to have an option to change the tab (or space or other key) order to
Callsign->RxRST->RxSn->Loc->SntRST - perhaps tracking Run/S&P state.

These things may of course already be possible - I just haven't found a 
way of doing it - in which case I should be grateful for any hints /
tips / instructions.

Best regards,

Pat (M0MGO).


VE9AA - Mike
 

Honestly, nobody cares about a real signal report in any contest I've ever entered.  VHF incl)
If I ever rec'd one (I suppose I get 1 per contest), it still gets filled in as 59 or 599 and
nobody has ever lost a QSO. (the sponsors aren't checking your 579 against the received 559 reports, so far as I know)

IMO, you should reserve your real signal reports for on the air real weekday QSO's, not contest QSO's where the 59 or 599 is a mere place holder or a "get ready" (for the real exchange), which is normally a grid square in most VHF contests.

Maybe it's a lot different in EU or the UK, but . . . .

GL

Mike VE9AA...VHFer for decades

Michael Walker
 

I agree.

In a contest I have always used 59 or 599 and to the best of my knowledge, I have never lost a QSO due to that.  

Serial number or some other info?  yes

Mike va3mw


On Wed, Jul 17, 2019 at 4:37 PM VE9AA - Mike <ve9aa@...> wrote:
Honestly, nobody cares about a real signal report in any contest I've ever entered.  VHF incl)
If I ever rec'd one (I suppose I get 1 per contest), it still gets filled in as 59 or 599 and
nobody has ever lost a QSO. (the sponsors aren't checking your 579 against the received 559 reports, so far as I know)

IMO, you should reserve your real signal reports for on the air real weekday QSO's, not contest QSO's where the 59 or 599 is a mere place holder or a "get ready" (for the real exchange), which is normally a grid square in most VHF contests.

Maybe it's a lot different in EU or the UK, but . . . .

GL

Mike VE9AA...VHFer for decades

Gilbert Baron W0MN
 

Very true but in the 50s I remember a lot of contests where people gave a real report. It seems crazy to even have it as part of the exchange. I do not know if checkers in the 50s bothered with that either. In the days of paper logs I bet it was much more allowed to have some errors as long as the calls and other really important thigs were exchanged. In big contests with many entrants I bet a lot of logs were not checked carefully at all. Those with no chance for any significant score.

 

Outlook Laptop Gil W0MN

Hierro Candente Batir de Repente

44.08226N 92.51265 W en34rb

 

From: N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io <N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io> On Behalf Of Michael Walker
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2019 15:40
To: N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io
Subject: Re: [N1MM+] Tab / Space behaviour on VHF contests

 

I agree.

 

In a contest I have always used 59 or 599 and to the best of my knowledge, I have never lost a QSO due to that.  

 

Serial number or some other info?  yes

 

Mike va3mw

 

 

On Wed, Jul 17, 2019 at 4:37 PM VE9AA - Mike <ve9aa@...> wrote:

Honestly, nobody cares about a real signal report in any contest I've ever entered.  VHF incl)
If I ever rec'd one (I suppose I get 1 per contest), it still gets filled in as 59 or 599 and
nobody has ever lost a QSO. (the sponsors aren't checking your 579 against the received 559 reports, so far as I know)

IMO, you should reserve your real signal reports for on the air real weekday QSO's, not contest QSO's where the 59 or 599 is a mere place holder or a "get ready" (for the real exchange), which is normally a grid square in most VHF contests.

Maybe it's a lot different in EU or the UK, but . . . .

GL

Mike VE9AA...VHFer for decades

Dana Shtun
 

North America vhf contests all use grid - either 4 digits or 6 not signal report - it’s not needed
Dana ve3ds 



On Jul 17, 2019, at 4:40 PM, Michael Walker <va3mw@...> wrote:

I agree.

In a contest I have always used 59 or 599 and to the best of my knowledge, I have never lost a QSO due to that.  

Serial number or some other info?  yes

Mike va3mw


On Wed, Jul 17, 2019 at 4:37 PM VE9AA - Mike <ve9aa@...> wrote:
Honestly, nobody cares about a real signal report in any contest I've ever entered.  VHF incl)
If I ever rec'd one (I suppose I get 1 per contest), it still gets filled in as 59 or 599 and
nobody has ever lost a QSO. (the sponsors aren't checking your 579 against the received 559 reports, so far as I know)

IMO, you should reserve your real signal reports for on the air real weekday QSO's, not contest QSO's where the 59 or 599 is a mere place holder or a "get ready" (for the real exchange), which is normally a grid square in most VHF contests.

