Red satellite icon every 20 seconds?


David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

Folks,

I am trying to help someone who is seeing a red satellite icon every 20 seconds. He has a SkyStar USB 2 receiver. The TelliCast icon goes red shortly after the satellite icon, and therefore little or no data is getting through. Signal quality and strength are in the 90+ region, and the correct "MEDIA BROADCAST" and 009.0 East orbital position are reported.

My first thought was that he had two receivers and a DC-pass splitter feeding the same LNB, but he says this is not the case, and he has only one receiver. He has changed the LNB, checked the dish alignment, and checked the connections. I suggested checking for the possibility of RF interference at either 11GHz or at 1.377GHz.

Otherwise I am stuck! Any suggestions?

Do we know whether the SkyStar USB 2 receiver works fully with EUMETCast?

Thanks,
David
--
SatSignal software - quality software written to your requirements
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk


Ian Deans
 

David there appears to be two SkyStar USB 2 boxes that may be suitable for Eumetcast although I have reservations about one of them.

On the Technisat site the SkyStar USB HD ( 4109/3734) does show on its specifications " Internet via Satellite " so should be OK, but not sure if it has been tested. On the other hand the cheaper SkyStar USB 2 has been reported as working OK but as Arne pointed out a few months ago the Technisat specification makes no mention of " Internet via satellite " which is a little strange.

It is of course possible that the box is faulty but I would suggest the person contacts Technisat with all the details of the box and the problems he is seeing. URL pasted below.

http://www.technisat.com/index5cdb.html?nav=Contact_Hotline,en,34

Regards
Ian.

-----Original Message-----
From: David J Taylor
Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 9:01 AM
To: MSG-1@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [MSG-1] Red satellite icon every 20 seconds?

Folks,

I am trying to help someone who is seeing a red satellite icon every 20
seconds. He has a SkyStar USB 2 receiver. The TelliCast icon goes red
shortly after the satellite icon, and therefore little or no data is
getting through. Signal quality and strength are in the 90+ region, and
the correct "MEDIA BROADCAST" and 009.0 East orbital position are
reported.

My first thought was that he had two receivers and a DC-pass splitter
feeding the same LNB, but he says this is not the case, and he has only
one receiver. He has changed the LNB, checked the dish alignment, and
checked the connections. I suggested checking for the possibility of RF
interference at either 11GHz or at 1.377GHz.

Otherwise I am stuck! Any suggestions?

Do we know whether the SkyStar USB 2 receiver works fully with EUMETCast?

Thanks,
David
--


David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

David there appears to be two SkyStar USB 2 boxes that may be suitable for
Eumetcast although I have reservations about one of them.

On the Technisat site the SkyStar USB HD ( 4109/3734) does show on its
specifications " Internet via Satellite " so should be OK, but not sure if
it has been tested. On the other hand the cheaper SkyStar USB 2 has been
reported as working OK but as Arne pointed out a few months ago the
Technisat specification makes no mention of " Internet via satellite " which
is a little strange.

It is of course possible that the box is faulty but I would suggest the
person contacts Technisat with all the details of the box and the problems
he is seeing. URL pasted below.

http://www.technisat.com/index5cdb.html?nav=Contact_Hotline,en,34

Regards
Ian.
Many thanks, Ian, I've passed that information on. I have seen almost exactly the same symptoms with two boxes connected via a 2 x DC-pass splitter, but there is no splitter. Could be a faulty box, I suppose.

Cheers,
David
--
SatSignal software - quality software written to your requirements
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk


David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

This is the box in question:

http://www.satsignal.eu/SkyStar_USB2.jpg

Perhaps someone could just confirm that this model works with EUMETCast?

Presumably, even if the PC had USB 1.0 ports it would not cause a 20-second periodic signal outage (although it would affect the EUMETCast data rates).

Thanks,
David
--
SatSignal software - quality software written to your requirements
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk


Ulrich G. Kliegis
 

Von: "David J Taylor" <gm8arv@yahoo.co.uk>
Datum: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 10:15:45 -0000


Presumably, even if the PC had USB 1.0 ports it would not cause a
20-second periodic signal outage (although it would affect the
EUMETCast data rates).
David,
I take it that missing PIDs can be excluded. Does the box have one LNB
socket and another feed-through? Maybe mixed up (if the feed-through has
a DC blocker built in)?

USB - no hub involved?

What does recv.log say?

I observed a tc-recv.exe re-start after the watch dog barked an alarm. The T
turns dark then too.

One thing from the very past that once cost me several days: In a hex
parameter, I had mistyped a zero (0) as an (O) (capital-o). Maybe in the PID
list or so?

Any background process running?

Disk power down due to some residual power save-setting?

