Date   
Re: Signal strenght reading

Luca Bertagnolio <lucaberta@...>
 

--- In MSG-1@..., "David Taylor" <david-taylor@b...>
wrote:
Do we know how the signal strength readings compare on the USB and
PCI versions? I know that when my PCI card indication drops below
50% (yellow, I thnk) the BER goes up quite noticeably and segment
drop-outs do occur.
very good point David. Next step is to plug in the SkyStar2 PCI card
I have to check if there is any major difference. I have both a 2.3
and a 2.6 version, so I can also see if there is any big difference
between the two (and I am sure there is, reading other people's
email).

I'll let you once I'll do these tests.

Bye, Luca

signal loss

Robert Moore
 

Serious loss of signal - 7 october 2003
***************************************

List members may have seen earlier exchanges on this topic on the
SatSignal list.

Today I have experienced a very large number of missed segments, very
substantially more than those recorded by David Taylor. Since installing
my equipment I have had no problems until today. Excellent reception in fact.

Setup4PC shows that my signal quality - normally steady at 69 - 70% is now
from time to time fluctuation wildly - including one instant switch from 100%
to zero percent (with consequential 'Out of Lock' message). It is regularly
dropping to low 60 per cent and sometimes to 30 - 20 - 0 per cent.

Uncorrected blocks run into thousands


I am in a very exposed position 165 metres ASL with nothing between the back of
my dish and the Mull of Galloway. Dish seems solid enough, very securely
bracketed on an end wall in the only position where my house can see MSG-1.
There are trees on the whole of my south side and I assumed these to be the
culprits. But I spent some time checking with a sighting inclinometer: MSG-1 is
at 26 degrees of elevation from here; at ground level the tree tops are not
moving above 24 degrees of elevation - and the dish is about 3 metres above
ground level.

Wind is blowing at about force 5 but gusting to 6 and occassionally 7. I was
beginning to wonder if the dish itself is actually flexing and causing a loss
of signal to the block. The wind is directly into the convex side of the dish
but I'm not sure of the aerodynamics of one of Dave Cawley's finest.

I'm getting variations to in sig qual low 60s in relatively calm patches.
50s to low 40s with quite modest gusts (surely not enough to flex a dish?)
Slightly more wind knocks me down into the red - but not consistently.
Strong gusts take the signal right down, including zero - but not every time.

Have now spent some time gazing up at the dish. Brackets are, as I said before,
'rock solid' but in the strong gusts the mounting pole and dish oscillate a
little (presumably if they did not the bracket would be torn out of the
brickwork!). Perhaps my signal loss derives entirely from the dish shaking? But
there must be millions with TV aerials - would they have problems with a
shaking dish? But I think the flexing dish hypothesis must be rejected!

The apparent randomness of the relationship between signal loss and force of
wind might be explained by the duration of the gust and the relative
oscillation frequencies of the pole and dish. Luca's comments noted (thanks
Luca) and also David's reply.

Is there anyone else out there having a similar problem?

Robert Moore



------------------------------
Professor Robert Moore
Department of Sociology, Social Policy
and Social Work Studies
The University of Liverpool
Eleanor Rathbone Building
Bedford Street South
Liverpool
L69 7ZA

tel and fax: 44 (0) 1352 714456

Re: signal loss

James Brown <james@...>
 


Is there anyone else out there having a similar problem?

Robert Moore
Sorry to say Robert the answer is no. Signal strength here is varying as it has always done between 70% and 79%. This has been one of the best days for missing segments. Lots of ch 12 late segments. I don't take a full data set - no LRIT ATM but running animatior I have had no missing portions even in the UK ch 12 region - been running since 08:30.

