Date   

Re: Equipment for receiving MSG-1

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

http://www.satsignal.net => Software, Beta Versions
When I download from the beta page although it says beta 214, I am
getting the full (1.8Mb) version.

Douglas.
Oops, now fixed. You may need a Ctrl-F5 refresh on the Web page.

David


Re: Equipment for receiving MSG-1

Douglas Deans <douglas@...>
 

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Taylor" <david-taylor@...>
To: <MSG-1@...>
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 8:56 PM
Subject: [MSG-1] Re: Equipment for receiving MSG-1


By the way: Did anybody noticed something unusual when processing
todays 15:15 HRIT scan ?

Yes, there was an HRV segment which had been trucated when
transmitted. The MSG Data Manager, despite being written with
extensive exception handling, failed to pick up this bad data, and
gave an I/O Error 103 message. There is an updated beta version of
the program available from:

http://www.satsignal.net => Software, Beta Versions

Cheers,
David
When I download from the beta page although it says beta 214, I am getting
the full (1.8Mb) 210 version.

Douglas.


Re: Equipment for receiving MSG-1

Alan Sewards <alan.sewards@...>
 

Arne,
Thank you for this useful factual evidence. I do not have any results
with Animation running, so you have indicated an important load there. I
feel that using GSS or other software in addition to the processing load is
something that one would not expect the processing computer to do, I would
use another machine for that, but I feel that it is important to find out
whether or not a two-machine set up is essential for reception. I am now
more than ever convinced that it is not!

Best regards - Alan

----- Original Message -----
From: "a_van_belle" <a.van.belle@...>
To: <MSG-1@...>
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 9:47 PM
Subject: [MSG-1] Re: Equipment for receiving MSG-1


I tested the single PC setup for a couple of days (and at our 13
september meeting at utrecht).

It is possible to receive and process images simultaneously. But you
need to monitor CPU load and memory usage at every step. Either
select only a few channels in MDM or stock up your memory to 1024 Mb
or more.
Running Tellique and MDM (all channels on, HRIT and LRIT) is possible
without missing segments on a 1.8 GHz P4 with 512 Mb.
In addition I do browse the images simultaniously wit PSP.

But running Geosatsignal and animation additionally is too heavy for
the amount of memory and causes loss of missing segments, even on my
intel P4 2.4 GHz with 1024 Mb DDR memory running Windows 2000 SP3.

But a word of caution here; MSG Data stream is still being expanded
(latest addition MDD data) and other "simple" tasks should be avoided
on this PC.
Once I tried to browse a folder with over 20.000 raw data files and
had Windows explorer hanging for a couple of minutes and a lot of
missing segments afterwards !
So house keeping a single PC that runs for 24 hours a day will be a
challenge !

Greetings,
Arne van Belle

By the way: Did anybody noticed something unusual when processing
todays 15:15 HRIT scan ?




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Re: Equipment for receiving MSG-1

a_van_belle
 

Thanks David for you very fast reply,

Was completely focussed on managing my MSG equipment and did see the
thread on Satsignal too late ! Too many PC's running or to many
Mailing-lists ??
Have downloaded the update and will restart processing within a
minute !

Greetings,
Arne van Belle


Re: Equipment for receiving MSG-1

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

By the way: Did anybody noticed something unusual when processing
todays 15:15 HRIT scan ?

Yes, there was an HRV segment which had been trucated when
transmitted. The MSG Data Manager, despite being written with
extensive exception handling, failed to pick up this bad data, and
gave an I/O Error 103 message. There is an updated beta version of
the program available from:

http://www.satsignal.net => Software, Beta Versions

Cheers,
David


Re: Equipment for receiving MSG-1

a_van_belle
 

I tested the single PC setup for a couple of days (and at our 13
september meeting at utrecht).

