Date   
Re: SR1 Traffic dial.

Douglas Deans
 

On 27/09/2019 12:49, geojohnt via Groups.Io wrote:
All,
Just a question for SR1 users - does your traffic dial indicate a vast number of negative Mbps for a second or so every now and again?
Such as 5 minutes or so ago -1679.x Mbps or  ~ -3344.x Mbps at other times.
Regards,
John Tellick.
===================================================================

Yes John, I have occassionally seen that. I just ignore it. It does not seem to have any effect on reception. It has been about for a long time and remained across software updates.

Regards,
Douglas.

Re: SR1 Traffic dial.

geojohnt@...
 

David,

OK, I'll do that.

It's not that I sit all day watching the dial, but I notice it whilst on the adjacent day to day computer.

Another thing that happens every now and again on the SR1 Contoller is a brief, red 'lost lock' (or whatever the message is) warning.
I suspect it might be, as I'm on a flight path into LHR, a plane eclipsing the satellite.

Regards,
John.

+++++++++++++++++

In a message dated 27/09/2019 12:55:29 GMT Standard Time, gm8arv@... writes:

I don't recall seeing that, but doubtless EUMETSAT will /really/ appreciate
all the data you must be feeding back!  <G>

Re: SR1 Traffic dial.

David J Taylor
 

All,

Just a question for SR1 users - does your traffic dial indicate a vast number of negative Mbps for a second or so every now and again?
Such as 5 minutes or so ago -1679.x Mbps or ~ -3344.x Mbps at other times.

Regards,
John Tellick.
================================

John,

I don't recall seeing that, but doubtless EUMETSAT will /really/ appreciate all the data you must be feeding back! <G>

David
--
SatSignal Software - Quality software for you
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@...
Twitter: @gm8arv

SR1 Traffic dial.

geojohnt@...
 

All,

Just a question for SR1 users - does your traffic dial indicate a vast number of negative Mbps for a second or so every now and again?
Such as 5 minutes or so ago -1679.x Mbps or  ~ -3344.x Mbps at other times.

Regards,
John Tellick.

Re: HVS-1 link margin in negative territory for around 42 minutes.

David J Taylor
 

Ian,

I've never lost BS before - though this year I have had some error messages in the 'new' updated TC which I started using several months ago.

I'm on the edge of a large cloud again at the moment and SNR is dropping.
Fortunately it is the back end of a big! cloud travelling east to the north of me showing up well on Channel 12 Hi-Res 15:30.

Whatever happened to the days early last year where my basic SNR was 13.9 - 14.3 dB clear sky?

Now it is 12.4/5 - 12.9/13.00 dB.

Er, bigger dish?
Cut down the neighbours fir tree?

Regards,
John.
==============================================

"Welcome to the real world!"

David
--
SatSignal Software - Quality software for you
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@...
Twitter: @gm8arv

Re: HVS-1 link margin in negative territory for around 42 minutes.

Douglas Deans
 

John in truth none of this should be needed.
Over the years I have spent many hours fine tuning my dish for maximum reception, invested in a 1.0 metre dish to help with the poor Scottish signal (dubiously legal up here !) and due to those endeavours found that sometimes on a good clear morning I could just see an SNR into the 13s. And now over the past year one issue after another has slowly eroded signal and despite much fine tuning I can now never see an SNR starting with anything higher than 11.  
The Eumetcast service is an amazing service for amateurs and I have nothing but admiration for Eumetsat allowing amateurs to receive it, but not withstanding that it seems to me that something is amiss with the management of this 10 year old satellite. Perhaps TV and money rules. 

I for one am now thinking of finding an alternative way of getting the data.

Regards,
Douglas.

PS. apologies if my mail layout is poor but BT pop3 is again down so composing on the server which I hate !
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


On Tuesday, 24 September 2019, 16:38:16 BST, geojohnt via Groups.Io <geojohnt@...> wrote:


Ian,

I've never lost BS before - though this year I have had some error messages in the 'new' updated TC which I started using several months ago.

