Date
1 - 12 of 12
Old HVS-2 transponder now off
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It looks like the C10 transponder for HVS-2 was switched off around 11:00 this morning (2023-Jan-02):
http://darlington-weather.uk/MRTG/mallard-bdadataex-lm.html Everyone else looks to have changed: https://www.satsignal.eu/mrtg/performance_eumetcast-europe_link_margin.php#t2 Cheers, David -- SatSignal Software - Quality software for you Web: https://www.satsignal.eu Email: david-taylor@... Twitter: @gm8arv |
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Ernst Lobsiger
On Mon, Jan 2, 2023 at 08:02 AM, David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴 🇪🇺 wrote:
It looks like the C10 transponder for HVS-2 was switched off around 11:00 this morning (2023-Jan-02):David, do you have received any hint from EUMETSAT how the final C3 signal will look like? Will Telespazio C3, currently CCM, be changed back to ACM/VCM as C4 from A1 still is ? Ernst |
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On 02/01/2023 16:16, Ernst Lobsiger via groups.io wrote:
David,Ernst, No, I don't know. I do see some missed & recovered, whereas I have seen zero in the past (weather permitting!), so it's possible that /something/ isn't correct. I suggest that you inform EUMETSAT about this issue so that it can be addressed. I'm unclear what making it ACM/VCM would achieve, though. Happy New Year! Cheers, David -- SatSignal Software - Quality software for you Web: https://www.satsignal.eu Email: david-taylor@... Twitter: @gm8arv |
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Ernst Lobsiger
On Mon, Jan 2, 2023 at 08:26 AM, David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴 🇪🇺 wrote:
I do see some missed & recovered, whereas I have seen zero in the past (weather permitting!David, I cannot see how Telespazio can change the C4 signal from what it has always been (ACM/VCM, and as long as again provided by Austria A1 still is), to something else without breaking again the possibility to use BAS with MODCOD filters if link margins are low (we had that experience for some days after December 15th 2022). From the driver point of view having the same (HVS-1/2) 16APSK 2/3 ACM/VCM settings on C4 and C3 would certainly be a good thing. Currently we have: C4 (ACM/VCM, dummy frames, NO extra PIDs, variable bit rate) uplinked by Austria A1 C3 (CCM, stuffing packets, TV extra PIDs, constant bit rate) uplinked by Telespazio Having a closer look at missed/recovered packets on C3 shows that these are receiver independent. Looking at graphs of Petersfield, Ringwood and Naila on your monitoring page it seems that these HVS-2 missed/recovered bursts are basically also station independent. This might hint to a latency problem in the Telespazio C3 uplink chain. Happy New Year! Best regards, Ernst P.S. Attached my C3 monitoring from two *very* different DVB-S2 receivers, a TBS6909X PCIe card (Kallisto) and a TBS5930 USB box (Ganymed). 
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Graham Woolf
Hi Ernst
The Ringwood one is my station with the TBS6909X you helped set up Kind Regards Graham |
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On 02/01/2023 17:44, Ernst Lobsiger via groups.io wrote:
David,Ah, OK, Ernst. I was thinking purely of C3 (HVS-2) when there should be no need for any MODCOD switching. But I can see that it could make driver design a little easier were the two services to have the same mode of operation, even if C3 will never carry BAS. But it might be needed some day. If you can put these points to EUMETSAT it would help. By the way, I would be interested to see your missed/recovered HVS-2 data for the 24 hours up to midnight so we can compare with the Ayecka systems which you can already see on my plots. HVS-2 should be lossless - given a reasonable signal, as expect you used to see. That's another driver. Cheers, David -- SatSignal Software - Quality software for you Web: https://www.satsignal.eu Email: david-taylor@... Twitter: @gm8arv |
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Ernst Lobsiger
On Mon, Jan 2, 2023 at 11:06 AM, David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴 🇪🇺 wrote:
By the way, I would be interested to see your missed/recovered HVS-2 data for the 24 hours up to midnight so we can compare with the Ayecka systems which you can already see on my plots.David, here is my monitoring for the time span I currently see on your page. Cheers, Ernst 
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On 02/01/2023 19:39, Ernst Lobsiger via groups.io wrote:
David,Thanks, Ernst. Here's a quick comparison with Thorsten's from Naila, DE. Good correlation! Cheers, David -- SatSignal Software - Quality software for you Web: https://www.satsignal.eu Email: david-taylor@... Twitter: @gm8arv 