(out of actual experience: SATA I/II battle? )

Does it also happen if you start with a single channel? (I ask the questions I
heard from some knowledgeable people in the past weeks... :) )

Interested parties might admire the success of cleaning up an allegedly well
working system here:

http://eumetmon.rummelecke.de/tellicast-windbuedel.html

Scroll down to the monthly graph!

A detailled summary will follow soon.

Cheers,

U.


David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

David,
I take it that missing PIDs can be excluded.
PIDs are 100h and 300h, and it does occasionally receive some HRIT data.


Does the box have one LNB
socket and another feed-through? Maybe mixed up (if the feed-through has
a DC blocker built in)?
See my photo:
http://www.satsignal.eu/SkyStar_USB2.jpg

but I don't know what's on the back. How would the box receive anything if the antenna was plugged into the feed-through. But certainly worth checking.


USB - no hub involved?
No.


What does recv.log say?
Sample output:

MSG:2011-03-26 12:03:37.453:Channel "TSL Announcement Channel": Lost message 10705618 (message lost)
MSG:2011-03-26 12:03:42.500:Disconnect from announcement channel `TSL Announcement Channel', address 224.223.222.223:4711 completed (channel lost)
MSG:2011-03-26 12:03:51.015:Reconnected to announcement channel `TSL Announcement Channel', address 224.223.222.223:4711 (channel was lost)
MSG:2011-03-26 12:03:53.312:Channel "TSL Announcement Channel": Lost message 10705969 (message lost)
MSG:2011-03-26 12:04:02.484:Channel "TSL Announcement Channel": Lost message 10706322 (message lost)
MSG:2011-03-26 12:04:02.484:Channel "TSL Announcement Channel": Lost message 10706323 (message lost)


I observed a tc-recv.exe re-start after the watch dog barked an alarm. The T
turns dark then too.

One thing from the very past that once cost me several days: In a hex
parameter, I had mistyped a zero (0) as an (O) (capital-o). Maybe in the PID
list or so?
Agreed - but they are OK otherwise nothing would be received.


Any background process running?
Nothing that pops up on Task Manager when the satellite signal is lost.


Disk power down due to some residual power save-setting?

(out of actual experience: SATA I/II battle? )
No.


Does it also happen if you start with a single channel? (I ask the questions I
heard from some knowledgeable people in the past weeks... :) )
[]
Cheers,

U.
I wondered about that as well, but it /is/ just a single EUMETCast data stream which is being received. The TelliCast side seems to work OK, it is the SkyStar USB 2 and software where the issue seems to be arising.

You have me wondering about RF interference in the PC itself, but I can't see PC oscillators being stable enough to create one beat every 20 seconds.

I wonder whether the power-supply to the USB box is faulty, and has some 22KHz component?

Cheers,
David
--
SatSignal software - quality software written to your requirements
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk


Ulrich G. Kliegis
 

Von: "David J Taylor" <gm8arv@yahoo.co.uk>
Datum: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 12:13:49 -0000
PIDs are 100h and 300h, and it does occasionally receive some HRIT
data.
Err, what does the 'h' stand for here? Hopefully not 'hex', or? :/


Does the box have one LNB
socket and another feed-through? Maybe mixed up (if the feed-through
has a DC blocker built in)?
See my photo:
http://www.satsignal.eu/SkyStar_USB2.jpg

but I don't know what's on the back. How would the box receive
anything if the antenna was plugged into the feed-through. But
certainly worth checking.
Several SatReceivers have such secondary sockets, mostly just fed-through
input sockets that serve(d) to daisy-chain signals. Taking care of voltages
and tone signals was in the responsibility of the user. As the DC-blocker is
often just a diode to prevent the LNB power to go the wrong way,
constellations are possible where this works. Mix-ups of labels like LNB In
and LNB Out add to the fun, since some designers chose this from the
perspective of the device, others from outside.

At least worth a check.

And a different simple test would be to turn the dish a tad and try to receive
HotBird 6 or some other source.

Cheers,

U.


David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

PIDs are 100h and 300h, and it does occasionally receive some HRIT
data.
Err, what does the 'h' stand for here? Hopefully not 'hex', or? :/
Yes, it's an alternative to 0x300 etc.


Several SatReceivers have such secondary sockets, mostly just fed-through
input sockets that serve(d) to daisy-chain signals. Taking care of voltages
and tone signals was in the responsibility of the user. As the DC-blocker is
often just a diode to prevent the LNB power to go the wrong way,
constellations are possible where this works. Mix-ups of labels like LNB In
and LNB Out add to the fun, since some designers chose this from the
perspective of the device, others from outside.

At least worth a check.

And a different simple test would be to turn the dish a tad and try to receive
HotBird 6 or some other source.

Cheers,

U.
Yes, I've asked that the connections be checked. Noted about the "low-band" test.


What's strange watching the problem, is that the signal strength appears to remain almost constant, and it's the signal quality indicator which flashes red with "out of lock". I wonder if it's a USB 1 issue after all?

