Date   

Re: LNB to receive hvs1 and hvs2 simultaneously and SR1 enable 2nd RX input

geojohnt@...
 

Mario,

>I've read the signal from consol ,with more attention:
>My es/no , with cloud, is 7.2 db
>Demodulation link margin is -2.4 db
>In my option, like from your suspect, I think that HVS1, with these low signal, is very
>very hard to decode.

Just to say that I got out an old 85 cm dish and Inverto Black Ultra LNB that I used many years ago for EUMETCast  and found that my SR1 readings under clear sky conditions using this dish, which might not have been accurately aligned  were:

BS
SNR 10.9 - 11.00 dB
Link margin 5.0 - 5.1 dB

HVS-1
SNR 10.9 - 11.00
Link margin 1.6 - 1.7 dB.

That was using around an 8 m long cable run.

I agree with David to be cautious about some manufacturers LNB technical figures - especially noise.
However, Inverto publish very comprehensive figures for all technical aspects of their LNB's on their website.
And the Black Ultra range have increased gain compared to their other ranges.

Regards,
John.






Re: LNB to receive hvs1 and hvs2 simultaneously and SR1 enable 2nd RX input

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

Ferdinand ,David
I thank you for the exhaustive details.
The replacement of the LNB is due to the fact that it is very old (almost 15 years, bought to use on HB13) and the cost is quite affordable to try to gain a few dB.
Then in the future (at the end of housework ... David!) I decided to commit to receiving HVS from a receiver that would certainly perform better than the current one.
Have a nice day !!

Mario
===========================

Mario,

OK, and older LNB may well be worth replacing. I don't think Arne has carried out further tests than those where he recommended the Inverto Black Ultra. The Ultra has a higher output, so allows for more cable loss and splitters etc. I ended up with a different make, and four outputs rather than two, but I would recommend going for at least twin output.

Enjoy all the alignment!

Cheers,
David
--
SatSignal Software - Quality software for you
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@...
Twitter: @gm8arv


Re: LNB to receive hvs1 and hvs2 simultaneously and SR1 enable 2nd RX input

Mario Brustia
 

Ferdinand ,David
I thank you for the exhaustive details.
The replacement of the LNB is due to the fact that it is very old (almost 15 years, bought to use on HB13) and the cost is quite affordable to try to gain a few dB.
Then in the future (at the end of
housework ... David!) I decided to commit to receiving HVS from a receiver that would certainly perform better than the current one.
Have a nice day !!

Mario


Live lightning maps.

geojohnt@...
 

 All,

In case you are not aware of this, live lightning maps of Europe and with world coverage.:

http://en.blitzortung.org/live_lightning_maps.php?map=10

Regards,
John Tellick.


Re: LNB to receive hvs1 and hvs2 simultaneously and SR1 enable 2nd RX input

Ferdinand Valk
 

Mario,

 

Correct, although the SR-1 has two receivers (a batch of SR-1 provided via GEO had only 1 in order to save costs), only one can be used. Amongst others the RX transport filters (8 in total) are shared between receiver 1 and 2, limiting the use of the second receiver for Eumetcast purposes.

So you either use two separate receiver units if you want to get both T1 and T2 or alternatively you can opt for the TBS 6903 (or similar), which does have two fully functional inputs available. Having an LNB with multiple outputs is certainly a good way to go, but you could also use a splitter as David does.

 

Cheers,

Ferdinand

 

From: MSG-1@groups.io On Behalf Of Mario Brustia
Sent: Friday, 16 August, 2019 08:14
To: MSG-1@groups.io
Subject: [MSG-1] LNB to receive hvs1 and hvs2 simultaneously and SR1 enable 2nd RX input

