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Re: Re help with Eitelsat 10

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

On 30/05/2021 14:00, diogenes1 via groups.io wrote:
Hello David, between Ernst and yourself it is now clear to me. I am ashamed to say that as a Radio Amateur I should have known this but time and memory are great levellers.
Regards, Peter
Peter,

I find these days I am more willing to say "I don't understand" or to ask for an explanation. I often hear other say: "I'm glad you asked that..."

David,
GM8ARV

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Re: Re help with Eitelsat 10

Ernst Lobsiger
 

On Sun, May 30, 2021 at 05:47 AM, <diogenes1@...> wrote:
Ernst, I now get it, all I need to do is subtract the intermediate frequency from the dish received frequency. Thank you, I am still trying to make sense of things as I zimmer into my eighties.
Peter,

no problem but it's the LO frequency that you have to subtract from the frequency that comes from the satellite down to your dish. The result is the downconverted Intermediate Frequency (IF). The IF comes to your receiver via coax cable and F-plugs. The LO frequency is generated in your LNB by a device called Local Oscillator (probably quarz stabilized). Yes, we are all getting older, I had to find my cheat sheet first and David also just had his "s/1.3/1.2/"   (= replace 1.3 by 1.2).

Ernst


Re: Re help with Eitelsat 10

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

On 30/05/2021 13:46, David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴 🇪🇺 via groups.io wrote:
The LO is 9750 Mhz, so the IF is 10950 - 9750 => 1.3 GHz. The LO is on
the low side.
For those following this: s/1.3/1.2/

David
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Re: Re help with Eitelsat 10

diogenes1@...
 

Hello David, between Ernst and yourself it is now clear to me. I am ashamed to say that as a Radio Amateur I should have known this but time and memory are great levellers.

Regards, Peter


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30 May 2021, 13:46 by david-taylor@...:

On 30/05/2021 12:51, diogenes1 via groups.io wrote:
Hello all and particularly David. My LNB is an Inverto with an input, I think, of 10.7-11.7GHz giving an output of 0.950 - 1.950GHz. If the beacon is transmitting on 10.95GHz why is its output frequency 1.2GHz and not a lower frequency? I can only guess that the relationship between the output and input frequencies is not linear but follows some peculiar curve - just a guess.

Regards, Peter

Peter,

The LO is 9750 Mhz, so the IF is 10950 - 9750 => 1.3 GHz. The LO is on the low side.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-noise_block_downconverter#Universal_LNB_(%22Astra%22_LNB)

Also, taking your values:
if 10700 in gives 950 MHz out
then 10950 (i.e. 10700 + 250) gives 1200 MHz (i.e.950 +250)

Cheers,
David
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Web: https://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@...
Twitter: @gm8arv





Re: Re help with Eitelsat 10

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

On 30/05/2021 12:51, diogenes1 via groups.io wrote:
Hello all and particularly David. My LNB is an Inverto with an input, I think, of 10.7-11.7GHz giving an output of 0.950 - 1.950GHz. If the beacon is transmitting on 10.95GHz why is its output frequency 1.2GHz and not a lower frequency? I can only guess that the relationship between the output and input frequencies is not linear but follows some peculiar curve - just a guess.
Regards, Peter
Peter,

The LO is 9750 Mhz, so the IF is 10950 - 9750 => 1.3 GHz. The LO is on the low side.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-noise_block_downconverter#Universal_LNB_(%22Astra%22_LNB)

Also, taking your values:
if 10700 in gives 950 MHz out
then 10950 (i.e. 10700 + 250) gives 1200 MHz (i.e.950 +250)

Cheers,
David
--
SatSignal Software - Quality software for you
Web: https://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk
Twitter: @gm8arv


Re: Re help with Eitelsat 10

diogenes1@...
 

Ernst, I now get it, all I need to do is subtract the intermediate frequency from the dish received frequency. Thank you, I am still trying to make sense of things as I zimmer into my eighties.

Regards, Peter


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30 May 2021, 13:38 by ernst.lobsiger@...:

On Sun, May 30, 2021 at 05:31 AM, <diogenes1@...> wrote:

In other words how can you calculate the frequency output of the LNB from the input frequency received at the dish, which is certainly not a linear relationship.
Peter,

that's exactly what I explained. You get:   IF = 10.95GHZ - 9.75GHz = 1.2GHz

Ernst


Re: Re help with Eitelsat 10

Ernst Lobsiger
 

On Sun, May 30, 2021 at 05:31 AM, <diogenes1@...> wrote:
In other words how can you calculate the frequency output of the LNB from the input frequency received at the dish, which is certainly not a linear relationship.
Peter,

that's exactly what I explained. You get:   IF = 10.95GHZ - 9.75GHz = 1.2GHz

Ernst


Re: Re help with Eitelsat 10

diogenes1@...
 

