Date   

Re: missing segments / PC resets

Douglas Deans <douglas@...>
 

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Taylor" <david-taylor@...>
To: <MSG-1@...>
Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 9:12 AM
Subject: [MSG-1] Re: missing segments / PC resets


Just to let you know that I seem to have a lot of unexplained
missing segments overnight after a number of really good days, so
I've also taken the full mains-off reset route this morning.....

I wonder if it happens when Tellique's memory allocation gets too
high?

Cheers,
David
From memory (excuse the pun) it seems to happen to those who keep their
computers on permanently or at least for long periods at a time.
As you know I switch off at night and back on early morning and have never
experienced this.
Would that not further support your suggestion.

Regards
Douglas.


Re: missing segments / PC resets

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

Just to let you know that I seem to have a lot of unexplained
missing segments overnight after a number of really good days, so
I've also taken the full mains-off reset route this morning.....

I wonder if it happens when Tellique's memory allocation gets too
high?

Cheers,
David


Re: Wavelet-compressed HRV data

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

But we don't know if these lossless wavelet compressed HRV's are
here to stay. (I really hope so !)

Arne, Eumetsat are looking for any reports of problems with the new
format, so if they don't get any such reports I think the likelihood
of keeping the format increases. If anyone has problems with the
new HRV format please do speak now!!

So I should do a new comparison on lossy compressed HRV's from IMPF
(29 Oct) saved in jpg86 and png.
It would be great to get a good recommendation for the JPEG save
quality I set as default. Of course, the user can alter this to get
either smaller files or a better quality, and it is a subjective
measurement....

Currently I am determining new min/max values on MSG-1 and GOES
images using the 10 bit Rob Alblas XRIT2PIC decoder, will let all
know my results later this week.
First observation: The IMPF system does use the 0..1023 range much
better compared to the IIPS.
The min values should be unchanged, as all MSG-1 channels are
processed so that zero radiance is count 51. That was true of the
IQGSE software and remains true with the IMPF software.

You can set a channel temporarily to min:0, max:1023, gamma: 100,
thermal cal:no to see exactly what range is transmitted. The MSG-1
LRIT channels are already processed with those settings, by the
way.

Given the resulting image histogram then says 13..200 (say), the
corresponding values to set for main and max would be four times
that, 52..800, say. There is no one "correct" setting for gamma.
The value of 140 (gamma = 1.4) is designed so that single count
sensor changes around black level appear as single count image pixel
changes, thus preserving as much of the dynamic range as possible in
the dark parts of the image.

Also beware that when measuring the histogram, the off-earth values
are set to zero rather than the minimum sensor count (this
translates to a value of 1 in the JPEG saved LRIT images I just
checked), so be sure to ignore any histogram values below 13 in
unprocessed images.

Cheers,
David


Re: Wavelet-compressed HRV data

a_van_belle
 

--- In MSG-1@..., "David Taylor" <david-taylor@b...>
wrote:
That's a good point, Ian. I have increased the default JPEG save
level from 82 to 86, but I believe that Arne van Belle wants to
update some tests on the save level setting. It will be
interesting to see his new results.

Hello David and others,

Did some tests, comparing the 28 October IIPS lossy HRV to 30
October's IMPF losless HRV. This showed a drastic improvement on
details and gave smooth grey gradients. All "jpeg artefacts" are gone
when saving losless HRV to PNG.
But we don't know if these lossless wavelet compressed HRV's are here
to stay. (I really hope so !)

So I should do a new comparison on lossy compressed HRV's from IMPF
(29 Oct) saved in jpg86 and png.

Currently I am determining new min/max values on MSG-1 and GOES
images using the 10 bit Rob Alblas XRIT2PIC decoder, will let all
know my results later this week.
First observation: The IMPF system does use the 0..1023 range much
better compared to the IIPS.