 

good morning to all.
I have read that to receive the 3 eumetsat services at the same time it is necessary to have at least two receivers: one for BAS and HVS1 tuned to transponder 1 and one for HVS2 tuned to the transponder 2.
I understand that the SR1 receiver purchased through GEO, at the time of the transition from DVB to DVS2 it does not have the second input enabled and therefore, as a second receiver, a second physical RX would be needed.
So I ask myself two questions:
FIRST: is it possible to enable the second RX on the SR1?in case...how?
SECOND : I read that a valid LNB is the INVERTO ULTRA LNB and I was wondering if, replacing my old LNB with only one output with the new LNB with two outputs, I could receive both transponders at the same time.
Thanks to anyone for the support

Mario


Re: LNB to receive hvs1 and hvs2 simultaneously and SR1 enable 2nd RX input

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

good morning to all.
I have read that to receive the 3 eumetsat services at the same time it is necessary to have at least two receivers: one for BAS and HVS1 tuned to transponder 1 and one for HVS2 tuned to the transponder 2.
I understand that the SR1 receiver purchased through GEO, at the time of the transition from DVB to DVS2 it does not have the second input enabled and therefore, as a second receiver, a second physical RX would be needed.
So I ask myself two questions:
FIRST: is it possible to enable the second RX on the SR1?in case...how?
SECOND : I read that a valid LNB is the INVERTO ULTRA LNB and I was wondering if, replacing my old LNB with only one output with the new LNB with two outputs, I could receive both transponders at the same time.
Thanks to anyone for the support

Mario
==================================

Mario,

FIRST: Yes, you can enable the second input, but it doesn't help because you only get the required number of PIDs and enough bandwidth with the single input arrangement. You would need a second Ayecka (or other) receiver to get HVS-2.

For the second receiver you could get a TBS 5925/5927 USB receiver for example, perhaps even a second-hand one, and use that for the HVS-2 transmission, and feed it into your PC with a USB connection, or a TBS6903 PCIe card which has two tuners already. Perhaps use the TBS6903 card for HVS-1 and HVS-2, keeping your Ayecka configured for BS alone (which makes it a more reliable service, since low HVS-1 signals won't then affect the BS data).

SECOND: The only reason to replace the LNB would be to get improved performance. Perhaps a more modern LNB would have slightly better performance, but don't believe all the specifications! Because the two transponders have the same polarisation, and are in the same frequency band, the signal from both transponders will be present in the single cable you already have - but on slightly different frequencies. Therefore you can use a splitter to feed two receivers, rather than needing a two output LNB. What I do find useful is to have the second LNB output available for monitoring purposes, using a Satellite TV receiver or whatever, for checking signal strengths on adjacent channels or signals with the other polarisation. I have mine connected to a TBS5925 and run the CrazyCat scanning software to see the spectrum content for both polarisations:

https://www.satsignal.eu/wxsat/dvb-s2/T1-T2.html
https://www.satsignal.eu/wxsat/dvb-s2/T1-T2.html#h+v

Cheers,
David
--
SatSignal Software - Quality software for you
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@...
Twitter: @gm8arv


LNB to receive hvs1 and hvs2 simultaneously and SR1 enable 2nd RX input

Mario Brustia
 

good morning to all.
I have read that to receive the 3 eumetsat services at the same time it is necessary to have at least two receivers: one for BAS and HVS1 tuned to transponder 1 and one for HVS2 tuned to the transponder 2.
I understand that the SR1 receiver purchased
through GEO, at the time of the transition from DVB to DVS2 it does not have the second input enabled and therefore, as a second receiver, a second physical RX would be needed.
So I ask myself two questions:
FIRST: is it possible to enable the second RX on the SR1?in case...how?
SECOND : I read that a valid LNB is the INVERTO ULTRA LNB and I was wondering if, replacing my old LNB with only one output with the new LNB with two outputs, I could receive both transponders at the same time.
Thanks to anyone for the support


Mario


Re: changes on SR1 to receive HVS1 and BASIC at the same time ... if possible, of course!