I'm on the edge of a large cloud again at the moment and SNR is dropping.
Fortunately it is the back end of a big! cloud travelling east to the north of me showing up well on Channel 12 Hi-Res 15:30.

Whatever happened to the days early last year where my basic SNR was 13.9 - 14.3 dB clear sky?

Now it is 12.4/5 - 12.9/13.00 dB.

Er, bigger dish?
Cut down the neighbours fir tree?

Regards,
John.

++++++++++++++++++



_._,_._,_

Re: HVS-1 link margin in negative territory for around 42 minutes.

geojohnt@...
 

Ian,

I've never lost BS before - though this year I have had some error messages in the 'new' updated TC which I started using several months ago.

I'm on the edge of a large cloud again at the moment and SNR is dropping.
Fortunately it is the back end of a big! cloud travelling east to the north of me showing up well on Channel 12 Hi-Res 15:30.

Whatever happened to the days early last year where my basic SNR was 13.9 - 14.3 dB clear sky?

Now it is 12.4/5 - 12.9/13.00 dB.

Er, bigger dish?
Cut down the neighbours fir tree?

Regards,
John.

+++++++++++++++++++++++


In a message dated 24/09/2019 16:08:27 GMT Standard Time, iandeans142@... writes:

There is no doubt about it John that the drop of 0.5/0.6 SNR in the
basic/HVS-1 signal will result in more incidences of lost HVS-1 data.

If a separate receiver is used for basic only, losses due to signal
should be few as it needs to drop to below 6 SNR before losses occur.

Re: HVS-1 link margin in negative territory for around 42 minutes.

Ian Deans
 

On 24/09/2019 15:10, geojohnt via Groups.Io wrote:
All,
Oh this is ridiculous!
I've just lost both HVS-1 - and BS this time.
A large towering cloud went over and although no rain my EUMETCast SR1 Es/No dropped to 3.1 dB at
13:34:45 with Power dropping from (the usual) -25 dBm to -30 dBm.
The outage started around 13:24 with firstly the loss of HVS-1 and then BS - red tc icons.
This time I monitored Eutelsat 10's 'eutelsat channel' 11.346 GHz H which is (actually) DVB-*S* MPEG-4 27500 3/4 on another of the LNB's quad outputs.
It's C/N dropped from the usual 15 dB to 4.8 dB and lost lock briefly at this level on the SatPal meter.
The meter appears to be very sensitive and C/N was varying considerably up and down like a yo-yo during this period.
And my location is well within the highest power contour of Eutelsat 10 A!
Regards,
John.
==========================================================================

There is no doubt about it John that the drop of 0.5/0.6 SNR in the basic/HVS-1 signal will result in more incidences of lost HVS-1 data.

If a separate receiver is used for basic only, losses due to signal should be few as it needs to drop to below 6 SNR before losses occur.

For me up here north of Dundee and out the main footprint the drop in the TP-1 signal is very unfortunate and I still wonder why it was necessary.

My TP-2 signal is now marginally higher than the TP-1 signal, which is to be expected as Eumetsat had previously indicated that the TP-2 signal would be approx. 0.4 SNR lower than TP-1.

Regards
Ian.

Re: HVS-1 link margin in negative territory for around 42 minutes.

geojohnt@...
 

All,

Oh this is ridiculous!

I've just lost both HVS-1 - and BS this time.

A large towering cloud went over and although no rain my EUMETCast SR1 Es/No dropped to 3.1 dB at
13:34:45 with Power dropping from (the usual) -25 dBm to -30 dBm.
The outage started around 13:24 with firstly the loss of HVS-1 and then BS - red tc icons.

This time I monitored Eutelsat 10's 'eutelsat channel' 11.346 GHz H which is (actually) DVB-S MPEG-4 27500 3/4 on another of the LNB's quad outputs.
It's C/N dropped from the usual 15 dB to 4.8 dB and lost lock briefly at this level on the SatPal meter.
The meter appears to be very sensitive and C/N was varying considerably up and down like a yo-yo during this period.