It is possible to receive and process images simultaneously. But you
need to monitor CPU load and memory usage at every step. Either
select only a few channels in MDM or stock up your memory to 1024 Mb
or more.
Running Tellique and MDM (all channels on, HRIT and LRIT) is possible
without missing segments on a 1.8 GHz P4 with 512 Mb.
In addition I do browse the images simultaniously wit PSP.

But running Geosatsignal and animation additionally is too heavy for
the amount of memory and causes loss of missing segments, even on my
intel P4 2.4 GHz with 1024 Mb DDR memory running Windows 2000 SP3.

But a word of caution here; MSG Data stream is still being expanded
(latest addition MDD data) and other "simple" tasks should be avoided
on this PC.
Once I tried to browse a folder with over 20.000 raw data files and
had Windows explorer hanging for a couple of minutes and a lot of
missing segments afterwards !
So house keeping a single PC that runs for 24 hours a day will be a
challenge !

Greetings,
Arne van Belle

By the way: Did anybody noticed something unusual when processing
todays 15:15 HRIT scan ?


Re: MSGDatamanager -> Processing older data than today

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

at the moment i try to generate some quicklooks out of some older
msg data
(from some month ago) with your MSGDatamanager (which also
processes
quicklooks for each incoming pass)
As i view the "logs"-tab in your program is see the following
message:
"Skipped - data is older than current data".

Is there a way to disable this "feature" and so process older data
than the
actual / last processed?
Maik,

There is no quick way to disable this feature, which was enabled as
a way of getting round the odd sequence order sometimes seen.

I guess you could try starting the program _without_ doing the
current processing, and then your older data will be the most recent
data. Perhaps you could also use the Open, Scan command to do the
processing manually.

Cheers,
David


Re: MSGDatamanager -> Processing older data than today

Ulrich G. Kliegis <Ulrich.Kliegis@...>
 

On 7 Sep 2003 at 8:33, Maik Dobbermann wrote:

As i view the "logs"-tab in your program is see the following
message:
"Skipped - data is older than current data".

Is there a way to disable this "feature" and so process older data
than the actual / last processed?
Looking at your message's posting date and comparing that to my
calendar, I see a discrepancy. Maybe my calendar is wrong, but maybe
your system date is even more out of range, and maybe that could be a
reason for your prob?

Regards,

U.


Re: Equipment for receiving MSG-1

Timestep <Information@...>
 

From: Dave Cawley
Timestep Dartmouth England
e-mail Information@...
Web site http://www.Time-step.com
Tel. +44 (0)1803 833366
Fax. +44 (0)1803 839498

I expect that if you want absolutely everything, and to take anything in the
future, two computers "may" be needed.

But for us mere mortals, that only need a few areas, and for me UK Visible;
it has been proven over and over again you only need one computer.

Regards

Dave


Re: Equipment for receiving MSG-1

Guy Martin <agm@...>
 

I agree Alan,

It depends what use you wish to make of the service, just grab a download to see what the weather is up to every few hours or constantly monitor, animate and archive the lot.

Regards, Guy

----- Original Message -----
From: Alan Sewards
To: MSG-1@...
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 4:09 PM
Subject: Re: [MSG-1] Equipment for receiving MSG-1


Guy,
You have made my point - we don't *know* how much a second machine is
really needed. We have lots of armwaving but few facts. As it makes a big
difference when looked at in terms of thousands of users buying and
maintaining equipment, it might be a good thing if we got it right ahead of
time? (IMHO)

Best regards - Alan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Guy Martin" <agm@...>
To: <MSG-1@...>
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:44 AM
Subject: Re: [MSG-1] Equipment for receiving MSG-1



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Re: Did you get missing segments on 2003 September 20?

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

--- In MSG-1@..., "David Taylor" <david-taylor@b...>
wrote:
Did you get any missing segments on 2003 September 20 for the 2015
cycle?
Folks,

Many thanks for all the reports. It seems that we all saw the same
misisng data (as reported by the MSG Data Manager), which may mean
the data was missing or that there was file name the program did not
understand. Actually checking through my Tellique logs, I see that
I did not actually receive files for that period. I will pass this
information to Eumetsat.