Maybe it's a lot different in EU or the UK, but . . . .

GL

Mike VE9AA...VHFer for decades

VE9AA - Mike
 

OK, but the 50's and paper were a lifetime ago.
We're talking about 2019 & computer logging.

BTW, I log all dupes as well !

;-)

My comments are not meant as confrontational....just trying to keep it realistic and on point.

73,
Mike VE9AA

On Wed, Jul 17, 2019 at 05:48 PM, Gilbert Baron W0MN wrote:

Very true but in the 50s I remember a lot of contests where people gave a real report. It seems crazy to even have it as part of the exchange. I do not know if checkers in the 50s bothered with that either. In the days of paper logs I bet it was much more allowed to have some errors as long as the calls and other really important thigs were exchanged. In big contests with many entrants I bet a lot of logs were not checked carefully at all. Those with no chance for any significant score.

 

Outlook Laptop Gil W0MN

andy@...
 

Things do appear to be very different across the pond, in the UK and Europe genuine signal reports are routinely given in V/UHF contests, and at least in the RSGB contests you WILL be penalised if you log any part of the exchange incorrectly.

After all the purpose of a contest is to pass information as quickly and accurately as possible, not to make up the contact details for the log..

You may have noticed that Pat's callsign places him as English, so he is also subject to these rules. and hence he has raised a perfectly valid query.

Perhaps we can now let someone answer Pats question.

Andy GD0AMD

John Bednar
 

Pat,

 

I just tested using the ARRL June VHF contest. As I expected, entering a callsign and pressing the Tab key DOES populate the exchange box from call history and place the cursor in the RST field.

 

The code also places the cursor in the RST box at the location to update the RST.

 

Pressing tab again advances the cursor to the RST box highlighting the correct character again.

 

John, K3CT

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io [mailto:N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io] On Behalf Of Patrick Herborn
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2019 10:34 AM
To: N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io
Subject: [N1MM+] Tab / Space behaviour on VHF contests

 

Good afternoon all!

 

This question / feature request pertains to the action of Tab and Space

when in a VHF contest. Space is most useful insofar as it will pre-fill

the locator information if pressed in the Callsign field (if using

history lookup), BUT in doing so it jumps directly to the received

serial box, pre-filling the sent and received reports with 59.

 

This behaviour is fine on HF contests, but we tend to send real signal

reports, which means one then has to go back to correct the pre-filled

signal reports. Occasionally one might have to correct the locator

for a /P but that's just life.

 

One way of avoiding this is to use the Tab key - this steps through

the fields and permits entry of RS(T) and serial, but then it doesn't

pre-fill the locator. Kind of damned if you do, damned if you don't.

It would be useful to have an option for Space (or some other key)

to pre-fill the locator only, and jump to the relevant next

field (as discussed below).

 

An additional improvement might be to change the Tab order of the

fields - again this is related to the use of real signal reports.

The default behaviour is to go from the callsign to the sent

signal report - this is fine in Run mode where you just have

to give the best report you can based on receiving just a callsign,

but in S&P you get your report from the Run station, which

allows a better determination of an accurate signal report, ergo

the sent report tends to get filled in last. It would be helpful

to have an option to change the tab (or space or other key) order to

Callsign->RxRST->RxSn->Loc->SntRST - perhaps tracking Run/S&P state.

 

These things may of course already be possible - I just haven't found a

way of doing it - in which case I should be grateful for any hints /

tips / instructions.

 

Best regards,

 

Pat (M0MGO).

 

--

Patrick Herborn <pat@...>

 

Ken McVie <kenmc@...>
 

Hey Pat, you don't really believe your S meter [guess meter] do you??

73
Ken ZL4NR

On 18/07/2019 2:33 AM, Patrick Herborn wrote:
Good afternoon all!