Hope your wind problems get resolved.
James
--
James Brown

Starting and Stoping

davidstrickland2003 <David@...>
 

David,
It would be nice to have MSG with an option so that you can stop
processing at completion of the next full set of images. Reason is
that using a dual processing system I leave the collector on all the
time but do the processing with MSG on another machine that is used
heavily for other purposes during which time I stop MSG. It is fun to
see the system struggle to process a couple of days of images whilst
more pour in - it is great software - it just hangs in there even
with sometimes 10's of Gbytes of data to process, not crashed yet! It
would be nice just to have all complete images but not essential.

Regards David

Re: Starting and Stoping

Corrado Brigante <corrado@...>
 

I agree with You David..
It would be really nice..i'm in the same conditions...
Reagrds Corrado

----- Original Message -----
From: davidstrickland2003
To: MSG-1@...
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 4:49 PM
Subject: [MSG-1] Starting and Stoping


David,
It would be nice to have MSG with an option so that you can stop
processing at completion of the next full set of images. Reason is
that using a dual processing system I leave the collector on all the
time but do the processing with MSG on another machine that is used
heavily for other purposes during which time I stop MSG. It is fun to
see the system struggle to process a couple of days of images whilst
more pour in - it is great software - it just hangs in there even
with sometimes 10's of Gbytes of data to process, not crashed yet! It
would be nice just to have all complete images but not essential.

Regards David

Re: signal loss

Alan Sewards <alan.sewards@...>
 

Hi Robert,
I have seen TV dishes around here flexing so much in the wind that the
opposite sides come within a few inches of each other! This is during the
strong gusts of the mistral (which happens to be blowing as I write). My own
dishes are largely screened from the wind, so I do not suffer from these
problems (the mistral is a W to N wind and I have a nice sheltered spot
facing south for the dishes). I suspect that this is the cause of your
problem. Not much to do but replace the dish with a stiffer one or find a
more sheltered place for it.

Best regards - Alan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Moore" <rsmoore@...>
To: <MSG-1@...>
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 3:39 PM
Subject: [MSG-1] signal loss


Serious loss of signal - 7 october 2003
***************************************

List members may have seen earlier exchanges on this topic on the
SatSignal list.

Today I have experienced a very large number of missed segments, very
substantially more than those recorded by David Taylor. Since installing
my equipment I have had no problems until today. Excellent reception in
fact.

Setup4PC shows that my signal quality - normally steady at 69 - 70% is now
from time to time fluctuation wildly - including one instant switch from
100%
to zero percent (with consequential 'Out of Lock' message). It is
regularly
dropping to low 60 per cent and sometimes to 30 - 20 - 0 per cent.

Uncorrected blocks run into thousands


I am in a very exposed position 165 metres ASL with nothing between the
back of
my dish and the Mull of Galloway. Dish seems solid enough, very securely
bracketed on an end wall in the only position where my house can see
MSG-1.
There are trees on the whole of my south side and I assumed these to be
the
culprits. But I spent some time checking with a sighting inclinometer:
MSG-1 is
at 26 degrees of elevation from here; at ground level the tree tops are
not
moving above 24 degrees of elevation - and the dish is about 3 metres
above
ground level.

Wind is blowing at about force 5 but gusting to 6 and occassionally 7. I
was
beginning to wonder if the dish itself is actually flexing and causing a
loss
of signal to the block. The wind is directly into the convex side of the
dish
but I'm not sure of the aerodynamics of one of Dave Cawley's finest.

I'm getting variations to in sig qual low 60s in relatively calm patches.
50s to low 40s with quite modest gusts (surely not enough to flex a dish?)
Slightly more wind knocks me down into the red - but not consistently.
Strong gusts take the signal right down, including zero - but not every
time.

Have now spent some time gazing up at the dish. Brackets are, as I said
before,
'rock solid' but in the strong gusts the mounting pole and dish oscillate
a
little (presumably if they did not the bracket would be torn out of the
brickwork!). Perhaps my signal loss derives entirely from the dish
shaking? But
there must be millions with TV aerials - would they have problems with a
shaking dish? But I think the flexing dish hypothesis must be rejected!

