Date   

Re: Starting and Stoping

Corrado Brigante <corrado@...>
 

I agree with You David..
It would be really nice..i'm in the same conditions...
Reagrds Corrado

----- Original Message -----
From: davidstrickland2003
To: MSG-1@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 4:49 PM
Subject: [MSG-1] Starting and Stoping


David,
It would be nice to have MSG with an option so that you can stop
processing at completion of the next full set of images. Reason is
that using a dual processing system I leave the collector on all the
time but do the processing with MSG on another machine that is used
heavily for other purposes during which time I stop MSG. It is fun to
see the system struggle to process a couple of days of images whilst
more pour in - it is great software - it just hangs in there even
with sometimes 10's of Gbytes of data to process, not crashed yet! It
would be nice just to have all complete images but not essential.

Regards David


Starting and Stoping

davidstrickland2003 <David@...>
 

David,
It would be nice to have MSG with an option so that you can stop
processing at completion of the next full set of images. Reason is
that using a dual processing system I leave the collector on all the
time but do the processing with MSG on another machine that is used
heavily for other purposes during which time I stop MSG. It is fun to
see the system struggle to process a couple of days of images whilst
more pour in - it is great software - it just hangs in there even
with sometimes 10's of Gbytes of data to process, not crashed yet! It
would be nice just to have all complete images but not essential.

Regards David


Re: signal loss

James Brown <james@...>
 


Is there anyone else out there having a similar problem?

Robert Moore
Sorry to say Robert the answer is no. Signal strength here is varying as it has always done between 70% and 79%. This has been one of the best days for missing segments. Lots of ch 12 late segments. I don't take a full data set - no LRIT ATM but running animatior I have had no missing portions even in the UK ch 12 region - been running since 08:30.

Hope your wind problems get resolved.
James
--
James Brown


signal loss

Robert Moore
 

Serious loss of signal - 7 october 2003
***************************************

List members may have seen earlier exchanges on this topic on the
SatSignal list.

Today I have experienced a very large number of missed segments, very
substantially more than those recorded by David Taylor. Since installing
my equipment I have had no problems until today. Excellent reception in fact.

Setup4PC shows that my signal quality - normally steady at 69 - 70% is now
from time to time fluctuation wildly - including one instant switch from 100%
to zero percent (with consequential 'Out of Lock' message). It is regularly
dropping to low 60 per cent and sometimes to 30 - 20 - 0 per cent.

Uncorrected blocks run into thousands


I am in a very exposed position 165 metres ASL with nothing between the back of
my dish and the Mull of Galloway. Dish seems solid enough, very securely
bracketed on an end wall in the only position where my house can see MSG-1.
There are trees on the whole of my south side and I assumed these to be the
culprits. But I spent some time checking with a sighting inclinometer: MSG-1 is
at 26 degrees of elevation from here; at ground level the tree tops are not
moving above 24 degrees of elevation - and the dish is about 3 metres above
ground level.

Wind is blowing at about force 5 but gusting to 6 and occassionally 7. I was
beginning to wonder if the dish itself is actually flexing and causing a loss
of signal to the block. The wind is directly into the convex side of the dish
but I'm not sure of the aerodynamics of one of Dave Cawley's finest.

I'm getting variations to in sig qual low 60s in relatively calm patches.
50s to low 40s with quite modest gusts (surely not enough to flex a dish?)
Slightly more wind knocks me down into the red - but not consistently.
Strong gusts take the signal right down, including zero - but not every time.

Have now spent some time gazing up at the dish. Brackets are, as I said before,
'rock solid' but in the strong gusts the mounting pole and dish oscillate a
little (presumably if they did not the bracket would be torn out of the
brickwork!). Perhaps my signal loss derives entirely from the dish shaking? But
there must be millions with TV aerials - would they have problems with a
shaking dish? But I think the flexing dish hypothesis must be rejected!

The apparent randomness of the relationship between signal loss and force of
wind might be explained by the duration of the gust and the relative
oscillation frequencies of the pole and dish. Luca's comments noted (thanks
Luca) and also David's reply.

Is there anyone else out there having a similar problem?

