EUMETCast Europe High Volume Service - Transponder migration in 2022


David J Taylor GM8ARV ๐Ÿด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ณ๓ ฃ๓ ด๓ ฟ ๐Ÿ‡ช๐Ÿ‡บ
 

In case you haven't already seen this:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dear EUMETCast-Europe User,

EUMETSAT operates EUMETCast Europe in Ku-band via EUTELSAT 10A (E10A). The E10A satellite reaches its end of life in 2023 and will be replaced by E10B.

The second transponder used for EUMETCast Europe High Volume Service, C10, cannot be used at the same downlink frequency on E10B, so migration to a different transponder, C3, is required. This migration is foreseen in 2022 on E10A, and the replacement of E10A by E10B will then be transparent to users. The migration will include a parallel downlink period on the old and new transponders, to allow sufficient time for users to adapt their reception equipment.

For more details, including information on what users need to do to prepare for the migration, please see our web news:

EUMETCast Europe service โ€“ transponder migration | EUMETSAT

https://www.eumetsat.int/eumetcast-europe-service-transponder-migration

With best regards,
EUMETSAT User Service
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Cheers,
David
--
SatSignal Software - Quality software for you
Web: https://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk
Twitter: @gm8arv


Ernst Lobsiger
 

David,

thanks for the heads up. I was about to ask OPS concerning these migrations as I was not
sure whether future HVS-3 would be on the same downlink sat. What EUMETSAT plans now is
mainly good news as we can go in the near future with one antenna and downlink sat only!

Nevertheless a couple of TC users might be affected by the first step C10 --> C3 in 2022.
If you use CrazyCat's single cable solution with a TBS-6983/03/08 or TBS-6903X to receive
BASIC + HVS-1 + HVS-2 you will need at least a *TWIN* LNB and two cables to your antenna.
The same is true for users with 2 USB boxes and/or DVB routers with single cable plus splitter.


Regards,
Ernst

P.S.
With 4 cables + *QUAD* LNB + suitable TBS-card(s) you are ready including HVS-3 in July 2023.


geojohnt@...
 

David,

Thanks for this.
That's interesting - we were 'expecting' HVS 3 to be disseminated from a different satellite.
As Ernst said this has/will now be, avoided.

I've been Googling around for some time looking for the technical specification of Eutelsat 10B - but to no avail.
It would be interesting to see its downlink beam configuration and power levels?

Regards,
John.

++++++++++++++++++

-----Original Message-----
From: David J Taylor GM8ARV ๐Ÿด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ณ๓ ฃ๓ ด๓ ฟ ๐Ÿ‡ช๐Ÿ‡บ via groups.io <david-taylor@...>
To: MSG-1@groups.io
Sent: Thu, 9 Sep 2021 11:34
Subject: [MSG-1] EUMETCast Europe High Volume Service - Transponder migration in 2022

In case you haven't already seen this:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dear EUMETCast-Europe User,

EUMETSAT operates EUMETCast Europe in Ku-band via EUTELSAT 10A (E10A). The E10A
satellite reaches its end of life in 2023 and will be replaced by E10B.

The second transponder used for EUMETCast Europe High Volume Service, C10,
cannot be used at the same downlink frequency on E10B, so migration to a
different transponder, C3, is required. This migration is foreseen in 2022 on
E10A, and the replacement of E10A by E10B will then be transparent to users.
The migration will include a parallel downlink period on the old and new
transponders, to allow sufficient time for users to adapt their reception
equipment.

For more details, including information on what users need to do to prepare for
the migration, please see our web news:

EUMETCast Europe service โ€“ transponder migration | EUMETSAT


With best regards,
EUMETSAT User Service
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Cheers,
David
--
SatSignal Software - Quality software for you
Twitter: @gm8arv

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-



David J Taylor GM8ARV ๐Ÿด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ณ๓ ฃ๓ ด๓ ฟ ๐Ÿ‡ช๐Ÿ‡บ
 