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

David..thanks for the encouragement !!
Now, this evening afther "concrete"....I'll install the bas only CFG, like from your suggest!
Mi dish is an old 85cm and when I transferred the whole satellite system to the new house, I spent a lot of time on the roof in the hope of getting a good alignment.
Perhaps it is also a bit "dated" LNB ... but for now I will stop here.
I came back to the bas system.
First I finish the house, first I come to live, first I rest and before .... I go back to follow my passions!
For now I have only transferred the computer part ... the rest still remains! Good orbits!
Mario
==============================

Fine, Mario - there's a lot of stuff on the Basic Service to enjoy!

Ciao,
David
--
SatSignal Software - Quality software for you
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@...
Twitter: @gm8arv


Re: changes on SR1 to receive HVS1 and BASIC at the same time ... if possible, of course!

Mario Brustia
 

David..thanks for the encouragement !!
Now, this evening afther "concrete"....I'll install the bas only CFG, like from your suggest!
Mi dish is an old 85cm and w
hen I transferred the whole satellite system to the new house, I spent a lot of time on the roof in the hope of getting a good alignment.
Perhaps it is also a bit "dated" LNB ... but for now I will stop here.
I came back to the bas system.
First I finish the house, first I come to live, first I rest and before .... I go back to follow my passions!
For now I have only transferred the computer part ... the rest still remains! Good orbits!
Mario


Re: changes on SR1 to receive HVS1 and BASIC at the same time ... if possible, of course!

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

Ciao David....hard day...today!!!! 1st floor done.... tomorrow the second one!!
For today I've stopped the "concrete" job and now,start the "electronic" job... :))

Anyway....
I've read the signal from consol ,with more attention:
My es/no , with cloud, is 7.2 db
Demodulation link margin is -2.4 db
In my option, like from your suspect, I think that HVS1, with these low signal, is very very hard to decode.
Later, finances permitting, I will think of an upgrade of the satellite dish.
Unfortunately, finances are now spent on household expenses
Thanks anyway for the support!

Ps ...I've installed the "BS & HVS-1, connected" script...

Have a nice day!!
Ciao

Mario
====================================

Mario,

I bet the house will look very good when you are finished, but the work must be tiring!

Thanks for that - you've explained the reason for HVS-1 failing. Approximately, the link margin is about 6 dB less than the Es/No for the basic service, so in the cloudy conditions you have a margin of just 1.2 dB. So the signal only needs to be 1.2 dB lower, and you will lose the basic service. For the high-volume service the difference is about 9.3 dB, so the signal is already 2.1 dB below the threshold - as you have indicated.

Until you get a better signal, just install the BS-alone script, as you will lose BS data by trying to receive the HVS-1.

But what size if dish do you have? Perhaps it just needs aligning perfectly to give you a little more signal.

Ciao,
David
--
SatSignal Software - Quality software for you
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@...
Twitter: @gm8arv


Re: changes on SR1 to receive HVS1 and BASIC at the same time ... if possible, of course!

Mario Brustia
 

Ciao David....hard day...today!!!! 1st floor done.... tomorrow the second one!!
For today I've stopped the "concrete" job and now,start the "electronic" job...   :))

Anyway....
I've read the signal from consol ,with more attention:
My es/no , with cloud, is 7.2 db
Demodulation link margin is -2.4 db
In my option, like from your suspect, I think that HVS1, with these low signal, is very very hard to decode.
Later, finances permitting, I will think of an upgrade of the satellite dish.
Unfortunately, finances are now spent on household expenses

Thanks anyway for the support!

Ps ...I've installed the "
BS & HVS-1, connected" script...

Have a nice day!!
Ciao

Mario


Re: changes on SR1 to receive HVS1 and BASIC at the same time ... if possible, of course!

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

Hi David, this morning I'm tired, I'm changing the floors of the house and so I don't want to think ... I asked google translator for help.

I tried to read mail on my smartphone but I realized that there are many problems writing in English with the automatic corrector in Italian that changes the words as and when it wants :)
The scripts you were talking about had already loaded them when, in your first replay, you advised me to upgrade the sr1.
I had already tried them, from the first to the fourth (not really understanding the real difference I had made tests with everyone )
Before continuing with the posts, I tried but without any concrete results: the BAS always worked but nothing to do for the hvs1.
I also tried to lower the signal threshold levels.
With the 85cm dish I don't expect to have a perfect stream in hvs1, but some data, even if full of errors, just to understand that it works, I think I should receive it.

