Move to DVB-S2


Ian Deans
 

I see that Eumetsat have updated their site re the move to DVB-S2 next summer and both the TBS USB box and PCIE card have been removed from their list of recommended receivers.
 
Not good news as it leaves the more expensive options as all that is available at the moment.
 
Regards
Ian.


David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

I see that Eumetsat have updated their site re the move to DVB-S2 next summer and both the TBS USB box and PCIE card have been removed from their list of recommended receivers.

Not good news as it leaves the more expensive options as all that is available at the moment.

Regards
Ian.
=============================================

Last time I looked all recommendations had been removed. Oh, I see what you mean. Yes, those boxes are more expensive than the low-cost DVB boxes we are using today, but €300 is still not too high for a one-off purchase. They do have the important advantage of separating the reception function from the PC, thus eliminating one source of missed data. You run just the TelliCast software on the PC, no DVB World or SkyStar software. The TelliCast software simply needs the IP address of your box on the LAN. Could well be more robust.

I'm sure we'll continue to press EUMETSAT for a lower-cost solution, but the saving in a TBS box versus a €300 Ayecka box may not be a lot. Perhaps GEO will be able to investigate bulk prices.

Cheers,
David
--
SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk


Ian Deans
 

-----Original Message-----
From: David J Taylor
Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2013 10:04 AM
To: MSG-1
Subject: Re: [MSG-1] Move to DVB-S2

I see that Eumetsat have updated their site re the move to DVB-S2 next
summer and both the TBS USB box and PCIE card have been removed from their
list of recommended receivers.

Not good news as it leaves the more expensive options as all that is
available at the moment.

Regards
Ian.
=============================================

Last time I looked all recommendations had been removed. Oh, I see what you
mean. Yes, those boxes are more expensive than the low-cost DVB boxes we
are using today, but €300 is still not too high for a one-off purchase.
They do have the important advantage of separating the reception function
from the PC, thus eliminating one source of missed data. You run just the
TelliCast software on the PC, no DVB World or SkyStar software. The
TelliCast software simply needs the IP address of your box on the LAN.
Could well be more robust.

I'm sure we'll continue to press EUMETSAT for a lower-cost solution, but the
saving in a TBS box versus a €300 Ayecka box may not be a lot. Perhaps GEO
will be able to investigate bulk prices.

Cheers,
David
==============================================

That is interesting David and I can see the advantages of the Router/LAN option.
I wonder if new Tellicast software will be required as the 2.5.17 was never released and 2.4.4a is still the official latest.

Interesting times ahead !!

Regards
Ian.


David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

That is interesting David and I can see the advantages of the Router/LAN
option.
I wonder if new Tellicast software will be required as the 2.5.17 was never
released and 2.4.4a is still the official latest.

Interesting times ahead !!

Regards
Ian.
================================

Ian,

The existing TelliCast software works over a LAN - you just put a different address into the field where we normally have 192.168.238.238 for the "on-board" DVB receiver and virtual network device it creates. Having said that, it would not surprise me if a TelliCast update were to be required just to handle the greater data rate. There are also the various documented UDP restrictions with Windows XP and later, preventing the reception of too many simultaneous streams. I don't know what the situation is with Windows-8, but my feeling is that it will be no worse than Windows-7. It /might/ be better!

Cheers,
David
--
SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk


cyril3775
 

I have the TBS 5925 which was receiving MSG until  1 Sept when I had a yellow T . My Eumetsat Licence expired on 31August and am awaiting renewal confirmation.

Have gone back to the technisat USB 2 and again Yellow T but OPS have said I should be able to receive OK.

Have been interested in VCM on Atlantic Bird 12.5 W which TBS has a test report but m have a problem with INPUT STEAM IDENTITY. They have given me a few TBS drivers  and TBS tsrecorder tool versions  to try. Waiting for TBS to sort this out.

 

Last night with the Technisat USB 2 my PINK T appeared  and again this morning for a short time but the data channels will not become active.  The previous Signal level has been approx 61 and quality  near the same level and receiving all data.   At this time S 62  Q 1 91  s/n 8.1, Q  has been 97.

