TBS 6903 - watch your updates!


David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

After the August Windows Update I started getting a large number of lost (and
missed/recovered) packets on my "single-cable" HVS-1/2 system. I tried various
things but could not resolved the issue. As the single-cable mode is coming to
the end of its usefulness with the end-of-year transponder changes, I moved the
HVS-1 part of that system to a network Ayecka SR-1 receiver (it has a 5-port
gigabit switch attached so it can feed several receivers). This left the HVS-2
with excess errors.

On checking the Windows drivers for the TBS 6903 card I noted I was running
v1.0.0.6, but earlier notes suggested that 1.0.0.5 might be better, so I
downgraded the drivers to 1.0.0.5 and all the lost and missed/recovered packet
counts dropped to zero!

Now although the problem surfaced after the August Windows updates, there's
nothing in the update history to suggest a driver was replaced, so perhaps that
was a coincidence, but I don't know.

Anyway, I suggest hanging on to older drivers for your non-standard hardware;
just in case! And don't forget the transponder changes - requires action if
you run HVS-2 or a "single-cable" system. HVS-3 is on its way next year!

https://www.eumetsat.int/eumetcast-europe-service-transponder-migration

Cheers,
David
--
SatSignal Software - Quality software for you
Web: https://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@...
Twitter: @gm8arv


James Brown
 

On 20 Sep 2022, at 14:04, David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺 via groups.io <david-taylor@...> wrote:

After the August Windows Update I started getting a large number of lost (and
missed/recovered) packets on my "single-cable" HVS-1/2 system. I tried various
things but could not resolved the issue. As the single-cable mode is coming to
the end of its usefulness with the end-of-year transponder changes, I moved the
HVS-1 part of that system to a network Ayecka SR-1 receiver (it has a 5-port
gigabit switch attached so it can feed several receivers). This left the HVS-2
with excess errors.

On checking the Windows drivers for the TBS 6903 card I noted I was running
v1.0.0.6, but earlier notes suggested that 1.0.0.5 might be better, so I
downgraded the drivers to 1.0.0.5 and all the lost and missed/recovered packet
counts dropped to zero!

Now although the problem surfaced after the August Windows updates, there's
nothing in the update history to suggest a driver was replaced, so perhaps that
was a coincidence, but I don't know.

Anyway, I suggest hanging on to older drivers for your non-standard hardware;
just in case! And don't forget the transponder changes - requires action if
you run HVS-2 or a "single-cable" system. HVS-3 is on its way next year!

https://www.eumetsat.int/eumetcast-europe-service-transponder-migration

Cheers,
David
--
Thanks David, two queries:

1: Do we have any prior knowledge of the signal strength on the new transponder relative to current HBS-2 levels?

2: Do we have any insights into what data will be carried on HVS-3 which might prompt some of us to consider an upgrade?

Cheers,
James.


David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

On 20/09/2022 15:16, James Brown wrote:
Thanks David, two queries:

1: Do we have any prior knowledge of the signal strength on the new transponder relative to current HBS-2 levels?

2: Do we have any insights into what data will be carried on HVS-3 which might prompt some of us to consider an upgrade?

Cheers,
James.
James,

1. I've been monitoring 11263 V for many years, and it always shows a slightly
better SNR than 11263 H. However, I don't know whether the mode it was using
such that it /appeared/ better. Attached is a plot from 17:35 UTC on Sep.18 -
I only take is as relative values from day to day, not absolute levels.

11263 V SNR: 12.5 dB
11388 H SNR: 11.5 dB

It seems that the 11263 V (the red line) may have a better SNR than the 11263
H, but that's just my setup and not a lab measurement. The 11263 V had
disappeared this evening, but you can see on the second (morning today) plot
that the red looked broader (more bandwidth) and at a lower level. Both the H
and V of the adjacent ~11300 channel were inactive. Look how much higher the
red no-signal line is. Measurements from others would be most welcome!

2. I guess the MTG data.

Cheers,
David
--
SatSignal Software - Quality software for you
Web: https://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@...
Twitter: @gm8arv


David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

On 20/09/2022 19:21, David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴 🇪🇺 via groups.io wrote:
Attachments:
10.0E-2022-09-19-1650-utc-5925.png:https://groups.io/g/MSG-1/attachment/33390/0
10.0E-2022-09-20-0410-utc-5925.png:https://groups.io/g/MSG-1/attachment/33390/1
Where did the 18th go?