There is a strange thing when opening the shell of the two systems: in hvs1 all the data are not present (see attachments).

Of the 4 scripts, present on eumetsat, excluding those destined for africa, which of the 4 is the correct one to have hvs1 and bas, I finally loaded the second one (/ SR1CFG_DVBS2_ACTIVE_CONNECTED_MNGT-MLCST-ON_HVS-ENBLD_THRHLDS06-07_v255 /)?
There is something that escapes me but I can't understand what it is....

Grazie per il supporto!!

HAve a nice day!

Mario
=============================================

Mario, you are working very hard!

This is my understanding of the four scripts. There are two choices:

1 - whether the data and management ports on the SR1 are CONNECTED (so that data comes out of the Management port), or ISOLATED, so that data comes from the Traffic port, and you need two Ethernet leads to connect the box to your system, with the data lead going to a PC, and the management lead going to your "house" LAN.

2 - Whether you want the Basic Service alone, or both Basic and high Volume 1 services.

BS alone, connected:
SR1CFG_DVBS2_ACTIVE_CONNECTED_MNGT-MLCST-ON_HVS-DSBLD_THRHLDS-06-03_v255

BS & HVS-1, connected:
SR1CFG_DVBS2_ACTIVE_CONNECTED_MNGT-MLCST-ON_HVS-ENBLD_THRHLDS06-07_v255

BS alone, isolated
SR1CFG_DVBS2_ACTIVE_ISOLATED_MNGT-MLCST-OFF_HVS-DSBLD_THRHLDS-06-03_v255

BS & HVS-1, isolated
SR1CFG_DVBS2_ACTIVE_ISOLATED_MNGT-MLCST-OFF_HVS-ENBLD_THRHLDS06-07_v255

Do check the Es/No of the SR1 - it should be at least 11 dB for reasonable HVS-1 reception, ideally 13 dB or better.

You should also check the SR1 version numbers - here I see:

Software: 1.05b264
FPGA: 2.02b922
Hardware: 2.00 or 2.05 or 2.10 (on the three SR1s I have here)

I don't know, but I wonder whether the lack of licence information for HVS-1 simply suggests that you don't have a good enough signal. Don't forget that every aspect of dish alignment is critical for the best possible SNR or Es/No:

- elevation
- azimuth
- LNB skew (rotate the LNB)
- LNB focus (move the LNB nearer to or away from the dish)

Comparing with the stations here:
https://www.satsignal.eu/mrtg/performance_eumetcast-europe_link_margin.php

Trieste has a 125 cm dish and gets 4 dB link margin, your 85 cm will be ~3 dB down so quite marginal for HVS-1.

Ciao,
David
--
SatSignal Software - Quality software for you
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@...
Twitter: @gm8arv


Re: cloud data

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

Thanks David, that was it. Trying to be neat and tidy I was sending my Data_Channel_3 data to a folder called ....\MSG-HRIT now I have altered that to EUMETSAT_Data_Channel_3 and pointed MDM to it. Have both HRIT and MPEF.

Robert
=============================

Excellent, Robert. Thanks for reporting back.

Cheers,
David
--
SatSignal Software - Quality software for you
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@...
Twitter: @gm8arv


Re: changes on SR1 to receive HVS1 and BASIC at the same time ... if possible, of course!

Mario Brustia
 


Hi David, this morning I'm tired, I'm changing the floors of the house and so I don't want to think ... I asked google translator for help.

 I tried to read mail on my smartphone but I realized that there are many problems writing in English with the automatic corrector in Italian that changes the words as and when it wants :)
The scripts you were talking about had already loaded them when, in your first replay, you advised me to upgrade the sr1.
I had already tried them, from the first to the fourth (not really understanding the real difference I had made tests with everyone
)
Before continuing with the posts, I tried but without any concrete results: the BAS always worked but nothing to do for the hvs1.
I also tried to lower the signal threshold levels.
With the 85cm dish I don't expect to have a perfect stream in hvs1, but some data, even if full of errors, just to understand that it works, I think I should receive it.
There is a strange thing when opening the shell of the two systems: in hvs1 all the data are not present (see attachments).

