Topics

Transponder outage

James Brown <james@...>
 

Now green again and data flowing without the need for re-booting.

Using one Windows XP machine.

Cheers,
James
--
James Brown

Douglas Deans <douglas@...>
 

----- Original Message -----
From: "James Brown" <james@...>
To: <MSG-1@...>
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 2:25 PM
Subject: [MSG-1] Transponder outage


Now green again and data flowing without the need for re-booting.

Using one Windows XP machine.

Cheers,
James
--
James Brown
Transponder outages are normally very infrequent (cannot ever remember
seeing any on SKY) but this one is happening too often. I assume, since TV
is also out that it is Eutelsat's problem. If the Transponder is 'iffy'
they should be going on to another one.

Your first mail came in after the above one... Yahoo again !

Regards
Douglas.

James Brown <james@...>
 

Transponder outages are normally very infrequent (cannot ever remember
seeing any on SKY) but this one is happening too often. I assume, since TV
is also out that it is Eutelsat's problem. If the Transponder is 'iffy'
they should be going on to another one.
Thanks for the confirmation Douglas - it was the first time I was actually in and watching. Cheers,

James
--
James Brown

Trevor David <tdavid@...>
 

----- Original Message -----
From: James Brown
To: MSG-1@...
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 2:25 PM
Subject: [MSG-1] Transponder outage


Now green again and data flowing without the need for re-booting.

Using one Windows XP machine.

Cheers,
James
--
James Brown


I notice that a reboot is required on a great number of occation after the flow of data stops . Why is this, is it the soft ware or the sat? A reboot to my mind is a failure of the system some where. If the system is that "flacky" then when can we expect the overall system to be stable? I know we are still in the experimental stage but by now I would have thought it would be more stable

regards

trevor.



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David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

I notice that a reboot is required on a great number of occation
after the flow of data stops . Why is this, is it the soft ware or
the sat? A reboot to my mind is a failure of the system some where.
If the system is that "flacky" then when can we expect the overall
system to be stable? I know we are still in the experimental stage
but by now I would have thought it would be more stable

regards

trevor.
I am another of these people who's system requires a reboot. This
time I tried rebooting _before_ the satellite came back, so I was in
a Red Icon state, but when the transponder came back my system
started straight away. So I what can I conclude from that?
Something isn't resetting the card correctly on transponder loss?

It seems to me that it's primarily the DVB PC card/Tellique software
that is the greatest instability - and it works OK for many, but
not, people.

Cheers,
David

Alan Sewards <alan.sewards@...>
 

I am one of the lucky ones whose system coasts through the lack of
signal and continues when the signal reappears (Win XP Home, single machine
running DVB, Tellique, MDM). But my experience is mixed. I have found that
if for some reason, tqrecv stops, its game over and turning off the computer
and waiting a few seconds and then restarting is the only way to get it
going again. A warm reboot does not work. On the other hand, if tqrecv keeps
running, all is well, and things will start up again as soon as the red
world turns green. The need to power down suggest that the card is not being
reset either by software or a warm reboot, which is a hardware design fault
on the DVB card if this is so. For those who require a reboot when data
stops arriving - is tqrecv still running? If you need a reboot, is the world
icon green or red? (in other words, is data being received by the DVB
card?).
We have to remember that this card is a very inexpensive item and should
be thankful it works as well as it does. As Douglas has pointed out,
tranponders should not be going up and down like yo-yos, this is extremely
unusual behaviour. Under normal conditions the transponder should be on for
the life of the satellite, the feed might be interrupted but the transponder
should be solid. It is possible that this is the case here - it could be the
uplink that is the flaky part or even the computer that switches whatever is
being sent over the transponder (why do I say even - that is the most likely
item!). But my experience indicates that the card will survive a loss of
signal and the DVB driver software (setup4pc) seems to as well. It seems to
be the coupling of tqrecv with the card which results in problems for some
people or under certain conditions.