This question / feature request pertains to the action of Tab and Space
when in a VHF contest. Space is most useful insofar as it will pre-fill
the locator information if pressed in the Callsign field (if using
history lookup), BUT in doing so it jumps directly to the received
serial box, pre-filling the sent and received reports with 59.

This behaviour is fine on HF contests, but we tend to send real signal
reports, which means one then has to go back to correct the pre-filled
signal reports. Occasionally one might have to correct the locator
for a /P but that's just life.

One way of avoiding this is to use the Tab key - this steps through
the fields and permits entry of RS(T) and serial, but then it doesn't
pre-fill the locator. Kind of damned if you do, damned if you don't.
It would be useful to have an option for Space (or some other key)
to pre-fill the locator only, and jump to the relevant next
field (as discussed below).

An additional improvement might be to change the Tab order of the
fields - again this is related to the use of real signal reports.
The default behaviour is to go from the callsign to the sent
signal report - this is fine in Run mode where you just have
to give the best report you can based on receiving just a callsign,
but in S&P you get your report from the Run station, which
allows a better determination of an accurate signal report, ergo
the sent report tends to get filled in last. It would be helpful
to have an option to change the tab (or space or other key) order to
Callsign->RxRST->RxSn->Loc->SntRST - perhaps tracking Run/S&P state.

These things may of course already be possible - I just haven't found a
way of doing it - in which case I should be grateful for any hints /
tips / instructions.

Best regards,

Pat (M0MGO).

Patrick Herborn
 

On Wed, 17 Jul 2019 18:00:58 -0400
"John Bednar via Groups.Io" <k3ct=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Pat,
Hiya John!

I just tested using the ARRL June VHF contest. As I expected, entering a
callsign and pressing the Tab key DOES populate the exchange box from call
history and place the cursor in the RST field.
Oh, now that is very interesting! It doesn't do that on my installation -
if I tab from the Callsign box then it goes to Sent RST but doesn't fill
in the locator from the history - it only does it with space for me.

I wonder if this has something to do with the use of a UDC here ?

The code also places the cursor in the RST box at the location to update
the RST.
Yes, it does advance to the Sent RST for me also - if memory serves it is
placed after a 5 when using the tab (would need to check).

As Andy GD0AMD points out, we send real signal reports AND we are
penalised if we get them wrong - so they have to match. Real
signal reports means that the 5 is NOT a given - think we have
given out a 31 before now.... and someone even once sent out
something like a 40 which caused some controversy, since 0
suggests NO signal - when that operator probably MEANT the
signal wasn't moving the S meter at all. I digress. Correcting
a 5 is easy with the delete key when you're already past it,
but having to shift-tab (or mouse) all the way back (and then
also have to replace the default 59) is more of a pain.

I was careful to request this as an OPTION - that way it
means that it doesn't affect the normal operation for
those whose signal reports aren't important, but for those
of us penalised for getting them wrong, there is a more
fluid path available than what space bar offers right now.

Pressing tab again advances the cursor to the RST box highlighting the
correct character again.
Well, it looks like there is light at the end of this tunnel. That's
pretty much the way I would want it in Run mode, and worst case in
S&P one could tab twice past the locator to be back in the sent
signal report :) Just need to figure out how to make my copy do
that now :)

John, K3CT
Best regards,

Pat (M0MGO)


-----Original Message-----
From: N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io [mailto:N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io] On Behalf
Of Patrick Herborn
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2019 10:34 AM
To: N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io
Subject: [N1MM+] Tab / Space behaviour on VHF contests



Good afternoon all!



This question / feature request pertains to the action of Tab and Space

when in a VHF contest. Space is most useful insofar as it will pre-fill

the locator information if pressed in the Callsign field (if using

history lookup), BUT in doing so it jumps directly to the received

serial box, pre-filling the sent and received reports with 59.



This behaviour is fine on HF contests, but we tend to send real signal

reports, which means one then has to go back to correct the pre-filled

signal reports. Occasionally one might have to correct the locator

for a /P but that's just life.



One way of avoiding this is to use the Tab key - this steps through

the fields and permits entry of RS(T) and serial, but then it doesn't

pre-fill the locator. Kind of damned if you do, damned if you don't.

It would be useful to have an option for Space (or some other key)

to pre-fill the locator only, and jump to the relevant next

field (as discussed below).



