Topics

ARRL RTTY RU: FT8 means no Single Op UNassisted

Victor Paul
 

With many planning on using both RTTY and FT8 in the ARRL RTTY RU this weekend, I thought I would highlight some rules quirks of which I was unaware until I actually read the rules carefully.  A couple of take aways that folks should be aware of:

1) If you use WSJT-X or similar FT8 software that decodes more than one signal at a time you CANNOT enter as Single Op UnAssisted.  Quoting from the rules:
"Since ARRL contest rules regarding spotting assistance prohibit the use of “automated, multi-channel decoders” by Single-Operator entrants, stations using software that decodes more than one FT8 signal at a time will have to enter as Single-Operator Unlimited or as Multioperator, just as PSK participants have had to do in the past when using fldigi or DigiPan software."

2) If you enter as Single Op Assisted, it appears that you will be ineligible for a certificate, no matter how high your score is.  Reading section 8 of the rules I see that there will be certificates for the highest scoring Single Op High and Low power  and MultiOp high and low power in each ARRL/RAC section, but I see nothing about any certs or plaques for Single Op Unlimited (i.e. Assisted).  That may not be the intent, but its how I read it.  If that really is the case, those entering in the hopes of some wall paper may want to enter in the MultiOp category (with the attendant band change limits) rather than Single Op Unlimited/Assisted.

Yes, I realize this topic isn't specifically germane to the N1MM+ software, but thought it worth mentioning here.  Read the rules at:
http://www.arrl.org/rtty-roundup

73,
Victor WB0TEV

Drew Vonada-Smith K3PA
 

Unlimited categories are always eligble for the same awards.  Just imprecise language in the rules.  

73,
Drew K3PA

John Kludt
 

Victor,

Agreed.  But I wonder and maybe we need to take this off line, I have the impression that many of the hardcore RTTY contest crowd run two decoders at once,  So while each decoder is only decoding one signal at a time, as the operator, they are reviewing more than one decoded signal at a time.  So they must have the same issue.

John

On Fri, Jan 4, 2019 at 1:32 AM Victor Paul <vmpaul@...> wrote:
With many planning on using both RTTY and FT8 in the ARRL RTTY RU this weekend, I thought I would highlight some rules quirks of which I was unaware until I actually read the rules carefully.  A couple of take aways that folks should be aware of:

1) If you use WSJT-X or similar FT8 software that decodes more than one signal at a time you CANNOT enter as Single Op UnAssisted.  Quoting from the rules:
"Since ARRL contest rules regarding spotting assistance prohibit the use of “automated, multi-channel decoders” by Single-Operator entrants, stations using software that decodes more than one FT8 signal at a time will have to enter as Single-Operator Unlimited or as Multioperator, just as PSK participants have had to do in the past when using fldigi or DigiPan software."

2) If you enter as Single Op Assisted, it appears that you will be ineligible for a certificate, no matter how high your score is.  Reading section 8 of the rules I see that there will be certificates for the highest scoring Single Op High and Low power  and MultiOp high and low power in each ARRL/RAC section, but I see nothing about any certs or plaques for Single Op Unlimited (i.e. Assisted).  That may not be the intent, but its how I read it.  If that really is the case, those entering in the hopes of some wall paper may want to enter in the MultiOp category (with the attendant band change limits) rather than Single Op Unlimited/Assisted.

Yes, I realize this topic isn't specifically germane to the N1MM+ software, but thought it worth mentioning here.  Read the rules at:
http://www.arrl.org/rtty-roundup

73,
Victor WB0TEV

Jamie WW3S
 

diffrence with multiple decoders is we are decoding the same signal...with FT8, you are decoding multiple signals within the passband.....there was a similiar RTTY one out there, decoded maybe 3khz, with multiple signals within that passband, but I dont remember the name of it....but, if you use it, you are correct, that puts you in unlimited category....


From: "John Kludt" <johnnykludt@...>
To: N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io
Sent: Friday, January 4, 2019 8:18:37 AM
Subject: Re: [N1MMLoggerPlus] ARRL RTTY RU: FT8 means no Single Op UNassisted

Victor,

Agreed.  But I wonder and maybe we need to take this off line, I have the impression that many of the hardcore RTTY contest crowd run two decoders at once,  So while each decoder is only decoding one signal at a time, as the operator, they are reviewing more than one decoded signal at a time.  So they must have the same issue.