The apparent randomness of the relationship between signal loss and force
of
wind might be explained by the duration of the gust and the relative
oscillation frequencies of the pole and dish. Luca's comments noted
(thanks
Luca) and also David's reply.

Is there anyone else out there having a similar problem?

Robert Moore



------------------------------
Professor Robert Moore
Department of Sociology, Social Policy
and Social Work Studies
The University of Liverpool
Eleanor Rathbone Building
Bedford Street South
Liverpool
L69 7ZA

tel and fax: 44 (0) 1352 714456


To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
MSG-1-unsubscribe@...



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



Re: Starting and Stoping

David J Taylor
 

--- In MSG-1@..., "davidstrickland2003" <David@s...>
wrote:
David,
It would be nice to have MSG with an option so that you can
stop processing at completion of the next full set of images......

David,

As I have explained before, the way the images are currently
transmitted, one set of images may start before the last set are
complete. Particularly, channel 12 HRV may well start before the
other channels are done. So there is no simple way to pick one
particular point in time when to stop processing. If others need
this function, perhaps I will look into it further....

In any case, you can stop the processing at any time if you have
the "Persistant images" box checked. When the program is reloaded
it will restore the partially processed images, so that no data is
lost. Does that provide the function you need?

Cheers,
David

Re: signal loss

Peter Benney <tugboat@...>
 

Is there anyone else out there having a similar problem?
Robert,

I also had similar symptons caused by trees. Prior to the trees coming into leaf I had no problems and a rock steady signal from an 88cm patio mounted dish. I then noted variations in signal strength in breezy conditions. I was unable to resight the dish at ground level to clear the trees. Estimating the clear line of sight is very difficult.

You can check this now because as the sun passes through the azimuth of Hotbird (164) it is close to to the elevation of the satellite. Any shadow and you have a tree problem.

Hope the sun shines at approx 1050z

http://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/AltAz.html

Peter

Re: Starting and Stoping

davidstrickland2003 <David@...>
 

--- In MSG-1@..., "David Taylor" <david-taylor@b...>
wrote:
--- In MSG-1@..., "davidstrickland2003" <David@s...>
wrote:
David,
It would be nice to have MSG with an option so that you can
stop processing at completion of the next full set of images......

David,

As I have explained before, the way the images are currently
transmitted, one set of images may start before the last set are
complete. Particularly, channel 12 HRV may well start before the
other channels are done. So there is no simple way to pick one
particular point in time when to stop processing. If others need
this function, perhaps I will look into it further....

In any case, you can stop the processing at any time if you have
the "Persistant images" box checked. When the program is reloaded
it will restore the partially processed images, so that no data is
lost. Does that provide the function you need?

Cheers,
David
David,
I have "Persistant images" checked and it does prevent loss of
images. What I was thinking was that if one could set a UTC time and
date up to which one would process and ignore all data afterwards I
would have complete images to that set time/date. I can usually
predict that I am going to need the machine at a known time in the
future. It is not particularly important and I guess it is a
refinement few will want.

Regards David

Re: signal loss

Guy Martin <agm@...>
 

It would be interesting to repeat this when the leaves have fallen, 2 deg clearance isn't much.

Guy

----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Moore
To: MSG-1@...
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 2:39 PM
Subject: [MSG-1] signal loss


Serious loss of signal - 7 october 2003
***************************************

List members may have seen earlier exchanges on this topic on the
SatSignal list.

Today I have experienced a very large number of missed segments, very
substantially more than those recorded by David Taylor. Since installing
my equipment I have had no problems until today. Excellent reception in fact.

Setup4PC shows that my signal quality - normally steady at 69 - 70% is now
from time to time fluctuation wildly - including one instant switch from 100%
to zero percent (with consequential 'Out of Lock' message). It is regularly
dropping to low 60 per cent and sometimes to 30 - 20 - 0 per cent.