Attached this time!

David
--
SatSignal Software - Quality software for you
Web: https://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@...
Twitter: @gm8arv


EUMETCast - NWP SAF: DE2MSF
 

I think the HVS-3 Channel is for future data of the MTG-Satellites.


James Brown
 

On 20 Sep 2022, at 19:21, David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺 via groups.io <david-taylor@...> wrote:

On 20/09/2022 15:16, James Brown wrote:
Thanks David, two queries:

1: Do we have any prior knowledge of the signal strength on the new transponder relative to current HBS-2 levels?

2: Do we have any insights into what data will be carried on HVS-3 which might prompt some of us to consider an upgrade?

Cheers,
James.
James,

1. I've been monitoring 11263 V for many years, and it always shows a slightly
better SNR than 11263 H. However, I don't know whether the mode it was using
such that it /appeared/ better. Attached is a plot from 17:35 UTC on Sep.18 -
I only take is as relative values from day to day, not absolute levels.

11263 V SNR: 12.5 dB
11388 H SNR: 11.5 dB

It seems that the 11263 V (the red line) may have a better SNR than the 11263
H, but that's just my setup and not a lab measurement. The 11263 V had
disappeared this evening, but you can see on the second (morning today) plot
that the red looked broader (more bandwidth) and at a lower level. Both the H
and V of the adjacent ~11300 channel were inactive. Look how much higher the
red no-signal line is. Measurements from others would be most welcome!

2. I guess the MTG data.

Cheers,
David
--
Many thanks David for the graphs. They are encouraging. It will be interesting to see what happens on changeover day.

And thank you to you and others indicating the likelihood of the next generation data on HVS-3.

I imagine Python or the Eumetsat software will need to be the route for displays - even if we have the necessary hardware, or I’m still around!

Cheers.

James.


geojohnt@...
 

Hello James, David and All,

Oh my goodness, I've just woken up:

https://www.eumetsat.int/eumetcast-europe-service-transponder-migration

I hadn't bothered too much with this - awaiting the launch, hopefully in December, of Eutelsat E 10-B and not having to do anything till the change of satellite.

I've been monitoring eutelsat.com for ages to try to find out the likely power contours for 10-B compared to 10-A but still no information.
I asked EUMETSAT several months ago but they couldn't find out.

But I see now that in December BAS/HVS-1 and HVS-2 will be on the same frequency - but different polarities.
Check your skew!

And that this will be the case when moving to E 10-B in the New Year.

Regards,
John




-----Original Message-----
From: James Brown <satellite@...>
To: MSG-1@groups.io
Sent: Tue, 20 Sep 2022 15:16
Subject: Re: [MSG-1] TBS 6903 - watch your updates!


> On 20 Sep 2022, at 14:04, David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺 via groups.io <david-taylor=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
>
> After the August Windows Update I started getting a large number of lost (and
> missed/recovered) packets on my "single-cable" HVS-1/2 system.  I tried various
> things but could not resolved the issue.  As the single-cable mode is coming to
> the end of its usefulness with the end-of-year transponder changes, I moved the
> HVS-1 part of that system to a network Ayecka SR-1 receiver (it has a 5-port
> gigabit switch attached so it can feed several receivers).  This left the HVS-2
> with excess errors.
>
> On checking the Windows drivers for the TBS 6903 card I noted I was running
> v1.0.0.6, but earlier notes suggested that 1.0.0.5 might be better, so I
> downgraded the drivers to 1.0.0.5 and all the lost and missed/recovered packet
> counts dropped to zero!
>
> Now although the problem surfaced after the August Windows updates, there's
> nothing in the update history to suggest a driver was replaced, so perhaps that
> was a coincidence, but I don't know.
>
> Anyway, I suggest hanging on to older drivers for your non-standard hardware;
> just in case!  And don't forget the transponder changes - requires action if
> you run HVS-2 or a "single-cable" system.  HVS-3 is on its way next year!
>
https://www.eumetsat.int/eumetcast-europe-service-transponder-migration
>
> Cheers,
> David
> --

Thanks David, two queries:

1: Do we have any prior knowledge of the signal strength on the new transponder relative to current HBS-2 levels?

2: Do we have any insights into what data will be carried on HVS-3 which might prompt some of us to consider an upgrade?

Cheers,
James.