And my location is well within the highest power contour of Eutelsat 10 A!

Regards,
John.


++++++++++++++++++


In a message dated 24/09/2019 12:25:50 GMT Standard Time, geojohnt@... writes:

Dear All,

Sorry for the late report - just had to watch the Supreme Court news coverage.

I lost my HVS-1 channel this morning from 07:41 to 08:22 GMT owing to very low SNR caused by torrential rain at times and/or thick cloud from the storm crossing the UK at the moment.

At one point my SNR was down to 7.8 dB giving a link margin of -1.5 dB on HVS-1.

I've only been running HVS-1 since Feb/March and have not experienced this long an outage before.
Having said that, we haven't had that much rain down here in SW London this year - and not this heavy.

At times, as usual, it was not the rain causing the lowered SNR but obviously the cloud above.

My LNB rain shield kept the LNB face free of rain drops - the SNR would have been ~ 0.8 dB (even) lower without it.
1 m dish, Inverto Black Ultra LNB and SR1 receiver.

When my SNR was at its lowest my satellite Power reading was -27 dBm.
It remained at this level for quite some time.
The usual steady reading is -25 dBm.

The HVS-1 icon went red around 07:41 at SNR 9.0 dB Power -27 dBm.
I rebooted it and it sat there yellow till 08:23 when it 'connected' requiring the link margin above +1 dB, if I recall correctly.

However, the latest (3rd?) step drop in SNR has not helped matters.

This doesn't look good if we are going to get more of these 'storm events?'

SNR now at 11:25 GMT with some cloud but no rain is 12.8 dB around the (new) usual (lower) level now.

Regards,
John Tellick



HVS-1 link margin in negative territory for around 42 minutes.

geojohnt@...
 

Dear All,

Sorry for the late report - just had to watch the Supreme Court news coverage.

I lost my HVS-1 channel this morning from 07:41 to 08:22 GMT owing to very low SNR caused by torrential rain at times and/or thick cloud from the storm crossing the UK at the moment.

At one point my SNR was down to 7.8 dB giving a link margin of -1.5 dB on HVS-1.

I've only been running HVS-1 since Feb/March and have not experienced this long an outage before.
Having said that, we haven't had that much rain down here in SW London this year - and not this heavy.

At times, as usual, it was not the rain causing the lowered SNR but obviously the cloud above.

My LNB rain shield kept the LNB face free of rain drops - the SNR would have been ~ 0.8 dB (even) lower without it.
1 m dish, Inverto Black Ultra LNB and SR1 receiver.

When my SNR was at its lowest my satellite Power reading was -27 dBm.
It remained at this level for quite some time.
The usual steady reading is -25 dBm.

The HVS-1 icon went red around 07:41 at SNR 9.0 dB Power -27 dBm.
I rebooted it and it sat there yellow till 08:23 when it 'connected' requiring the link margin above +1 dB, if I recall correctly.

However, the latest (3rd?) step drop in SNR has not helped matters.

This doesn't look good if we are going to get more of these 'storm events?'

SNR now at 11:25 GMT with some cloud but no rain is 12.8 dB around the (new) usual (lower) level now.

Regards,
John Tellick



Re: Signal

David J Taylor
 

John,

this is not a drop in output power but a raise of noise. This gives us a lower signal / noise ratio.
The source of additional noise may be another transponder.

Cheers,
Thorsten
==================================

Thorsten,

I'm inclined to agree with you, and if you haven't already reported this to EUMETSAT please do so.

Cheers,
David
--
SatSignal Software - Quality software for you
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@...
Twitter: @gm8arv

Re: Signal

geojohnt@...
 

Thorsten,

OK, thanks for that.

Now, what might that be?
Are you suggesting another transponder on 10-A is/has perhaps started putting out 'spurious?'