No more reports required, thanks (unless you want to plough through
the Tellique logs to confirm that you did or did not get the file.).

Cheers,
David


Re: Equipment for receiving MSG-1

Alan Sewards <alan.sewards@...>
 

Guy,
You have made my point - we don't *know* how much a second machine is
really needed. We have lots of armwaving but few facts. As it makes a big
difference when looked at in terms of thousands of users buying and
maintaining equipment, it might be a good thing if we got it right ahead of
time? (IMHO)

Best regards - Alan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Guy Martin" <agm@...>
To: <MSG-1@...>
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:44 AM
Subject: Re: [MSG-1] Equipment for receiving MSG-1


I don't believe the Rx machine needs to be anything special, I use an Abit
KT7 with a Duron 800 and its just cruising along consuming minimal
resources. However when data arrives it does need to deal with it instantly
and not be held up by MDM decompressing or saving, it needs a 'non maskable
interrupt' in effect and MDM provides a tick box to do just this. I use a
Gigabyte GA7VKML with an Athlon 1200 in the display machine and the
processor goes to 100% when MDM is dealing with data and uses about 322/512
Mb of RAM. I really need a faster machine for this application although
having said that it does work ok with no dropped segments. A serious spec
machine may function well as a single unit and a lower grade machine could
receive data and decompress/display alternately. It is always important to
turn off services that you don't need and which consume resources as vanilla
installs come with everything turned on. Regarding XP, I'm a Win2K man and
not yet happy with XP when u!
sed outside of MS products.

Cheers, Guy

----- Original Message -----
From: Alan Sewards
To: MSG-1@...
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 8:17 AM
Subject: [MSG-1] Equipment for receiving MSG-1


While John is busy collating the inputs from those who have participated
in
the MSG-1 dissemination trials, I thought it might be of interest to
question some of the basic assumptions. The main one of these is that
one
needs to have two computers, one for the reception function and one for
the
decoding. Because I only had one, I had to make do with it for all
functions, and in doing so I expected I would lose some of the data.
However, as time has gone on, I have begun to realise that any data that
might have been lost due to possible overload of the single computer is
insignificant compared with data lost from other sources associated with
the
dissemination trials. In fact, I did a test overnight where I stopped
the
MSG DM and then restarted it at 0500UTC, so it had about 12 hours of
captured data to process, which is does in what I call 'catch-up' mode,
that
is running flat out with the CPU utilization running around 80-100% on a
continuing basis. It took about two hours to process all the stored data
and, as far as I could tell by a visual inspection of the thumbnails,
there
were no missing segments in either the period of stored data or in data
captured during the catch-up processing. This leads me to suspect that a
single computer is all that is needed for MSG reception, provided of
course
that it has sufficient power. I should note here that I only collect
seven
of the 12 HRIT channels, all the LRIT and FSD, so I do not have a full
load.
I may try an experiment of collecting the full set and see if that makes
any
difference. My computer is nothing special, 1800 Athlon, with 512 MB.
Because I have had great difficulty in getting two computers running
Windows XP to network properly, I am seriously considering departing
from
the two-computer concept and sticking with a single one for MSG, and I
feel
pretty confident that it will work. Anyone else had similar thoughts?
Should
we do some serious tests to find out if two computers are really
necessary?

Best regards - Alan

Alan Sewards
email: alan.sewards@...
web site: http://asewards.free.fr



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Re: Did you get missing segments on 2003 September 20?

Douglas Deans <douglas@...>
 

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Taylor" <david-taylor@...>
To: <MSG-1@...>
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 12:22 PM
Subject: [MSG-1] Re: Did you get missing segments on 2003 September 20?


My 20th images are long gone but the missing segment report
suggests that segments 7 and 8 were missing for channels 1-11 and 17-
24 were missing for the HRV channel for the 20.15 scan.