Cheers,
David
--
SatSignal software - quality software written to your requirements
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk


Ulrich G. Kliegis
 

I wonder if it's a USB 1 issue after all?
First, a look into te BIOS setup might help. Then, one of the global check-
everything-but-the-CPU-temperature tools?
Some older models feature USB 2.0 only on a part of the ports. Trying a
different USB port is worth a try. Are there any other USB-intensive devices
like External HDDs, USB-to anything interfaces etc. at work?

Now, wait a min - signal quality is wobbly?

A retune to the EB9-transceiver has been done? Maybe some osc
illator frequency migration?

Power supply for the LNB checked? Humidity in the cable? It could partly
short the supply current... Or a little wire of the shield being too curious what
the core feels like? Mind you, it's spring time! :)

Good luck!

Cheers,U.


David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

I wonder if it's a USB 1 issue after all?
First, a look into te BIOS setup might help. Then, one of the global check-
everything-but-the-CPU-temperature tools?
Some older models feature USB 2.0 only on a part of the ports. Trying a
different USB port is worth a try. Are there any other USB-intensive devices
like External HDDs, USB-to anything interfaces etc. at work?
Thanks for the suggestions, Ulrich. A second PC has been tried with this USB box, and shows the same problem, ruling out the PC, I think.

Now, wait a min - signal quality is wobbly?

A retune to the EB9-transceiver has been done? Maybe some osc
illator frequency migration?
Perhaps, but with the Signal level and Quality well over 90%, and the SNR over 13dB?

Power supply for the LNB checked? Humidity in the cable? It could partly
short the supply current... Or a little wire of the shield being too curious what
the core feels like? Mind you, it's spring time! :)

Good luck!

Cheers,U.
I'm thinking power supply right now - a marginal level of frequency change signal (or polarisation switch, perhaps). But your other suggestions are good ones. Perhaps remove the cable from the LNB and the TechniSat box, and check it for partial shorts, if he has the equipment to do this.

Cheers,
David
--
SatSignal software - quality software written to your requirements
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk


Ulrich G. Kliegis
 

An: <MSG-1@yahoogroups.com>
Von: "David J Taylor" <gm8arv@yahoo.co.uk>
Datum: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 16:42:56 -0000
Betreff: Re: [MSG-1] Red satellite icon every 20 seconds?
Antwort an: MSG-1@yahoogroups.com

But your other suggestions are
good ones. Perhaps remove the cable from the LNB and the TechniSat
box, and check it for partial shorts, if he has the equipment to do
this.
Could also be an oxide layer on one of the cores where the plug is
supposed to make good contact.

I once had a degradation of my LNBs - after removing this oxide patch:

http://www.rummelecke.de/satstuff/oxidised_core.jpg

on the copper core, they worked as new. Probably some galvanic activity
between the socket core contact and the coax core.

A high resistance there could cause some slow oscillation: The capacitor in
the LNB's power rail load up, LNB starts to work and uses the caps' charge
up, stops working, caps load up again, and so forth...

Unexplainable are the paths of the Lord and radio frequency signals.

Cheers,
U.


David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

Could also be an oxide layer on one of the cores where the plug is
supposed to make good contact.

I once had a degradation of my LNBs - after removing this oxide patch:

http://www.rummelecke.de/satstuff/oxidised_core.jpg

on the copper core, they worked as new. Probably some galvanic activity
between the socket core contact and the coax core.

A high resistance there could cause some slow oscillation: The capacitor in
the LNB's power rail load up, LNB starts to work and uses the caps' charge
up, stops working, caps load up again, and so forth...

Unexplainable are the paths of the Lord and radio frequency signals.

Cheers,
U.
I'll wait for a report back, Ulrich. Most likely he will be contacting the supplier of the SkyStar USB 2 box.

I agree what you say is possible, with I would have thought that it would not give a regular, steady effect, especially after being unplugged and reconnected.

Cheers,
David
--
SatSignal software - quality software written to your requirements
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk


Ulrich G. Kliegis
 

especially after being unplugged and
reconnected.
The oxide layer is very hard and well bonded to the copper. Even sandpaper
does not remove it easily.

But YMMV.

Cheers,
U.


David
 

Hi Ian, David and Arne.
I actually have one of the skystar USB HD boxes sitting on my bench waiting
to be tested which I will do
after setting up the computer for the for the Amberley chalk pit museum.
If my memory serves me rightly didn't we have this problem with the blinking
red t some years ago?
Something to do with the data stream and one of the INI files?

Regards David Simmons.

-----Original Message-----
From: MSG-1@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MSG-1@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ian
Deans
Sent: 26 March 2011 09:21
To: MSG-1@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [MSG-1] Red satellite icon every 20 seconds?

David there appears to be two SkyStar USB 2 boxes that may be suitable for
Eumetcast although I have reservations about one of them.