John

On Fri, Jan 4, 2019 at 1:32 AM Victor Paul <vmpaul@...> wrote:
With many planning on using both RTTY and FT8 in the ARRL RTTY RU this weekend, I thought I would highlight some rules quirks of which I was unaware until I actually read the rules carefully.  A couple of take aways that folks should be aware of:

1) If you use WSJT-X or similar FT8 software that decodes more than one signal at a time you CANNOT enter as Single Op UnAssisted.  Quoting from the rules:
"Since ARRL contest rules regarding spotting assistance prohibit the use of “automated, multi-channel decoders” by Single-Operator entrants, stations using software that decodes more than one FT8 signal at a time will have to enter as Single-Operator Unlimited or as Multioperator, just as PSK participants have had to do in the past when using fldigi or DigiPan software."

2) If you enter as Single Op Assisted, it appears that you will be ineligible for a certificate, no matter how high your score is.  Reading section 8 of the rules I see that there will be certificates for the highest scoring Single Op High and Low power  and MultiOp high and low power in each ARRL/RAC section, but I see nothing about any certs or plaques for Single Op Unlimited (i.e. Assisted).  That may not be the intent, but its how I read it.  If that really is the case, those entering in the hopes of some wall paper may want to enter in the MultiOp category (with the attendant band change limits) rather than Single Op Unlimited/Assisted.

Yes, I realize this topic isn't specifically germane to the N1MM+ software, but thought it worth mentioning here.  Read the rules at:
http://www.arrl.org/rtty-roundup

73,
Victor WB0TEV


Jamie WW3S
 

#2 is incorrect, you are eligible for certificates or plaques as single op assisted....I won a plaque as DX winner of SOLP assisted from VP9 a few years back.....


From: "John Kludt" <johnnykludt@...>
To: N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io
Sent: Friday, January 4, 2019 8:18:37 AM
Subject: Re: [N1MMLoggerPlus] ARRL RTTY RU: FT8 means no Single Op UNassisted

Victor,

Agreed.  But I wonder and maybe we need to take this off line, I have the impression that many of the hardcore RTTY contest crowd run two decoders at once,  So while each decoder is only decoding one signal at a time, as the operator, they are reviewing more than one decoded signal at a time.  So they must have the same issue.

John

On Fri, Jan 4, 2019 at 1:32 AM Victor Paul <vmpaul@...> wrote:
With many planning on using both RTTY and FT8 in the ARRL RTTY RU this weekend, I thought I would highlight some rules quirks of which I was unaware until I actually read the rules carefully.  A couple of take aways that folks should be aware of:

1) If you use WSJT-X or similar FT8 software that decodes more than one signal at a time you CANNOT enter as Single Op UnAssisted.  Quoting from the rules:
"Since ARRL contest rules regarding spotting assistance prohibit the use of “automated, multi-channel decoders” by Single-Operator entrants, stations using software that decodes more than one FT8 signal at a time will have to enter as Single-Operator Unlimited or as Multioperator, just as PSK participants have had to do in the past when using fldigi or DigiPan software."

2) If you enter as Single Op Assisted, it appears that you will be ineligible for a certificate, no matter how high your score is.  Reading section 8 of the rules I see that there will be certificates for the highest scoring Single Op High and Low power  and MultiOp high and low power in each ARRL/RAC section, but I see nothing about any certs or plaques for Single Op Unlimited (i.e. Assisted).  That may not be the intent, but its how I read it.  If that really is the case, those entering in the hopes of some wall paper may want to enter in the MultiOp category (with the attendant band change limits) rather than Single Op Unlimited/Assisted.

Yes, I realize this topic isn't specifically germane to the N1MM+ software, but thought it worth mentioning here.  Read the rules at:
http://www.arrl.org/rtty-roundup

73,
Victor WB0TEV


Rick Ellison
 

You can copy multiple stations in both Fldigi and MMVARI which is used as the PSK engine in the logger. You can ecode up to 20 different frequency slots at a time in each program.

 

73 Rick N2AMG

 

From: N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io [mailto:N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io] On Behalf Of Jamie WW3S
Sent: Friday, January 4, 2019 8:44 AM
To: N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io
Subject: Re: [N1MMLoggerPlus] ARRL RTTY RU: FT8 means no Single Op UNassisted

 

diffrence with multiple decoders is we are decoding the same signal...with FT8, you are decoding multiple signals within the passband.....there was a similiar RTTY one out there, decoded maybe 3khz, with multiple signals within that passband, but I dont remember the name of it....but, if you use it, you are correct, that puts you in unlimited category....

 


From: "John Kludt" <johnnykludt@...>
To: N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io
Sent: Friday, January 4, 2019 8:18:37 AM
Subject: Re: [N1MMLoggerPlus] ARRL RTTY RU: FT8 means no Single Op UNassisted

 

Victor,

 

Agreed.  But I wonder and maybe we need to take this off line, I have the impression that many of the hardcore RTTY contest crowd run two decoders at once,  So while each decoder is only decoding one signal at a time, as the operator, they are reviewing more than one decoded signal at a time.  So they must have the same issue.