David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

On 21/09/2022 14:17, geojohnt via groups.io wrote:
Hello James, David and All,

Oh my goodness, I've just woken up:

https://www.eumetsat.int/eumetcast-europe-service-transponder-migration

I hadn't bothered too much with this - awaiting the launch, hopefully in
December, of Eutelsat E 10-B and not having to do anything till the change of
satellite.

I've been monitoring eutelsat.com for ages to try to find out the likely power
contours for 10-B compared to 10-A but still no information.
I asked EUMETSAT several months ago but they couldn't find out.

But I see now that in December BAS/HVS-1 and HVS-2 will be on the same
frequency - but different polarities.
Check your skew!

And that this will be the case when moving to E 10-B in the New Year.

Regards,
John
Morning, John!

Good point!

My guess is that the contours for 10B will be the same as what 10A should have
been at the start of its life. I hope that they will actually be better, and
of course, there may be new services. They probably can't be significantly
difference to avoid interference to adjacent satellites.

I am hoping that antenna realignment will bot be required.

For folk just taking BAS/HVS-1 there should be no change, apart from a
frequency change next year. That's just a software tweak in one dialogue. For
HVS-2 users they just need to ensure that the second output of their LNB is
connected to their HVS-2 receiver. No skew change should be required.

Of course, that's all theory, and it remains to be seen what happens in practice!

Cheers,
David
--
SatSignal Software - Quality software for you
Web: https://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@...
Twitter: @gm8arv


Robert Moore
 

I might use this as an opportunity to try to improve my signal if I can find a suitably qualified installer. I’m sure my SNR can be increased (or at least I can’t see why it should not). But before I do anything: ‘Please be aware that the parabolic (prime-focus) dish antennas don’t support using multiple LNBs.’ How do I know what kind of dish I have?

 

Robert

 

 

From: MSG-1@groups.io <MSG-1@groups.io> On Behalf Of geojohnt via groups.io
Sent: 21 September 2022 14:18
To: MSG-1@groups.io
Subject: Re: [MSG-1] TBS 6903 - watch your updates!

 

Hello James, David and All,

 

Oh my goodness, I've just woken up:

 

 

I hadn't bothered too much with this - awaiting the launch, hopefully in December, of Eutelsat E 10-B and not having to do anything till the change of satellite.

 

I've been monitoring eutelsat.com for ages to try to find out the likely power contours for 10-B compared to 10-A but still no information.

I asked EUMETSAT several months ago but they couldn't find out.

 

But I see now that in December BAS/HVS-1 and HVS-2 will be on the same frequency - but different polarities.

Check your skew!

 

And that this will be the case when moving to E 10-B in the New Year.

 

Regards,

John

 



-----Original Message-----
From: James Brown <satellite@...>
To: MSG-1@groups.io
Sent: Tue, 20 Sep 2022 15:16
Subject: Re: [MSG-1] TBS 6903 - watch your updates!


> On 20 Sep 2022, at 14:04, David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺 via groups.io <david-taylor=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
>
> After the August Windows Update I started getting a large number of lost (and
> missed/recovered) packets on my "single-cable" HVS-1/2 system.  I tried various
> things but could not resolved the issue.  As the single-cable mode is coming to
> the end of its usefulness with the end-of-year transponder changes, I moved the
> HVS-1 part of that system to a network Ayecka SR-1 receiver (it has a 5-port
> gigabit switch attached so it can feed several receivers).  This left the HVS-2
> with excess errors.
>
> On checking the Windows drivers for the TBS 6903 card I noted I was running
> v1.0.0.6, but earlier notes suggested that 1.0.0.5 might be better, so I
> downgraded the drivers to 1.0.0.5 and all the lost and missed/recovered packet
> counts dropped to zero!
>
> Now although the problem surfaced after the August Windows updates, there's
> nothing in the update history to suggest a driver was replaced, so perhaps that
> was a coincidence, but I don't know.
>
> Anyway, I suggest hanging on to older drivers for your non-standard hardware;
> just in case!  And don't forget the transponder changes - requires action if
> you run HVS-2 or a "single-cable" system.  HVS-3 is on its way next year!
>
https://www.eumetsat.int/eumetcast-europe-service-transponder-migration
>
> Cheers,
> David
> --

Thanks David, two queries:

1: Do we have any prior knowledge of the signal strength on the new transponder relative to current HBS-2 levels?

2: Do we have any insights into what data will be carried on HVS-3 which might prompt some of us to consider an upgrade?

