Date   

Re: Missing segments

Ian S Deans <ian@...>
 

David,

Your dish size is more than adequate. For normal TV use the recommended size
for Hotbird for most of Scotland is 70cm and that should not be any
different for data. What concerns me more about your system is the fact the
strong winds are obviously seriously affecting your dish. If this was put up
professionally David get them back out. In this modern day and age dishes
attached to walls buildings etc. should not have so much movement that
serious signal loss occurs.

Regards
Ian.

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Taylor" <david-taylor@...>
To: <MSG-1@...>
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 8:46 AM
Subject: [MSG-1] Re:Missing segments


--- In MSG-1@..., John Parkins <kvp@b...> wrote:
Hello David,

How bigger dish are you using at the moment David?
88cm - as supplied by TimeStep. My location is Edinburgh. Signal
quality is normally 60^ - 70%, SNR 9.3 to 10.7dB.

Cheers,
David


Re: Problem with Geosatsignal when creating HRV Animation in High Resolution

Douglas Deans <douglas@...>
 

----- Original Message -----
From: "Maik Dobbermann" <maik.dobbermann@...>
To: <MSG-1@...>
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 8:54 AM
Subject: AW: [MSG-1] Problem with Geosatsignal when creating HRV Animation
in High Resolution


Douglas,
thanks for your options. i use equal ones, but with coordinates of germany
of course ;)
Do you use non-scaled pngs? or are they scaled down by x - factor?

Not 100% sure what you mean Maik, but they are used exactly 'as saved' from
MSG DM.
For HRV, to save process time, I normally use the HRV 12n.
Typically (about midday) the file is about 6MB whereas my full 12 channel
file size is about 22Mb.

Regards
Douglas.


Re: Problem with Geosatsignal when creating HRV Animation in High Resolution

Maik Dobbermann <maik.dobbermann@...>
 

Douglas,
thanks for your options. i use equal ones, but with coordinates of germany
of course ;)

Do you use non-scaled pngs? or are they scaled down by x - factor?


-----Ursprรผngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Douglas Deans [mailto:douglas@...]
Gesendet: Dienstag, 4. November 2003 18:11
An: MSG-1
Betreff: Re: [MSG-1] Problem with Geosatsignal when creating HRV Animation
in High Resolution

----- Original Message -----
From: "Maik Dobbermann" <maik.dobbermann@...>
To: <MSG-1@...>
Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 9:41 AM
Subject: [MSG-1] Problem with Geosatsignal when creating HRV Animation in
High Resolution


> Hi David,
>
> i am trying to create various animation of germany for example in
> Geosatsignal (ver. 4.0.4.385) with HRV Images as PNGs (those new ones,
> Waveletcompressed).
>
> I use remapping, with zooming and so on and a resolution of the target
> picture about 768x576.
>
> When i try to animate, or even sometimes just try to make one picture,
> Geosatsignal just quits, with no warning message or else.
> In this computer i have about 1.2 GB RAM. So i dont know if thats an
issue?
>
> I would really like to go up with the resolution, but cannot.
>
> Could this be a problem with Geosatsignal? Or do i need more RAM?
>
> Thanks for your answer in advance.
>
> Regards,
> Maik Dobbermann

Hello Maik

I run a close-up orthographically corrected colour animation of the UK
most
days using the HRV 12n image.
I have a 2000 XP with 1 Gb of RAM. The animation is made up whilst MSG DM
is running (Receive is on another computer). At the moment I am doing it
with PNG saved images without any problem.
I am using the latest beta version of GSS4 ie V4.0.4.408 although I have
used earlier versions without any problems.
In my case the basic settings I use are :-

False colour :- normal
Brightness :- H.E.
Crispen :- more
Remapping :- enabled
Remapped Image Size :- 1280 x 960
meridian :- -4 (minus 4)
parallel :- 54
span :- 10

Hope that helps.

Regards
Douglas.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Missing segments

David J Taylor GM8ARV ๐Ÿด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ณ๓ ฃ๓ ด๓ ฟ ๐Ÿ‡ช๐Ÿ‡บ
 

--- In MSG-1@..., John Parkins <kvp@b...> wrote:
Hello David,

How bigger dish are you using at the moment David?
88cm - as supplied by TimeStep. My location is Edinburgh. Signal
quality is normally 60^ - 70%, SNR 9.3 to 10.7dB.