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Ernst Lobsiger
On Mon, Jan 2, 2023 at 11:03 PM, David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴 🇪🇺 wrote:
Good correlation!David, to make a more meaningful comparison with Thorsten's receiver 'Wetter' I reduced my received HVS-2 channels to what he takes (E2H-S3A-02, E2H-S3B-02, OLCI ERR only). There is an additional problem in the monitoring used MRTG/rateup versus eLuna/RRDtool. Rateup stores up to two integer variables in a file and uses gd routines to make graphic output. Thorsten gave me access to this integer file and I found 50 hours of 5 minute resolution on top. Then data is compressed to half hour resolution... https://github.com/oetiker/mrtg/blob/master/src/src/rateup.c RRDtool stores in a Round Robin Database (RRD) any number and type of variables. An RRD can be designed and created to the users need. My missed/recovered RRD stores 7 days in 5 minute resolution. Then data is compressed to half hour resolution... RRDtool uses Cairo to produce many kind of graphic timelines. Due to differences how these databases are filled we cannot compare absolute values of single events like missed/recovered. E.g. RRDtool shows ONE missed packet (in 5 minutes) as ONE bar height of 12/hour. Rateup normally shows TWO bars of height 7 and 4. This makes 11/hour as it includes an integer rounding error. Mean values over longer periods are identical though. To make the comparison more obvious I used GNU-Plot to show the data from Thorsten's receiver 'Wetter'. The attached plots prove that two VERY different TC receivers see identical missed/recovered events on HVS-2 (transponder C3). So this MUST be an Uplink problem. Windows Receiver 'Wetter', Novra300 router, monitoring MRTG/rateup GNU/Linux receiver 'Kallisto', TBS-6909X, monitoring eLuna/RRDtool Cheers, Ernst @Thorsten, thank you for your help to make this little experiment 
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On 09/01/2023 12:24, Ernst Lobsiger via groups.io wrote:
To make the comparison more obvious I used GNU-Plot to show the Cheers,Yes, I've made this point a couple of times now in my daily report. I'm unsure when everyone is back, and unsure of the timescale for Telespazio to come up with a solution, but HVS-2 (C3) is definitely not correct. The transport streams aren't the same as on C10, so we do have something to aim for. I think that if I haven't heard anything back by, say, Thursday I might put in a report to Ops. I am conscious that to keep complaining can make problems go to the bottom of the pile! Cheers, David -- SatSignal Software - Quality software for you Web: https://www.satsignal.eu Email: david-taylor@... Twitter: @gm8arv |
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Ernst Lobsiger
On Mon, Jan 9, 2023 at 08:03 AM, David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴 🇪🇺 wrote:
David, it might be a little bit early but it seems to me that the component producing latency related (?) missed/recovered packets has been found in the up link chain. This started with a loss of lock Wed 11 Jan 2023 after a long quiet period. It almost looked like switching/re-plugging a cable ;-). Since then I have seen few events probably all local. Thorsten has even none (!) HVS-2 events anymore (receiver 'Wetter' at Naila takes only OLCI ERR. This is a small part of what 'Kallisto' currently takes. Therefore fewer events can/must be expected ...). http://www.ing-miglus.de/eumetcast/hvs-2_missed_recovered.html  Is there any news from EUMETSAT regarding HVS-2 on transponder C3 managed by Telespazio? Best regards, Ernst |
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On 14/01/2023 10:15, Ernst Lobsiger via groups.io wrote:
David,Ernst, I noticed the lack of miss/recovered packets too, and reported this to EUMETSAT. None on Jan-12 or Jan-13. I'm not aware of any change being made and the transport stream still shows unwanted items. My tests are with TBS5925 for transport streams, and Ayecka SR1 for missed/recovered TelliCast packets. I take the full advertised HVS-2 stream, but it's only error free on rare good-weather days! We know that the link between Darmstadt and Telespazio was being checked, so perhaps something was found? It was OK leaving Darmstadt, not OK down from EUTELSAT 10B. I've heard nothing otherwise regarding C3, but I understand C4 BAS/HVS-1 content is being tested with revised uplink firmware/software on the standby HotBird satellite. I can't monitor that. Cheers, David -- SatSignal Software - Quality software for you Web: https://www.satsignal.eu Email: david-taylor@... Twitter: @gm8arv |
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