On 09/09/2021 12:41, Ernst Lobsiger via groups.io wrote:
David,
thanks for the heads up. I was about to ask OPS concerning these migrations as I was not
sure whether future HVS-3 would be on the same downlink sat. What EUMETSAT plans now is
mainly good news as we can go in the near future with one antenna and downlink sat only!
Nevertheless a couple of TC users might be affected by the first step C10 --> C3 in 2022.
If you use CrazyCat's single cable solution with a TBS-6983/03/08 or TBS-6903X to receive
BASIC + HVS-1 + HVS-2 you will need at least a *TWIN* LNB and two cables to your antenna.
The same is true for users with 2 USB boxes and/or DVB routers with single cable plus splitter.
Regards,
Ernst
P.S.
With 4 cables + *QUAD* LNB + suitable TBS-card(s) you are ready including HVS-3 in July 2023.
Yes, Ernst, I've been recommending QUAD for some time!

I'm unsure what is going to be on the different services. I recall that Sentinel data is being dropped from HVS-2 at the end of the year. Did I remember that correctly? So what will it used for - MTG-1 test data?

With the link margin being so low on that service at present I don't use any of the data - there are plenty of Internet sources already - but I do have one TelliCast instance monitoring it. I'll have to consider what to do nearer the time.

The good news is that the present C3 signal (11262.5 MHz vertical) - red in the attached plot - appears stronger than the present C4 signal (current BAS etc.), and much stronger than the present 11387.5 MHz horizontal. So maybe HVS-2 will enjoy a brief reprise? Of course, that's one measurement at one location. Can you confirm that? It may also be that C3 also needs to be backed off more for acceptable 16APSK performance.

Cheers,
David
--
SatSignal Software - Quality software for you
Web: https://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk
Twitter: @gm8arv


David J Taylor GM8ARV ๐Ÿด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ณ๓ ฃ๓ ด๓ ฟ ๐Ÿ‡ช๐Ÿ‡บ
 

On 09/09/2021 14:10, geojohnt via groups.io wrote:
David,
Thanks for this.
That's interesting - we were 'expecting' HVS 3 to be disseminated from a different satellite.
As Ernst said this has/will now be, avoided.
I've been Googling around for some time looking for the technical specification of Eutelsat 10B - but to no avail.
It would be interesting to see its downlink beam configuration and power levels?
Regards,
John.
John,

Same orbital location - great! Different satellite, of course. Oh, and not yet launched:


https://www.satellitetoday.com/launch/2020/12/16/arianespace-to-launch-eutelsat-10b-in-2022/

As it's intended "to ensure service continuity for existing customers on Eutelsat 10A" there's no reason to expect higher signal levels per se (but one can hope!) but at least the transponders should not be nearing end of life. "Continuity" is mentioned here:

https://www.eutelsat.com/satellites/future-satellites.html?#eutelsat-10b

It's "All Electric" - no steam power!

Cheers,
David
--
SatSignal Software - Quality software for you
Web: https://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk
Twitter: @gm8arv


Ernst Lobsiger
 

On Thu, Sep 9, 2021 at 06:45 AM, David J Taylor GM8ARV ๐Ÿด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ณ๓ ฃ๓ ด๓ ฟ ๐Ÿ‡ช๐Ÿ‡บ wrote:
I'm unsure what is going to be on the different services. I recall that Sentinel data is being dropped from HVS-2 at the end of the year. Did I remember that correctly? So what will it used for - MTG-1 test data?
David,

IIRC Sentinel-3X was anounced to be dropped from HVS-2 by end of this year (?!). But later this deadline was postponed to give users more time to adapt their processing chains. Not sure a new deadline exists at present.

Regards,
Ernst


David J Taylor GM8ARV ๐Ÿด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ณ๓ ฃ๓ ด๓ ฟ ๐Ÿ‡ช๐Ÿ‡บ
 

On 09/09/2021 15:32, Ernst Lobsiger via groups.io wrote:
David,
IIRC Sentinel-3X was anounced to be dropped from HVS-2 by end of this year (?!). But later this deadline was postponed to give users more time to adapt their processing chains. Not sure a new deadline exists at present.
Regards,
Ernst
Thanks, Ernst!