Cheers,
David


Re: Missing segments

John Parkins <kvp@...>
 

Hello David,

How bigger dish are you using at the moment David?


Wednesday, November 5, 2003, 8:33:32 AM, you wrote:



DT> I am wondering if a bigger dish might be a good idea, or if it would
DT> be even more likely to become mis-aligned and therefore produce even
DT> more missing segments!

DT> Cheers,
DT> David


--
Best regards,
John mailto:kvp@...


Re: Missing segments

David J Taylor GM8ARV ๐Ÿด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ณ๓ ฃ๓ ด๓ ฟ ๐Ÿ‡ช๐Ÿ‡บ
 

--- In MSG-1@..., "Guy Martin" <agm@t...> wrote:
Davids,

Just a thought, is it worth trying another DVB card, they are
fairly cheap, and some have already proved to be 'iffy' in terms of
overheating, it is running hot ?, and you have more or less proved
that its not the OS or wind.

Cheers, Guy
Thanks, Guy. Yes, I already have that in hand. I hope to try a
different card, in a different PC, with a different version of the
OS!

Today it is quite windy, and I am seeing short bursts of higher BER,
and then Uncorrected Blocks, which can be roughly correlated with
the noise of the wind outside. Even an occasional dip of signal
quality into the yellow. So under those circumstances missing
segments are understandable, if not desirable.

At other times, though, like a few other people, I seem to get a day
of missing segments with no apparent explanation.

I am wondering if a bigger dish might be a good idea, or if it would
be even more likely to become mis-aligned and therefore produce even
more missing segments!

Cheers,
David


Re: Missing segments

Guy Martin <agm@...>
 

Davids,

Just a thought, is it worth trying another DVB card, they are fairly cheap, and some have already proved to be 'iffy' in terms of overheating, it is running hot ?, and you have more or less proved that its not the OS or wind.

Cheers, Guy

----- Original Message -----
From: David Taylor
To: MSG-1@...
Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 8:16 PM
Subject: [MSG-1] Re:Missing segments


--- In MSG-1@..., "davidstrickland2003" <David@s...>
wrote:
> So from ch1-11 I lost segs. 1234 and
> from ch.12 1-11. At 1515 I lost seg 8 from ch 1,3,4,5,9; at 1545 I
> lost seg 6 from ch 1,3,4,5,9 and at 1815 I lost seg 7 from ch
> 1,3,4,5,9. All other images inbetween these are 100% ok. Note that
>
My kit is still playing up in spite of repeated reboots etc. If it
was like this on day one, it would have been sent straight back to
the supplier!

Cheers,
David


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Re: MSG Trial Update.

a_van_belle
 

--- In MSG-1@..., "Douglas Deans" <douglas@d...> wrote:
29 October --------24hr HRV lossless WaveLet compression test - as
the test
has proven successful, lossless WaveLet compression will continue
for the
foreseeable future.
Many thanks to Eumetsat for this drastic improvement and to David for
the flexibility that was build in MDM to handle these different
formats without having to update the program !

Does also show that Wavelett Transform compression does a remarkable
job and this success will most likely make it more popular in other
imaging systems/programs.

Greetings,
Arne van Belle


MSG Trial Update.

Douglas Deans <douglas@...>
 

The Eumetsat MSG-1 commissioning page on their web site has been updated
today again.
One point of interest I noted in the schedule is pasted below. This is
excellent news. The following courtesy of Eumetsat.

Regards
Douglas.


29 October --------24hr HRV lossless WaveLet compression test - as the test
has proven successful, lossless WaveLet compression will continue for the
foreseeable future.


Re: Missing segments

David J Taylor GM8ARV ๐Ÿด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ณ๓ ฃ๓ ด๓ ฟ ๐Ÿ‡ช๐Ÿ‡บ
 

--- In MSG-1@..., "davidstrickland2003" <David@s...>
wrote:
David,
I have been away for a few days. Today I powered up my 2 PC MSG
system when I arrived home early this afternoon. The 1400 missing
segments are, I believe understandable as I must have just caught
the
middle of that transmission. So from ch1-11 I lost segs. 1234 and
from ch.12 1-11. At 1515 I lost seg 8 from ch 1,3,4,5,9; at 1545 I
lost seg 6 from ch 1,3,4,5,9 and at 1815 I lost seg 7 from ch
1,3,4,5,9. All other images inbetween these are 100% ok. Note that
the losses effect the same channels!! I am sure my hardware does
not
know about channels and time and although it is a little rainy it
would be extremely improbable that it would cause this effect. As
the
machines have just been restarted any previous state should have
been
lost. The patterns above shout software, not hardware but it is
probably within the TEllique software so would be hard for me to
trouble shoot - no code!! Question - any ideas how I could go
about
troubleshooting. If I had two front end machines I could start
them
at different times and compare the raw files collected but I do
not.
Any ideas?