Robert Moore



------------------------------
Professor Robert Moore
Department of Sociology, Social Policy
and Social Work Studies
The University of Liverpool
Eleanor Rathbone Building
Bedford Street South
Liverpool
L69 7ZA

tel and fax: 44 (0) 1352 714456


Re: Signal strenght reading

Luca Bertagnolio <lucaberta@...>
 

--- In MSG-1@yahoogroups.com, "David Taylor" <david-taylor@b...>
wrote:
Do we know how the signal strength readings compare on the USB and
PCI versions? I know that when my PCI card indication drops below
50% (yellow, I thnk) the BER goes up quite noticeably and segment
drop-outs do occur.
very good point David. Next step is to plug in the SkyStar2 PCI card
I have to check if there is any major difference. I have both a 2.3
and a 2.6 version, so I can also see if there is any big difference
between the two (and I am sure there is, reading other people's
email).

I'll let you once I'll do these tests.

Bye, Luca


Re: Signal strenght reading

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

With my extra-small dish setup (40cm in a plastic bucket, look for
luca-dish.jpg in http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SatSignal/files/ )
and the USB version of the SkyStar2 adapter my signal strength is
anywhere from 8% (deep red) to 22-23% (barely yellow), and yet I can
receive 100% of the data, of course if the weather is nice.


Luca,

Do we know how the signal strength readings compare on the USB and
PCI versions? I know that when my PCI card indication drops below
50% (yellow, I thnk) the BER goes up quite noticeably and segment
drop-outs do occur.

I rather suspect these signal strength indicators are rather like S-
meters on amateur radio kit, mostly meaningless, perhaps
occasionally useful for comparitive measurements, but calibrated to
any absolute standard, definitely not!! Actually, it's worse than
that, because of the digital threshold/capture effect we are looking
at very small changes in signal strength between no signal and OK.
This implies, perhaps, a reading accuracy requirement of 1dB, surely
a much tighter specification than any consumer equipment is made to?

Comments welcomed!

Cheers,
David


Signal strenght reading

Luca Bertagnolio <lucaberta@...>
 

Folks,

been reading the nice posting on the other list, and I'd like to add
my 2 europennies to the discussion.

With my extra-small dish setup (40cm in a plastic bucket, look for
luca-dish.jpg in http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SatSignal/files/ ) and
the USB version of the SkyStar2 adapter my signal strength is
anywhere from 8% (deep red) to 22-23% (barely yellow), and yet I can
receive 100% of the data, of course if the weather is nice.

So, maybe the signal level is not so important after all... maybe
it's very quick changes in the signal level due to local weather like
heavy rain or hail that create the issue, but definitely not a low
signal strenght.

Bye, Luca


Re: Configuration Guide

Luca Bertagnolio <lucaberta@...>
 

True! I'll start to look around for some kind person, and if I can
find him/her, I promise you'll be the first ones to know!

:-)

Ciao, Luca

--- In MSG-1@yahoogroups.com, "David Taylor" <david-taylor@b...>
wrote:
If you can read Italian !
I was hoping some kind person would translate it - it isn't too
long! Or even suggest what might need to be added to the existing
setup information to make it cover the same areas....


Re: Configuration Guide

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

If you can read Italian !
I was hoping some kind person would translate it - it isn't too
long! Or even suggest what might need to be added to the existing
setup information to make it cover the same areas....

Cheers,
David


Re: Configuration Guide

a_van_belle
 

--- In MSG-1@yahoogroups.com, "David Taylor" <david-taylor@b...>
wrote:
The folks over on the Italian MSG-1 list have compiled a guide to
getting the system running. I don't know how much it duplicates
what is on the various Web sites, but it might be a starting point
for our guide....
If you can read Italian !

Nice to know there are more initiatives on MSG-1.

Greetings,
Arne van Belle


Re: Setup help please

johnrigsec@...
 

In a message dated 04-10-03 16:58:54 GMT Daylight Time,
douglas@dsdeans.freeserve.co.uk writes:

I think Ian's point is a fair one. Although this card gets a tremendous
write up it is extremely cheap by comparison with others. I would not like
to have to replace a full HRIT or LRIT receiver but this card is less than
most cheap graphics cards.... not that I don't hope it will last for many
years.

Regards
Douglas.
Douglas,

Indeed.
Who would have thought 18 months ago events would have turned out, from a
cost,
logistics and 'technical' sense, from the sublime to the ridiculous - or
rather that
should be the other way around.

And, I have several different makes of satellite TV receivers that run very
hot.

Regards,
John.


Configuration Guide

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

The folks over on the Italian MSG-1 list have compiled a guide to
getting the system running. I don't know how much it duplicates
what is on the various Web sites, but it might be a starting point
for our guide....