Of the 4 scripts, present on eumetsat, excluding those destined for africa, which of the 4 is the correct one to have hvs1 and bas, I finally loaded the second one (/ SR1CFG_DVBS2_ACTIVE_CONNECTED_MNGT-MLCST-ON_HVS-ENBLD_THRHLDS06-07_v255 /)?
There is something that escapes me but I can't understand what it is....

Grazie per il supporto!!

HAve a nice day!

Mario


Re: cloud data

Robert Moore
 

Thanks David, that was it. Trying to be neat and tidy I was sending my Data_Channel_3 data to a folder called ....\MSG-HRIT now I have altered that to EUMETSAT_Data_Channel_3 and pointed MDM to it. Have both HRIT and MPEF.

Robert

-----Original Message-----
From: MSG-1@groups.io <MSG-1@groups.io> On Behalf Of David J Taylor via Groups.Io
Sent: 10 August 2019 15:20
To: MSG-1@groups.io
Subject: Re: [MSG-1] cloud data

From: Robert Moore

Yes, to both your questions David. The MPEF files are accumulating in the
Channel_3 folder in the receiver PC but MDM appears not to be processing them. Have I missed a setting somewhere?

Robert
===================================

Robert,

As the settings are correct, I can only wonder about directory structure.

If the MSG Data Manager has the TelliCast received files location as:

E:\EUMETCast\received\

The channel 3 data should be sent to either:

E:\EUMETCast\received\EUMETSAT_Data_Channel_3

or:

E:\EUMETCast\received\Data Channel 3

Note the spaces in the second directory name.

Cheers,
David
--
SatSignal Software - Quality software for you
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@...
Twitter: @gm8arv


Re: cloud data

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

From: Robert Moore

Yes, to both your questions David. The MPEF files are accumulating in the Channel_3 folder in the receiver PC but MDM appears not to be processing them. Have I missed a setting somewhere?

Robert
===================================

Robert,

As the settings are correct, I can only wonder about directory structure.

If the MSG Data Manager has the TelliCast received files location as:

E:\EUMETCast\received\

The channel 3 data should be sent to either:

E:\EUMETCast\received\EUMETSAT_Data_Channel_3

or:

E:\EUMETCast\received\Data Channel 3

Note the spaces in the second directory name.

Cheers,
David
--
SatSignal Software - Quality software for you
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@...
Twitter: @gm8arv


Re: cloud data

Robert Moore
 

Yes, to both your questions David. The MPEF files are accumulating in the Channel_3 folder in the receiver PC but MDM appears not to be processing them. Have I missed a setting somewhere?

Robert

-----Original Message-----
From: MSG-1@groups.io <MSG-1@groups.io> On Behalf Of David J Taylor via Groups.Io
Sent: 10 August 2019 08:17
To: MSG-1@groups.io
Subject: Re: [MSG-1] cloud data

From: Robert Moore

It???s taken me a while to get back to ???normal service??? after various changes.
I???m still without CLA and CTH data (which I think are HIRS). Thought they were (previously perhaps) processed by MDM. Anyhow I???ve been through EUMETCast documents to try to re-establish this data stream and can only find METOP HIRS, which presumably require METOP Manager?