Regards David S.
David,

I believe the fact that the same channels are affected is because
the files are transmitted in groups. (I am guessing this from the
entries in the Tellique log file). I also see that if I get a loss,
frequently it is not a single segment, but a set of segments from
different channels. So there is a single point of failure for
multiple segments (could someone from Eumetsat please confirm this?).

I hope soon to have a dual-receiver system (for a short while at
least) so that I can see if such failures do occur in common. Other
than that, I am really stuck to explain this.

My kit is still playing up in spite of repeated reboots etc. If it
was like this on day one, it would have been sent straight back to
the supplier!

Cheers,
David


Re: missing segments / PC resets

David J Taylor GM8ARV ๐Ÿด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ณ๓ ฃ๓ ด๓ ฟ ๐Ÿ‡ช๐Ÿ‡บ
 

You are lucky, then Peter. Since about 0215 this morning I am
missing about one segment in ten! The reboot had no effect. It
is
a little windier today, so perhaps it is the wind direction that
is
critical? Having said that, there are no "Uncorrected Blocks" on
the Setup4PC display which has been running continuously since
this
morning.
Well, my problem just got worse and worse. Yes, there was some
wind, but the errors kept on happening. I tried a full mains-off
reboot, and the errors were still there, uncorrected blocks and
all. I completely lost touch with any data about an hour ago, with
normal quality and SNR values, but the the BER stuck (it seemed) at
the very high value of 1.2E-2!

So I tried a "soft" reboot, and now all is sweetness and light!
It's still windy. I put it down to a consumer-grade DVB card
perhaps loosing lock, but I think that's unfair without better
evidence.

Cheers,
David


Re: Missing segments

davidstrickland2003 <David@...>
 

David,
I have been away for a few days. Today I powered up my 2 PC MSG
system when I arrived home early this afternoon. The 1400 missing
segments are, I believe understandable as I must have just caught the
middle of that transmission. So from ch1-11 I lost segs. 1234 and
from ch.12 1-11. At 1515 I lost seg 8 from ch 1,3,4,5,9; at 1545 I
lost seg 6 from ch 1,3,4,5,9 and at 1815 I lost seg 7 from ch
1,3,4,5,9. All other images inbetween these are 100% ok. Note that
the losses effect the same channels!! I am sure my hardware does not
know about channels and time and although it is a little rainy it
would be extremely improbable that it would cause this effect. As the
machines have just been restarted any previous state should have been
lost. The patterns above shout software, not hardware but it is
probably within the TEllique software so would be hard for me to
trouble shoot - no code!! Question - any ideas how I could go about
troubleshooting. If I had two front end machines I could start them
at different times and compare the raw files collected but I do not.
Any ideas?

Regards David S.


Re: Problem with Geosatsignal when creating HRV Animation in High Resolution

Douglas Deans <douglas@...>
 

----- Original Message -----
From: "Maik Dobbermann" <maik.dobbermann@...>
To: <MSG-1@...>
Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 9:41 AM
Subject: [MSG-1] Problem with Geosatsignal when creating HRV Animation in
High Resolution


Hi David,

i am trying to create various animation of germany for example in
Geosatsignal (ver. 4.0.4.385) with HRV Images as PNGs (those new ones,
Waveletcompressed).

I use remapping, with zooming and so on and a resolution of the target
picture about 768x576.

When i try to animate, or even sometimes just try to make one picture,
Geosatsignal just quits, with no warning message or else.
In this computer i have about 1.2 GB RAM. So i dont know if thats an
issue?

I would really like to go up with the resolution, but cannot.

Could this be a problem with Geosatsignal? Or do i need more RAM?

Thanks for your answer in advance.

