Topics

Compound Calls and Dupes

David Needham
 

Three friends and I just finished competing in the CQWW Phone Contest from Jamaica using the compound call K4AJA/VP9 as a Multi-Two Low Power entry using N1MM+.  We simply can't say enough positive things about how the N1MM+ software performed during the contest and on our individual logs for contacts before and after. Thanks to the team for this fantastic product!

Despite our best efforts, some stations apparently logged, then spotted us as VP9/K4AJA. While we are pretty sure the contest excepts those as valid contacts, we would then get a slew of duplicate contacts. It is faster to just work them again and move on, but it does take a small amount of time away from other contacts. Could/should the software be modified to recognize the call with the other county as a prefix or suffix as the same contact and then make both of them gray on the band map once either is worked?

Thanks,
Dave, K4AJA

Steve London
 

I hope you were -NOT- using K4AJA/VP9 from Jamaica !

VP9 is the prefix for Bermuda.

73,
Steve, N2IC

Jan
 

I (and many others here in EU) always use the prefix of the country where I am before my own call. So 9A/PA4JJ or PJ2/PA4JJ
In my opninion this is how it should be done because you are operating from a different country prefix than your own.

73
Jan
PA32EUDXF
Op 1-11-2018 om 16:51 schreef David Needham:
Three friends and I just finished competing in the CQWW Phone Contest from Jamaica using the compound call K4AJA/VP9 as a Multi-Two Low Power entry using N1MM+.  We simply can't say enough positive things about how the N1MM+ software performed during the contest and on our individual logs for contacts before and after. Thanks to the team for this fantastic product!

Despite our best efforts, some stations apparently logged, then spotted us as VP9/K4AJA. While we are pretty sure the contest excepts those as valid contacts, we would then get a slew of duplicate contacts. It is faster to just work them again and move on, but it does take a small amount of time away from other contacts. Could/should the software be modified to recognize the call with the other county as a prefix or suffix as the same contact and then make both of them gray on the band map once either is worked?

Thanks,
Dave, K4AJA

-- 
____________________________________________________
my dxspider clusters running on a raspberry pi:  
pa4jj-2 83.162.186.242 port 7300
pa4jj-3 83.162.186.242 port 7388

ve3ki
 

Where it appears depends on the requirements of the licensing authorities. Anyone operating under the authority of CEPT T/R 61-01 is required to place the prefix before the home call. I believe anyone other than Canadians operating in the USA under a reciprocal operating authority is required to place the prefix before their home call as well (FCC rules 97.119(g)). On the other hand, In the case of the Canada-US reciprocal operating treaty, the regulations in both countries say the prefix must come after the home call sign. If you are operating under the authority of an individual authorization rather than a blanket agreement like CEPT T/R 61-01, then you use whatever call sign the authorities who gave you the authorization told you to use.

73,
Rich VE3KI


On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 12:26 PM, Jan wrote:
I (and many others here in EU) always use the prefix of the country where I am before my own call. So 9A/PA4JJ or PJ2/PA4JJ
In my opninion this is how it should be done because you are operating from a different country prefix than your own.

73
Jan
PA32EUDXF
Op 1-11-2018 om 16:51 schreef David Needham:
Three friends and I just finished competing in the CQWW Phone Contest from Jamaica using the compound call K4AJA/VP9 as a Multi-Two Low Power entry using N1MM+.  We simply can't say enough positive things about how the N1MM+ software performed during the contest and on our individual logs for contacts before and after. Thanks to the team for this fantastic product!

Despite our best efforts, some stations apparently logged, then spotted us as VP9/K4AJA. While we are pretty sure the contest excepts those as valid contacts, we would then get a slew of duplicate contacts. It is faster to just work them again and move on, but it does take a small amount of time away from other contacts. Could/should the software be modified to recognize the call with the other county as a prefix or suffix as the same contact and then make both of them gray on the band map once either is worked?

Thanks,
Dave, K4AJA

-- 
____________________________________________________
my dxspider clusters running on a raspberry pi:
pa4jj-2 83.162.186.242 port 7300
pa4jj-3 83.162.186.242 port 7388

David Needham
 

Yes, I meant Bermuda...lol, Jamaica was 2017 and 2016 and they issue local calls.