Thanks, Douglas. I understand you don't take the LRIT? By the way,
the missing segments report keeps one week of backlog data.

Cheers,
David

One week back seems about right. It is certainly a very handy utility.
No I am no longer processing LRIT although it is coming in as the PID also
does the FSD data.
My processing computer does a lot of other things during the
day....internet.... MSG Animator....a lot of GSS 4 work and other bits and
pieces so I only process what I need now. My 1024Mb of DDR ram still runs
out sometimes !

Thanks
Douglas.


Re: Did you get missing segments on 2003 September 20?

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

My 20th images are long gone but the missing segment report
suggests that segments 7 and 8 were missing for channels 1-11 and 17-
24 were missing for the HRV channel for the 20.15 scan.

Thanks, Douglas. I understand you don't take the LRIT? By the way,
the missing segments report keeps one week of backlog data.

Cheers,
David


Re: Did you get missing segments on 2003 September 20?

Douglas Deans <douglas@...>
 

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Taylor" <david-taylor@...>
To: <MSG-1@...>
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 11:58 AM
Subject: [MSG-1] Re: Did you get missing segments on 2003 September 20?


--- In MSG-1@..., "David Taylor" <david-taylor@b...>
wrote:
Did you get any missing segments on 2003 September 20 for the 2015
cycle?
One more thing, could you give your location (general area is
enough) when writing, please? To repeat, negative reports are
equally important!

Thanks,
David

My 20th images are long gone but the missing segment report suggests that
segments 7 and 8 were missing for channels 1-11 and 17-24 were missing for
the HRV channel for the 20.15 scan.

Hope that helps

Regards
Douglas.


Re: Did you get missing segments on 2003 September 20?

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

--- In MSG-1@..., "David Taylor" <david-taylor@b...>
wrote:
Did you get any missing segments on 2003 September 20 for the 2015
cycle?
One more thing, could you give your location (general area is
enough) when writing, please? To repeat, negative reports are
equally important!

Thanks,
David


Re: Equipment for receiving MSG-1

Guy Martin <agm@...>
 

I don't believe the Rx machine needs to be anything special, I use an Abit KT7 with a Duron 800 and its just cruising along consuming minimal resources. However when data arrives it does need to deal with it instantly and not be held up by MDM decompressing or saving, it needs a 'non maskable interrupt' in effect and MDM provides a tick box to do just this. I use a Gigabyte GA7VKML with an Athlon 1200 in the display machine and the processor goes to 100% when MDM is dealing with data and uses about 322/512 Mb of RAM. I really need a faster machine for this application although having said that it does work ok with no dropped segments. A serious spec machine may function well as a single unit and a lower grade machine could receive data and decompress/display alternately. It is always important to turn off services that you don't need and which consume resources as vanilla installs come with everything turned on. Regarding XP, I'm a Win2K man and not yet happy with XP when used outside of MS products.

Cheers, Guy

----- Original Message -----
From: Alan Sewards
To: MSG-1@...
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 8:17 AM
Subject: [MSG-1] Equipment for receiving MSG-1


While John is busy collating the inputs from those who have participated in
the MSG-1 dissemination trials, I thought it might be of interest to
question some of the basic assumptions. The main one of these is that one
needs to have two computers, one for the reception function and one for the
decoding. Because I only had one, I had to make do with it for all
functions, and in doing so I expected I would lose some of the data.
However, as time has gone on, I have begun to realise that any data that
might have been lost due to possible overload of the single computer is
insignificant compared with data lost from other sources associated with the
dissemination trials. In fact, I did a test overnight where I stopped the
MSG DM and then restarted it at 0500UTC, so it had about 12 hours of
captured data to process, which is does in what I call 'catch-up' mode, that
is running flat out with the CPU utilization running around 80-100% on a
continuing basis. It took about two hours to process all the stored data
and, as far as I could tell by a visual inspection of the thumbnails, there
were no missing segments in either the period of stored data or in data
captured during the catch-up processing. This leads me to suspect that a
single computer is all that is needed for MSG reception, provided of course
that it has sufficient power. I should note here that I only collect seven
of the 12 HRIT channels, all the LRIT and FSD, so I do not have a full load.
I may try an experiment of collecting the full set and see if that makes any
difference. My computer is nothing special, 1800 Athlon, with 512 MB.
Because I have had great difficulty in getting two computers running
Windows XP to network properly, I am seriously considering departing from
the two-computer concept and sticking with a single one for MSG, and I feel
pretty confident that it will work. Anyone else had similar thoughts? Should
we do some serious tests to find out if two computers are really necessary?