Thank you Ernst, I was more or less aware of that but I was trying to get my head around why the beacon frequency of 10.95GHz comes out as the frequency of 1.2GHz in David's image, I was trying to fathom the relationship between the dish receiving frequency and the frequency from the LNB after down convertion which appears at my computer. In other words how can you calculate the frequency output of the LNB from the input frequency received at the dish, which is certainly not a linear relationship.

Regards, Peter


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30 May 2021, 13:13 by ernst.lobsiger@...:

Peter,

Your LNB has a LOW band with Input 10.7 ..11.70 GHz using a Local Oscillator frequency of LO=9.75GHz. Your output is Intermediate Frequency IF = Input - LO    (= 950..1950MHz)
Your LNB has a HIGH band with Input 11.7 ..12.75 GHz using a Local Oscillator frequency of LO=10.6GHz. Your output is Intermediate Frequency IF = Input - LO    (=1100..2150MHz)

LOW and HIGH band is switched with 0 and 22KHz tone (by your receiver, EUMETCast T1,T2 is LOW band)
Vertical and Horizontal polarisation is switched with 13V = V and 18V=H (power supplied by your TC receiver)

Hope this helps
Ernst


Re: Re help with Eitelsat 10

Ernst Lobsiger
 

Peter,

Your LNB has a LOW band with Input 10.7 ..11.70 GHz using a Local Oscillator frequency of LO=9.75GHz. Your output is Intermediate Frequency IF = Input - LO    (= 950..1950MHz)
Your LNB has a HIGH band with Input 11.7 ..12.75 GHz using a Local Oscillator frequency of LO=10.6GHz. Your output is Intermediate Frequency IF = Input - LO    (=1100..2150MHz)

LOW and HIGH band is switched with 0 and 22KHz tone (by your receiver, EUMETCast T1,T2 is LOW band)
Vertical and Horizontal polarisation is switched with 13V = V and 18V=H (power supplied by your TC receiver)

Hope this helps
Ernst


Re: Re help with Eitelsat 10

diogenes1@...
 

Hello all and particularly David. My LNB is an Inverto with an input, I think, of 10.7-11.7GHz giving an output of 0.950 - 1.950GHz. If the beacon is transmitting on 10.95GHz why is its output frequency 1.2GHz and not a lower frequency? I can only guess that the relationship between the output and input frequencies is not linear but follows some peculiar curve - just a guess.

Regards, Peter

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30 May 2021, 08:25 by david-taylor@...:

On 29/05/2021 21:57, Hendrik Fleming wrote:
IMHO instead of looking and waiting for transponder-lock, a better and quicker way, if you have a spectrum analyzer, is just to look for the beacon. For Eutelsat 10, the beacon is at 10950MHz.

Or, if you don't happen to have a 10 GHz spectrum analyser, use the "loop out" feed from your cheap TBS5925 and send it to an RTL-SDR dongle. Here I'm using SDR# as the receiver software. Not surprisingly, my LNB doesn't deliver exactly the expected 1,200 MHz beacon IF. I used BDADataEx to set the LNB for horizontal polarisation.

Nice strong signal, though!

Be sure to do your final adjustments to optimise the link margin especially if want to take HVS-2.

Cheers,
David
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Web: https://www.satsignal.eu
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Re: Missing packets

Ernst Lobsiger
 

On Sun, May 30, 2021 at 12:30 AM, Daniele Guardigli wrote:
I'm experiencing a lot of missed packets like never before and I didn't change anything in my configuration. The setup is made up of Laptop with i7 2.2Ghz, 16GB Ram, TBS5927, hub usb with 1tb ext hdd and tellicast eku.
Thanks.
 
 
Daniele Guardigli
Daniele,

from your first post it even seems you use an external usb hub with a 1GB external HDD attached. If your TelliCast client file system directly goes to this HDD then I'd suspect the USB system (with Receiver, EKU, HDD is kind of overloaded). If the system ran fine for some time but then suddenly almost stopped working, then again check your external HDD for CMR versus SMR recording. It *MUST* be CMR. Unfortunately not all manufacturers specify that. If your HDD has a large buffer (disk cache memory) like 128 - 256MB then this points to SMR.

Ernst


Re: Missing packets

Ernst Lobsiger
 

Daniele,

if you still have the packet loss problem on BAS with SNR=12.7dB then all we can say it's not because of low link margin.
The next culprit often is your harddisk especially if used by other apps. Are you sure your HDD is using CMR recording?
What exactly is the model of your HDD? If the problem is on BAS only while HVS-1 has no problem: Do you use different
HDDs or disk partitions for BAS and HVS-1? For CMR versus SMR recording search this list ...