The Bermuda licensing authority that issued our license and the experienced locals were adamant that we should sign as K4AJA/VP9, so that wasn't an option.

Pretty sure the CQWW contest committee is okay if people logged us as VP9/K4AJA, so back to the question: Is there any way for the software to recognize both as the same station so everyone doesn't try to work us twice when someone spots us as VP9/K4AJA?

Thanks,
Dave K4AJA

Rich Seifert
 



On Nov 1, 2018, at 9:26 AM, Jan <pa4jj@...> wrote:

I (and many others here in EU) always use the prefix of the country where I am before my own call. So 9A/PA4JJ or PJ2/PA4JJ
In my opninion this is how it should be done because you are operating from a different country prefix than your own.

73
Jan
PA32EUDXF

It’s not only your (correct) opinion, it’s the LAW. Stations operating outside their home DXCC entity MUST use the national prefix of the country they are in, followed by their home callsign (when this is their call).

From Jamaica, you should have signed 6Y/K4AJA.

(FYI: The only exceptions are USA stations operating in Hawaii or Alaska (which are separate DXCC entities); they sign K1ABC/KL7 or K1ABC/KH6. Also, USA stations operating in Canada sign K1ABC/VE3 or similar. It’s because we have a separate radio treaty with Canada.)

Rich KE1B (and often VP5/KE1B, 9Y/KE1B, EA8/KE1B, and many more)

ve3ki
 

That's the law in the USA. Laws in other countries may be different. You must obey the laws in the country your transmitter is located in. If the licensing authorities in Bermuda told them to sign K4AJA/VP9, then that's how they were legally required to identify.

73,
Rich VE3KI


On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 12:15 PM, Rich Seifert wrote:


On Nov 1, 2018, at 9:26 AM, Jan <pa4jj@...> wrote:
I (and many others here in EU) always use the prefix of the country where I am before my own call. So 9A/PA4JJ or PJ2/PA4JJ
In my opninion this is how it should be done because you are operating from a different country prefix than your own.

73
Jan
PA32EUDXF
It’s not only your (correct) opinion, it’s the LAW. Stations operating outside their home DXCC entity MUST use the national prefix of the country they are in, followed by their home callsign (when this is their call).
 
From Jamaica, you should have signed 6Y/K4AJA.
 
(FYI: The only exceptions are USA stations operating in Hawaii or Alaska (which are separate DXCC entities); they sign K1ABC/KL7 or K1ABC/KH6. Also, USA stations operating in Canada sign K1ABC/VE3 or similar. It’s because we have a separate radio treaty with Canada.)
 
Rich KE1B (and often VP5/KE1B, 9Y/KE1B, EA8/KE1B, and many more)

Steve Bookout, NR4M
 

Whose ‘law’?
(Not being a ‘smart ass, here. )
US law law, Bermuda law or CEPT law?
He said the authorities in Bermuda were adamant he send XXXXX/VP9. I would think they would know how they want it  

73 de Steve, NR4M 


On Nov 2, 2018, at 12:15 PM, Rich Seifert <ke1b@...> wrote:



On Nov 1, 2018, at 9:26 AM, Jan <pa4jj@...> wrote:

I (and many others here in EU) always use the prefix of the country where I am before my own call. So 9A/PA4JJ or PJ2/PA4JJ
In my opninion this is how it should be done because you are operating from a different country prefix than your own.

73
Jan
PA32EUDXF

It’s not only your (correct) opinion, it’s the LAW. Stations operating outside their home DXCC entity MUST use the national prefix of the country they are in, followed by their home callsign (when this is their call).

From Jamaica, you should have signed 6Y/K4AJA.

(FYI: The only exceptions are USA stations operating in Hawaii or Alaska (which are separate DXCC entities); they sign K1ABC/KL7 or K1ABC/KH6. Also, USA stations operating in Canada sign K1ABC/VE3 or similar. It’s because we have a separate radio treaty with Canada.)

Rich KE1B (and often VP5/KE1B, 9Y/KE1B, EA8/KE1B, and many more)

Dave Sumner
 

Well...no. The law is whatever the local administration says it is. Recommendation T/R 61-01 does specify that the local prefix comes first, and I agree with Jan that this is the best arrangement. However, if you have a license that says, for example, that your callsign is K4AJA/VP9 then that's what you must sign.