There is already a V polarised channel on (the same frequency as EUMETCast) 11.263 GHz - Tricolor IP-TV but it's 'power' spectrum appears much lower that EUMETCast on my meter.

Eutelsat 9 B's Ku-band transmissions start at 11.722 GHz V - so that isn't a problem(?) even though they can be well received with a dish aligned on 10 east.

Eutelsat 9-A is a Ka-band satellite channels starting at 19.722 GHz L.
I see all data channels use DVB-S2 ACM.

Co-channel interference from Eutelsat 13 east or Eutelsat 7 east is hardly likely with the size of dish we are using?

Though, having said that, the reason given by EUMETSAT (and I must dig out the email to check) for an earlier step and period of reduced SNR was blamed on an adjacent satellite, I seem to recall.

Regards,
John.

++++++++++++++++++++

In a message dated 16/09/2019 16:02:43 GMT Standard Time, thorsten.miglus@... writes:

this is not a drop in output power but a raise of noise. This gives us a lower signal / noise ratio.
The source of additional noise may be another transponder.

Re: Signal

Thorsten Miglus
 

John,

this is not a drop in output power but a raise of noise. This gives us a lower signal / noise ratio.
The source of additional noise may be another transponder.

Cheers,
Thorsten


On Mon, Sep 16, 2019 at 02:07 PM, <geojohnt@...> wrote:
Well, we (I) am seeing at least a 0.5 dB drop in SNR on BS - I haven't checked HVS-1 yet, though it should be the same.
 
EUMETSAT presumably pays for a certain 'transponder signal output?'
In which case they are now owed a reduction in the cost of the hire of the transponder?

It will be interesting to see if they reflect this drop in signal power in their EUMETCast Service Availability Analysis document?
 
 
If only we could get them to - they would - switch back to Eutelsat 9 with it's 3 dB higher power output.
Minimal antenna adjustment for all - to boot!
 
10 A launched 03-04-2009 max power contour 48 dBW.
9 B launched 30-01-2016 max power contour 51 dBW
 
Regards,
John.
 

Re: Signal

geojohnt@...
 

All,

>   "Regarding your enquiry, please be informed that this change has been 
> decided by the satellite operator."

> Words fail me.... (polite words, anyway).

>Extraordinary! I can only guess that the overall footprint parameters has not decreased enough to >concern Eumetsat. 
>Very disappointing.

>I find it hard to believe that Eumetsat have no say in this, although it 
>may be that the professionals are still able to get a good signal.
>All very disappointing.

Well, we (I) am seeing at least a 0.5 dB drop in SNR on BS - I haven't checked HVS-1 yet, though it should be the same.

EUMETSAT presumably pays for a certain 'transponder signal output?'
In which case they are now owed a reduction in the cost of the hire of the transponder?

It will be interesting to see if they reflect this drop in signal power in their EUMETCast Service Availability Analysis document?


If only we could get them to - they would - switch back to Eutelsat 9 with it's 3 dB higher power output.
Minimal antenna adjustment for all - to boot!

10 A launched 03-04-2009 max power contour 48 dBW.
9 B launched 30-01-2016 max power contour 51 dBW

Regards,
John.


Re: Signal

Ian Deans
 

On 16/09/2019 11:33, David J Taylor via Groups.Io wrote:
Response from EUMETSAT:
 "Regarding your enquiry, please be informed that this change has been decided by the satellite operator."
Words fail me.... (polite words, anyway).
David
===============================================================
I find it hard to believe that Eumetsat have no say in this, although it may be that the professionals are still able to get a good signal.

Over a year ago I increased my dish size from 1 metre to 1.1 metre and was able to increase my signal from an average of about 12.4 SNR to 13.3 SNR. With a general drop over 6 months or so and this sudden drop I am back at 12.3 SNR and to be honest I would get a slightly better basic service signal on the HVS-2 transponder.

All very disappointing.

Regards
Ian.