Best regards - Alan

Alan Sewards
email: alan.sewards@...
web site: http://asewards.free.fr



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Did you get missing segments on 2003 September 20?

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

Did you get any missing segments on 2003 September 20 for the 2015
cycle?

It seems that some people did and some did not, so I would be
interested in knowing what the patter was. If you are running the
current MSG Data Manager (i.e. V1.2.0 or higher), could you please
take a moment to activate the Tools, Missing segments report...
menu. From the Choose a day, select September 20.

In the Missing segments list, do you have any missing segments
listed for scan/cycle 2015? Please don't report any other missing
segments. I am interested in both positive and negative reports,
i.e. please report whether you got any missing segments for that
cycle or not.

Let's not clutter the list - send reports to
davidtaylor@... - and I will summarise the results.

(If you don't have a Missing segments report menu item, time to
upgrade now!).

Many thanks,
David


Equipment for receiving MSG-1

Alan Sewards <alan.sewards@...>
 

While John is busy collating the inputs from those who have participated in
the MSG-1 dissemination trials, I thought it might be of interest to
question some of the basic assumptions. The main one of these is that one
needs to have two computers, one for the reception function and one for the
decoding. Because I only had one, I had to make do with it for all
functions, and in doing so I expected I would lose some of the data.
However, as time has gone on, I have begun to realise that any data that
might have been lost due to possible overload of the single computer is
insignificant compared with data lost from other sources associated with the
dissemination trials. In fact, I did a test overnight where I stopped the
MSG DM and then restarted it at 0500UTC, so it had about 12 hours of
captured data to process, which is does in what I call 'catch-up' mode, that
is running flat out with the CPU utilization running around 80-100% on a
continuing basis. It took about two hours to process all the stored data
and, as far as I could tell by a visual inspection of the thumbnails, there
were no missing segments in either the period of stored data or in data
captured during the catch-up processing. This leads me to suspect that a
single computer is all that is needed for MSG reception, provided of course
that it has sufficient power. I should note here that I only collect seven
of the 12 HRIT channels, all the LRIT and FSD, so I do not have a full load.
I may try an experiment of collecting the full set and see if that makes any
difference. My computer is nothing special, 1800 Athlon, with 512 MB.
Because I have had great difficulty in getting two computers running
Windows XP to network properly, I am seriously considering departing from
the two-computer concept and sticking with a single one for MSG, and I feel
pretty confident that it will work. Anyone else had similar thoughts? Should
we do some serious tests to find out if two computers are really necessary?

Best regards - Alan

Alan Sewards
email: alan.sewards@...
web site: http://asewards.free.fr


Re: MSG-1 user equipment survey.

johnrigsec@...
 

All,

Just to say many thanks to all those who have already responded, specs are
flooding in and I'm beginning to wonder what I've let myself in for.

No, seriously, we started off with the EUMETSAT recommended system
specification which looked a bit daunting for many.
But amateurs have shown that very good results can be achieved with lower
spec.
systems.
I hope your feedback will be a useful pointer as to just what can be achieved
with
lesser spec. systems.
However, we are not into full 'operational status' yet.

At the moment I'm just filing responses till I have a block of time to read
and
collate them.

I hope you will forgive me at the moment in not responding directly to all
who
have responded.

Regards,
John Tellick.