Uncorrected blocks run into thousands


I am in a very exposed position 165 metres ASL with nothing between the back of
my dish and the Mull of Galloway. Dish seems solid enough, very securely
bracketed on an end wall in the only position where my house can see MSG-1.
There are trees on the whole of my south side and I assumed these to be the
culprits. But I spent some time checking with a sighting inclinometer: MSG-1 is
at 26 degrees of elevation from here; at ground level the tree tops are not
moving above 24 degrees of elevation - and the dish is about 3 metres above
ground level.

Wind is blowing at about force 5 but gusting to 6 and occassionally 7. I was
beginning to wonder if the dish itself is actually flexing and causing a loss
of signal to the block. The wind is directly into the convex side of the dish
but I'm not sure of the aerodynamics of one of Dave Cawley's finest.

I'm getting variations to in sig qual low 60s in relatively calm patches.
50s to low 40s with quite modest gusts (surely not enough to flex a dish?)
Slightly more wind knocks me down into the red - but not consistently.
Strong gusts take the signal right down, including zero - but not every time.

Have now spent some time gazing up at the dish. Brackets are, as I said before,
'rock solid' but in the strong gusts the mounting pole and dish oscillate a
little (presumably if they did not the bracket would be torn out of the
brickwork!). Perhaps my signal loss derives entirely from the dish shaking? But
there must be millions with TV aerials - would they have problems with a
shaking dish? But I think the flexing dish hypothesis must be rejected!

The apparent randomness of the relationship between signal loss and force of
wind might be explained by the duration of the gust and the relative
oscillation frequencies of the pole and dish. Luca's comments noted (thanks
Luca) and also David's reply.

Is there anyone else out there having a similar problem?

Robert Moore



------------------------------
Professor Robert Moore
Department of Sociology, Social Policy
and Social Work Studies
The University of Liverpool
Eleanor Rathbone Building
Bedford Street South
Liverpool
L69 7ZA

tel and fax: 44 (0) 1352 714456

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ADVERTISEMENT




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----------

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Re: Starting and Stoping

Guy Martin <agm@...>
 

And start at the beginning of a picture, tick box en/disabled of course.

Guy

----- Original Message -----
From: Corrado Brigante
To: MSG-1@...
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 3:53 PM
Subject: Re: [MSG-1] Starting and Stoping


I agree with You David..
It would be really nice..i'm in the same conditions...
Reagrds Corrado
----- Original Message -----
From: davidstrickland2003
To: MSG-1@...
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 4:49 PM
Subject: [MSG-1] Starting and Stoping


David,
It would be nice to have MSG with an option so that you can stop
processing at completion of the next full set of images. Reason is
that using a dual processing system I leave the collector on all the
time but do the processing with MSG on another machine that is used
heavily for other purposes during which time I stop MSG. It is fun to
see the system struggle to process a couple of days of images whilst
more pour in - it is great software - it just hangs in there even
with sometimes 10's of Gbytes of data to process, not crashed yet! It
would be nice just to have all complete images but not essential.

Regards David






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ADVERTISEMENT




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MSG-1-unsubscribe@...



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----------

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Re: signal loss

Robert Moore
 

Guy, the clearance has been fine all through the summer with the trees in full
leaf. Having just stood and watched the dish for a while I think it must be the
wind-shake. This is creating a movement of about 2 degrees (notably in the
vertical plane) which David has suggested is enought to lose signal. The lack
of direct correlation between wind speed and signal loss is due, I think, to
different parts of the mounting having different oscillatory periods, thus when
they are in sync the whole structure moves more than when they are not.
I'm sure a structural engineer could devise a formula for it!
Anyhow - when it's calm again I will look into some further bracing of the
structure, which is a standard professionally-mounted system.
But if the trees grow much more I could be in trouble, but I think they are
fully-grown now - and probably already were early in the 20th century.
Anyhow, my experience over the past day can be part of the wisdom passed to new
entrants: Keep your dish as sheltered as possible.