The FCC doesn't care whether its licensees append portable designators indicating their DXCC location, and also doesn't care whether it goes in the front or the back if either the contest rules or personal preference dictates one or the other. FCC Rules, 97.119(c):

(c) One or more indicators may be included with the call sign. Each indicator must be separated from the call sign by the slant mark (/) or by any suitable word that denotes the slant mark. If an indicator is self-assigned, it must be included before, after, or both before and after, the call sign. No self-assigned indicator may conflict with any other indicator specified by the FCC Rules or with any prefix assigned to another country.

73,
Dave K1ZZ


On Friday, November 2, 2018, 12:15:58 PM EDT, Rich Seifert <ke1b@...> wrote:




On Nov 1, 2018, at 9:26 AM, Jan <pa4jj@...> wrote:

I (and many others here in EU) always use the prefix of the country where I am before my own call. So 9A/PA4JJ or PJ2/PA4JJ
In my opninion this is how it should be done because you are operating from a different country prefix than your own.

73
Jan
PA32EUDXF

It’s not only your (correct) opinion, it’s the LAW. Stations operating outside their home DXCC entity MUST use the national prefix of the country they are in, followed by their home callsign (when this is their call).

From Jamaica, you should have signed 6Y/K4AJA.

(FYI: The only exceptions are USA stations operating in Hawaii or Alaska (which are separate DXCC entities); they sign K1ABC/KL7 or K1ABC/KH6. Also, USA stations operating in Canada sign K1ABC/VE3 or similar. It’s because we have a separate radio treaty with Canada.)

Rich KE1B (and often VP5/KE1B, 9Y/KE1B, EA8/KE1B, and many more)

Jamie WW3S
 

As someone who has operated from a Bermuda several times, the written authorization from the telecommunications minister clearly said WW3S/VP9......


On Nov 2, 2018, at 12:15 PM, Rich Seifert <ke1b@...> wrote:



On Nov 1, 2018, at 9:26 AM, Jan <pa4jj@...> wrote:

I (and many others here in EU) always use the prefix of the country where I am before my own call. So 9A/PA4JJ or PJ2/PA4JJ
In my opninion this is how it should be done because you are operating from a different country prefix than your own.

73
Jan
PA32EUDXF

It’s not only your (correct) opinion, it’s the LAW. Stations operating outside their home DXCC entity MUST use the national prefix of the country they are in, followed by their home callsign (when this is their call).

From Jamaica, you should have signed 6Y/K4AJA.

(FYI: The only exceptions are USA stations operating in Hawaii or Alaska (which are separate DXCC entities); they sign K1ABC/KL7 or K1ABC/KH6. Also, USA stations operating in Canada sign K1ABC/VE3 or similar. It’s because we have a separate radio treaty with Canada.)

Rich KE1B (and often VP5/KE1B, 9Y/KE1B, EA8/KE1B, and many more)

Rich Seifert
 



On Nov 2, 2018, at 9:40 AM, David Sumner <sumner@...> wrote:


[snip]

(c) One or more indicators may be included with the call sign. Each indicator must be separated from the call sign by the slant mark (/) or by any suitable word that denotes the slant mark. If an indicator is self-assigned, it must be included before, after, or both before and after, the call sign. No self-assigned indicator may conflict with any other indicator specified by the FCC Rules or with any prefix assigned to another country.


While I agree with you, what about all those repeaters that sign WR6ABC/R? That would seem to indicate portable operation from Russia.

Rich KE1B

Dave Sumner
 

Beats me, Rich. Repeaters are not relevant to N1MM+ but of course VHF contest rovers are.

I suppose this falls into the very large "the FCC doesn't care" bin. As a practical matter there's not much chance of confusion.

Dave K1ZZ


On Friday, November 2, 2018, 5:04:16 PM EDT, Rich Seifert <ke1b@...> wrote:




On Nov 2, 2018, at 9:40 AM, David Sumner <sumner@...> wrote:


[snip]

(c) One or more indicators may be included with the call sign. Each indicator must be separated from the call sign by the slant mark (/) or by any suitable word that denotes the slant mark. If an indicator is self-assigned, it must be included before, after, or both before and after, the call sign. No self-assigned indicator may conflict with any other indicator specified by the FCC Rules or with any prefix assigned to another country.