See:

<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/msg_1/files/Configurazione%20pratica%
20per%20MSG-1.txt>

(beware of any wrap)

Ciao,
David


0745 Scan

Douglas Deans <douglas@...>
 

Did anyone else spot that every single segment (HRIT) for the 07.45 scan was
in before the Prologue for the 08.00.
The perfect scenario and shows that it is possible.
Perhaps a good omen.

Regards
Douglas.


Re: Todays missing segments

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

--- In MSG-1@yahoogroups.com, "Luca Bertagnolio" <lucaberta@y...>
wrote:
See, David is starting to do something to address the issue, told
you...

;-)

Ciao, Luca
Beta V1.2.2.222 of the MSG Data Manager now records Late Segments
and includes them in the Missing Segment Reports. You can download
it from:

http://www.satsignal.net => Software, Beta Versions.

It made its first report with the 0600 HRIT cycle this morning!

Cheers,
David


Re: Todays missing segments

Luca Bertagnolio <lucaberta@...>
 

See, David is starting to do something to address the issue, told
you...

;-)

Ciao, Luca

--- In MSG-1@yahoogroups.com, "David Taylor" <david-taylor@b...>
wrote:
As the Late Segments are clearly causing a problem for many users,
I
will add reporting of Late Segments to the program (in addition to
the "skipped" entries in the log file.


Re: Todays missing segments

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

No david, it's not a program error but my mistake. I see the
skipped segment too now.
Must have had process.log opened while I was searching
for "Skipped"

Arne,

Process.log only gets update from time to time - when a new prologue
file arrives is one of those times.

As the Late Segments are clearly causing a problem for many users, I
will add reporting of Late Segments to the program (in addition to
the "skipped" entries in the log file.

Cheers,
David


Re: Todays missing segments

a_van_belle
 

--- In MSG-1@yahoogroups.com, "David Taylor" <david-taylor@b...>
wrote:
Arne,

If you are saying this is a program error, please give me the
details.... Is this the segment?
No david, it's not a program error but my mistake. I see the skipped
segment too now.
Must have had process.log opened while I was searching for "Skipped"

Have to much running over here !

Greetings,
Arne van Belle


Re: Todays missing segments

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

Prologues have always been sent in between the last few segments
of the previous scan, that was never an issue. The problems lies in
data segments sent before the previous scan trasmission was ompleted.
[]
Bye, Luca
Luca,

There is one relatively minor issue - the offset of the northern and
southern part of the HRV scan is carried in the prologue file.
Consequently, if a new prologue file is received before segment 24,
for example, the offset value recorded for segment 24 may be that of
the offset for the next scan, rather than for the scan which is in
progress. Usually, this only amounts to a pixel or so, which goes
unnoticed.

It is for this reason that I suggest that HRV data be transmitted in
strict sequence with the prologue file.

Ciao,
David


Re: Todays missing segments

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

I'm sure David is already mumbling on how to build a workaround in
his code... ;-)

Bye, Luca
No,

David has written to Eumetsat suggesting that if the HRIT data must
be prioritised then make it:

- top priority: Prologue and HRV data (HRV data as it is unique,
prologue to keep the HRV scan offset data carried in the prologue in
step with the actual scan)

- next: channels 1 3 4 5 and 9 (arbitrary choice, but what Eumetsat
chose for the LRIT data)

- lowest: channels 2 6 7 8 10 and 11 (arbitrary lesser interest
channels - you might argue channel 1 vs. channel 2, and whether
channels 9 & 10 form a sea-surface temperature pair).

I have also asked that, if possible, measures be taken to ensure
that correct segment sequencing is preserved, particularly with
segment 8 (& 24) which is rather important to European users.....

(Of course, there are primary users of the service who may have a
completely different view, or be able to afford software which is
100 times as expensive that can handle these issues smoothly.....).

Ciao,
David


Re: Todays missing segments

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

The 18.30 UTC HRV segment 24 came too late and was skipped, so
the
problem persists.

You're right Douglas, back to browsing the images again as this
segment was not reported as "skipped" !
Arne,

If you are saying this is a program error, please give me the
details.... Is this the segment?

2003-10-05 18:49:29.194 H-000-MSG1__-MSG1________-_________-
EPI______-200310051830-__
2003-10-05 18:49:29.244 H-000-MSG1__-MSG1________-HRV______-
000024___-200310051830-C_
2003-10-05 18:49:46 Skipped - data is older than current data
2003-10-05 18:49:31.407 H-000-MSG1__-MSG1________-HRV______-
000002___-200310051845-C_
2003-10-05 18:49:59.127 H-000-MSG1__-MSG1________-VIS006___-
000001___-200310051845-C_


Cheers,
David