 

John

 

On Fri, Jan 4, 2019 at 1:32 AM Victor Paul <vmpaul@...> wrote:

With many planning on using both RTTY and FT8 in the ARRL RTTY RU this weekend, I thought I would highlight some rules quirks of which I was unaware until I actually read the rules carefully.  A couple of take aways that folks should be aware of:

 

1) If you use WSJT-X or similar FT8 software that decodes more than one signal at a time you CANNOT enter as Single Op UnAssisted.  Quoting from the rules:
"Since ARRL contest rules regarding spotting assistance prohibit the use of “automated, multi-channel decoders” by Single-Operator entrants, stations using software that decodes more than one FT8 signal at a time will have to enter as Single-Operator Unlimited or as Multioperator, just as PSK participants have had to do in the past when using fldigi or DigiPan software."

 

2) If you enter as Single Op Assisted, it appears that you will be ineligible for a certificate, no matter how high your score is.  Reading section 8 of the rules I see that there will be certificates for the highest scoring Single Op High and Low power  and MultiOp high and low power in each ARRL/RAC section, but I see nothing about any certs or plaques for Single Op Unlimited (i.e. Assisted).  That may not be the intent, but its how I read it.  If that really is the case, those entering in the hopes of some wall paper may want to enter in the MultiOp category (with the attendant band change limits) rather than Single Op Unlimited/Assisted.

 

Yes, I realize this topic isn't specifically germane to the N1MM+ software, but thought it worth mentioning here.  Read the rules at:
http://www.arrl.org/rtty-roundup

 

73,
Victor WB0TEV

 

Victor Paul
 

Jamie,

Good to know that my concern #2 was just in-exact wording in the rules.    FT8 ops in the RTTY RU still need to enter as either Unlimited category or MultiOp per #1.

Thanks and GL to all this weekend.

Victor WB0TEV

Joe Subich, W4TV
 

there was a similiar RTTY one out there, decoded maybe 3khz, with multiple signals within that passband, but I dont remember the name of it....
Fldigi, HamRadio Deluxe (DM-780), GRTTY, MixW and MMVARI all provide
multiple decodes within the 3 KHz audio bandwidth. Fldigi and MMVARI
can be used as decoders in N1MM Logger+.

Seems like the RTTY Roundup rules need to be adjusted based on the
realities of the software available to the average operator and
recognize changes in the state of the art. There is essentially no
difference between Fldigi/MMVARI and multiple decoder windows with
MMTTY/2-Tone - particularly since the user can adjust the "Mark"
frequency on each MMTTY/2-Tone window to a different "slot" within
a 3 KHz bandwidth (i.e., MMTTY/2-Tone does not necessarily need to
be decoding the same signal in each "window").

73,

... Joe, W4TV


On 2019-01-04 8:44 AM, Jamie WW3S wrote:
diffrence with multiple decoders is we are decoding the same signal...with FT8, you are decoding multiple signals within the passband.....there was a similiar RTTY one out there, decoded maybe 3khz, with multiple signals within that passband, but I dont remember the name of it....but, if you use it, you are correct, that puts you in unlimited category....

Gilbert Baron W0MN
 

Yes, you have that right.

Outlook Laptop Gil W0MN
Hierro Candente Batir de Repente
44.08226 N 92.51265 W EN34rb

-----Original Message-----
From: N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io <N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io> On Behalf Of Joe Subich, W4TV
Sent: Friday, January 4, 2019 13:38
To: N1MMLoggerPlus@groups.io
Subject: Re: [N1MMLoggerPlus] ARRL RTTY RU: FT8 means no Single Op UNassisted


there was a similiar RTTY one out there, decoded maybe 3khz, with
multiple signals within that passband, but I dont remember the name of
it....
Fldigi, HamRadio Deluxe (DM-780), GRTTY, MixW and MMVARI all provide multiple decodes within the 3 KHz audio bandwidth. Fldigi and MMVARI can be used as decoders in N1MM Logger+.

Seems like the RTTY Roundup rules need to be adjusted based on the realities of the software available to the average operator and recognize changes in the state of the art. There is essentially no difference between Fldigi/MMVARI and multiple decoder windows with MMTTY/2-Tone - particularly since the user can adjust the "Mark"
frequency on each MMTTY/2-Tone window to a different "slot" within a 3 KHz bandwidth (i.e., MMTTY/2-Tone does not necessarily need to be decoding the same signal in each "window").

73,

... Joe, W4TV


On 2019-01-04 8:44 AM, Jamie WW3S wrote:
diffrence with multiple decoders is we are decoding the same signal...with FT8, you are decoding multiple signals within the passband.....there was a similiar RTTY one out there, decoded maybe 3khz, with multiple signals within that passband, but I dont remember the name of it....but, if you use it, you are correct, that puts you in unlimited category....