Robert
======================================

Robert,

I'm seeing plenty of zero-degree CTH and CLAI data here, processed by the MSG Data Manager:

09/08/2019 23:00 804,416 201908092200-cth.grb
09/08/2019 23:15 802,485 201908092215-cth.grb
09/08/2019 23:30 800,673 201908092230-cth.grb
09/08/2019 23:45 799,792 201908092245-cth.grb
10/08/2019 00:00 798,101 201908092300-cth.grb
10/08/2019 00:15 796,857 201908092315-cth.grb
10/08/2019 00:30 797,105 201908092330-cth.grb
10/08/2019 00:45 794,031 201908092345-cth.grb
96 File(s) 79,111,639 bytes
0 Dir(s) 878,370,590,720 bytes free


09/08/2019 03:45 1,267,366 201908090245-clai.grb
09/08/2019 06:45 1,267,361 201908090545-clai.grb
09/08/2019 09:45 1,267,363 201908090845-clai.grb
09/08/2019 12:45 1,267,365 201908091145-clai.grb
09/08/2019 15:45 1,267,363 201908091445-clai.grb
09/08/2019 18:45 1,267,362 201908091745-clai.grb
09/08/2019 21:45 1,267,363 201908092045-clai.grb
10/08/2019 00:45 1,267,362 201908092345-clai.grb
8 File(s) 10,138,905 bytes
0 Dir(s) 879,009,509,376 bytes free

In Setup, Channel Selection, MPEF, do you have Process CTH and CLAI checked?
I guess you are processing "EUMETSAT Data Channel 3" in your channels file?

Cheers,
David
--
SatSignal Software - Quality software for you
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@...
Twitter: @gm8arv


Re: cloud data

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

From: Robert Moore

It???s taken me a while to get back to ???normal service??? after various changes. I???m still without CLA and CTH data (which I think are HIRS). Thought they were (previously perhaps) processed by MDM. Anyhow I???ve been through EUMETCast documents to try to re-establish this data stream and can only find METOP HIRS, which presumably require METOP Manager?

Robert
======================================

Robert,

I'm seeing plenty of zero-degree CTH and CLAI data here, processed by the MSG Data Manager:

09/08/2019 23:00 804,416 201908092200-cth.grb
09/08/2019 23:15 802,485 201908092215-cth.grb
09/08/2019 23:30 800,673 201908092230-cth.grb
09/08/2019 23:45 799,792 201908092245-cth.grb
10/08/2019 00:00 798,101 201908092300-cth.grb
10/08/2019 00:15 796,857 201908092315-cth.grb
10/08/2019 00:30 797,105 201908092330-cth.grb
10/08/2019 00:45 794,031 201908092345-cth.grb
96 File(s) 79,111,639 bytes
0 Dir(s) 878,370,590,720 bytes free


09/08/2019 03:45 1,267,366 201908090245-clai.grb
09/08/2019 06:45 1,267,361 201908090545-clai.grb
09/08/2019 09:45 1,267,363 201908090845-clai.grb
09/08/2019 12:45 1,267,365 201908091145-clai.grb
09/08/2019 15:45 1,267,363 201908091445-clai.grb
09/08/2019 18:45 1,267,362 201908091745-clai.grb
09/08/2019 21:45 1,267,363 201908092045-clai.grb
10/08/2019 00:45 1,267,362 201908092345-clai.grb
8 File(s) 10,138,905 bytes
0 Dir(s) 879,009,509,376 bytes free

In Setup, Channel Selection, MPEF, do you have Process CTH and CLAI checked? I guess you are processing "EUMETSAT Data Channel 3" in your channels file?

Cheers,
David
--
SatSignal Software - Quality software for you
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@...
Twitter: @gm8arv


Re: changes on SR1 to receive HVS1 and BASIC at the same time ... if possible, of course!

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

Mario,

Your messages from your phone come across here with no text - just blank messages. Could you please ensure there is plain text content in addition to the (unnecessary) HTML?

Thanks,
David
--
SatSignal Software - Quality software for you
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@...
Twitter: @gm8arv


cloud data

Robert Moore
 

It’s taken me a while to get back to ‘normal service’ after various changes. I’m still without CLA and CTH data (which I think are HIRS). Thought they were (previously perhaps) processed by MDM. Anyhow I’ve been through EUMETCast documents to try  to re-establish this data stream and can only find METOP HIRS, which presumably require METOP Manager?

 

 

Robert

 

 

 

 

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