 

My motorised 1 meter dish and quad LNB receives excellent TV with Humax and  even with the TSB 5925.

 

Location Cornwall .   Is it due to the present Solar Eclipse,  geomagnetic storm or the LNB.

 

Peter  G4AXC

 

 

 

 

From: MSG-1@... [mailto:MSG-1@...] On Behalf Of Ian Deans
Sent: 15 September 2013 09:19
To: MSG-1
Subject: [MSG-1] Move to DVB-S2

 

 

I see that Eumetsat have updated their site re the move to DVB-S2 next summer and both the TBS USB box and PCIE card have been removed from their list of recommended receivers.

 

Not good news as it leaves the more expensive options as all that is available at the moment.

 

Regards

Ian.


Alan Sewards
 

Hi folks,

I am building up a strong feeling that this forthcoming changeover is going to be an unmitigated shambles. From a well-used, well-tested commercial TV reception system we are moving to a new, complex system, and one that will not have been well tested and of which few examples are in the wild. I expect a lot of changes will have to be made to the (now well tested) Tellicast software, so it will be 'all change', added to which the dish will need to be recalibrated for a new satellite only one degree away from the current one. If ever there is a time to think of the indispensable engineer's motto (if it ain't broke, don't fix it), it is now!

Best regards - Alan S

On 15/09/2013 11:19 AM, Ian Deans wrote:


-----Original Message-----
From: David J Taylor
Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2013 10:04 AM
To: MSG-1
Subject: Re: [MSG-1] Move to DVB-S2

I see that Eumetsat have updated their site re the move to DVB-S2 next
summer and both the TBS USB box and PCIE card have been removed from their
list of recommended receivers.

Not good news as it leaves the more expensive options as all that is
available at the moment.

Regards
Ian.
=============================================

Last time I looked all recommendations had been removed. Oh, I see what you
mean. Yes, those boxes are more expensive than the low-cost DVB boxes we
are using today, but €300 is still not too high for a one-off purchase.
They do have the important advantage of separating the reception function
from the PC, thus eliminating one source of missed data. You run just the
TelliCast software on the PC, no DVB World or SkyStar software. The
TelliCast software simply needs the IP address of your box on the LAN.
Could well be more robust.

I'm sure we'll continue to press EUMETSAT for a lower-cost solution, but the
saving in a TBS box versus a €300 Ayecka box may not be a lot. Perhaps GEO
will be able to investigate bulk prices.

Cheers,
David
==============================================

That is interesting David and I can see the advantages of the Router/LAN
option.
I wonder if new Tellicast software will be required as the 2.5.17 was never
released and 2.4.4a is still the official latest.

Interesting times ahead !!

Regards
Ian.
SNIP >
--
Alan Sewards
émail: alan@asewards.net
web site: http://asewards.free.fr


Alan Banks <alan@...>
 

On 15/09/2013 15:54, Alan Sewards wrote:
Hi folks,

I am building up a strong feeling that this forthcoming changeover is
going to be an unmitigated shambles.
Hi Alan
That may be!
However, we look at it from the cash strapped hobbyist perspective. EUMETSAT has to provide more and more info for the professional/commercial sector. That at present we get such easy access is our bonus. I'm sure we are down in the pecking order when it comes to provision of information.
Here's hoping you are being pessimistic! :-/

Alan


geojohnt@...
 

In a message dated 16/09/2013 16:35:32 GMT Daylight Time, alan@... writes:
    I am building up a strong feeling that this forthcoming changeover is
going to be an unmitigated shambles. From a well-used, well-tested
commercial TV reception system we are moving to a new, complex system,
and one that will not have been well tested and of which few examples
are in the wild. 
If ever there is a time to think
of the indispensable engineer's motto (if it ain't broke, don't fix it),
it is now!
Alan,
 
As Alan Banks suggested we have had the good fortune of being able to access professional EUMETSAT data.
[For a long time and via cost effective domestic electronics.]
 