An additional improvement might be to change the Tab order of the

fields - again this is related to the use of real signal reports.

The default behaviour is to go from the callsign to the sent

signal report - this is fine in Run mode where you just have

to give the best report you can based on receiving just a callsign,

but in S&P you get your report from the Run station, which

allows a better determination of an accurate signal report, ergo

the sent report tends to get filled in last. It would be helpful

to have an option to change the tab (or space or other key) order to

Callsign->RxRST->RxSn->Loc->SntRST - perhaps tracking Run/S&P state.



These things may of course already be possible - I just haven't found a

way of doing it - in which case I should be grateful for any hints /

tips / instructions.



Best regards,



Pat (M0MGO).



--

Patrick Herborn <pat@...>








--
Patrick Herborn <pat@...>

Patrick Herborn
 

On Thu, 18 Jul 2019 10:36:17 +1200
"Ken McVie" <kenmc@...> wrote:

Hey Pat,
Hiya Ken!

you don't really believe your S meter [guess meter] do you??
Oooohhh... now THAT could be an entire forum's worth of
discussion in its own right ;)

It is certainly true that many rigs' S meters are not calibrated.
I seem to recall much consternation that Icom didn't properly
calibrate the S meter on the 7610 for example (something you might
HOPE they would have done on a rig in that price bracket)... but
then on the flipside, I believe that SDRPlay DID take the time
and expend the effort to ensure that the S Meter readings
from RSPs are true (ironic, given how many of those you
could buy for the price of a single 7610!).

In the present context though, we are REQUIRED to correctly
log received signal reports and we are penalised if we get
them wrong - so even if the meters are telling us lies,
we still need logs to match.

73
Ken ZL4NR
Best regards,

Pat (M0MGO)

On 18/07/2019 2:33 AM, Patrick Herborn wrote:
Good afternoon all!

This question / feature request pertains to the action of Tab and Space
when in a VHF contest. Space is most useful insofar as it will pre-fill
the locator information if pressed in the Callsign field (if using
history lookup), BUT in doing so it jumps directly to the received
serial box, pre-filling the sent and received reports with 59.

This behaviour is fine on HF contests, but we tend to send real signal
reports, which means one then has to go back to correct the pre-filled
signal reports. Occasionally one might have to correct the locator
for a /P but that's just life.

One way of avoiding this is to use the Tab key - this steps through
the fields and permits entry of RS(T) and serial, but then it doesn't
pre-fill the locator. Kind of damned if you do, damned if you don't.
It would be useful to have an option for Space (or some other key)
to pre-fill the locator only, and jump to the relevant next
field (as discussed below).

An additional improvement might be to change the Tab order of the
fields - again this is related to the use of real signal reports.
The default behaviour is to go from the callsign to the sent
signal report - this is fine in Run mode where you just have
to give the best report you can based on receiving just a callsign,
but in S&P you get your report from the Run station, which
allows a better determination of an accurate signal report, ergo
the sent report tends to get filled in last. It would be helpful
to have an option to change the tab (or space or other key) order to
Callsign->RxRST->RxSn->Loc->SntRST - perhaps tracking Run/S&P state.

These things may of course already be possible - I just haven't found a
way of doing it - in which case I should be grateful for any hints /
tips / instructions.

Best regards,

Pat (M0MGO).


--
Patrick Herborn <pat@...>

Patrick Herborn
 

On Wed, 17 Jul 2019 14:24:54 -0700
andy@... wrote:

Things do appear to be very different across the pond, in the UK and Europe
genuine signal reports are routinely given in V/UHF contests, and at least
in the RSGB contests you WILL be penalised if you log any part of the exchange
incorrectly.

After all the purpose of a contest is to pass information as quickly and
*accurately* as possible, not to make up the contact details for the log..
And indeed we can show UBNs for mismatched RS(T)s...

You may have noticed that Pat's callsign places him as English, so he is
also subject to these rules. and hence he has raised a perfectly valid query.
Very valid for us, yes :)

Perhaps we can now let someone answer Pats question.
Are you using the B4RTTY UDC for VHF or are you using MINOS ? If the
former, have you seen the behaiour that John describes, where even
a Tab completes the Locator ? Perhaps I have configure it wrong
somehow...