Cheers,
James.





Ernst Lobsiger
 

Robert,

1) You do not have a prime focus antenna which can be seen by the LNB arm and width:height of the dish (the difference of these antenna types is easy to google)
2) For future EUMETCast (BAS + HVS-1) + HVS-2 + HVS-3 you will not need multiple LNBs but depending on your receiver(s) setup a Twin LNB or a Quad LNB.
    This is from what EUMETSAT has published way back and I have explained already.     https://www.eumetsat.int/eumetcast-europe-service-transponder-migration

Ernst


Robert Moore
 

Thanks Ernst, we were both referring to the same Eumetsat document.  I didn’t want to embark on another expensive round of work on my system and then discover I had the wrong kind of dish. So, with that problem out of the way I can now think about moving forward (when I can find someone to do the work!)

 

Robert

 

 

From: MSG-1@groups.io <MSG-1@groups.io> On Behalf Of Ernst Lobsiger via groups.io
Sent: 21 September 2022 18:36
To: MSG-1@groups.io
Subject: Re: [MSG-1] TBS 6903 - watch your updates!

 

Robert,

1) You do not have a prime focus antenna which can be seen by the LNB arm and width:height of the dish (the difference of these antenna types is easy to google)
2) For future EUMETCast (BAS + HVS-1) + HVS-2 + HVS-3 you will not need multiple LNBs but depending on your receiver(s) setup a Twin LNB or a Quad LNB.
    This is from what EUMETSAT has published way back and I have explained already.     https://www.eumetsat.int/eumetcast-europe-service-transponder-migration

Ernst


geojohnt@...
 

Robert,

Just to say before you think of calling in the engineers again you will need to wait till December 23rd when EUMETSAT will have BAS/HVS-1 and HVS-2 on the same frequency but different polarisation.




I see this morning at 10:55 UTC that 11.263 GHz V was transmitting.
David said this was the case the other day.

This channel used to be used by Russian Tricolor TV but it hasn't been listed by flysat.com for some time.
Looking today, 11.263 GHz V isn't listed.

My readings - only power as my Inverto SatPal meter can't 'decode' VCM (or the Tricolor format) so can't show SNR, are - 1 M dish Inverto Black Utlra LNB, light cloud:

11.263 GHz H, 88.1 dBuV, 100%, -20.7 dBm.

11.263 GHz V, 72.3 dBuV, 79%, -36.4 dBm.

Regards,
John





 


-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Moore <rsmoore@...>
To: MSG-1@groups.io <MSG-1@groups.io>
Sent: Wed, 21 Sep 2022 22:33
Subject: Re: [MSG-1] TBS 6903 - watch your updates!

Thanks Ernst, we were both referring to the same Eumetsat document.  I didn’t want to embark on another expensive round of work on my system and then discover I had the wrong kind of dish. So, with that problem out of the way I can now think about moving forward (when I can find someone to do the work!)
 
Robert
 
 
From: MSG-1@groups.io <MSG-1@groups.io> On Behalf Of Ernst Lobsiger via groups.io
Sent: 21 September 2022 18:36
To: MSG-1@groups.io
Subject: Re: [MSG-1] TBS 6903 - watch your updates!
 
Robert,

1) You do not have a prime focus antenna which can be seen by the LNB arm and width:height of the dish (the difference of these antenna types is easy to google)
2) For future EUMETCast (BAS + HVS-1) + HVS-2 + HVS-3 you will not need multiple LNBs but depending on your receiver(s) setup a Twin LNB or a Quad LNB.
    This is from what EUMETSAT has published way back and I have explained already.     https://www.eumetsat.int/eumetcast-europe-service-transponder-migration

Ernst


Robert Moore
 

Thanks for the reminder, John – so it will have to wait until after Christmas. Meanwhile I get most of what I need on the basic service, but I do miss GOES imagery for western Atlantic and Caribbean.

Robert

 

 

From: MSG-1@groups.io <MSG-1@groups.io> On Behalf Of geojohnt via groups.io
Sent: 22 September 2022 12:55
To: MSG-1@groups.io
Subject: Re: [MSG-1] TBS 6903 - watch your updates!

 

Robert,

 

Just to say before you think of calling in the engineers again you will need to wait till December 23rd when EUMETSAT will have BAS/HVS-1 and HVS-2 on the same frequency but different polarisation.