David
--
SatSignal Software - Quality software for you
Web: https://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk
Twitter: @gm8arv


Ian Deans
 

On 09/09/2021 14:51, David J Taylor GM8ARV ๐Ÿด ๐Ÿ‡ช๐Ÿ‡บ via groups.io wrote:
On 09/09/2021 14:10, geojohnt via groups.io wrote:
John,
Same orbital location - great!ย  Different satellite, of course.ย  Oh, and not yet launched:
==============================================================

Yes the tentative launch date for 10B at the moment is December 2022, so we are probably about 2 years away yet from the switch over.

Regards
Ian.


George Sz
 

For those still wishing for a single cable installation (or can't run another cable), there is actually a solution: Unicable. As an example, here's this product: Inverto Unicable II LNB. I just wonder if there is an opensource solution to program this, because buying that SatPal programmer would be a waste for a single use installation. Relying on "on the fly" DiSEqC commands would still work but on a power cut those would be reset. All in all, not super reliable, I think. So best would be to permanently program the Eumetcast TPs for 3 selected user bands.

Regards,
George


Ernst Lobsiger
 

On Thu, Sep 9, 2021 at 06:45 AM, David J Taylor GM8ARV ๐Ÿด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ณ๓ ฃ๓ ด๓ ฟ ๐Ÿ‡ช๐Ÿ‡บ wrote:
I'm unsure what is going to be on the different services. I recall that Sentinel data is being dropped from HVS-2 at the end of the year. Did I remember that correctly? So what will it used for - MTG-1 test data?
David and All,

I have to correct myself regarding the end of Sentinel-3X OLCI ERF dissemination on HVS-2. The original deadline was set for 29. July 2021 and this has been extended in an e-Mail dating 26.01.2021. OPS wrote:

<cite>
Dear User,

ย 

Following up on our email below, sent to you in September last year, we would like to inform you that we have decided to temporarily keep the Sentinel-3 OLCI Level-1 Full Resolution Near Real Time data on EUMETCast Satellite beyond 29 July 2021, to allow more time for users to transition to the available alternative access services.

ย 

A new date for the removal of these data from EUMETCast Satellite has not been defined yet, but it is likely to be during the last quarter of 2021.

<snip>

The Sentinel-3 data are currently planned to be made available from the EUMETSAT Data Store by the end of this year. In view of this, we would also be interested to have an idea of your readiness to set up API access to take full advantage of the NRT data that will be available from the Data Store.

<snip>


</cite>

So even if it's not 100% sure and we have no fixed date yet we must assume and be ready that Sentinel-3X OLCI EFR dissemination on HVS-2 ends by the end of 2021 as David recalled in the first place.

Regards,
Ernst

ย 


Thorsten Miglus
 

Hi All,

the EUMETCast quad LNB kit. :-)

Regards,
Thorsten



geojohnt@...
 

David,

>As it's intended "to ensure service continuity for existing customers on
>Eutelsat 10A" there's no reason to expect higher signal levels per se (but one
>can hope!) but at least the transponders should not be nearing end of life.
>"Continuity" is mentioned here:

ย >ย https://www.eutelsat.com/satellites/future-satellites.html?#eutelsat-10b

Yes, I found that link, but these days E 10 A's power output is low compared to many other similarย  satellites:

Max Power contour level:

E 9B 51dBw.

A 10A 48dBw. Madagascar and south central Africa have 52 dBw.

E 13B, C and E have 53dBw.

E 16A - Europe A 49dBw, Europe B 50dBw, Europe C 52dBw.

So I quite expect E 10B to have a higher power output.

We shall see?

Regards,
John.

ย ++++++++++++++++++++


-----Original Message-----
From: David J Taylor GM8ARV ๐Ÿด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ณ๓ ฃ๓ ด๓ ฟ ๐Ÿ‡ช๐Ÿ‡บ via groups.io <david-taylor@...>
To: MSG-1@groups.io
Sent: Thu, 9 Sep 2021 14:51
Subject: Re: [MSG-1] EUMETCast Europe High Volume Service - Transponder migration in 2022

On 09/09/2021 14:10, geojohnt via groups.io wrote:
> David,
>
> Thanks for this.
> That's interesting - we were 'expecting' HVS 3 to be disseminated from a
> different satellite.
> As Ernst said this has/will now be, avoided.
>
> I've been Googling around for some time looking for the technical specification
> of Eutelsat 10B - but to no avail.
> It would be interesting to see its downlink beam configuration and power levels?
>
> Regards,
> John.