As an aside, did I hear that right when I heard a glimmer of GM0AMD/MM
in IO66 square the other night ? :)

Andy GD0AMD
Cheers,

Pat. (M0MGO)

--
Patrick Herborn <pat@...>

Les Elliott
 

Pat
I have just tested B4 and the Locator fills on pressing Tab,
perhaps it is down to how you have formatted your CH file.

Les, G4OGB

-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick Herborn
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2019 3:33 PM
To: N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io
Subject: [N1MM+] Tab / Space behaviour on VHF contests

Good afternoon all!

This question / feature request pertains to the action of Tab and Space
when in a VHF contest. Space is most useful insofar as it will pre-fill
the locator information if pressed in the Callsign field (if using
history lookup), BUT in doing so it jumps directly to the received
serial box, pre-filling the sent and received reports with 59.

This behaviour is fine on HF contests, but we tend to send real signal
reports, which means one then has to go back to correct the pre-filled
signal reports. Occasionally one might have to correct the locator
for a /P but that's just life.

One way of avoiding this is to use the Tab key - this steps through
the fields and permits entry of RS(T) and serial, but then it doesn't
pre-fill the locator. Kind of damned if you do, damned if you don't.
It would be useful to have an option for Space (or some other key)
to pre-fill the locator only, and jump to the relevant next
field (as discussed below).

An additional improvement might be to change the Tab order of the
fields - again this is related to the use of real signal reports.
The default behaviour is to go from the callsign to the sent
signal report - this is fine in Run mode where you just have
to give the best report you can based on receiving just a callsign,
but in S&P you get your report from the Run station, which
allows a better determination of an accurate signal report, ergo
the sent report tends to get filled in last. It would be helpful
to have an option to change the tab (or space or other key) order to
Callsign->RxRST->RxSn->Loc->SntRST - perhaps tracking Run/S&P state.

These things may of course already be possible - I just haven't found a
way of doing it - in which case I should be grateful for any hints /
tips / instructions.

Best regards,

Pat (M0MGO).

--
Patrick Herborn <pat@...>

Patrick Herborn
 

On Thu, 18 Jul 2019 09:54:21 +0100
"Les Elliott via Groups.Io" <g4ogb=tiscali.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:

Pat
Hiya Les!

I have just tested B4 and the Locator fills on pressing Tab,
perhaps it is down to how you have formatted your CH file.
OK, I didn't have access to the actual laptop, but given that
TWO people now have pointed out that Tab works, I figured I
needed to have another go!

To this end I downloaded the Full Install, and the latest (16Jul)
update, installed, configured, installed the B4 UDC, copied across
the CH file, pulled it in, enabled History Lookup and tried it here.
IT WORKED!

This had me scratching my head - *WHY* did it work here, and not
on the laptop ? I didn't do anything "different" during the install,
and both are on the 16Jul release..... I started playing around and
I THINK I have found the cause :)

*AT FIRST* I thought it was to do with the Check - ie if you type
in the full Callsign then it fills the Locator when you Tab from
the Callsign, but NOT if the Callsign was completed from a partial
by the Check window, however a subsequent test showed that even
a Check completed callsign DOES work!

Further tinkering has now narrowed it down and it is repeatable,
and perhaps also "expected".... IF there is ANYTHING left in the
SntRpt field at all, then a Tab WILL NOT auto-fill the Locator,
*BUT SPACE WILL* [so long as the Locator field doesn't already
contain something].

It is interesting to compare Tab and Space behaviour : If there
is something in SntRpt then Tab will not overwrite it with 59
and place you between the 5 and 9. If you Tab on then it will
NOT fill *EMPTY* RcvRpt and Locator fields with 59 and the
locator. Space on the other hand will leave the SntRpt alone,
but it WILL auto-fill the *EMPTY* RcvRpt and Locator fields.
Any field that already has something in it is left alone.

The Tab behaviour is thus heavily dependant on the SnrRpt
field - if it is empty then it fills SntRpt, RcvRpt and
Locator, but if it is not empty then it doesn't fill ANY
of those, even if they are empty to start with, whereas
Space ALWAYS fills non-empty fields.

The quick moral of the story is - always WIPE if you change
your mind about an entry. Beyond that I don't know if it
would be sensible for Tab to fill in EMPTY SntRpt and Locator
fields (as it would if SntRpt was empty) or to leave it
the way it is ?