Regards - Alan

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Taylor" <david-taylor@...>
To: <MSG-1@...>
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 4:14 PM
Subject: [MSG-1] Re: Transponder outage


I notice that a reboot is required on a great number of occation
after the flow of data stops . Why is this, is it the soft ware or
the sat? A reboot to my mind is a failure of the system some where.
If the system is that "flacky" then when can we expect the overall
system to be stable? I know we are still in the experimental stage
but by now I would have thought it would be more stable

regards

trevor.
I am another of these people who's system requires a reboot. This
time I tried rebooting _before_ the satellite came back, so I was in
a Red Icon state, but when the transponder came back my system
started straight away. So I what can I conclude from that?
Something isn't resetting the card correctly on transponder loss?

It seems to me that it's primarily the DVB PC card/Tellique software
that is the greatest instability - and it works OK for many, but
not, people.

Cheers,
David



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David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

We have to remember that this card is a very inexpensive item
and should
be thankful it works as well as it does. As Douglas has pointed
out,
tranponders should not be going up and down like yo-yos, this is
extremely
unusual behaviour. Under normal conditions the transponder should
be on for
the life of the satellite, the feed might be interrupted but the
transponder
should be solid. It is possible that this is the case here - it
could be the
uplink that is the flaky part or even the computer that switches
whatever is
being sent over the transponder (why do I say even - that is the
most likely
item!).
Is there any significance in the fact that Eumetsat talk of "Uplink
problems" rather than transponder problems?

Is it a co-incidence that ever since the 13:00 UTC problems the
signal quality and SNR seem to be peaking to higher levels here (up
to 1.5dB) than before?

Any more questions?

Cheers,
David

Ian S Deans <ian@...>
 

I checked both recent outages on my normal television ( using motorised
dish ) and all FTA and encrypted channels were out -- no signal. In my
opinion this has to be entirely down to Eutelsat, and Eumetsat would have
had no control over this loss.

Ian

Timestep <Information@...>
 

From: Dave Cawley
Timestep Dartmouth England
e-mail Information@...
Web site http://www.Time-step.com
Tel. +44 (0)1803 833366
Fax. +44 (0)1803 839498

I think that as lot's of don't have to re-boot, it's more likely to be a
computer problem than a card problem ?

Dave

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

--- In MSG-1@..., "Ian S Deans" <ian@i...> wrote:
I checked both recent outages on my normal television ( using
motorised
dish ) and all FTA and encrypted channels were out -- no
signal. In my
opinion this has to be entirely down to Eutelsat, and Eumetsat
would have
had no control over this loss.

Ian
Thanks for that Ian, you are making good use of your facilities!
Presumably, the fault could still have been due to the uplink rather
than the satellite itself.

Cheers,
David

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

I think that as lot's of don't have to re-boot, it's more likely
to be a computer problem than a card problem ?

Dave
Were mine the only computer affected, and if this computer had shown
problems in the past, I would agree with you. As it is, I am forced
to the conclusion that the card is not 100% compatible with all
PCs. It certainly wouldn't be the first card to suffer such
problems.

Perhaps I should be convinced that the USB solution doesn't have
these difficulties!

Cheers,
David

Ian S Deans <ian@...>
 

David,

Unlikely I think to be the uplink with all other channels out. My guess is
problem with the satellite.

Regards

Ian

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Taylor" <david-taylor@...>
To: <MSG-1@...>
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 7:35 PM
Subject: [MSG-1] Re: Transponder outage

Thanks for that Ian, you are making good use of your facilities!
Presumably, the fault could still have been due to the uplink rather
than the satellite itself.

Alan Sewards <alan.sewards@...>
 

Ian,
Why? There will be one uplink transmitter for each transponder and all
the traffic for that transponder will go over it, so if the uplink goes
down, so does the lot. Sounds like finger trouble on the ground to me!

Alan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian S Deans" <ian@...>
To: <MSG-1@...>
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 10:55 PM
Subject: Re: [MSG-1] Re: Transponder outage


David,

Unlikely I think to be the uplink with all other channels out. My guess is
problem with the satellite.

Regards

Ian
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Taylor" <david-taylor@...>
To: <MSG-1@...>
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 7:35 PM
Subject: [MSG-1] Re: Transponder outage

Thanks for that Ian, you are making good use of your facilities!
Presumably, the fault could still have been due to the uplink rather
than the satellite itself.



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Dave Martin <Dave.Martin@...>
 

Alan - I'd have to beg to differ - whilst you can uplink a whole transponder's worth of content from one teleport; you can equally have many parties' traffic carried over the same transponder, uplinked from a variety of locations.