Thanks for reply
Robert


Quoting Guy Martin <agm@...>:

It would be interesting to repeat this when the leaves have fallen, 2 deg
clearance isn't much.

Guy

----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Moore
To: MSG-1@...
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 2:39 PM
Subject: [MSG-1] signal loss


Serious loss of signal - 7 october 2003
***************************************

List members may have seen earlier exchanges on this topic on the
SatSignal list.

Today I have experienced a very large number of missed segments, very
substantially more than those recorded by David Taylor. Since installing
my equipment I have had no problems until today. Excellent reception in
fact.

Setup4PC shows that my signal quality - normally steady at 69 - 70% is now
from time to time fluctuation wildly - including one instant switch from
100%
to zero percent (with consequential 'Out of Lock' message). It is
regularly
dropping to low 60 per cent and sometimes to 30 - 20 - 0 per cent.

Uncorrected blocks run into thousands


I am in a very exposed position 165 metres ASL with nothing between the
back of
my dish and the Mull of Galloway. Dish seems solid enough, very securely
bracketed on an end wall in the only position where my house can see
MSG-1.
There are trees on the whole of my south side and I assumed these to be
the
culprits. But I spent some time checking with a sighting inclinometer:
MSG-1 is
at 26 degrees of elevation from here; at ground level the tree tops are
not
moving above 24 degrees of elevation - and the dish is about 3 metres
above
ground level.

Wind is blowing at about force 5 but gusting to 6 and occassionally 7. I
was
beginning to wonder if the dish itself is actually flexing and causing a
loss
of signal to the block. The wind is directly into the convex side of the
dish
but I'm not sure of the aerodynamics of one of Dave Cawley's finest.

I'm getting variations to in sig qual low 60s in relatively calm patches.
50s to low 40s with quite modest gusts (surely not enough to flex a dish?)
Slightly more wind knocks me down into the red - but not consistently.
Strong gusts take the signal right down, including zero - but not every
time.

Have now spent some time gazing up at the dish. Brackets are, as I said
before,
'rock solid' but in the strong gusts the mounting pole and dish oscillate
a
little (presumably if they did not the bracket would be torn out of the
brickwork!). Perhaps my signal loss derives entirely from the dish shaking?
But
there must be millions with TV aerials - would they have problems with a
shaking dish? But I think the flexing dish hypothesis must be rejected!

The apparent randomness of the relationship between signal loss and force
of
wind might be explained by the duration of the gust and the relative
oscillation frequencies of the pole and dish. Luca's comments noted
(thanks
Luca) and also David's reply.

Is there anyone else out there having a similar problem?

Robert Moore



------------------------------
Professor Robert Moore
Department of Sociology, Social Policy
and Social Work Studies
The University of Liverpool
Eleanor Rathbone Building
Bedford Street South
Liverpool
L69 7ZA

tel and fax: 44 (0) 1352 714456

Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT




To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
MSG-1-unsubscribe@...



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----------

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------------------------------
Professor Robert Moore
Department of Sociology, Social Policy
and Social Work Studies
The University of Liverpool
Eleanor Rathbone Building
Bedford Street South
Liverpool
L69 7ZA

tel and fax: 44 (0) 1352 714456

Re: Signal strenght reading

Luca Bertagnolio <lucaberta@...>
 

--- In MSG-1@..., "Luca Bertagnolio" <lucaberta@y...>
wrote:
very good point David. Next step is to plug in the SkyStar2 PCI
card
I have to check if there is any major difference. I have both a
2.3
and a 2.6 version, so I can also see if there is any big difference
between the two (and I am sure there is, reading other people's
email).
wow! There are major differences, no doubt about that! The signal
meter on the SkyStar2 2.3 PCI card now ranges between 40 and 49%.

With the version 2.6 card, the signal level is between 18 and 25%.

It's official, the signal level meter on the SkyStar2 is broken!