Many thanks to all those who have responded, especially those
who said it was working for them since that made me start
digging somewhat deeper and figure out why it wasn't working
here :) Hopefully this wasn't an RTFM fail and others can
benefit from my observations.

Les, G4OGB
Cheers,

Pat. (M0MGO)

-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick Herborn
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2019 3:33 PM
To: N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io
Subject: [N1MM+] Tab / Space behaviour on VHF contests

Good afternoon all!

This question / feature request pertains to the action of Tab and Space
when in a VHF contest. Space is most useful insofar as it will pre-fill
the locator information if pressed in the Callsign field (if using
history lookup), BUT in doing so it jumps directly to the received
serial box, pre-filling the sent and received reports with 59.

This behaviour is fine on HF contests, but we tend to send real signal
reports, which means one then has to go back to correct the pre-filled
signal reports. Occasionally one might have to correct the locator
for a /P but that's just life.

One way of avoiding this is to use the Tab key - this steps through
the fields and permits entry of RS(T) and serial, but then it doesn't
pre-fill the locator. Kind of damned if you do, damned if you don't.
It would be useful to have an option for Space (or some other key)
to pre-fill the locator only, and jump to the relevant next
field (as discussed below).

An additional improvement might be to change the Tab order of the
fields - again this is related to the use of real signal reports.
The default behaviour is to go from the callsign to the sent
signal report - this is fine in Run mode where you just have
to give the best report you can based on receiving just a callsign,
but in S&P you get your report from the Run station, which
allows a better determination of an accurate signal report, ergo
the sent report tends to get filled in last. It would be helpful
to have an option to change the tab (or space or other key) order to
Callsign->RxRST->RxSn->Loc->SntRST - perhaps tracking Run/S&P state.

These things may of course already be possible - I just haven't found a
way of doing it - in which case I should be grateful for any hints /
tips / instructions.

Best regards,

Pat (M0MGO).

--
Patrick Herborn <pat@...>





--
Patrick Herborn <pat@...>

Jim W7RY
 

Always work dupes! ALWAYS! There is a reason your not in the other stations log!

Always work dupes!


Thanks
73
Jim W7RY
On 7/18/2019 8:39 AM, Patrick Herborn wrote:

On Thu, 18 Jul 2019 09:54:21 +0100
"Les Elliott via Groups.Io" <g4ogb@...> wrote:

Pat
Hiya Les!

I have just tested B4 and the Locator fills on pressing Tab,
perhaps it is down to how you have formatted your CH file.
OK, I didn't have access to the actual laptop, but given that
TWO people now have pointed out that Tab works, I figured I
needed to have another go!

To this end I downloaded the Full Install, and the latest (16Jul)
update, installed, configured, installed the B4 UDC, copied across
the CH file, pulled it in, enabled History Lookup and tried it here. 
IT WORKED!

This had me scratching my head - *WHY* did it work here, and not
on the laptop ? I didn't do anything "different" during the install,
and both are on the 16Jul release..... I started playing around and 
I THINK I have found the cause :)

*AT FIRST* I thought it was to do with the Check - ie if you type
in the full Callsign then it fills the Locator when you Tab from
the Callsign, but NOT if the Callsign was completed from a partial
by the Check window, however a subsequent test showed that even
a Check completed callsign DOES work!

Further tinkering has now narrowed it down and it is repeatable,
and perhaps also "expected".... IF there is ANYTHING left in the
SntRpt field at all, then a Tab WILL NOT auto-fill the Locator,
*BUT SPACE WILL* [so long as the Locator field doesn't already
contain something].

It is interesting to compare Tab and Space behaviour : If there
is something in SntRpt then Tab will not overwrite it with 59
and place you between the 5 and 9. If you Tab on then it will
NOT fill *EMPTY* RcvRpt and Locator fields with 59 and the
locator. Space on the other hand will leave the SntRpt alone,
but it WILL auto-fill the *EMPTY* RcvRpt and Locator fields.
Any field that already has something in it is left alone.

The Tab behaviour is thus heavily dependant on the SnrRpt
field - if it is empty then it fills SntRpt, RcvRpt and
Locator, but if it is not empty then it doesn't fill ANY
of those, even if they are empty to start with, whereas
Space ALWAYS fills non-empty fields.