Regards,
Maik Dobbermann
Hello Maik

I run a close-up orthographically corrected colour animation of the UK most
days using the HRV 12n image.
I have a 2000 XP with 1 Gb of RAM. The animation is made up whilst MSG DM
is running (Receive is on another computer). At the moment I am doing it
with PNG saved images without any problem.
I am using the latest beta version of GSS4 ie V4.0.4.408 although I have
used earlier versions without any problems.
In my case the basic settings I use are :-

False colour :- normal
Brightness :- H.E.
Crispen :- more
Remapping :- enabled
Remapped Image Size :- 1280 x 960
meridian :- -4 (minus 4)
parallel :- 54
span :- 10

Hope that helps.

Regards
Douglas.


Re: Problem with Geosatsignal when creating HRV Animation in High Resolution

David J Taylor GM8ARV ๐Ÿด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ณ๓ ฃ๓ ด๓ ฟ ๐Ÿ‡ช๐Ÿ‡บ
 

i am trying to create various animation of germany for example in
Geosatsignal (ver. 4.0.4.385) with HRV Images as PNGs (those new
ones,
Waveletcompressed).

I use remapping, with zooming and so on and a resolution of the
target
picture about 768x576.

When i try to animate, or even sometimes just try to make one
picture,
Geosatsignal just quits, with no warning message or else.
In this computer i have about 1.2 GB RAM. So i dont know if thats
an issue?

I would really like to go up with the resolution, but cannot.

Could this be a problem with Geosatsignal? Or do i need more RAM?
[]
Maik,

I suspect this would be more appropriate in the SatSignal group, but
to try and answer:

- I've never used HRV saved as PNG files for animations within
GeoSatSignal

- I believe people do use the HRV channel, though.

- If I was doing this, I would use the 12n image, i.e. the smaller
northern part of the full HRV image.

- making a false-colour image will use three times the memory of the
monochrome image, so reducing the size of the source image is
critically important.

- I only have 1GB of memory, but have made full resolution HRV false-
colour images before.

- running MSG Data Manager on the same machine will also use up
quite a large amount of memory. Can you perhaps try on another PC?

There is probably a more recent beta than 4.0.4.385 available, but I
don't know if that will help your problem.

Cheers,
David


Re: missing segments / PC resets

David J Taylor GM8ARV ๐Ÿด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ณ๓ ฃ๓ ด๓ ฟ ๐Ÿ‡ช๐Ÿ‡บ
 

--- In MSG-1@..., "Guy Martin" <agm@t...> wrote:
Win2K workstations get 'grumpy' if left on for long periods and I
and many others I know re-boot servers weekly.

From: Roger Mawhinney
[]
Memory fragmentation is a problem for machines which are left on
for a long period of time.

Roger, Guy, I would agree with you both that in some circumstances
frequent reboots may be required. However:

- this PC has run for weeks without requiring a reboot

- within 4 days of a reboot, this missing segments problem developed

- rebooting the PC this morning has resulted in no change with the
missing segments problem.

so I can't see it being an inherent software problem. Having said
that, I notice that there is a Web server running on that PC, and I
thought I had stopped this service previously. So I will now
permanently stop that service and reboot again.....

Cheers,
David


Re: missing segments / PC resets

David J Taylor GM8ARV ๐Ÿด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ณ๓ ฃ๓ ด๓ ฟ ๐Ÿ‡ช๐Ÿ‡บ
 

David,

I can report since 2/11 1500z only one missing segment yesterdays
0300 Ch7 Seg 6. After two weeks of bad segment loss the system has
settled down. The last reboot of the RX PC was on 2/11at 0945z but
not a full mains off.
You are lucky, then Peter. Since about 0215 this morning I am
missing about one segment in ten! The reboot had no effect. It is
a little windier today, so perhaps it is the wind direction that is
critical? Having said that, there are no "Uncorrected Blocks" on
the Setup4PC display which has been running continuously since this
morning.

Does your Tellique log report the same Announcement Channel "Lost
Messages" or " file ended/interrupted" messages that I had.

Peter
No "Lost Messages" but lots of "ended/interrupted" ones......
Perhaps the V2.3.1 client simply doesn't report "Lost" messages any
more! I have no idea what causes this - I wish I did.

Cheers,
David


Re: missing segments / PC resets

Guy Martin <agm@...>
 

Win2K workstations get 'grumpy' if left on for long periods and I and many others I know re-boot servers weekly. I have one server running a web based application that needs re-booting nightly. It seems to be a memory leak that causes that particular problem. Whether its the app not releasing memory or the kernel not realising it has been released I don't know. From postings to this group it looks as though something similar is happening here. I have never experienced this problem perhaps because the longest I have left the machines on is about 10 hours. I use Win2K but the code in XP is pretty much the same.