John,

Same orbital location - great!ย  Different satellite, of course.ย  Oh, and not
yet launched:


https://www.satellitetoday.com/launch/2020/12/16/arianespace-to-launch-eutelsat-10b-in-2022/

As it's intended "to ensure service continuity for existing customers on
Eutelsat 10A" there's no reason to expect higher signal levels per se (but one
can hope!) but at least the transponders should not be nearing end of life.
"Continuity" is mentioned here:

ย  https://www.eutelsat.com/satellites/future-satellites.html?#eutelsat-10b

It's "All Electric" - no steam power!


Cheers,
David
--
SatSignal Software - Quality software for you
Web: https://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@...
Twitter: @gm8arv




Ernst Lobsiger
 

> The good news is that the present C3 signal (11262.5 MHz vertical) - red in the attached plot - appears stronger
> than the present C4 signal (current BAS etc.), and much stronger than the present 11387.5 MHz horizontal.ย  So
> maybe HVS-2 will enjoy a brief reprise?ย  Of course, that's one measurement at one location. Can you confirm that? > It may also be that C3 also needs to be backed off more for acceptable 16APSK performance.

> Cheers,
> David


David,

is your plot showing C3 = 11263 VERTICAL (red) current? If so, what is disseminated on transponder C3 right now?

You certainly remember this thread with Russian IPTV "Tricolor" 8PSK 3/4 SR 27500 on C3 = 11263 V ?!

https://groups.io/g/MSG-1/topic/9672810#25637


Assuming -22dB crosspolarisation (as specified for the Inverto Black Ultra)
I calculated a 0.8-1.0dB SNR difference when VERTICAL is switched on and off?

At the moment I cannot lock a 11263 VERTICAL 8PSK 3/4 SR 27500 with my TBS cards. So once again:
Is your plot showing C3 = 11263 VERTICAL (red) current? If so, what is disseminated on C3 right now?

This question is important because HVS-2 will be on the same transponder frequency as BAS + HVS-1.
If it turns out that there is nothing on C3 right now (if plot not current) HVS-2 on C3 will be the next culprit to lower
our SNR for BAS + HVS-1 on C4 as this was the case with the Russian IPTV "Tricolor" in 2017 ??


Best regards,
Ernst


geojohnt@...
 

Ernst,

Your comments got me 'having a look around.'

Flysat no longer list a transmission on 11.263 GHz V.
Just EUMETCast on 11.263 GHz H.

However, my Inverto SatPal meter [which cannot decode VCS - so doesn't show SNR] shows 11.263 V is still active.

EUMETCast 11.263 H is showing a -30.2 dBm (90%) level and 11.263 V is showing a level of -35.3 dBm (81%).

Tricolor has expanded services considerably and now uses Eutelsat E 36 C [Express AMU1] which interestingly has both linear H and V and L and R (presumably) circular transmissions.

Regards,
John.

+++++++++++++++++++++++

David,

is your plot showing C3 = 11263 VERTICAL (red) current? If so, what is disseminated on transponder C3 right now?

You certainly remember this thread with Russian IPTV "Tricolor" 8PSK 3/4 SR 27500 on C3 = 11263 V ?!

https://groups.io/g/MSG-1/topic/9672810#25637


Assuming -22dB crosspolarisation (as specified for the Inverto Black Ultra)
I calculated a 0.8-1.0dB SNR difference when VERTICAL is switched on and off?

At the moment I cannot lock a 11263 VERTICAL 8PSK 3/4 SR 27500 with my TBS cards. So once again:
Is your plot showing C3 = 11263 VERTICAL (red) current? If so, what is disseminated on C3 right now?

This question is important because HVS-2 will be on the same transponder frequency as BAS + HVS-1.
If it turns out that there is nothing on C3 right now (if plot not current) HVS-2 on C3 will be the next culprit to lower
our SNR for BAS + HVS-1 on C4 as this was the case with the Russian IPTV "Tricolor" in 2017 ??