The quick moral of the story is - always WIPE if you change
your mind about an entry. Beyond that I don't know if it
would be sensible for Tab to fill in EMPTY SntRpt and Locator
fields (as it would if SntRpt was empty) or to leave it
the way it is ?

Many thanks to all those who have responded, especially those
who said it was working for them since that made me start
digging somewhat deeper and figure out why it wasn't working
here :) Hopefully this wasn't an RTFM fail and others can
benefit from my observations.
 
Les, G4OGB
Cheers,

Pat. (M0MGO)

-----Original Message----- 
From: Patrick Herborn
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2019 3:33 PM
To: N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io
Subject: [N1MM+] Tab / Space behaviour on VHF contests

Good afternoon all!

This question / feature request pertains to the action of Tab and Space
when in a VHF contest. Space is most useful insofar as it will pre-fill
the locator information if pressed in the Callsign field (if using
history lookup), BUT in doing so it jumps directly to the received
serial box, pre-filling the sent and received reports with 59.

This behaviour is fine on HF contests, but we tend to send real signal
reports, which means one then has to go back to correct the pre-filled
signal reports. Occasionally one might have to correct the locator
for a /P but that's just life.

One way of avoiding this is to use the Tab key - this steps through
the fields and permits entry of RS(T) and serial, but then it doesn't
pre-fill the locator. Kind of damned if you do, damned if you don't.
It would be useful to have an option for Space (or some other key)
to pre-fill the locator only, and jump to the relevant next
field (as discussed below).

An additional improvement might be to change the Tab order of the
fields - again this is related to the use of real signal reports.
The default behaviour is to go from the callsign to the sent
signal report - this is fine in Run mode where you just have
to give the best report you can based on receiving just a callsign,
but in S&P you get your report from the Run station, which
allows a better determination of an accurate signal report, ergo
the sent report tends to get filled in last. It would be helpful
to have an option to change the tab (or space or other key) order to
Callsign->RxRST->RxSn->Loc->SntRST - perhaps tracking Run/S&P state.

These things may of course already be possible - I just haven't found a
way of doing it - in which case I should be grateful for any hints /
tips / instructions.

Best regards,

Pat (M0MGO).

-- 
Patrick Herborn <pat@...>

 





Les Elliott
 

A bit off topic, Jim, but I totally agree
 
73
Les, G4OGB
 

From: Jim W7RY
Sent: Friday, July 19, 2019 1:10 AM
Subject: Re: [N1MM+] Tab / Space behaviour on VHF contests
 
Always work dupes! ALWAYS! There is a reason you’re not in the other stations log!

Always work dupes!


Thanks
73
Jim W7RY
On 7/18/2019 8:39 AM, Patrick Herborn wrote:
On Thu, 18 Jul 2019 09:54:21 +0100
"Les Elliott via Groups.Io" mailto:g4ogb@... wrote:

Pat
Hiya Les!

I have just tested B4 and the Locator fills on pressing Tab,
perhaps it is down to how you have formatted your CH file.
OK, I didn't have access to the actual laptop, but given that
TWO people now have pointed out that Tab works, I figured I
needed to have another go!

To this end I downloaded the Full Install, and the latest (16Jul)
update, installed, configured, installed the B4 UDC, copied across
the CH file, pulled it in, enabled History Lookup and tried it here. 
IT WORKED!

This had me scratching my head - *WHY* did it work here, and not
on the laptop ? I didn't do anything "different" during the install,
and both are on the 16Jul release..... I started playing around and 
I THINK I have found the cause :)

*AT FIRST* I thought it was to do with the Check - ie if you type
in the full Callsign then it fills the Locator when you Tab from
the Callsign, but NOT if the Callsign was completed from a partial
by the Check window, however a subsequent test showed that even
a Check completed callsign DOES work!

Further tinkering has now narrowed it down and it is repeatable,
and perhaps also "expected".... IF there is ANYTHING left in the
SntRpt field at all, then a Tab WILL NOT auto-fill the Locator,
*BUT SPACE WILL* [so long as the Locator field doesn't already
contain something].