Greetings,
Arne van Belle


Re: missing segments / PC resets

Dave Martin <Dave.Martin@...>
 

From: David J Taylor
To: SatSignal@...
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 6:05 PM
<snip>
As Douglas has said, sometimes a hard reboot clears up things.....
additionally, concerning the efficacy of "re-boots", I think there are times
when we suffer from the growing 'power' of PCs and kit therein, and we can
be mislead into thinking we have reset our PC when it hasn't =all= reset..

Modern PCs very rarely have what we used to refer to as the last resort of
the BRS (Big Red Switch) - instead there is sophisticated power management,
and the front-panel power switch is frequently only a signal button.

Even when "off" many modern PCs have wake-on-LAN and even wake-on-keyboard
activity - and as a result, many preserve power to the PCI bus even when
ostensibly shut-down; some also keep keyboards and even USB ports powered-up
as well. Co-incidentally, many plug-in cards have more on-board processing,
and these satellite cards (e.g. B2C2 engine) are a perfect example with
significant processing and on-board I2C communications.

Some plug-in boards don't always "hear" a reset signal (particularly if they
have hung) and the next reaction of attempting a 'hard reset' by
power-cycling the machine using the machine's power button may not in fact
be sufficient to actually power-cycle the PCI cards ! - in extremis, it
may be necessary to externally remove the mains supply and wait awhiles for
the smoothing capacitors to discharge .....

Dave M


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Re: Wavelet-compressed HRV data

Ian S Deans <ian@...>
 

Further to my previous mail, I have now tried saving channel 12 with a jpg
setting of 100 and that has appeared to get rid of any artefacts. However
the file size has increased from just over 8mb to over 22mb. I then saved
channel 12 on the next cycle as png and the file size was also approx. 22mb.
Correct me if I am wrong, but it would seem to me that there is no benefit
in using jpg 100, better with the lossless png.

Ian.


Re: Wavelet-compressed HRV data

Ian S Deans <ian@...>
 

Sorry about the "typo" in my previous mail. Should have been "exceeded my
best expectations"

Ian.


Re: Wavelet-compressed HRV data

Ian S Deans <ian@...>
 

Guy ( and David ) thanks for your reply.

The only reason I try to keep HRV image size reasonable is that I do use
GSS4 quite a lot when everything else is still running. Although my Athlon
1200 with 768mb ram has succeeded my best expectations, it is being
seriously pushed. I will try a jpg setting of 100 ( when MSG starts up again
!! ) although I suspect at that level the size of file will be close to png
anyway.

Thanks again

Regards
Ian.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Guy Martin" <agm@...>
To: <MSG-1@...>
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 8:18 AM
Subject: Re: [MSG-1] Wavelet-compressed HRV data


Hi Ian,

I'm saving them as jpg with a setting of 100. Saving does now take longer
but the images are now excellent. I'm using an Athlon 1200 with 512Gb and
the processor spends time at 100% so an upgrade is planned in the future as
it is my main working machine. I'm not concerned about image size as I only
archive interesting features and will copy them to CD.

Cheers, Guy


Re: Wavelet-compressed HRV data

Guy Martin <agm@...>
 

Hi Ian,

I'm saving them as jpg with a setting of 100. Saving does now take longer but the images are now excellent. I'm using an Athlon 1200 with 512Gb and the processor spends time at 100% so an upgrade is planned in the future as it is my main working machine. I'm not concerned about image size as I only archive interesting features and will copy them to CD.

Cheers, Guy

----- Original Message -----
From: Ian S Deans
To: MSG-1@...
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 9:10 PM
Subject: Re: [MSG-1] Wavelet-compressed HRV data


Guy,

Are you saving the HRV images as png or jpg. If jpg what setting are you
using. I have increased the jpg setting to 90, but I am still getting
artefacts, although slight improvement. Most noticeable as you say as the
terminator approaches. I am running everything on one Athlon 1200
extremely successfully, but am endeavouring to keep HRV image size
to a reasonable level without too much artefacts/pixellation.