Best regards,
Ernst

++++++++++++++++++++

-----Original Message-----
From: Ernst Lobsiger via groups.io <ernst.lobsiger@...>
To: MSG-1@groups.io
Sent: Sat, 11 Sep 2021 20:43
Subject: Re: [MSG-1] EUMETCast Europe High Volume Service - Transponder migration in 2022

> The good news is that the present C3 signal (11262.5 MHz vertical) - red in the attached plot - appears stronger
> than the present C4 signal (current BAS etc.), and much stronger than the present 11387.5 MHz horizontal.ย  So
> maybe HVS-2 will enjoy a brief reprise?ย  Of course, that's one measurement at one location. Can you confirm that? > It may also be that C3 also needs to be backed off more for acceptable 16APSK performance.

> Cheers,
> David



David J Taylor GM8ARV ๐Ÿด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ณ๓ ฃ๓ ด๓ ฟ ๐Ÿ‡ช๐Ÿ‡บ
 

On 11/09/2021 20:43, Ernst Lobsiger via groups.io wrote:
David,
is your plot showing C3 = 11263 VERTICAL (red) current? If so, what is disseminated on transponder C3 right now?
You certainly remember this thread with Russian IPTV "Tricolor" 8PSK 3/4 SR 27500 on C3 = 11263 V ?!
https://groups.io/g/MSG-1/topic/9672810#25637
Assuming -22dB crosspolarisation (as specified for the Inverto Black Ultra)
I calculated a 0.8-1.0dB SNR difference when VERTICAL is switched on and off?
At the moment I cannot lock a 11263 VERTICAL 8PSK 3/4 SR 27500 with my TBS cards. So once again:
Is your plot showing C3 = 11263 VERTICAL (red) current? If so, what is disseminated on C3 right now?
This question is important because HVS-2 will be on the same transponder frequency as BAS + HVS-1.
If it turns out that there is nothing on C3 right now (if plot not current) HVS-2 on C3 will be the next culprit to lower
our SNR for BAS + HVS-1 on C4 as this was the case with the Russian IPTV "Tricolor" in 2017 ??
Best regards,
Ernst
Ernst,

The plot is from: 2021-09-09-0345-utc, so current at the time I posted. There is a key at the top: H = cyan, V = red. I run this plot twice a day, and that signal has been present since 2018-Jul-31. I haven't checked the characteristics recently, or what is being sent. I guess it's not EUMETCast.

Yes, the cross-polarisation is an issue and a cause of reduced SNR. Not affected by signal strength either. Unfortunately I don't have easy access to my antenna, so I have to trust the "satellite TV" installers!

John is probing more than I have time for right now!

Cheers,
David
--
SatSignal Software - Quality software for you
Web: https://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk
Twitter: @gm8arv


Ernst Lobsiger
 

On Sun, Sep 12, 2021 at 03:46 AM, David J Taylor GM8ARV ๐Ÿด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ณ๓ ฃ๓ ด๓ ฟ ๐Ÿ‡ช๐Ÿ‡บ wrote:
Ernst,

The plot is from: 2021-09-09-0345-utc, so current at the time I posted. There is a key at the top: H = cyan, V = red. I run this plot twice a day, and that signal has been present since 2018-Jul-31. I haven't checked the characteristics recently, or what is being sent. I guess it's not EUMETCast.
David,

there was no date on the plot, that's why I asked. Your answer is good news again: It means that we now have good SNR on C4 (H) despite C3 (V) is active on the same frequency with even higher signal strength. So there is indeed hope for similar SNR values for what we usually call T1 (BAS + HVS-1) and T2 (HVS-2) after the switch in 2022. I'm somewat confused by John's measurements though: He finds lower signal levels on C3 (-35.3dBm)ย  than C4 (-30.2dBm) while your plot shows higher signal levels for C3 than C4.

Yes, LyngSat.com and FlySat.com do not list C3 anymore and on KingOfSat.net there is still an entry for Russian IPTV "Tricolor" (the same parameters as in 2017) but I cannot lock this signal with my TBS cards anymore.

Regards,
Ernst