Cheers, Guy

----- Original Message -----
From: Roger Mawhinney
To: MSG-1@...
Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 1:16 PM
Subject: RE: [MSG-1] Re: missing segments / PC resets


Memory fragmentation is a problem for machines which are left on for a long
period of time. I can remember having to reboot a server every week, simply
to keep performance acceptable. I suspect that it can't be avoided any
more than disk fragmentation but will be dependent on how programs allocate
and release memory. It will of course be cleared on re-boot.
Regards,
Roger

|
|-----Original Message-----
|From: Douglas Deans [mailto:douglas@...]
|Sent: 04 November 2003 09:33
|To: MSG-1
|
|
|----- Original Message -----
|From: "David Taylor" <david-taylor@...>
|To: <MSG-1@...>
|Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 9:12 AM
|Subject: [MSG-1] Re: missing segments / PC resets
|
|
|> Just to let you know that I seem to have a lot of unexplained
|> missing segments overnight after a number of really good days, so
|> I've also taken the full mains-off reset route this morning.....
|>
|> I wonder if it happens when Tellique's memory allocation gets too
|> high?
|>
|> Cheers,
|> David
|
|From memory (excuse the pun) it seems to happen to those who keep their
|computers on permanently or at least for long periods at a time.
|As you know I switch off at night and back on early morning
|and have never
|experienced this.
|Would that not further support your suggestion.
|
|Regards
|Douglas.
|
|
|
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|
|
|
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|
|
|



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Re: missing segments / PC resets

Roger Mawhinney <roger@...>
 

Memory fragmentation is a problem for machines which are left on for a long
period of time. I can remember having to reboot a server every week, simply
to keep performance acceptable. I suspect that it can't be avoided any
more than disk fragmentation but will be dependent on how programs allocate
and release memory. It will of course be cleared on re-boot.
Regards,
Roger

|

|-----Original Message-----
|From: Douglas Deans [mailto:douglas@...]
|Sent: 04 November 2003 09:33
|To: MSG-1
|
|
|----- Original Message -----
|From: "David Taylor" <david-taylor@...>
|To: <MSG-1@...>
|Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 9:12 AM
|Subject: [MSG-1] Re: missing segments / PC resets
|
|
|> Just to let you know that I seem to have a lot of unexplained
|> missing segments overnight after a number of really good days, so
|> I've also taken the full mains-off reset route this morning.....
|>
|> I wonder if it happens when Tellique's memory allocation gets too
|> high?
|>
|> Cheers,
|> David
|
|From memory (excuse the pun) it seems to happen to those who keep their
|computers on permanently or at least for long periods at a time.
|As you know I switch off at night and back on early morning
|and have never
|experienced this.
|Would that not further support your suggestion.
|
|Regards
|Douglas.
|
|
|
|------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
|---------------------~-->
|Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark
|Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the
|US & Canada.
|http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
|http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/RLYolB/TM
|---------------------------------------------------------------
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|


Re: missing segments / PC resets

Peter Benney <tugboat@...>
 

Just to let you know that I seem to have a lot of unexplained
missing segments overnight after a number of really good days, so
I've also taken the full mains-off reset route this morning.....

I wonder if it happens when Tellique's memory allocation gets too
high?
David,

I can report since 2/11 1500z only one missing segment yesterdays 0300 Ch7 Seg 6. After two weeks of bad segment loss the system has settled down. The last reboot of the RX PC was on 2/11at 0945z but not a full mains off.

Does your Tellique log report the same Announcement Channel "Lost Messages" or " file ended/interrupted" messages that I had.

Peter


Problem with Geosatsignal when creating HRV Animation in High Resolution

Maik Dobbermann <maik.dobbermann@...>
 

Hi David,

i am trying to create various animation of germany for example in
Geosatsignal (ver. 4.0.4.385) with HRV Images as PNGs (those new ones,
Waveletcompressed).

I use remapping, with zooming and so on and a resolution of the target
picture about 768x576.

When i try to animate, or even sometimes just try to make one picture,
Geosatsignal just quits, with no warning message or else.
In this computer i have about 1.2 GB RAM. So i dont know if thats an issue?

I would really like to go up with the resolution, but cannot.

Could this be a problem with Geosatsignal? Or do i need more RAM?

Thanks for your answer in advance.

Regards,
Maik Dobbermann