It is interesting to compare Tab and Space behaviour : If there
is something in SntRpt then Tab will not overwrite it with 59
and place you between the 5 and 9. If you Tab on then it will
NOT fill *EMPTY* RcvRpt and Locator fields with 59 and the
locator. Space on the other hand will leave the SntRpt alone,
but it WILL auto-fill the *EMPTY* RcvRpt and Locator fields.
Any field that already has something in it is left alone.

The Tab behaviour is thus heavily dependant on the SnrRpt
field - if it is empty then it fills SntRpt, RcvRpt and
Locator, but if it is not empty then it doesn't fill ANY
of those, even if they are empty to start with, whereas
Space ALWAYS fills non-empty fields.

The quick moral of the story is - always WIPE if you change
your mind about an entry. Beyond that I don't know if it
would be sensible for Tab to fill in EMPTY SntRpt and Locator
fields (as it would if SntRpt was empty) or to leave it
the way it is ?

Many thanks to all those who have responded, especially those
who said it was working for them since that made me start
digging somewhat deeper and figure out why it wasn't working
here :) Hopefully this wasn't an RTFM fail and others can
benefit from my observations.
 
Les, G4OGB
Cheers,

Pat. (M0MGO)

-----Original Message----- 
From: Patrick Herborn
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2019 3:33 PM
To: N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io
Subject: [N1MM+] Tab / Space behaviour on VHF contests

Good afternoon all!

This question / feature request pertains to the action of Tab and Space
when in a VHF contest. Space is most useful insofar as it will pre-fill
the locator information if pressed in the Callsign field (if using
history lookup), BUT in doing so it jumps directly to the received
serial box, pre-filling the sent and received reports with 59.

This behaviour is fine on HF contests, but we tend to send real signal
reports, which means one then has to go back to correct the pre-filled
signal reports. Occasionally one might have to correct the locator
for a /P but that's just life.

One way of avoiding this is to use the Tab key - this steps through
the fields and permits entry of RS(T) and serial, but then it doesn't
pre-fill the locator. Kind of damned if you do, damned if you don't.
It would be useful to have an option for Space (or some other key)
to pre-fill the locator only, and jump to the relevant next
field (as discussed below).

An additional improvement might be to change the Tab order of the
fields - again this is related to the use of real signal reports.
The default behaviour is to go from the callsign to the sent
signal report - this is fine in Run mode where you just have
to give the best report you can based on receiving just a callsign,
but in S&P you get your report from the Run station, which
allows a better determination of an accurate signal report, ergo
the sent report tends to get filled in last. It would be helpful
to have an option to change the tab (or space or other key) order to
Callsign->RxRST->RxSn->Loc->SntRST - perhaps tracking Run/S&P state.

These things may of course already be possible - I just haven't found a
way of doing it - in which case I should be grateful for any hints /
tips / instructions.

Best regards,

Pat (M0MGO).

-- 
Patrick Herborn mailto:pat@...

 




VE9AA - Mike
 

I stand corrected and apologize if my previous reply came off as harsh (it was meant to be informative)
I had  no idea that in EU and the UK that signal reports in VHF contests were checked and verified by sponsors and that 
you would lose the QSO if you got the signal report wrong.  No idea at all. (seems silly, but my opinion counts naught in your contests, hi)

All I do is HF & VHF contests in North America and not having ever operated a VHF contest from EU I should not have been so quick
to bark out my opinion.

Sorry about that everyone !  Should I ever operate a VHF contest in EU/UK, I'll make a mental note to copy those 339 and 579 reports accurately.

Respectfully, 

Mike VE9AA

Eric Gruff
 

Jim,

There are exceptions to the "always work dupes" rule. For example, if you log a dupe in the IARU HF Championship (last weekend), you are penalized three QSOs. Most contests don't do this, but given that a few do, it behooves serious contesters to read the rules first. I'm a semi-serious contester, but routinely fail to read the rules. I have learned a few painful (sunburn painful, not 3rd-degree burn painful) lessons by being ignorant.

73 and CU all on the bands,

Eric NC6K

Drew Vonada-Smith K3PA
 

Eric,

That rule applies to duplicate contacts CLAIMED FOR CREDIT.  Any modern logging program does not claim credit.  You still want to work dupes.

73,

Drew K3PA