Regards,
Ernst

P.S. It's also good practice to check the logs of your TC clients. Something unusual found in there?


Re: Missing packets

Daniele Guardigli
 

Ok I understand, regarding hvs-1, but the issue I wrote before was on bas. The link margin should be enough for that


Il Dom 30 Mag 2021, 10:10 Ernst Lobsiger via groups.io <ernst.lobsiger=belponline.ch@groups.io> ha scritto:
On Sun, May 30, 2021 at 12:51 AM, Daniele Guardigli wrote:
what is the link margin? I'm a complete dummy :-) 
 
Daniele,

Your SNR is 12.7 dB. HVS-1 should work with missed packets then and when. For Link Margin (LM) see:

https://groups.io/g/MSG-1/message/31306

Regards,
Ernst


Re: Missing packets

Ernst Lobsiger
 

On Sun, May 30, 2021 at 12:51 AM, Daniele Guardigli wrote:
what is the link margin? I'm a complete dummy :-) 
 
Daniele,

Your SNR is 12.7 dB. HVS-1 should work with missed packets then and when. For Link Margin (LM) see:

https://groups.io/g/MSG-1/message/31306

Regards,
Ernst


Re: Missing packets

Daniele Guardigli
 

Sorry David,

what is the link margin? I'm a complete dummy :-) 

Anyway attached there's my TBS screenshot.

Daniele
Immagine 2021-05-30 095114.jpg

Il giorno dom 30 mag 2021 alle ore 09:38 David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺 via groups.io <david-taylor=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> ha scritto:
On 30/05/2021 08:29, Daniele Guardigli wrote:
> Hi to all,
>
> I'm experiencing a lot of missed packets like never before and I didn't
> change anything in my configuration. The setup is made up of Laptop with
> i7 2.2Ghz, 16GB Ram, TBS5927, hub usb with 1tb ext hdd and tellicast eku.
> Thanks.
>
>
> Daniele Guardigli

Daniele,

What is your link margin?  Perhaps the antenna alignment has slipped?

Cheers,
David
--
SatSignal Software - Quality software for you
Web: https://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@...
Twitter: @gm8arv







--
Daniele Guardigli


Re: Missing packets

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

On 30/05/2021 08:29, Daniele Guardigli wrote:
Hi to all,
I'm experiencing a lot of missed packets like never before and I didn't change anything in my configuration. The setup is made up of Laptop with i7 2.2Ghz, 16GB Ram, TBS5927, hub usb with 1tb ext hdd and tellicast eku.
Thanks.
Daniele Guardigli
Daniele,

What is your link margin? Perhaps the antenna alignment has slipped?

Cheers,
David
--
SatSignal Software - Quality software for you
Web: https://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk
Twitter: @gm8arv


Missing packets

Daniele Guardigli
 

Hi to all,

I'm experiencing a lot of missed packets like never before and I didn't change anything in my configuration. The setup is made up of Laptop with i7 2.2Ghz, 16GB Ram, TBS5927, hub usb with 1tb ext hdd and tellicast eku.
Thanks.


Daniele Guardigli


Re: Re help with Eitelsat 10

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

On 29/05/2021 21:57, Hendrik Fleming wrote:
IMHO instead of looking and waiting for transponder-lock, a better and quicker way, if you have a spectrum analyzer, is just to look for the beacon. For Eutelsat 10, the beacon is at 10950MHz.
Or, if you don't happen to have a 10 GHz spectrum analyser, use the "loop out" feed from your cheap TBS5925 and send it to an RTL-SDR dongle. Here I'm using SDR# as the receiver software. Not surprisingly, my LNB doesn't deliver exactly the expected 1,200 MHz beacon IF. I used BDADataEx to set the LNB for horizontal polarisation.

Nice strong signal, though!

Be sure to do your final adjustments to optimise the link margin especially if want to take HVS-2.

Cheers,
David
--
SatSignal Software - Quality software for you
Web: https://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk
Twitter: @gm8arv


Re: Re help with Eitelsat 10

Hendrik Fleming
 

IMHO instead of looking and waiting for transponder-lock, a better and quicker way, if you have a spectrum analyzer, is just to look for the beacon. For Eutelsat 10, the beacon is at 10950MHz. 


Re: Anyone selling DVB hardware?

Hendrik Fleming
 

I use a tbs-6903, dual tuner, so you can receive basic and HVS-1 on the one tuner and HVS-2 on the second tuner. It is PCIe, just be aware of what motherboard you use with it. My computers are all 10+year olds. First PC I tried with it, a 2007 Dell Poweredge with a intel-due processor, didn’t work, second computer was based on an Asus motherboard from 2012, and that worked quite fine. Lots of people selling the TBS-6903 cards on e-bay.

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