Ian.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Guy Martin" <agm@...>
To: <MSG-1@...>
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 10:37 AM
Subject: Re: [MSG-1] Wavelet-compressed HRV data


> It has certainly improved picture quality. Animating the terminator now
shows a smooth transition to black with no artifacts or pixellation. The
system appears to cope just as well.
>



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Re: Wavelet-compressed HRV data

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

--- In MSG-1@..., "Ian S Deans" <ian@i...> wrote:
Guy,

Are you saving the HRV images as png or jpg. If jpg what setting
are you using. I have increased the jpg setting to 90, but I am
still getting artefacts, although slight improvement. Most
noticeable as you say as the terminator approaches. I am running
everything on one Athlon 1200 extremely successfully, but am
endeavouring to keep HRV image size to a reasonable level without
too much artefacts/pixellation.


Ian.
That's a good point, Ian. I have increased the default JPEG save
level from 82 to 86, but I believe that Arne van Belle wants to
update some tests on the save level setting. It will be interesting
to see his new results. To convert the 10-bit data to an 8-bit
display format compromises are required, although I believe that my
default settings of min:51, max:1023 and gamma:140 (i.e. 1.40) are
close to the optimum. Of course, you can play with the settings to
suit your needs. The GMS (GOES-9) images are set (at source) to a
gamma of 2, and look rather washed out to me....

For my own comparison tests, I saved in PNG and not JPEG format.

Cheers,
David


Re: Help for MSG1 software configuration !!!

Guy Martin <agm@...>
 

We have had problems at work with McAfee, machines slowing down mainly, which could affect tellique I guess, we now use Sophos anti virus with no problems, even the auto update works.

Cheers, Guy

----- Original Message -----
From: f5hcc
To: MSG-1@...
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 4:40 PM
Subject: [MSG-1] Re: Help for MSG1 software configuration !!!


Hello David.
I think it is a great idea !
In fact, to solve my problems, I took a blank 20 GB disk, I
installed only Win XP, Technisat PCI-card driver, Tellique software
and of course MSG Data Manager, and... it works fine !
I think my problems came from MacAfee software (Viruscan and
firewall),
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Re: Wavelet-compressed HRV data

Ian S Deans <ian@...>
 

Guy,

Are you saving the HRV images as png or jpg. If jpg what setting are you
using. I have increased the jpg setting to 90, but I am still getting
artefacts, although slight improvement. Most noticeable as you say as the
terminator approaches. I am running everything on one Athlon 1200
extremely successfully, but am endeavouring to keep HRV image size
to a reasonable level without too much artefacts/pixellation.


Ian.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Guy Martin" <agm@...>
To: <MSG-1@...>
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 10:37 AM
Subject: Re: [MSG-1] Wavelet-compressed HRV data


It has certainly improved picture quality. Animating the terminator now
shows a smooth transition to black with no artifacts or pixellation. The
system appears to cope just as well.


HRV compression changes - have you found any problems?

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

Folks,

As you will have seen, EUMETSAT have continued with the wavelet-
compressed HRV (channel 12) data over the weekend, and will be
running with it tomorrow. I was wondering if anyone had seen any
problems as a result - if you have been looking at the raw segment
files you will have seen that they are bigger, and they may take
longer to process.

So if you have seen any problems which started with the 13:00 repeat
cycle on Wednesday October 29th, and are still continuing, perhaps
you would be good enough to report any details here.

Thanks,
David


Re: Help for MSG1 software configuration !!!

f5hcc <f5hcc@...>
 

Hello David.
I think it is a great idea !
In fact, to solve my problems, I took a blank 20 GB disk, I
installed only Win XP, Technisat PCI-card driver, Tellique software
and of course MSG Data Manager, and... it works fine !
I think my problems came from MacAfee software (Viruscan and
firewall), because when the PC was powered-on, MSG receiving was OK
as long as MacAfee softwares where not loaded and running (it tooks
around 1 minute after Win XP is running and before Viruscan is
loaded, and during that short time, receiving is OK).
So, now, I have a disk labelled "METEOSAT" when I want to receive
MSG-1 and an other one labelled "XP" for regular use of the machine
(I use drawers for he disks).
On a PIII-1GHz, I have Tellique software AND MSG-DM both running
without problems.
Cheers.
Fabrice, F5HCC.