While I agree with you, what about all those repeaters that sign WR6ABC/R? That would seem to indicate portable operation from Russia.

Rich KE1B

Skip
 

KE1B/M [all the M's belong to the UK], KE1B/AM [AM belongs to Spain], and KE1B/PM [PM belongs to Indonesia] would seem to be non compliant.  Apparently the FCC's "don't care bin" is bigger that we think. [:-)  KE1B/P is apparently compliant as the P's are split between countries and always have a letter or digit following.  KE1B/MM is open for discussion ... Mxxxxx is the UK but you're not supposed to be /MM unless you're in international waters and not subject to the FCC?

73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 11/2/2018 2:33 PM, David Sumner wrote:
Beats me, Rich. Repeaters are not relevant to N1MM+ but of course VHF contest rovers are.

I suppose this falls into the very large "the FCC doesn't care" bin. As a practical matter there's not much chance of confusion.

Dave K1ZZ




Andreas Rehberg
 

A scotsman could sign as MM0MM/MM
Or M/MM0MM/M when driving in England..

73, Andy, just DF4WC
.
Am 02.11.18, 22:45, Skip <k6dgw@...> schrieb:

KE1B/M [all the M's belong to the UK], KE1B/AM [AM belongs to Spain], and KE1B/PM [PM belongs to Indonesia] would seem to be non compliant.  Apparently the FCC's "don't care bin" is bigger that we think. [:-)  KE1B/P is apparently compliant as the P's are split between countries and always have a letter or digit following.  KE1B/MM is open for discussion ... Mxxxxx is the UK but you're not supposed to be /MM unless you're in international waters and not subject to the FCC?

73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 11/2/2018 2:33 PM, David Sumner wrote:
Beats me, Rich. Repeaters are not relevant to N1MM+ but of course VHF contest rovers are.

I suppose this falls into the very large "the FCC doesn't care" bin. As a practical matter there's not much chance of confusion.

Dave K1ZZ




Jim W7RY
 

what about all those repeaters that sign WR6ABC/R? That would seem to indicate portable operation from Russia. 

No... Now that IS an FCC requirement! Please read the rules!

73
Jim W7RY
 


On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 4:04 PM Rich Seifert <ke1b@...> wrote:


On Nov 2, 2018, at 9:40 AM, David Sumner <sumner@...> wrote:


[snip]

(c) One or more indicators may be included with the call sign. Each indicator must be separated from the call sign by the slant mark (/) or by any suitable word that denotes the slant mark. If an indicator is self-assigned, it must be included before, after, or both before and after, the call sign. No self-assigned indicator may conflict with any other indicator specified by the FCC Rules or with any prefix assigned to another country.


While I agree with you, what about all those repeaters that sign WR6ABC/R? That would seem to indicate portable operation from Russia.

Rich KE1B

Jim W7RY
 

Now that I sent that... I did more research.. Since I was wrong...


No FCC rule says that /R is required for a repeater. BUT it used to be.

A long time ago, the FCC issued repeater licenses. WR7ACE (the 146.940 repeater on Mt. Spokane in Spokane Washington for example) was one of them.

Later in life, the FCC stopped doing that and did not require a separate repeater station license. So you simply used the owners (trustees) callsign with a /R at the end. 

Now that has been dropped too. So adding the /R to a repeater is no longer needed. 
Even though most repeaters still do.

73
Jim W7RY


While I agree with you, what about all those repeaters that sign WR6ABC/R? That would seem to indicate portable operation from Russia.

Rich KE1B

On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 4:04 PM Rich Seifert <ke1b@...> wrote:


On Nov 2, 2018, at 9:40 AM, David Sumner <sumner@...> wrote:


[snip]

(c) One or more indicators may be included with the call sign. Each indicator must be separated from the call sign by the slant mark (/) or by any suitable word that denotes the slant mark. If an indicator is self-assigned, it must be included before, after, or both before and after, the call sign. No self-assigned indicator may conflict with any other indicator specified by the FCC Rules or with any prefix assigned to another country.


While I agree with you, what about all those repeaters that sign WR6ABC/R? That would seem to indicate portable operation from Russia.

Rich KE1B