 

 

 

 

I see this morning at 10:55 UTC that 11.263 GHz V was transmitting.

David said this was the case the other day.

 

This channel used to be used by Russian Tricolor TV but it hasn't been listed by flysat.com for some time.

Looking today, 11.263 GHz V isn't listed.

 

My readings - only power as my Inverto SatPal meter can't 'decode' VCM (or the Tricolor format) so can't show SNR, are - 1 M dish Inverto Black Utlra LNB, light cloud:

 

11.263 GHz H, 88.1 dBuV, 100%, -20.7 dBm.

 

11.263 GHz V, 72.3 dBuV, 79%, -36.4 dBm.

 

Regards,

John

 

 

 

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Moore <rsmoore@...>
To: MSG-1@groups.io <MSG-1@groups.io>
Sent: Wed, 21 Sep 2022 22:33
Subject: Re: [MSG-1] TBS 6903 - watch your updates!

Thanks Ernst, we were both referring to the same Eumetsat document.  I didn’t want to embark on another expensive round of work on my system and then discover I had the wrong kind of dish. So, with that problem out of the way I can now think about moving forward (when I can find someone to do the work!)

 

Robert

 

 

From: MSG-1@groups.io <MSG-1@groups.io> On Behalf Of Ernst Lobsiger via groups.io
Sent: 21 September 2022 18:36
To:
MSG-1@groups.io
Subject: Re: [MSG-1] TBS 6903 - watch your updates!

 

Robert,

1) You do not have a prime focus antenna which can be seen by the LNB arm and width:height of the dish (the difference of these antenna types is easy to google)
2) For future EUMETCast (BAS + HVS-1) + HVS-2 + HVS-3 you will not need multiple LNBs but depending on your receiver(s) setup a Twin LNB or a Quad LNB.
    This is from what EUMETSAT has published way back and I have explained already.     https://www.eumetsat.int/eumetcast-europe-service-transponder-migration

Ernst


stevens312
 

David, glad it's not just me getting the problem, I have had to watch every Windows 10 up-date carefully and always hold on to older Drivers, it got so bad last year I went back to Windows 8.1, and since then no problems at all, its reminded me to talk to Bob at TBS about this.
Regards to all.
Mike G4CFZ.


Ernst Lobsiger
 

On Tue, Sep 20, 2022 at 06:04 AM, David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺 wrote:
And don't forget the transponder changes - requires action if
you run HVS-2 or a "single-cable" system. HVS-3 is on its way next year!

https://www.eumetsat.int/eumetcast-europe-service-transponder-migration

Cheers,
David
Dear All,

for those few users under GNU/Linux with maybe single cable systems
these are possible future setups that you can use with T1 + T2 ( + T3):

If you use a TBS-6903 PCIe card you need two IF cables from your LNB
(TWIN or QUAD) that you plug into LNB0 and LNB1 sockets on the card.
When loading the driver module stv6120 you have to set rfsource=0
First cable: (BAS + HVS-1) on dvb0
Second cable: HVS-1 on dvb1  (2022/11/24 switch C10 to C3)

If you use a TBS-6909X PCIe card you need two IF cables from your LNB
(TWIN or QUAD) that you plug into the LNB0 and LNB1 sockets on the card.
When loading the driver module stid135 you have to set mode=1 rfsource=0

For rather recent driver modules you also have to set ts_nosync=1 while
older driver modules did set that automatically detecting EUMETCast. See
# modinfo stid135 as root whether or not you have this module parameter!

The best current TBS-6909X setup you can have is using 3 demodulators
First  cable: (BAS with MODCODs 8psk 3/5 set) on dvb0 + HVS-1 on dvb1
Second cable: HVS-2 on dvb2 (2022/11/24 switch C10 to C3)

This above two cable TBS-6909X setup can still be used when HVS-3 starts
First  cable: (BAS + HVS-1) on dvb0  + HVS-3 on dvb1
Second cable: HVS-2 on dvb2

IF you still want to set MODCODs for BAS on a TBS-6909X after 2023/07/01
you can use 4 demodulators. You will need three IF cables from a QUAD LNB
or two IF cables plus a splitter in front of the card from a TWIN/QUAD LNB.

Cheers,
Ernst

P.S.
EUMETSAT recommends QUATTRO LNBs. Be sure to understand the difference
between QUAD and QUATTRO that has already been discussed on the MSG-1 list.