As I understand it, a basic transponder acts as a frequency-multiplexed "bent-pipe" - anything that comes in, within a particular frequency range (which can be hundreds of MHz) and has the correct polarisation, is re-broadcast back to Earth with a frequency shift applied.

Think of VSAT networks - some admittedly have more complex DAMA (demand assigned) channel allocation - but in the basic single channel per carrier you can have as thin as say 32k equivalent bandwidth, and you rent maybe tens of megs (which in itself is only a portion of a transponder) and then uplink from N terminals in the field.

So - I wouldn't rule out transponder problems - now that could be on-board (as in SSPA) but it could also be a command & control issue .....

Dave

----- Original Message -----
From: Alan Sewards
To: MSG-1@...
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 8:18 AM
Subject: Re: [MSG-1] Re: Transponder outage


Ian,
Why? There will be one uplink transmitter for each transponder and all
the traffic for that transponder will go over it, so if the uplink goes
down, so does the lot. Sounds like finger trouble on the ground to me!

Alan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian S Deans" <ian@...>
To: <MSG-1@...>
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 10:55 PM
Subject: Re: [MSG-1] Re: Transponder outage


> David,
>
> Unlikely I think to be the uplink with all other channels out. My guess is
> problem with the satellite.
>
> Regards
>
> Ian
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Taylor" <david-taylor@...>
> To: <MSG-1@...>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 7:35 PM
> Subject: [MSG-1] Re: Transponder outage
>
> > Thanks for that Ian, you are making good use of your facilities!
> > Presumably, the fault could still have been due to the uplink rather
> > than the satellite itself.
>

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a_van_belle
 

If it was a pure software matter, you should be able to get it
working again using a warm reboot.

Although these Skystar cards are cheap, they're quite sophisticated !
The receiver module does contain a front-end, IF+filter, synthesiser
and QPKS demodulator (SL1710 type).
Both Synthesiser and demodulator need to lock.
The synthesiser is quartz controlled but the demodulator is using
a "free-running" VCO that also acts as AFC.
My guess is that on some cards the demodulator may be a bit off
center. After a signal dropout the demod may not lock if signal is
weak or the frequency offset is just to much.

To get more understanding of the problem we need to know:

- Is only the older type Skystar 2 affected ? (rev 2.3)
The new version uses a different type/brand receiver module and runs
cooler.
Open the Statistics screen, the new version (2.6B) does not show a
BER reading below the SNR field.

- If you use the older card, did you take additional cooling
measures ?
A free running VCO could be offset by high temperatures.


I am planning to test the points below:

To check for good locking you can simulate a signal loss by
momentarily disconnecting the lead to the LNB. Be careful when
connecting the cable again, don't short-circuit and discharge statics
first.
If all is well, lock should be regained and Tellique will resume
within a minute.

To compensate an offset, you could try to set the transponder
frequency a few MHz's higher or lower.

Greetings,
Arne van Belle

--- In MSG-1@..., "David Taylor" <david-taylor@b...>
wrote:
I think that as lot's of don't have to re-boot, it's more likely
to be a computer problem than a card problem ?

Dave
Were mine the only computer affected, and if this computer had
shown
problems in the past, I would agree with you. As it is, I am
forced
to the conclusion that the card is not 100% compatible with all
PCs. It certainly wouldn't be the first card to suffer such
problems.

Perhaps I should be convinced that the USB solution doesn't have
these difficulties!

Cheers,
David

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

--- In MSG-1@..., "a_van_belle" <a.van.belle@h...> wrote:
If it was a pure software matter, you should be able to get it
working again using a warm reboot.
I think that's what I'm doing, Arne. I don't need to press the
reset button, simply shut down Windows 2000, go through the BIOS
startup (which does NOT show the memory check), and login to Windows
2000 when it has booted. As the Setup4PC shows a locked signal, it
is as if the Tellique software cannot survive the loss of signal.
As you knwo, I only have a Pentium III 550MHz, so perhaps there is a
critical timeout, and my PC can't respond quickly enough.

By the way, other Eutelsat customers saw the same outages - one
actually contacted me to confirm the times....

Cheers,
David