On the Technisat site the SkyStar USB HD ( 4109/3734) does show on its
specifications " Internet via Satellite " so should be OK, but not sure if
it has been tested. On the other hand the cheaper SkyStar USB 2 has been
reported as working OK but as Arne pointed out a few months ago the
Technisat specification makes no mention of " Internet via satellite " which

is a little strange.

It is of course possible that the box is faulty but I would suggest the
person contacts Technisat with all the details of the box and the problems
he is seeing. URL pasted below.

http://www.technisat.com/index5cdb.html?nav=Contact_Hotline,en,34

Regards
Ian.

-----Original Message-----
From: David J Taylor
Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 9:01 AM
To: MSG-1@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [MSG-1] Red satellite icon every 20 seconds?

Folks,

I am trying to help someone who is seeing a red satellite icon every 20
seconds. He has a SkyStar USB 2 receiver. The TelliCast icon goes red
shortly after the satellite icon, and therefore little or no data is
getting through. Signal quality and strength are in the 90+ region, and
the correct "MEDIA BROADCAST" and 009.0 East orbital position are
reported.

My first thought was that he had two receivers and a DC-pass splitter
feeding the same LNB, but he says this is not the case, and he has only
one receiver. He has changed the LNB, checked the dish alignment, and
checked the connections. I suggested checking for the possibility of RF
interference at either 11GHz or at 1.377GHz.

Otherwise I am stuck! Any suggestions?

Do we know whether the SkyStar USB 2 receiver works fully with EUMETCast?

Thanks,
David
--



------------------------------------

Unsure what a term means? Check the Glossary at:
http://www.satsignal.eu/wxsat/glossary.htm
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Ian Deans
 

Hello David,

I will be interested to see the results of the SkyStar USB HD box as it would offer an alternative to the DVBWorld boxes. Don't get me wrong, the DVBWorld / Dexatek boxes are excellent but their software has many issues including no Windows 7 support and I would expect the Technisat software to be much superior.

I had the problem with the blinking red "T" when I set-up the Dexatek box in December 2007 with David and it turned out to be a missing PID ( 302 for DWDSAT ) I think the problem with the person that David is helping is intermittent loss of signal with his SkyStar USB box ( which is not the one you are testing David ) so the red "T" blinking is being caused by the signal loss on the box.

Regards
Ian.

-----Original Message-----
From: David Simmons
Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2011 12:27 AM
To: MSG-1@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [MSG-1] Red satellite icon every 20 seconds?

Hi Ian, David and Arne.
I actually have one of the skystar USB HD boxes sitting on my bench waiting
to be tested which I will do
after setting up the computer for the for the Amberley chalk pit museum.
If my memory serves me rightly didn't we have this problem with the blinking
red t some years ago?
Something to do with the data stream and one of the INI files?

Regards David Simmons.


David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

Hi Ian, David and Arne.
I actually have one of the skystar USB HD boxes sitting on my bench waiting
to be tested which I will do
after setting up the computer for the for the Amberley chalk pit museum.
If my memory serves me rightly didn't we have this problem with the blinking
red t some years ago?
Something to do with the data stream and one of the INI files?

Regards David Simmons.
I had forgotten that, David, but Ian is quite correct that a red T-icon could be caused by incorrect PID selection. However, in this case, it's the Signal Quality indication (and not the strength) which is flashing red, and I notice some non-zero BER values around the same time.

The 20-second period made me think of a radar scan, or some interference either at 11GHz or at the IF. I don't know how likely that is - I thought Arne might have more experience and might comment. If that is the case, perhaps a better shielded LNB or better screened cable is required. But my feeling is to try a replacement SkyStar box first.

Thanks to both for your input.

Cheers,
David
--
SatSignal software - quality software written to your requirements
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk


David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

I am trying to help someone who is seeing a red satellite icon every 20
seconds. He has a SkyStar USB 2 receiver. The TelliCast icon goes red
shortly after the satellite icon, and therefore little or no data is
getting through. Signal quality and strength are in the 90+ region, and
the correct "MEDIA BROADCAST" and 009.0 East orbital position are
reported.
Update: installing the 4.6.0 drivers seems to have cured this problem.

Cheers,
David
--
SatSignal software - quality software written to your requirements
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk


Ulrich G. Kliegis
 

An: <MSG-1@yahoogroups.com>
Von: "David J Taylor" <gm8arv@yahoo.co.uk>
Datum: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 15:38:13 +0100
Betreff: Re: [MSG-1] Red satellite icon every 20 seconds?
Antwort an: MSG-1@yahoogroups.com

Update: installing the 4.6.0 drivers seems to have cured this problem.
Another case of confirmation, that the superstition of having your drivers up-
to-date and making backups has some substance :)

Don't be fooled today!

Cheers,
U.