Re: Missing Segments

Peter Benney <tugboat@...>
 

Just to let you knwo we are thinking about you, for yesterday (Nov
01) I got no missing segments at all. If you (or anyone else) got
any missing segments, then the cause is something local in the
installation or path to the satellite.
David,

I had missing segments yesterday between 0000 and 1200 but none missing between 1215 and Midnight. Today I have missing segments 0300, 0330, 0345 and 0700 cycles. TheTellique software showed a red icon at 0947 with bad segment loss on the 0930 cycle and 0945 cycle missing after a reboot. Present weather Wind SSE 15 kts with heavy rain (8.0 mm/hr)

You might also want to check
the Tellique log files around the times of the missing segments in
case that shows up anything.
I note a series of "Lost Mesages" and " file ended/interrupted"

No changes have been made to the installation prior to the onset of the missing segments.
It will be interesting to see if this afternoons reception is good. I will soon be able to use my 1m patio mounted dish now the trees had shed their leaves. The 88cm motorised dish is pole mounted just above the roof gutter and close to the attached property. About 400m west of the dish is a water tower bristling with microwave links, a GSM phone cell and PSB UHF aerials. The dish is screened from this by the roof line. Satellite TV reception using this dish is very good even channels on the Sirius Nordic beam.

http://www.polarorbiter.co.uk/Graphics/Pict0019.JPG

Peter


Re: Wavelet-compressed HRV data

Guy Martin <agm@...>
 

It has certainly improved picture quality. Animating the terminator now shows a smooth transition to black with no artifacts or pixellation. The system appears to cope just as well.

Regards, Guy

----- Original Message -----
From: David Taylor
To: MSG-1@...
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 9:05 AM
Subject: [MSG-1] Wavelet-compressed HRV data


I see we are still on wavelet-compressed HRV data. I wonder if this
will be a permanent change?
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Re: Eumet Cas Key

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

--- In MSG-1@..., "pa3aod" <harms@a...> wrote:
The Trail schedule tells me that in December eumetsat start with
the
Eumet Cas Key Unit (EKU) and you need such device.
But how can i get that USB-Key?
Receiving MSG-1 now perfect witha trail copy of David Taylors
DataManager.

Bert
Bert,

I believe that there is just one day in December and one in February
when the access control will be enabled, so that an eToken will be
required. I am sure that Eumetsat will contact all the trial
participants well in advance about purchasing an eToken before the
full access control starts. That is currently scheduled for March
next year:

<http://www.eumetsat.de/en/dps/dissemination/met-
8_dissemination_trial.html>

Sorry for any split in the URL

Cheers,
David


Eumet Cas Key

pa3aod <harms@...>
 

The Trail schedule tells me that in December eumetsat start with the
Eumet Cas Key Unit (EKU) and you need such device.
But how can i get that USB-Key?
Receiving MSG-1 now perfect witha trail copy of David Taylors
DataManager.

Bert


Wavelet-compressed HRV data

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

I see we are still on wavelet-compressed HRV data. I wonder if this
will be a permanent change? The larger file size shows up well on
the bandwidth graphs - look at the increase from last Wednesday
lunchtime! I haven't seen any ill effects here such as an increase
in missing segments, file sequence errors, or the PC simply failing
to cope with the greater data rate.

http://www.david-taylor.myby.co.uk/mrtg/hermes_dvb.html

I wonder if this would have been possible with direct dissemination,
rather than the greater data rates used on the DVB service?

Cheers,
David


Re: Missing Segments

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

--- In MSG-1@..., "Peter Benney" <tugboat@g...> wrote:
After a reboot at 1339 yesterday cycles from 1345 to 2345 were
received complete.
But today I have the following missing segments...........
[]
Peter
Just to let you knwo we are thinking about you, for yesterday (Nov
01) I got no missing segments at all. If you (or anyone else) got
any missing segments, then the cause is something local in the
installation or path to the satellite. You might also want to check
the Tellique log files around the times of the missing segments in
case that shows up anything.

Cheers,
David