Bye, Luca

New file uploaded to MSG-1

MSG-1@...
 

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the MSG-1
group.

File : /Guide to setting up MSG-1.txt
Uploaded by : lucaberta <lucaberta@...>
Description : Brief text file describing the steps to follow to receive EUMETCast

You can access this file at the URL

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MSG-1/files/Guide%20to%20setting%20up%20MSG-1.txt

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit

http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

lucaberta <lucaberta@...>

Re: Configuration Guide

Luca Bertagnolio <lucaberta@...>
 

Luckily I found the person who volunteered his time in order to
translate the document from italian into english.

As he is not a native english speaker, please forgive him for any
error in the text.

Everybody, say: "Thanks Luca!"

:-)

Ciao, Luca

--- In MSG-1@..., "Luca Bertagnolio" <lucaberta@y...>
wrote:
True! I'll start to look around for some kind person, and if I can
find him/her, I promise you'll be the first ones to know!

:-)

Ciao, Luca

Re: Configuration Guide

David J Taylor
 

Everybody, say: "Thanks Luca!"
Grazie, Luca!

signal loss

Robert Moore
 

Evening All! The wind has abated somewhat, but more importantly the gusting is
very much less fierce now. Many fewer lost segments MSG-1, so there's a pretty
high probability that this is cause and effect.
An interesting day here in North Wales for this MSG-1 user. Thanks for all
helpful comments. If I learn anything new I will let you all know.
Best wishes
Robert



------------------------------
Professor Robert Moore

tel and fax: 44 (0) 1352 714456

Re: Starting and Stoping

Alan Sewards <alan.sewards@...>
 

I just wait a few minutes until the images from the previous run have been
processed and saved and the progress indicator on the left shows that a new
cycle has started, then I stop. When I restart, I take a chance on where we
are in a cycle but if one waits for the progress indicator to change, you
only lose the bottom segments if any. Since I started doing this, my
animations rarely show the white flash of a missed image, but I quite often
see the top of the screen moving differently from the bottom due to the
skipped segment problem!

Best regards - Alan

----- Original Message -----
From: "davidstrickland2003" <David@...>
To: <MSG-1@...>
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 5:19 PM
Subject: [MSG-1] Re: Starting and Stoping


--- In MSG-1@..., "David Taylor" <david-taylor@b...>
wrote:
--- In MSG-1@..., "davidstrickland2003" <David@s...>
wrote:
David,
It would be nice to have MSG with an option so that you can
stop processing at completion of the next full set of images......

David,

As I have explained before, the way the images are currently
transmitted, one set of images may start before the last set are
complete. Particularly, channel 12 HRV may well start before the
other channels are done. So there is no simple way to pick one
particular point in time when to stop processing. If others need
this function, perhaps I will look into it further....

In any case, you can stop the processing at any time if you have
the "Persistant images" box checked. When the program is reloaded
it will restore the partially processed images, so that no data is
lost. Does that provide the function you need?

Cheers,
David
David,
I have "Persistant images" checked and it does prevent loss of
images. What I was thinking was that if one could set a UTC time and
date up to which one would process and ignore all data afterwards I
would have complete images to that set time/date. I can usually
predict that I am going to need the machine at a known time in the
future. It is not particularly important and I guess it is a
refinement few will want.

Regards David



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Late segments

David J Taylor
 

Folks,

I have just had a note from Eumetsat that states: "We are working
constantly to improve the data delivery" and that they are finding
our reports helpful. So please be patient while this problem is
sorted out. I also have an idea for making the MSG Data Manager
more resilient to the problem.

Cheers,
David

Late segments

David J Taylor
 

I am working on an update of the MSG Data Manager to prevent late
segments causing problems in the images. However, this version
prevents me from knowing if there were any late segments, i.e. it
hides them and cannot log them. Consequently, I would be very
grateful of any reports of late segments after 11:00 UTC today.

Thanks,
David