Re: Signal

James Brown
 

Extraordinary! I can only guess that the overall footprint parameters has not decreased enough to concern Eumetsat.

Very disappointing.
James

On 16 Sep 2019, at 11:33, David J Taylor via Groups.Io <gm8arv=yahoo.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:

Response from EUMETSAT:

"Regarding your enquiry, please be informed that this change has been decided by the satellite operator."

Words fail me.... (polite words, anyway).

David
--
SatSignal Software - Quality software for you
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@...
Twitter: @gm8arv


Re: Signal

David J Taylor
 

Response from EUMETSAT:

"Regarding your enquiry, please be informed that this change has been decided by the satellite operator."

Words fail me.... (polite words, anyway).

David
--
SatSignal Software - Quality software for you
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@...
Twitter: @gm8arv

Re: Signal

James Brown
 

I was reiterating the ‘reason’ or excuse, depending on your viewpoint!
It will probably turn out to be interference rather than loss of power, though I did wonder  if it was a satellite station keeping manoeuvre until I saw David’s graphs.

Cheers,
James

On 14 Sep 2019, at 10:49, geojohnt via Groups.Io <geojohnt@...> wrote:

James,

Well, many users graphs show a distinct step down in SNR.
And indeed we have been here before - 3 times, if I recall correctly?
And although 'something' was tweaked 'their end' on every occasion, I never got back to my original SNR levels.

A couple of years ago I was getting 14.3 dB SNR during the 'diurnal max.' period with a 1 m dish and Inverto Black Ultra LNB and an SR1.
Diurnal max now is - was - around 13.4/5 dB
I'm not on 'diurnal max' at this time today and my BS SNR is currently 12.6 - 12.8 dB.

OK, I still have quite a high link margin on BS so no problem.
But I don't think this is a dish/LNB deficiency but a transmitted power 'reduction.'

There hasn't been any 'bad weather' over the uplink station yesterday and certainly not today.

?????

Regards,
John.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

In a message dated 13/09/2019 19:00:21 GMT Standard Time, satellite@... writes:


This is not good news! IIRC we have been here before and has only
resulted in LNB and dish deficiencies being identified, rather than
adjacent transponder issues. I do hope not, but am not holding my breath!

James

Re: Signal

geojohnt@...
 

All,

For what it's worth, here are my received Eutelsat 10 A signal comparisons earlier as shown by the Inverto SatPal meter.

They are EUMETCast on 11.263 GHz H.
Tricolor IPTV on 11.263 GHz V.
A 'Eutelsat channel' (DVB-S) MPEG 4 on 11.346 GHz H, which might give me an ongoing steady signal level marker?

My SR1 was showing a SNR at the time of 12.8/9 dB.
The Power reading was -25 dBm - as always.

The SatPal meter will not demodulate VCM/ACM data signals and so just gives a signal level, not SNR, link margin and mosaic - as it does with 'TV signals.'

Regards,
John.





Re: Signal

geojohnt@...
 

James,

Well, many users graphs show a distinct step down in SNR.
And indeed we have been here before - 3 times, if I recall correctly?
And although 'something' was tweaked 'their end' on every occasion, I never got back to my original SNR levels.

A couple of years ago I was getting 14.3 dB SNR during the 'diurnal max.' period with a 1 m dish and Inverto Black Ultra LNB and an SR1.
Diurnal max now is - was - around 13.4/5 dB
I'm not on 'diurnal max' at this time today and my BS SNR is currently 12.6 - 12.8 dB.

OK, I still have quite a high link margin on BS so no problem.
But I don't think this is a dish/LNB deficiency but a transmitted power 'reduction.'

There hasn't been any 'bad weather' over the uplink station yesterday and certainly not today.

?????

Regards,
John.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

In a message dated 13/09/2019 19:00:21 GMT Standard Time, satellite@... writes:


This is not good news! IIRC we have been here before and has only
resulted in LNB and dish deficiencies being identified, rather than
adjacent transponder issues. I do hope not, but am not holding my breath!

James