We should not forget that it could have been oh so different when MSG-1 was launched.
Having battled the UK Met Office (as secretary of an/other amateur group) for many months with the support of EUMETSAT I finally obtained an agreement from the Met Office for access by amateurs to direct dissemination MSG data. All we had been allowed was access to data via the Internet.
[This case was not unique to the UK Met Office, several other countries [EUMETSAT Council] had barred access to direct readout data by amateurs. I'm pleased to say they all eventually permitted access and we were granted 3 year reception licences] 
 
However, there were no viable receivers for MSG LRIT - never mind HRIT data.
Unless you had several thousand pounds in the bank and a large dish.
 
It was to our great advantage that MSG-1's power amplifiers failed and EUMETSAT had to find another means of data distribution - EUMETCast.
The rest is history as they say.
 
But DVB-S has really come to the end of its usefulness/capacity.
More and more data is added to the stream every year and we still have (hopefully) NPP imaging to be added to the stream.
And MTG is not far away requiring even more bandwidth.
Yes, things look a bit 'unclear' at the moment and I guess it's safe to say the receiver is going to cost more. 
 
EUMETSAT's job (really) is to provide data for professionals though they do appreciate there are a lot of amateur users.
With DVB-S2 there are two streams - the High Volume Service professional stream and a Basic Service similar to what we have now.
I don't think you can't mix DVB-S and DVB-S2 on one transponder and it would not be cost effective to rent two transponders.
 
At the moment it looks a little like 'watch this space?'
 
Regards,
John Tellick.
 
 
 
 
 
 


Alan Sewards
 

Alan,

I wasn't thinking of the changeover just from the viewpoint of hobbyists, who I agree should not count for much in these sorts of considerations. My comment was intended to be inclusive of all who rely on Eumetcast. I have had some experience of satellite communications, and when I see a major change of the sort proposed with so much of the important technical questions unanswered only months before the start of the service, pessimism is the only emotion possible! For example, no receiver front-end has been identified as being suitable for the service. When it is identified, tested, and approved, software will have to be written and also tested, etc. under representative conditions. This all takes time if it is to be done properly. I'm just glad I'm not the Program Manager!

Best regards - Alan S

On 15/09/2013 6:16 PM, Alan Banks wrote:
On 15/09/2013 15:54, Alan Sewards wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> I am building up a strong feeling that this forthcoming changeover is
> going to be an unmitigated shambles.
Hi Alan
That may be!
However, we look at it from the cash strapped hobbyist perspective.
EUMETSAT has to provide more and more info for the
professional/commercial sector. That at present we get such easy access
is our bonus. I'm sure we are down in the pecking order when it comes to
provision of information.
Here's hoping you are being pessimistic! :-/

Alan

--
Alan Sewards
émail: alan@asewards.net
web site: http://asewards.free.fr


David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

Alan,

I wasn't thinking of the changeover just from the viewpoint of
hobbyists, who I agree should not count for much in these sorts of
considerations. My comment was intended to be inclusive of all who rely
on Eumetcast. I have had some experience of satellite communications,
and when I see a major change of the sort proposed with so much of the
important technical questions unanswered only months before the start of
the service, pessimism is the only emotion possible! For example, no
receiver front-end has been identified as being suitable for the
service. When it is identified, tested, and approved, software will have
to be written and also tested, etc. under representative conditions.
This all takes time if it is to be done properly. I'm just glad I'm not
the Program Manager!

Best regards - Alan S
====================================

Alan,

I think you are being overly pessimistic, at least, I hope you are! EUMETSAT will only change once the new service can completely replace the existing one. They are fully aware of the importance of the EUMETCast data stream.

EUMETSAT have already identified three receivers which will work with the new service, and the TelliCast software will continue (although I don't know if a new version is required). See their Web page. It /may/ be that the present USB 2.0 interface and driver software is a little limiting for the bandwidths required, and we will move to an Ethernet rather than a USB interface, but this is by no means certain as yet. This takes a lot of load off the "receiver" PC, and could make the two-PC system obsolete.

GEO hope to be involved in the testing of the new service, and there is a changeover period of several months between August and December next year. That's more that 12 months away.

Cheers,
David
--
SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk